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Audio: Green Shoots of US Great Depression
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Audio: Green Shoots of US Great Depression Reply with quote

Quote:

The Next Level Show - 22nd August, 2009

LISTEN:
Mp3 Audio
http://BreakForNews.com/audio/BeautifulTruth090822.mp3
Click to Play or Right-Click to 'Save As' and Download.

See Also:
Quote:


The Next Level Show - 7th October, 2008
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4711

See Also:
Quote:


The Next Level Show - 30th September, 2008
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4664


Quote:
REFERENCES:


Quote:
1929 versus 2008



SOURCE: http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/3421


Federal Reserve SECRETLY
Buying Treasuries At Auctions

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/nielson081109.html

Corporate Insider Selling Is An
Extremely Bearish 17 Times Normal

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/bronson/2009/0819.html

The Writing Is On The Wall
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/baltin081609.html

D A T A
==========================================
The Federal Reserve cutting interest rates from 5.25-0.25% (Sept '07-today )
The Bear Stearns deal/ Fed taking on $30 billion in junk mortgages (March '08 )
The Fed opens up various lending windows to investment banks (March '08 )
The SEC proposes banning short-selling on financial stocks (July '08 )
Hank Paulson gets a blank check for Fannie/Freddie but promises not to use it (July '08 )
Hank Paulson uses the blank check with Fannie/ Freddie spending $400 billion in the process (Sept '08 ).
The Fed takes over insurance company AIG (Sept '08 ) for $85 billion.
The Fed doles out $25 billion for the auto makers (Sept '08 )
The Feds kick off the $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) with the Government taking stakes in private banks (Oct '08 )
The Fed offers to buy commercial paper (non-bank debt) from non-financial firms (Oct '08 )
The Fed offers $540 billion to backstop money market funds (Oct '08 )
The Feds agree to back up to $280 billion of Citigroup's liabilities (Oct '08 ).
$40 billion more to AIG (Nov '08 )
Feds agree to back up $140 billion of Bank of America's liabilities (Jan '09 )
Obama's $787 Billion Stimulus (Jan '09 )
Cash for Clunks I & II (July-August '09 )

Warren Buffet:

"Last fall, our financial system stood on the brink of a collapse that threatened a depression. The crisis required our government to display wisdom, courage and decisiveness. Fortunately, the Federal Reserve and key economic officials in both the Bush and Obama administrations responded more than ably to the need.

They made mistakes, of course. How could it have been otherwise when supposedly indestructible pillars of our economic structure were tumbling all around them? A meltdown, though, was avoided, with a gusher of federal money playing an essential role in the rescue.

The United States economy is now out of the emergency room and appears to be on a slow path to recovery."


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/opinion/19buffett.html?_r=1&em


T A R P
=========================================

It’s recently been reported there are 294 U.S. banks with proportions of troubled assets at 90% or higher. This is despite the fact that the Troubled Asset Relief Program has been in effect since late 2008, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars. With that mind, it’s easy to imagine such assets remaining on bank balance sheets forever. OK, maybe "forever" is a stretch, but they sure aren’t going anywhere any time soon. In fact, our investment advisers foresee these assets troubling bank balance sheets for another five to 10 years.

What does that time frame mean for you? With uncertainty surrounding the banking sector and a lengthy run needed to cure the sick banks, it means to either stay away or approach with caution.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/19/troubled-assets-banking-intelligent-investing-bankruptcy.html


Notice the changes as of 4/27 of this year.

Home equity lines are now worth (for collateral purposes) half of their face value. Consumer loans, 60% (credit cards, student loans, etc.) Commercial Real Estate, 65% (!!!) and normal commercial and agricultural (C&I) loans 65%.

Maybe someone can explain to this guy why our regulators allow banks to carry these things on their balnace sheets at values that are in fact above the previous "lendable value" when our very own

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/2009/08/19.html


S T I M U L U S
=========================================

the US Federal Reserve said it will end its "money-printing" operations by the end of October.

After a two-day meeting, the Fed said it would "gradually slow" purchases of US government bonds (Treasuries), which has the effect of adding money to the banking system and, it is hoped, the economy.


However, the reality is that growth in the money supply never has an evenly-distributed effect on the economy; rather, the money enters the economy at specific points and therefore affects different parts of the economy in different ways at different times. The way inflation actually works is that the first receivers of the new money obtain a benefit, at the expense of everyone else, by getting to spend the money before it loses purchasing power. The first receivers of the new money tend to be the government, the banks, and the supporters and pet projects of politicians.

the damage done by injecting a lot of new money into the economy cannot be undone by subsequently removing money from the economy.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/saville081109.html


World industrial production continues to track closely the 1930s fall, with no clear signs of ‘green shoots’.
Eichengreen & O’Rourke
http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/3421

World Bank chief economist Justin Yifu Lin said capacity utilization is running at an historic low of 50pc-60pc. Companies will have to fire a lot of workers. This is where the danger lies, and why he fears that deflation is creeping up on us.

Trade data from Asia are flashing warning signals again. Korea's exports were down 28.3pc in May, reversing the April rebound. Malaysia has slipped to -26pc, and India has touched a new low of -33pc.

US freight data is getting worse, not better. The Association of American Railroads said traffic was down 22pc in the third week of May from a year earlier. Canadian freight was down 34pc.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/5461562


M A R K E T S
=========================================

If you look at what has been happening to average daily volumes for the most active ETFs, including everybody’s new favorite friend, the financials, the most consistent feature seems to be a growing lack of interest as prices work their way higher.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm 08.20.2009


Insiders normally sell about twice as many shares as they buy, since they receive shares of stock from their employers as part of their total compensation package and need to sell in order to get at the money. However, in the five weeks ending August 12 and reported today, August 14, by the WSJ’s Market Data Center, insiders sold a whopping $2.2 billion and purchased only $62.2 million in their companies for a huge sell-to-buy ratio of 36:1, or 17 times normal (table below).

Selling to buying in technology stocks was a huge 61:1, or 24 times normal. And remember that technology stocks lead the market, so the insider selling in that sector is an extraordinarily bearish indicator for the direction of the stock market.

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/bronson/2009/0819.html


It’s hard not to wonder whether those who might like to see the market send a message that all is well are concentrating their efforts during the times of the day when it might matter most.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm 08.20.2009


Huge banks, all trading equities (and commodities) parked $22 Billion of their money with Treasury at zero interest for the next two months?


This rally is mirroring the post-'29 Crash rally to perfection.
In fact, we just hit the "peak" in terms of both gains and days.






The relative strength index (RSI) is a metric used to measure the velocity and momentum of a given investment by comparing its upward and downward moves from close-to-close. If an investment is moving up strongly, its RSI is higher. Similarly, if an RSI is low, it means the investment is performing weakly.

Historically, RSI's of 70 or higher mean an investment is overbought while an RSI of 30 means an investment is oversold. In these situations the market is primed for a "revert to the mean" trade, meaning you could see a quick correction or turnaround rally as the market snaps back to a more reasonably RSI.

Well, have a look at the NASDAQ today.

As you can see, the NASDAQ recently hit an RSI of 75. This is the highest reading we've seen in nearly two years. In fact, the last time the NASDAQ had an RSI of 75 was October 10, 2007, right before stocks entered their first major leg down in the Financial Crisis, losing 55% in six months.

As soon as I noticed this, I called up Ron Coby, a brilliant portfolio manager based in Medford, Oregon. Ron's one of the smartest guys I know and when it comes to trading short-term moves, he's one of the best in the business. What he had to say completely blew me away.

Ron said, "Graham, you won't believe this, but I went back on the NASDAQ and made a note of every time it hit an RSI of 75. EVERY TIME, the market collapsed soon after. And I don't mean a "plain vanilla" correction, I mean a full blown CRASH."

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/summers081009.html



B O N D S & D O L L A R
=========================================

FALLING DOLLAR = GDP INCREASE (INFLATION)

From the USGovt TIC Reports. The messages are clear. Inflows of foreign funds are dwindling. In the case of USAgency Mortgage Bonds and USCorp Bonds, the nation is witnessing something unprecedented, the net outflow of funds. This is outright rejection. This chart exposes the isolation problem of the USDollar in the bond world, clearly the most important market beneath the currency market.

http://jsmineset.com/2009/08/19/the-countdown-to-the-implosion-of-the-dollar/

Tax receipts are on pace to drop 18% this year, the biggest
single-year decline since the Great Depression.

Commercial mortgage wrecking ball.

The $3.5 trillion commercial real estate market is eroding.
Defaults are doubling on loans for apartment buildings, office buildings, housing complexes, strip malls, hotels, hospitals. A staggering amount of loans must be rolled over this year into refinancing, or else go bust with liquidation to follow. Prices in commercial real estate have fallen about 39% from the peak in mid 2007, according to the MIT Center for Real Estate, with no signs of improvement or abatement.

$814 BILLION of commercial mortgage debt which is due to mature in the next two years – and no sources of funding.

About four times bigger than the sub-prime mortgage market,

FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair believes up to 500 more banks could fail, according to conversations between US senators and Bair from recent meetings. That story received little if any coverage. The real number is 1000 banks, from Bair's own conversations.



H O U S I N G
========================================
the latest quarterly National Delinquency Survey from the Mortgage Bankers Association contains grim news on the state of the mortgage market. According to the MBA, “the percentages of loans 90 days or more past due and loans in foreclosure both set new record highs, breaking records set last quarter.” The trade group added that the “combined percentage of loans in foreclosure and at least one payment past due was 13.16% on a non-seasonally adjusted basis, the highest ever recorded” -- and more than twice as high as the long-term median. So much for signs of life in the housing market.

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm 08.20.2009


First, sales are still 28% below their peak, so activity is still very subdued. Second, around 31% of sales are “forced” sales of foreclosed properties. Third, by holding at 9.4 the months’ supply of unsold homes remains above the level of around 7.5 that has historically been consistent with stable prices. In other words, the inventory overhang needs to be reduced significantly further before prices can start rising on a sustained basis. – Paul Dales, Capital Economics

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/08/21/economists-react


By 2011, DBank predicts 89% of Option ARM borrowers will be underwater, up from 77% in 2009. That is correct, 77% of current Option ARM mortgages are stuck with negative equity, upside down. That is a recovery??? No! It is the source of further home price declines, to any analyst that features a brain stem. They expect the rate of underwater subprime borrowers to increase from 50% to 69%, and underwater Alt-A borrowers to increase from 49% to 66%.



C O N S U M E R
=========================================

U.S. jobless claims unexpectedly rise
Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:54am EDT

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE57J2XC20090820

Almost half a million people fell off the state unemployment insurance system in July, which was hailed as evidence of a recovery!!!!

Real monthly job losses still at least 1.5 million per month

The U.S. economy continues to shrink by at least 5% per quarter.

government expenditures now running 185 percent of receipts


Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure (CARD) Act to great fanfare -prohibiting an increase in interest rates if a customer is late paying a different company, disallowing most retroactive rate hikes, and banning fees if the bank neglects to credit a payment.

However, if you have revolving balances on your credit cards, this is no time to relax. The law does not take effect until February 2010, giving credit card issuers a window to jack up fees and interest rates. It also fails to set an upper limit on these charges at the federal level. As financial institutions can incorporate in states without legal limits, major credit issuers can continue to charge any rate they wish as long as they disclose it.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/barry081309.html


The first, major wake-up call that this empire of consumerism was collapsing occurred less than two months ago, with the bankruptcy of the U.S.'s second-largest shopping conglomerate, General Growth – along with at least 158 of the malls it owns (see “BANKRUPTCY for second-largest U.S. mall-owner”). By one estimate I have heard, the U.S. had as much as 50% excess capacity in its retail sector at the peak of the consumer “bubble”.



C O M M O D I T Y
=========================================

if you picture the world, and on top of that world is a bowl of money, as long as central banks continue to print paper and pour money into this bowl and it overflows, it’s going to go somewhere. Money is going to seek its own outlet and that outlet could be commodities.

Commodities like, coffee, sugar, cocoa, wheat, corn, are all showing extremely positive formation which indicate the probability that they are moving out from very long-term bear markets themselves. I tend to believe that the money that comes into the economy through the strategy of war economy spending and deficit spending and expansion of monetary aggregates, isn't going to find its way into general equities. As much as the probability suggests from historical precedent, I believe it will find its way into general commodities.

http://www.financialsense.com/transcriptions/2002/Sinclair.html



M A C R O D A T A
=========================================

§ 34 million Americans are on food stamps

§ 18% of incomes coming from an already broke government

§ Seven million people will run out of unemployment insurance by Christmas (add their families and you have 13 million folks becoming destitute)

§ Tax receipts are at their lowest levels since 1932

§ 32 states have budget problems ($121 billion in total deficits) and the Federal Government is running a $2 trillion deficit

§ Civil unrest growing: National Guard May Be Called to Alabama

§ Industrial capacity for May ’09 was 68%: an ALL TIME low (roughly 1/3 of our plants and production facilities are doing nothing at all).

§ Rail carload volume for 1H09 is down 19% from the already plunging level of 1H08.

§ Even after laying off people and cutting costs, Quarter over Quarter Corporate Revenues and Profits fell 17% and 33% respectively in 2Q09.

http://www.gainspainscapital.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=120



A N A L Y S I S
=========================================

Recovery… What Recovery?

The US has entered a New Normal… a new economic climate… and it is one dominated by:

§ Higher consumer savings

§ Lower consumer spending

§ Rising unemployment

§ Lower corporate profits

§ Increased Government spending/ transfer

§ Reduced private sector growth

§ Excess capacity

§ Reduced production

§ Excess bank reserves

§ Reduced lending

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/summers081909.html

The only concessions that the Chinese have made is that they are not dumping their holdings on the world's bond markets, but they and their Government surrogates are working overtime to unload their US $ holdings by buying up resources and resource based companies
--have already spent $157 Billion this year buying American Companies.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/baltin081609.html


T I M I N G I S S U E S
=============================================

August and into September. The FDIC is scheduled to release its Second Quarter Report that could reveal up to 1000 banks expected to croak, surely enough to exhaust their rescue fund by between 20-fold and 100-fold.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/willie081309.html

The USFed liberally uses its USDollar Swap Facility to enable strong bids by foreign central banks, except that they are highly likely coming from USFed accounts on foreign soil, or else from money lent by the USFed itself.

For China it is a race against the clock for how fast they can convert their $2 trillion in USDollar holdings into strategic assets, namely oil and gold. At today's deflated prices, putting together a really good billion dollar deal is a difficult thing to do. Putting together 2000 of them is impossible. Doing it before the dollar collapses? Not a Chinaman's chance. And they know it."

Warning after warning have come not to monetize, not to debauch the USDollar currency, not to permit skyrocketing deficits. Yet they continue, and worse, little if any reform or actual stimulus has occurred. Mainly what we witness is more channeled funds to the big banks, more coverage of credit derivative fires, and more announcements of bond support. See the $1.25 trillion support for Fannie Mae bonds, aka USAgency Mortgage Bonds.


S U M M A R Y
==============================================

With over $57 TRILLION in total public and private debt (see "A Tale of Two Economies: the U.S. versus China"), and an additional $70 to $90 TRILLION in unfunded liablilities, the U.S.'s relatively puny $11 trillion economy cannot possibly service the interest payments on all that debt (assuming that future lenders could even be found).

Yes, I'm aware that the U.S. pretends to have annual GDP of roughly $13 trillion per year. However, the same Chris Martenson pointed out in his "Crash Course" how $2 trillion per year of so-called "GDP" is nothing but statistical padding. It is "deemed GDP" for which no business transactions take place. Strip away that padding, and not only is actual GDP reduced to $11 trillion but the U.S.'s debt-to-GDP ratio immediately becomes 20% worse. Indeed, if the U.S. was to begin to report actual GDP, rather than yet another fantasy-number, it is virtually certain that it would have already lost the "AAA" credit-rating which it desperately needs to delay bankruptcy.

The Green Shoots a marketing ploy.
The Stress Tests a marketing ploy.
The Stimulus Plan a marketing ploy.

America has become more debt-dependent - - than ever before
with total debt of $57 trillion, or $186,717 per man, woman and child

In just the 1990s real debt increased more than two times
faster than growth of the total economy

In 1957 there was $1.86 in debt for each dollar of national income,
but today there is $4.99 of debt for each dollar of national income.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat-a.htm

DELEVERAGING BUT NOT DEFLATION.

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/hyperinflation


Crippling levels of debt, combined with gigantic, excess-inventories of numerous, U.S. asset classes means that these assets will continue to deflate – no matter how much money the U.S. government stuffs into Wall Street vaults. Thus, an asset “depression” will continue in the U.S.

Second, insane levels of money-supply growth (i.e. more new debt) in the U.S. and most of the rest of the world ensures that there will be a dramatic surge in prices of all assets in relatively scarce supply, meaning primarily commodities

http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=527

Speculators are buying over-priced, U.S. homes at foreclosure sales – duped into believing a “bottom” is near, thanks to incessant propaganda which fraudulently predicts this (again and again).

With more than one in ten U.S. mortgages (of all categories) already in default, the biggest wave of “adjustable-rate mortgage” re-sets does not begin until next year – and then will remain at that peak level for at least one full year.

Keep in mind that while the U.S. government, and their media-parrots originally tried to deceive people into believing this was a “subprime crisis”, the reality is that all categories of U.S. mortgages (including “prime”) are at the highest default rates in history.

And it is over the next two years that defaults are guaranteed to get really bad.

After that, the U.S. market will have to slowly chew-through the largest inventory of unsold homes in history – ANYWHERE! Currently, there are over 20 million empty homes in the U.S. Many of these homes have been severely vandalized (or even burned to the ground), but these “assets” sit on the balance sheets of U.S. banksters – at valuations far above what they could ever possibly hope to receive.

Millions of these homes will simply have to be bulldozed to the ground, because there will never be enough buyers for all of them.

So, after the U.S. housing collapse stops accelerating downward, some time around 2011, at that point the collapse will gradually slow down (over a period of several additional years). At that point, after the U.S. economy has lost over $30 TRILLION of “paper wealth”, and at least 30 MILLION jobs, the U.S. housing market will almost certainly remain depressed for several additional years.

In other words, buying a U.S. house today – after the market has already declined roughly 30% - would still be one of the worst investments in history.

http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=430


CHINA

http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=521

http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=56

HYPERINFLATION

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/hyperinflation

Rising U.S. interest rates signal “hyperinflationary depression”

IMF
Beyond the World Creditors’ Cartel

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They only function when open.


Last edited by Fintan on Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
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LelaBear



Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject: Eye of the Storm Reply with quote

Great show, Fintan, I feel all inspired again, been oppressed by the heat and flu, but the time for action is upon us and we gotta get our priorities straight!

Did you see this article yet, from John Galt's blog called The Eye of the Storm.
He's obviously not buying it either, and has noted much of the evidence you included in the show.
Gonna get interesting around here real soon! But it is a nice feeling to have 3 flats of healthy garden plants ready to go in the ground soon as the heat lets up! Might not be the big fix, but it's a starting place.

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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1512
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you fintan, for that great audio financial report on "the state of the globe." (state of the globe address, presented by none-other than our mr fintan dunne!! how cool is that? dunne for world poo-bah!! you got my vote.)

okay, enough horsing around. Very Happy

i like simplicity and math. i like tactless, blunt, direct streamlined logic. you are a competent man and you seek out many sources you sited here to assist in cutting through the confusing marketing bullshit of corpo-litical double-speak. thank you for that. most of us either just know something's wrong when things require myriads of tangled words and numbers to explain our problems. or we just keep relying on people in office to "save" our economy. AH-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!

thousand-page legislation... WTF? why, even a well-intentioned congressman can't possibly read through that AND make sense of it. have you read any 1000 page books lately in a few days and remembered all of it?

nice banks finish last... same exact scenario in the last "great depression." i recommend The Forgotten Man, which is extremely pro-laissez faire, but has some eye-openers in it, regardless. (i read everything, because i can. one remaining feature of our republic... yet.)

you mentioned several possible "happy endings" in another thread just recently. it was what? a false-flag type thing, national emergency or perhaps natural disaster or other, and maybe a decision to start a war. didn't FDR take us into WWII when all else failed? at least that changed the USA into a new super-power. (just a generalization.) i doubt we could even remotely have a war work in our favor at this point. we are already stretched...

a war would mean bringing the draft back. it would probably mean restructuring the military and getting rid of paid-militia corporations. besides, we likely won't fight a soldier-war ever again. so what could that spell? a bunch of game-playing teenagers behind consoles blowing the shit out of everything?

yikes.

another 9/11... i hope not, but y'know some bastards are desperate. this one could lead to the previously-stated paragraph. oh dear. how can we prevent that, folks?

some other disaster... fuck if i know. aren't we capable of controlling weather yet? i think that is one unfortunate strategy already in the works.

when i contemplate all the above, i rather hope we just get yet another miraculous bubble. don't you? i mean, where is all this global economic disaster going, really? what would a global currency do, should that be the ultimate outcome? that doesn't put all nations on any kind of "equal footing." what is its main purpose? (liberty, justice, equality, civil rights??? hahahaha... no way.)

and what is ultimately different about a royal elite with peasants and slaves versus equal, statist, socialized ownership with all its proud, productive bumble bees? somebody's gotta make the donuts for the king, just like somebody's gotta get the coffee for the line boss. you think castro takes the trash out himself?

lastly, speaking of math, the eureka moment you mentioned is the end result in the... tax receipt equation. reduced production means less tax collected. depressed sales means less tax collected. more unemployment means less tax collected. slow imports and exports mean less tax collected. drops in real property values means less tax collected.

and where is our govt getting the money to pay its bills again? i'm sorry?

if only we'd be allowed to have ingenuity save the day. all this could go away. and what is keeping everyone from staying home and ceasing all payments? no balls. we can get pretty cold and hungry after a week or so. the streets can get dangerous. the kids will have no clean pampers. and no electricity, no cell phone, empty gas tanks.

oh shit. the rich can hold out far longer. isn't that what they're betting on?

so what's the real answer? we have a little time. shall we return to the status quo of merry-go-round propaganda, another cool consumer dumb-down toy, and hopes for...

?? a new jesus coming to town? whoa! now that would be awesome. i am placing bets for a new jesus cult-of-personality emerging from the ashes.

red

ps - the world is probably not coming to an end tomorrow. but honestly, barring another huge bubble, a crazy stunt, or (hopefully not) another major WW, how can this ship change course?

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Alchemist



Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1
Location: land of the long white cloud

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: financial reality Reply with quote

great audio I for one have experienced the business end of this recession having lost a well paying job due to redundancy. you know theirs nothing like having no money coming in to make you suddenly realise what is really important in life suddenly many of the things you thought were so important become meaningless still knowledge is power right?
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3865

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alchemist

you are not alone. I jumped ship in 2005; I saw it coming yet, I am still clawing my way back to the black.

Shit, ain't it?

atm
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GaryGo



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Posts: 713

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Fintan

Ah stuff this!!!!!
We're all doomed.

Just when I was gonna come back in off the window sill!!
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atm



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a padded cell, that is not an option.

Bat atm Man
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James D



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great audio!

"Fuck you!" Dude! Laughing

So what should we do? Like, specific.

Take our money out the bank?
Buy real value goods? Resources?
Produce things of real value for a real local market?

??? Question

Any ideas?
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arkestra



Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 273
Location: The Forest.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James D.

Quote:
Great audio!

"Fuck you!" Dude!

So what should we do? Like, specific.




YEH Smile great audio. breath of fresh air even if it
bordered bravely on a bit of a righteous tone towards the end.

FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU INDEED! LOL!
Suppose it has to be said. Clear the air, the debilitating fear,
and the static inert stench.

But Fintan doesnt have the answers, he has his answer,
hs perspective. We have our own answers, our own responses,
our own ideas. Fintan is not a leader, Idont agree on everything he
says but to me its jus details. I cant be bothered nitpicking(timewasting)
i've done enough of that in my own life already LOL. Its the force of
my own expression
that counts, my own response.

Are we all jus a bunch of bedraggled Hamlets venting occasionally?
'TO BE OR NOT TO BE' This was his question. Whats mine?
Do I stagnate or individuate.
Do I berate or create

Its the end of ideology? Leadership? a dawning of the collectivity of creativity, a resilience to domination? a flowering of ideas forming a rich tapestry of consciousness, coexisting without beaurocracy and
its grey veined inane office cubicles infecting all of our cities like
a virus on its last legs, tired of itself, tired of its parasitic existence.

The pirate party movement symbolises for me the freedom of
expression, of creativity. The corporate entertainment industry is
fucked, they know it and they are DESPERATE

The homegrown food movement! everywhere right now there is
a burgeoning growth of non corporate veggies fruit herbs and medicine and peeps gettting out in the elements soaking up some well needed vitamin D. Im ready to get my fingers dirty.

Every moment more and more are turning away from the mainstream
media and the television prison. Sure they're lost in the QUAGMIRE of the
net now. But theres no turning back, either u keep pulling all your hair out to the inanity of cyberjunk until u stop, calm the FUCK DOWN and start really thinking. Usually people need a lil more stress, a lil more drama before they breakdown and realise how ridiculously skewed their perspective is. And well sad to say, but tha STRESS and DRAMA is coming
very soon our way to break us down and CLEAR OUT OUR STINKING THINKING.

And the Iranian people! fuckin hell! putting us to shame.
Such COURAGE SPIRIT INGENUITY RESILIENCE,
Now theres a new kinda CURRENCY we can all believe in.

Is tha ANARCHY, CHAOS, DESTRUCTION, or
quite simply some real HARMONY finally.

FUCK YOU?

NAH moon1

FUCK ME!


I aint got this all worked out by a long way
but one things for sure IM GONNA FUCKIN TRY.

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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1512
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's funny, i guess, is when productive people begin getting affected by "the recession," many of them realize what it means to liberty, as pertains to individualism. typically those who have been holding their hands out continue to complain about how things ought to be on a level playing field.

but, there is a difference between absolute level and seeking one's level.

of course, the high-stakes corpo-liti-cracy behave the same way. some want handouts, some are perfectly at home with raiding holdings. unfortunately, these games are beyond sick amongst the top percentage people. we see through the mere thrill and self-importance of theirs... because it devastates everyone else, and there is no "equality" whatsoever as expressed in the US Constitution (or other "free" country's) among them.

the destitute nor the middle class can ever really "touch" them, therefore the cure is mis-directed when the middleclass and lowerclass fight and hate each other. for instance, were it to go into the streets, you may have no choice but to burn houses in a pretty neighborhood. and you may have no choice but to shoot at street people looking for your guns and food.

this shit needs to be addressed, because those of you who are enlightened will have no time to explain this to those who don't get it. it's a beautiful thing to the ones at the very top. it keeps them pretty safe.

neat, huh?

i live in an area where i have first-hand information regarding the above. it's a reality. seems most people i've come across over 5 years here and my previous years in a different setting, the sub-classes will stick together amongst themselves when the shit hits the fan.

no, i don't like it because it is essentially misplaced emotion due to years - decades or more - of conditioning. no amount of intellectualizing will make it clear in the meantime.

it's no wonder that countries affected by revolution and coup d'état begin and end through intelligence and foreign power maneuvers. the people on the streets can only fight amongst themselves. now and then you may get a sacrificial lamb, like Saddam.

this is where idealizing ends and reality begins.

so what next? best to remove oneself? yes, because throughout history, you can stay and fight all the sub-factions, or flee. either way, you will need to continue to seek your own level, sink to a different one, or aspire to the next one.

sorry i don't sound altruistic. tie-die shirts won't work under certain conditions. i am not so enthusiastic about any shit hitting the fan. perhaps my testosterone level has depleated over time, Laughing

red

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silverthread



Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 264
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

InterestIng Broadcast....Fintan

Yet , I don't really buy Into....
your Interpretation of economic-data.

Let me_ 1st quote :


A new civilization is emerging in our lives,
and blind men everywhere are trying to suppress it.

This new civilization brings with it new family styles;
changed ways of working,
loving and living;
a new economy;
new political conflicts;

and beyond all this
an altered consciousness as well.

Pieces of this new civilization exist today.
Millions are already attuning their lives
to the rhythms of tomorrow.

Others, terrified of the future,
are engaged in a desperate,
futile flight into the past and are trying to restore
the dying world that gave them birth.



Economist & Political-Sciencist :
Joseph A. Schumpeter__ [1883-1950]

Termed It :
"creative-destruction"

In Schumpeter's vision of capitalism,
innovative entry by entrepreneurs
was the force that sustained long-term economic growth,

even as it destroyed the value
of established companies that enjoyed
some degree of monopoly power.

SEE his Theory and examples Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction



ANOTHER ,
economist
that leads me to :
different interpertation of data IS :

Nickolia Kondratieff

Yeah... he faced a death-penalty
in Stalins'-Russia for his innovative-ideas.

For his L-O-N-G Wave theory of economy :


notice his :
P.rosperity_
R.ecession_
D.epression_
E.mprovement cycles.



Well , a guy named Frank Feather...
Used the L-O-N-G Wave +
Schumpeter-Business-cycles
In a 1989 book-CALLed__ :

G-Forces ;
after 10-20 yrs of research ,
to foreCast R- current 2009 'Recession'...
[i.e. hmmm...let's see :
2009 minus 1989 = an ACCURATE Forecast 20 yrs Out !
]

So ,
Kondrateiff & Schumpeter...
knew what they were talkin' bout.

Frank Feather foreCast
a L-O-N-G Wave SuperBoom...with economic Slow-downs IN :
2000 ,
2009 ,
& one coming in 2018...

He uses data used my Fintan ; yet , with Different OUTCome....

Check-It-OUT :
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4223486813108056125

AND SuperBoom here :
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2648308893233137907&hl=en

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Last edited by silverthread on Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1512
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverthread - here's hoping you are correct. like i said in one post, it's ingenuity that is most needed. but where or where are the inventors today?? may they come forth.

red

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