FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in 
The End Game v1.1
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Next Level Forum Index -> General Discussion
  ::  Previous topic :: Next topic  
Author Message
dilbert_g
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: The End Game v1.1 Reply with quote

The End Game v1.1

I'm using this title because it would be presumptuous to say "I got it all figured out". However, I think I've finally seen a glimmer of light about WTF they are up to. Others here have touched on it in various ways, so I don't know what prompted this beyond a desire for clarification, wheat from chaff and all that. Oh, I remember now: to suggest that maybe we should make a point of holding back on knee-jerk anti-govt rhetoric.

A while back, Fintan put forth the idea that the whole point of Bush being so obnoxiously horrible is to get everyone to blame HIM and hate HIM, like a lightning rod for hate. An expendable patsy, willing to suffer 'embarrassment', while the New World Order development chugs ahead. Take that to the Next Level: Hate the whole Government. Other authors have written about this. Think about Bush and company going out of their way to be overtly offensive and naked liars. American Govt can be awful, but there's even some noises in the upper middle class from what I hear, and within the military. But why?

Quote:
Someone mentioned Zarlenga on this forum:
www.monetary.org/treasurytalk.htm
Another Danger: The De-funding of government at the local, state and federal levels, arises out of this disease of attacking government as the enemy.

This attack on government starts with Adam Smith. His purpose in smearing the English government was to keep the monetary power in the hands of the privately owned Bank of England.


I think these Neocon people are too smart and too well-educated in warmaking and foreign policy to get into a war with a country that was not really an enemy, nor a threat (ok, that part's not unusual), and then enact a strategy designed to lead to decimation of the Army and a huge loss emotionally-devastating to "the base" which supported the war, hoping for a decisive victory. That is more self-immolation than Jimmy Walter on the ASSHOLE show, or Galloway in red leotards.

Not to mention this adventure that was going to cost ... how much did they project at first? ... $60bn? $200bn? Now fiscal conservatives have to choke down $2bn per week and rising, estimated by some at $1-2 Trillion total, M3 not published, and they're doing it the most expensive way possible, all outsourced to highly paid corporations and 'wetbacks' and Latin Am death squads trained at SOA, who have all been promised Green Cards.

Then we've seen INSANE polarization of thought and argument, antirational jargon and destruction of language, rendering intelligent discussion and debate impossible, promoting irrationality and insanity. Arguments get reduced to complete nonsense and gibberish, mud-slinging, mimicking how the politicians and talk show hosts do it on the "Left" and "Right", but mostly on the Right. (This author, writing from a mostly Democratic Party perspective, distinguishes merely "irrational" from structured "anti-rational" or "subrational" statements or arguments designed specifically to subvert rational thought and destroy the ability to think clearly.) (I've found subtle enjoyment posting on blogs accusing neo-con types of 'whining' and being 'hysterical' about terrorism.)

Naked deceit on the rise. People who are upset with Bush and frightened over Bushco policies or merely critical of minor aspects are "filled with hate" and "lib-ruls" i.e. pariahs. Some of that has subsided a little bit since a vast majority can see that the war is going to hell, and probably a majority are too smart to really think they can get away with blaming the US loss and disaster on the "Cindy Sheehan Mob" since although she's gotten gratuitous media coverage, she's had near zero actual traction in stopping the war or changing anyone's mind, Bush doing "whatever he wants" (following policy set for him by certain moneyed elites).

However, with a little tweak in propaganda -- or another terrorist attack -- that could take off again, boomerang, and result in riots, civil war, pogroms, attacking 'liberal businesses' and 'liberal homes and cars' and people who 'look like liberals', as the Right has been periodically using that violent rhetoric for at least a decade, fever-pitch post 9-11. I have not witnessed too many Leftists or Liberals calling for killing Conservatives, unlike Malkin, Coulter, O'Reilly and others. But the polarization is a recipe for complete chaos --- just like Iraq. What if that's the whole point of the game? Create Chaos, provide Order. Ordo Ab Chao

This sounds very similar to Alex Jones' talk about the Globalists and Illuminati (which may in fact be correct on both counts or at least one), except Jones is clearly a Birchite or Bircher or pseudo-Bircher, and the Birchers are apparently skilled at this type of psyop and deception, telling half-truths.

While searching for Zarlenga, I came across an article by Libertarian Howard S. Katz on Mises.org from the year 1984, reproduced here ( www.Takeoverworld.info/CFR-Trilateral-Katz.html ) with these quotes. (he doesn't sound like a bad guy)
Quote:
A generation ago, intellectual Objectivists and conservative
economists in the pro-liberty movement used to turn up their
noses at crackerbarrel Birchers who ranted about a giant
conspiracy centered about the Council on Foreign Relations.
Conspiracy theory was not respectable.
It turned out that the intellectuals were wrong. The Birchers
colored their view of this conspiracy with a right-wing
interpretation, but the basic facts were true.
...
First, it is not a left-wing conspiracy,
and there is no connection with any Bavarian Illminati
.Its
founder, its ideology and its most important members were on
the extreme right.' Second, the C.F.R. itself is not the
conspiracy but merely a front for it. Thus many naive and
innocent people can belong to the C.F.R. without
understanding anything about the conspiracy that controls it.
Third, the goal of the conspiracy was not one-world
government in the idealistic sense in which Birchers oppose it
.
(Although, since it wanted England to control the world, it
did favor one-world government in the imperialistic sense in
which many conservatives favor it.
)


I re-read this.
www.watch.pair.com/jbs-cnp.html
Here's a highlighted and super-linked version: www.Takeoverworld.info/John_Birch_Society_CNP.htm
Whoda thunk I'd be taking lessons from a bunch of whacky End-Times Christians? Remember, the place I found this whacky website was linked from an article called Origins of the Overclass, by a lefty guy named Steve Kangas who was found dead in a lavatory near the office of Richard Mellon Scaife who Kangas was investigating as a journalist as the "vast right-wing conspiracy" attacking Clinton and attacking America. (He sounds pro-Clinton at some points, but he died before he could have known all we know now about Bill.) Farfetched as murder? These people DO kill journalists all the time, but usually kill foreign journalists with impunity, less often Americans.

The largest growth is in alienated sectors. Republicans (I mean even a lot of core supporters) have lost faith in the Republican Party and Democrats have lost faith in the Democratic Party, as neither party seems willing to or capable of doing anything useful. People blame "the government". So, a revolutionary mood is growing. Uh-oh.

What if that's the whole point of the game?

In order to "kill" America and replace it with the New World Order, non-representative global dictatorship run by elites, who control the major corporations and banking, you have to have a great mass of American people totally disgusted with "the government" and many more completely disaffected ... so disaffected they won't even bother to vote or protest it's dissolution. You need to convince people, as Reagan said, "Govt IS the problem." And what's the point of voting anyhow, for demo/republican representation, as the deeper understanding spreads throughout society that
a) whoever wins will be an elite fuck who's an enemy of the vast majority of the people and a traitor and
b) they blatantly installed a "don't bother to waste your time voting" system?

Bankrupting America dovetails into scrapping America. Lessons of Katrina dovetails nicely into that.

The rhetoric of the "Libertarian" Mises group which I've been dipping my toe in -- which is mentioned in by Barbara Aho as linked to Nazis via the Council for National Policy --- also supports destroying government. Government is the problem ... let's just get rid of it and let private business do it's magic. Just don't do any math on the inherent power that private wealth embodies. (Denigrating government managers as "non-productive" is seeming as short-sighted as claiming that corporate management and boards of directors are "non-productive", but they won't say that. But as govt looks more and more incompetent ...)

(They even want to privatize police and courts and military, so everyone would could buy equal access. Just like we all have equal access to health care now. Except the corporate wealth could buy more, so it would be clearly a de facto dictatorship, sans evil government, all the trappings of govt without the name and with representation limited only buy your pocketbook. Can't be much worse than what we have now in America and spreading globally, right?)

Neglecting all the infrastructure of America, neglecting the trade deficit and the outsourcing of jobs (labor arbitrage) that Paul Craig Roberts discusses here. Where does this go?

Barbara Aho from that Watch Unto Prayer link above says this (she's neither pro-communist nor anti-comm):

Quote:
(First she names names for about 10 pages of links from the Nazis, far right groups in the US, WACL, outright fascist murderers many who we know by name, and communist orgs.)

The Belmont Brotherhood documents that the founding JBS National Council was entrenched in the Eastern Establishment it purported to despise. Nor is its progeny, the Council for National Policy, a conservative, anti-Communist organization, but rather a globalist organization, anti-American and unpatriotic in the extreme. Noting the curious crossover tendencies between right and left in the World Anti-Communist League, authors of Inside the League offer the following insightful analysis:

The first enemy for both political extremes is the center. Both ultra-leftists and ultra-rightists have the same primary objective: to polarize the country, to implement the breakdown of the governing system, and ultimately to create a situation of chaos where armed conflict will be between the right and the left, the center having been discredited by its failure to prevent it ...

(hmm ... Nazi Germany, all over again.)

Little wonder that terrorist after terrorist, and terrorism expert after terrorism expert, have agreed that the purpose of both Red and Black terror is to destroy the open, democratic forms of liberal government, and to replace them with something elitist and totalitarian. Rightist terror seeks "the brutal intervention of repressive forces." Leftist terror seeks the same, believing that only complete repression will bring a self-satisfied, quiet bourgeoisie to a flash point, a revolutionary "critical mass." (note: at least some of "Red Terror" was revealed as Operation Gladio, a CIA-Nazi covert op)

If this is the objective of the World Anti-Communist League, then it goes a long way toward explaining the strange alliances it has formed. It is this very pursuit of international polarization and its ability to embrace openly leftist elements in an anti-communist cause that have led many to speculate about the League's true nature. Some have even suggested a secret sponsorship of the League by the Soviet Union or other communist governments, employing it as the ultimate agent provocateur.

The idea may not be as absurd as it first sounds. The open antipathy -- and, in some cases, hatred -- for the United States and Western democracy that can be found in the League are outlooks that could easily be manipulated by the Soviets, if they haven't already." 56.

We contend that Soviet communism was merely one phase of the global dialectic, fascism and communism being two expressions of the same conspiracy. Nicholas Murray Butler of the English-Speaking Union has informed us: "Communism is the tool by which Britain's international finance is knocking down national governments in the interest of world government, world police and world currency." 57. The true conspirators are identified in The New Unhappy Lords:

If the facts concerning the Royal Institute of International Affairs and the Council on Foreign Relations be accepted, it will be seen that the proper study of political mankind is the study of power elites, without which nothing that happens can be understood. These elites, preferring to work in private, are rarely found posed for photographers, and their influence upon events has therefore to be deduced from what is known of the agencies they employ. There are dozens of such agencies, and financial support received from one or other or all three big American foundations - Rockefeller, Carnegie and Ford - provides an infallible means of recognizing them. 58.

The real conspiracy is neither exclusively communist nor fascist, but elitist, inexorably moving society through progressive deconstruction and redefinition to a Third Way society, in which a partnership of government and business will subjugate and control an enslaved workforce to serve its own purposes. That the final world empire is a composite of these forms is a concept which finds basis in Bible prophecy, specifically the hybrid "beast" of Daniel 7:3-6 and Revelation 13:1,2:


What this woman and her friend advocate as a Biblical response to this threat is prayer, surrender, and waiting it out for the Savior. That's just what they really believe as True Christianity. Not Catholicism. Not Puritan or Dominionist or Reconstructionist politics. The good thing is they oppose yee-hahs with guns taking political matters into their own hands ... oppose them for passive religious reasons.

I say for practical reasons, as well. You get creamed, you create a 'terrorist event', and then who can't know who to shoot. Bush? Might as well shoot a cardboard standup of Bush for all the change that will bring.

Now personally, I'm not expecting Jesus to return to fix this problem. Even by their unproven mythological standards, the resolution comes after 1000 years of not-too-attractive spiritual and earthly darkness. (This might be the good old days right now. I now yearn for the good old days of Ed Meese clamping down on nudie mags at convenience stores.)

However, one most apparent interim solution is something we've been grasping at and something of all people Jon Stewart has been pointing at, along with many other people. Moderation. Moderation in thought and dialogue.

We cannot let the enemy win by allowing them to define the terms of the battle. This wonderful forum seems to be at the forefront of that battle for intellectual clarity. What they want is for the Right and the Left to be polarized and bickering and hopefully fist-fighting and murdering in the streets. It seems they might WANT US TO LAUNCH AND ASSAULT TO OVERTHROW THE GOVT, HAVE A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE, AND A "CHARTREUSE REVOLUTION". Both because it could lead to a crackdown and because in the resulting power vacuum and resulting chaos, THE ELITES will offer their solution to restore order .. contingent on our willingness to submit to them without question.

On the other hand, they may come up with some other form of chaos to implement martial law, but they have not set up Northcom just for kicks.

For starters, one thing we NEED is sanity and respectful dialogue. In other words, a little bit of ridicule goes a long way. The tools we have are the Internet, and personal contact. Good luck, but it's all we got. Good news is, we don't have to overthrow our govt. systems. Tough news is, we have to change ourselves, our paradigms. Next Level.

Since I don't think there's too many Republicans on this forum, I'd say our big task is to hug a Conservative --- no, scratch that --- communicate with Conservatives today and communicate with neo-con twerps by effectively disarming their idiocy. And sleepy mainstream Liberals. Conservatives look at "fake liberals" on TV and think that's what Liberalism is, and many Libs have bought into all that --- like Statewide banning of smoking in private restaurants and bars in Ohio 'for the good of society and to save the children', regardless of the implied training in loss of sovereign rights over private property of the owners, and in ignorance of the fact that private owners already had every right to ban smoking or find solutions in the best manner, and many already had done so. Instead of asking restaurants to change, the anti-social chicken-shit public was convinced to have govt do that for them. I don't know if "Liberals" promoted this change or "Conservatives" or both, but it's clearly (to me) an unnecessary anti-Libertarian act of serious significance in it's psyop potential.

Liberals look at Conservatives on TV, and think that Conservatism means stepping all over everyone's rights with the police and a lot of Conservatives buy into that (cheering when cops beat up "hippies") I guess because totalitarian ethos feels good to fragile egos and well ... it's a dominant paradigm. Hell, they only spent tens of billions on think tanks and media for decades to contruct that paradigm. And some liberals do the same thing insofar as cheering when conservatives get slammed.

Here's the links I put above
www.watch.pair.com/jbs-cnp.html
NOW READY www.Takeoverworld.info/John_Birch_Society_CNP.htm
www.monetary.org/treasurytalk.htm
www.Takeoverworld.info/overclass.html
www.Takeoverworld.info/mp3/PC_Roberts_EP2006.02.07.mp3
www.Takeoverworld.info/mp3/Alex_Carey_-Corporations_and_Propaganda_1230alex.mp3
www.Takeoverworld.info/mp3/Alex_Carey_2_-Corporations_and_Propaganda_1230alex.mp3


New page, kinda fun and slick for the sleepy. Hopefully not too strident.
www.Takeoverworld.info/freedomend.html


Last edited by dilbert_g on Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:25 am; edited 9 times in total
Back to top
obeylittle



Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Middle o' Mitten, Michigan Corp. division of United States of America Corp. division of Global Corp.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resembles a hole in the ground, circling high above the morning dew. Like Manhattan on so many recent dawns...

No smoky skies, nor cameramen. No ribbon-tied flowers, nor sobbing child. So surreal, it must be better here. This quiet country dirt.

Saving and planning for the entire post season... new chassis, spare parts, more motor, tweak it, gusset it, change it up! Measure... change... measure. Again, more of that, yes again!

Endless meetings, a strategy borne o' war... mentally rehearsing every line around it, and every setup got to put under it.

For it.

T'was but a dream to have been here now, but... Two laps the chance to qualify into the big Feature show... and now its done. Some hot lap pre-race preview. Some reality to some... Future after the first fast lap!

And locked in to The Feature Main.

Right front spring.. stiffen the shocks... take out some rear steer.. go up another gear...

Crankin' in that left rear bite!

Mount new tires and fully refueled, for nothing now to ever fear. Weigh Scaled, wedged and waiting on a big ol' Bump an' Run.

Been 'round the track an' feeling less secured. Secrets all slid through though... an' lucky to find a stickier, bottom feedin' groove.

Keep it turning left... toward the flagman all goin' 'round an' round. Course is always closed so can't no one ever change it now.

Locked in to the Future... on that one hot, two lap times.

Going 'round and 'round out here, where Its peeling loose coming off the top. Speeding toward a blurring of black and white. Few more laps to go an' so's its time for sliding 'er low... Takin' on that sticky bottom line.

Getting Circular Vision sure, albeit lessor than the news media's grandeur. Cuz' propah ganda ain't my strongest suit!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1512
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great post, gary... makes sense to me. i haven't been able to classify myself when asked, 'cept to say "moderate."
i've long felt that the rank and file here in america has been led to sports-team like behavior when it comes to politics, our military, class roles, etc.
and what's the use of that, anyway? well, as you've laid out in your above post, the implications are very useful and real to SOMEBODY or SOMETHING... but not to the masses.

red

_________________
just cos things are fucked up doesn't mean it isn't progress...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Fintan
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8807

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:22 pm    Post subject: Next Level Reply with quote

Yeah, definitely a Next Level post.

This is the kind of measured analysis which should be the norm if we
are to see any progress. Which is why measured analysis is deliberately
sidelined in the tabloid-ization of issues by the media.

The media and the elite both feed off uncertainty, division and emotionalism.

I'll do some more thinking before responding further, but I would say
that I think it unlikely that want to push things too far. I mean, it's bad
for business to have people in the streets, instead of working. There are
practicalities, after all. No need if they can do it with PsyOp.

And they are very, verrrry good at PsyOp.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
dilbert_g
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all. That's why I said v1.1. You guys can make it level 2 or 3.

avoiding hysteria, I'll add this:

In the meantime, I found this quote by Dave Emory:

Take note of Winkler’s account of how Schacht re-structured the German economy with an eye to—among other things—driving the citizenry to such a point of hysteria that they would willingly follow the likes of Hitler.
Back to top
Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2950
Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post, Gary. Yes, that's pretty much my own take, at least as far as the willful destruction of the U.S. government. And I think by the time it comes around to that, most of the U.S. populace will accept it warmly. It first occurred to me back when I read David Ray Griffin's comment that it seemed to him that there was "so much evidence of an inside job" that it appeared to him that "the perpetrators of 9/11 wanted to be caught".... even though I now doubt DRG's agenda, that comment solidified my own scenario.

I came to the conclusion that a basic version of 9/11 eventually would come out in the MSM, in order to simply destroy the American people's faith in government itself. Nothing like reality, but a watered-down version blaming "rogue elements" of complicity, and leading right up to the brink of a deliberate, inside job..... with the answers left teetering between "did they or didn't they do it?" Just enough doubt to erode what little support this "last remaining superpower" will have from it's populace as this progresses.

It's in Stage 4 or 5 right now - we had the "underground loony" Alex Jones phase, the "slightly known bit actor" Ed Begley phase, the "man of questionable moral standing" Charlie Sheen phase, now we're in the "married to that Right-Wing-hated 'evil Liberal' Streisand" James Brolin phase. Gradually the "celebrity endorsements" will drift further towards the middle, as more and more of America is "allowed" to grasp (or gasp at) the concept.

It'll take years, but slowly enough Americans will start to get the gist of this that it will be revealed how "dangerous" it is to have a governmental structure that is "so easily corrupted and hijacked by a group like PNAC" (the designated Snidely Whiplashes of the political spectrum), that perhaps some "global oversight" is necessary to prevent this country's massive military ever getting up off the table and carpet bombing at will again.

This revelation will be traumatic for most people, and the resulting trauma will also be employed to assist other psy-ops, but it will be tricky - since one of the inevitable by-products from revelations about corrupt government is always a populace that wants to arm itself to the teeth, and they can't have that. That, IMO, is the psy-op that will be most critical during the next 8 years of Dem Congress and Queen Hillary - gun control and making sure this break-down in trust of the system comes at a slow enough pace to not breed massive new private militia expansion.

I'm certain we'll hear the phrase 'Nazi militias' even more that we now hear 'Islamo-Fascists'.

And you're totally right about the left-right paradigm. Dem and the GOP recognizing a common enemy is the biggest fear, which is why we have the Ann Coulters and such, to promote the vitriol. The phony 2-party system is the problem, not that the concept of govt is flawed. The parties are never going to be comprised of honest politicians because honest politicians are automatically excluded from the roster. Compliance with The Machine is the first requirement, and failing that requirement - if you're on the outside, will prevent you from joining - and if you're already on the inside it'll get you a limo ride through Dealy Plaza.

Look at the far ends of the political spectrum in the U.S. - many Liberals are coming on board the 9/11 scenario, and many extreme Right-Wingers have long distrusted the government - for different reasons - but to the same extent. The precise moment those 2 forces join up in perfect, large numbered, anti-govt harmony is going to have to be the most carefully concocted synchronicity ever devised. Ownership of the MSM will never be more critical, or they never would have even attempted this.

The dishonesty of it is tantamount - all these perps are doing to erode the system is simply remove the safeguards that would have prevented the erosion. Corporate ownership of the press (or media, if you're under 80 years old), congressional oversight of the intel community, etc. Anyone who's ever run the CIA - like Poppy Bush - certainly sees a vivid example of how easy it is to manipulate perceived opinion when total secrecy is accepted as not only normal behavior, but the very lifeblood of an entity's existence. And that is the Orwellian model for control - the ruler must simply never allow the ruled to see actual reality, and constantly manage the 'allowed' reality. Everyone - on the Left and the Right - screams about the Constitution. Maybe it's the cheap seats I bought, but from where I'm sitting the Constitution has been ignored almost from the start.

I dunno... at this point, I'm not even sure the truth would do anyone any good anyway, because I doubt they'd believe it.

As far as the reaching out thing... I've done it with my Dittohead Brother. But he's a tough sell. Most amateur ideologues have invested too much time and energy in hawking their political wares that they can't stop now. I find it difficult myself, to stop.

_________________
"No matter what happens, ever... there's ALWAYS at least one reason. And the top reason is ALWAYS money."


Last edited by Rumpl4skn on Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
dilbert_g
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great insight, Rumpl. I don't know what I can add.

I think I asked Rosalinda some interesting questions HERE
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11127#11127
and I'm hoping for a good response from her.

'Nazi militias' even more that we now hear 'Islamo-Fascists'.

limo ride through Dealy Plaza
(just for having limits on being a Cold Warrior)

The Constitution HAS been ignored, and corrupted from the start. Zarlenga explains how Hamilton pushed HARD for a national govt, against forces like Jefferson who said a strong central govt could not be trusted to preserve liberty, then when discussing how to set up banking via the national govt, Hamilton said "we can't trust the govt with money" and proceeded to hand that task to a private bank -- HIS BANK.

Nevertheless, the more I read about it, the Constitutional system itself -- with a little mud and sanding (drywall patching) to KEEP power decentralized and prevent banking from being hijacked, and CLEARLY ENUMERATE a few more liberties, and eliminate Corporate Personhood -- it's a fine system as is. The reason I say that is that in principle, in writing, it guarantees FULL sovereignty and rights to individuals, it states that this is inherent not granted, it says the govts job is to protect this, and allows certain privileges to the govt. for this specific purpose. That seems like very sound reasoning to me.

That govt officials unlawfully seized power by claiming privileges they were never granted (and ordinary people didn't know), and that big money found ways to abuse this power and harness it, I think there are always loopholes and always potential corruption in any system from a family to a govt to a church to a bowling team, but I think the principle itself is sound.

A Revolutionary change, to either a Dictatorship or a Dictatorship of the Proles, this sounds very bad to me on a number of counts. That is to say, I have to agree that communism is unworkable and deprives individual liberty by trusting leaders who have ultimate unlimited authority to act on behalf of abstracts like "the masses" or "society" which is held as more important than individual rights. It's downright Bushian. Delegation of powers is always a problem of trust vs. micromanagement. Delegation of duties to experts is a problem, but experts are necessary in the modern century. Don't ask me to come up with rules on what kind of oversight to put on Atomic Energy or the electric grid or water or whatnot. However transparency is vital too, because I think we're smart enough to figure out when something is bogus, when there's vigorous and reasoned debate.

If outright socialism is unworkable (because some lucky person or party always has to be in charge of managing it) (and because of the unlimited power of this 'dictatorship' to eliminate 'enemies of the revolution' or do what is necessary for 'the good of the whole', and if fascism is totally unworkable, then it seems to me like the best option is already on the table -- tweaked perhaps to be more like what some called Libertarian-Socialism.

Beyond labels, I think that Libertarian-Socialism means a similar Constitutional form of govt, WITH property rights, but with a government that restricts Corporations, something the Framers did not fully consider. As a matter of fact, I peeked at the Venezuelan constitution, and though I'm not sure on Chavez, theirs has a lot more checks and balances and shifting power down to the street with referendums and recalls, instead of waiting for the next election or for Congress to get off their ass. In terms of principles, America may not be too far off, no need to re-invent the wheel or try 'radical experiments' which have often led to mass death.

The only remaining problem is explaining this to 300 million semi-illiterate people without the use of a broadcast media system. The good part is it's not so much a hard sell. I think it's more or less common sensical. But it's buried under layers of psyop. What I'm also saying too is that theory is as important as action, and perfection is impossible.
Back to top
dilbert_g
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:36 pm    Post subject: absence of Secret Societies Reply with quote

For lack of a better place to post this, this rare Call-in show on Taking Aim points out some rather good things, including a brief discussion on the absence of Secret Societies (or at least the lack of need for them) and pushes anti-Capitalism without specifically pushing Communism, Stalin, Lenin, or Mao.

http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim060425.mp3

I wish he'd spend some time defining what terms of socialism he supports. Still good viewpoints, IMO.
He needs to know, I'm still of the opinion that time's not right for any kind of grassroots Revolution, given the pathetic state of political awareness in the "good ole USA".

In brief contradiction, I was in the local diner about 3am the other day, and there was a bunch of OLD DRUNKS in there intelligently discussing the Federal Reserve and the phony War on Terror and Al-Qaeda being CIA.

related here: http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11338#11338
Back to top
obeylittle



Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Middle o' Mitten, Michigan Corp. division of United States of America Corp. division of Global Corp.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert_g wrote:
If outright socialism is unworkable (because some lucky person or party always has to be in charge of managing it) (and because of the unlimited power of this 'dictatorship' to eliminate 'enemies of the revolution' or do what is necessary for 'the good of the whole', and if fascism is totally unworkable, then it seems to me like the best option is already on the table -- tweaked perhaps to be more like what some called Libertarian-Socialism.

Beyond labels, I think that Libertarian-Socialism means a similar Constitutional form of govt, WITH property rights, but with a government that restricts Corporations, something the Framers did not fully consider. As a matter of fact, I peeked at the Venezuelan constitution, and though I'm not sure on Chavez, theirs has a lot more checks and balances and shifting power down to the street with referendums and recalls, instead of waiting for the next election or for Congress to get off their ass. In terms of principles, America may not be too far off, no need to re-invent the wheel or try 'radical experiments' which have often led to mass death.

The only remaining problem is explaining this to 300 million semi-illiterate people without the use of a broadcast media system. The good part is it's not so much a hard sell. I think it's more or less common sensical. But it's buried under layers of psyop. What I'm also saying too is that theory is as important as action, and perfection is impossible.


You come pretty close to a workable society there in that final sentence. Though I would swap "Theory" with "Action" because action, or activity, or actively, whatever... that is the missing ingredient. Persons must be active, aggressive, individuals, at all times. Simply put, the persons must rule with an iron fist. On a daily basis!

As far as government structure I too feel that we have a decent conceptual base in our Constitution, just needs a few little tweaks to bring the "balance" of power cascading wholly onto the people. Surprisingly, this balance of power tweak we need is already there to, because the meaning of the term, "the top down", has been twisted to perversion using the corporate hierarchy (the Pyramid) model to define it. Obviously our Constitution needs some work though... it reads like a contract with all the amendments tacked on.

The corporations' power and rights must be reduced to levels subservient to the needs and wants of the people in the community. What I mean by that, is a corporation must not be allowed to be an institution of the State. A corporation or company must not hold any "rights", nor organized into political structures, but be servants beholden to the boss; the people of that community. In this way inter-community as well as nationwide or global trade can take place, but keeping the structure local. Keep your enemies close... er, your corps.

Same goes for elected representatives. Just controlled and directed servants of the people and remaining local. Hand them scripted orders and watch them like they are criminals because if we don't do that, then criminals they are certain to become. We need to be able to toss them out of office by consensus on any given day, if they aren't capable, or willing to do the job for us. Iron Fist.

The structure... well, what say we eliminate the single Executive crap and diffuse the power a bit. Same game for the Judicial and Legislative. Break them up into smaller, more manageable local structures. This becomes attractive if we were to firstly redefine the power hierarchy properly as it is intended -- from the top (the person) down. Goes something like this:

Top level = The person
2nd level = The people
3rd level = The elected community reps
4th level = The elected state reps
5th level = The elected regional reps

As you can see this model is an inverted Pyramid. The elected official at the regional level is a President representing that region of the US containing several states. With a top down structure like this where there are 5 or 6 Presidents maybe more, each beholden to the states in his/her region, the Executive is left with little power and functions by committee. Virtually powerless they are... but useful still for several functions such as controlling the military and washing the dishes. Laughing

Take a traditional corporate hierarchy and flip it inside out. The CEOs are peons now, each taking orders from department heads. Get it? This is the conceptual model I'm trying to outline above.

It needs some more work though no doubt, but each of us is qualified and each of us is capable of finding what is best for us. Just one ingredient missing today... the active Iron Fist individual... which is also the catalyst.

------------
On Edit:
Just a quick ps (post suggestion)
Lets correct the "Top Down" pyramid power perversion in our culture at every opportunity, OK? Say it on a tee-shirt. Say it in your living room. Say it at parties. Say it in a crowded restaurant. Say it on your birthday cake. Wherever, but correct it properly when you hear the term being misused or see it being misused. Gotta work on this...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 1556
Location: Belly of the Beast, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, reading this post this morning pulled my mind up out of the clutter pretty quick. Next level. Now we're talkin'.

The perception of a world in constant random chaos the 'pubic' wakes up in daily really is turned on and off from above, just another aspect of control management of the System.

There's much insight compact in this post, Gary, so I'm not going to post much in response yet either until I read give it multiple close reading.

For this response I focus on your crystaline insight here:

Quote:
I guess because totalitarian ethos feels good to fragile egos and well ... it's a dominant paradigm.
Hell, they only spent tens of billions on think tanks and media for decades to construct that paradigm.


That's important to know, since this weakness in human nature is exactly what's exploited to get enough of the public to 'go along' and support--demand--Totalitarianism.
The most compliant slave is the one that identifies with the Masters.
On the evidence a majority of people anywhere in any age are susceptible to this phenomenon, and no one should consider themselves immune. Therefore it would be of tremendous value if self-awareness of this single aspect ever cuts through into mainstream perception. This system cannot exist and function without this human flaw to exploit.

Orwell revealed that truth, and still too few understand that War itself was always a tool for control of the masses. We can demonstrate the fact of that now that we know that 'opposing' nations, and 'sides', tend to be controlled by one hidden clique at the top.

Seeing from the next level happens once a person grasps the real paradigms which are used by those with the power to make them happen.

_________________
The anticipated never happens. The unexpected constantly occurs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dilbert_g
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:17 pm    Post subject: Who's behind the SURGE Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind comments. I just figured ... why HELP them destroy Liberty and Democracy? It seems like hating the government is just a knee-jerk reaction which goes overboard.

I think I mentioned this above, sorry if this is a repeat:
Quote:
Paul Weyrich - CNP Board of Governors (1982; 1996); CNP Secretary-Treasureer Executive Committee (1984-85; 1988). In 1977, The Heritage Foundation employed Roger Pearson on the editorial board of Policy Review, the monthly Heritage publication. Pearson is a British race scientist who organized the Northern League of Europe and became head of of the World Anti-Communist League, the multinational network of Nazi war criminals, Latin American death squad leaders and North American neo-fascists. In 1975, Pearson organized the North American neo-fascists into an American branch of the WACL called Council on American Affairs. Roger Pearson, whose research was financed by the Pioneer Fund of Tom Ellis, is a Briton who obtained his master's degree at the London School of Economics. The LSE was founded and financed by the British Fabian Society in 1894.

"The Committee of 300 through its many affiliated organizations was able to nullify the Reagan presidency. Here is what Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation had to say on the subject 'The right thought it had won in 1980 but in fact it have lost.' What Butler was referring to was the situation in which the Right found itself when it realized that every single position of importance in the Reagan administration was filled by Fabianist appointees recommended by the Heritage Foundation. Butler went on to say that Heritage would use rightwing ideas to impose leftwing radical principles upon the United States, the same radical ideas which Sir Peter Vickers Hall, top Fabianist in the U.S. and the number one man at Heritage, had been openly discussing during the election year.


Not like worker-cooperatives. A twisted Fabianism (unless you think that ALL Fabianism was really about this) of creating a conformist society with an intrusive police state, a Cheka, and global permanent war.



I sent out this email recently:

Who's behind the SURGE

My friend mentioned to me that this new "surge" option comes from a group of generals at the American Enterprise Institute. (The "surge" report is by Fred Kagan, Kagan is a member of PNAC, Project for the New American Century. The same propaganda group that started the War on Iraq.)

Well, who is AEI? Are they just a "right wing think tank"? AEI is a spinoff of the [b]Pew Charitable Trust, the family of J. Howard Pew (1882-1971). Pew was founder of Sun Oil (Sunoco). [/b] (NPR is jokingly called National Petroleum Radio)

Pew - Facing the Corporate Roots of American Fascism
American Enterprise Institute: This conservative think tank was founded in 1943 *(by Pew).
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/pew.html
but doesn't Pew Charitable Trust fund a lot of Left Wing TV documentaries... on NPR ... a front of the "public" media run by CIA psychological warfare specialists? Yeah, "Left Wing" causes. Good cover.

In the 1930s, J. Howard Pew was on the American Liberty League’s Advisory Council and its Executive Committee. He also made donations to the League ($20,000), the Sentinels of the Republic ($5,000) and the Crusaders ($4,000). Other Pew family members also donated generously, particularly to the Sentinels of the Republic.

http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/all-both.html
Well, American Liberty League was behind the plot to oust the government of FDR by military force and install a fascist military government modeled after Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini.

Lurking in the background behind the plot to oust FDR was the American Liberty League, a pro-business think-tank and ultra-right wing lobby group. Its treasurer was Jerry MacGuire’s boss, Grayson Murphy, a leading J.P. Morgan broker. One of its top donors was Robert Clark, who also tried to recruit General Smedley Butler into the conspiracy to oust President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

They've been trying to do this for years. I think it's just an extension of the War on Labor and Freedom by Capitalists. They want serfs. I will concede that Capitalism does not necessarily require war against people or slavery --- but it generally does because the most successful tend to be the most ruthless.

Incidentally, I just reviewed what A. Sutton had to say about what Smedley Butler actually told the Committee. It was that FDR was going to get "kicked upstairs" and that FDR was happy to go along with this gang's ideas, willing to step aside and let the fascists run things.


Christian America http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/christian_america.html
more: historical chain of people behind the "surge":
Failing to physically beat labor into submission the fascist turned to legal tactics such as the anti-union right to work law. The law is still highly regarded in right wing circles today, but few know that it was first sponsored by the fascist group, Christian America in the early 1940s.69 The forces behind the Christian American group were wealthy Texans tied to the Kirby family. Christian America was formed by Vance Muse after the death of Kirby. Both Kirby and Muse had a long history of opposing the New Deal and supporting racism:

"Into this bedlam and chaos in Germany adolf hitler injected himself as a new messiah to lead ordely german from political confusion to systematic unity. Hitler put it up to the Germans to decide between the Jewish ownership and domination of the country or domination and ownership by the ninety nine percent of the German population. Human nature being what it is, it is not strange that the Germans decided against the Jews and in favor of Hitler. Our president (Roosevelt) has sent two insulting messages to Hitler and a number of his pink cabineteers have most blantantly and violently broadcast silly insults to the German government." (just so you know whose side everyone is on)

"Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business." Michael Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute



more random stuff if you can use it:

Even tho Mises is listed as being tied to some of these Nazi groups, some of these writers are still pretty good. Also, useful to send out to neo-conservatives to tweak them in their own language. But I do not support elimination of government so ruthless business can run everything with no brakes.

A little fun: http://www.mises.org/story/1920
The Attempted Militarization of the Jetsons

36 Ways the US Is Losing the War on Terror
http://www.antiwar.com/utley/?articleid=3234
(actually, this article is by a far right extremist, member of the Council for National Policy and various far right groups www.seekgod.ca/cnp.t-v.htm#utley )
http://www.againstbombing.com/
Libertarians Bash Bush CATO Lecture Bartlett Book, "How Bush Bankrupted America, Betrayed
Reagan Legacy
"

http://iraqwar.org/talking-points.htm more from the far right:
Iraq Talking Points For Talk Radio and Letters to Editors
America was once revered in the Muslim world, after Kennedy supported freedom for Algeria from France and Eisenhower got England, France and Israel to withdraw from their conquest of Suez in 1956. America was so admired that Muslim Malaysia even copied its national flag from the American Flag.

America is simply incapable of "ruling the world." Yet many Conservatives, who think that the government can't run a nursery school, now believe it can run the world, and indeed, that virtually without allies or abiding by any rule of (international) law. Equally many Big Government Conservatives now support new takings of Americans' freedoms in the name of "security." The dispute over the Anti-Terror PATRIOT Act defined the line between those conservatives who want empire and those who most value freedom.

Most Americans never supported a program to blockade chlorine for purifying drinking water or prohibit even pencils for Iraqi school children. Most Americans don't know of the heinous killing done to Iraqi civilians in their name (by destroying their irrigation, sanitation, and electricity generating systems, and then blockading reconstruction supplies for 7 years during which time Iraq did comply with UN resolutions). Most Americans would not support and pay for the Israeli settlers kicking Palestinians out of their homes, if they knew.

"Perpetual war serves a number of purposes.....It is under wartime conditions that the U.S. state will, at least initially, face the least resistance as it finishes the......process of gutting the Bill of Rights and voiding inconvenient parts of the U.S. Constitution......It is under wartime conditions that all opponents of U.S. policies anywhere in the world, including within the U.S. itself, can be most easily labeled 'terrorist.'" This statement would have come from a conservative in 1940. Today it is from the Left (Alternative Press Review, Spring 2002).

Foreign dictators have long caused untold human misery. But it is not for America to cause the further misery of so many innocents, because of their rulers. (see former President Carter comments). Nations have always had wars and guerrilla insurrections, but, once America takes sides, then we bear responsibilities. Consequently, we now have mortal enemies in two of the most treacherous and fanatical parts of the world, the Middle East and the Balkans. Millions of foreigners, however unjustly, now hate us as the new "imperialists." More bombing overseas will mean more terrorist attacks upon us. This because we are not resolving the root causes of their hatred.

To paraphrase President Bush----------

We are not hated because we are "good;" we're hated because we've been killing them;

We are not hated because we are "free;" we're hated because we support the dictators who abuse them;

We are not hated because we are "rich"; we're hated because of our hypocrisy.


"Palestinians recognized Israel's right to exist, in return for a future state in Gaza & the West Bank in the Oslo accords," signed in 1993. Wall Street Journal, 8/13/01

What's So Funny? MUST SEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WIMGyERyxU
If anyone you know has NOT seen Bush cracking JOKES over WMDs, this is a must see. I think this is one of those things which have been narrowcasted.

So what's the summary. I dont know. I'm just hoping people start to recognize the pieces of the puzzle and put them together.


Last edited by dilbert_g on Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
Rosalinda



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 355
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:40 am    Post subject: Re: The End Game v1.1 Reply with quote

Quote:
Someone mentioned Zarlenga on this forum:
www.monetary.org/treasurytalk.htm

Zarlenga is a proponent of a government-controlled money supply.
Sober; highly recommendable. He knows what he is talking about.

Quote:
Another Danger: The De-funding of government at the local, state and federal levels, arises out of this disease of attacking government as the enemy.


Bingo. The dearticulation of the economic system, the result: serfs.

This attack on government starts with Adam Smith. His purpose in smearing the English government was to keep the monetary power in the hands of the privately owned Bank of England.


The Wealth of Nations was published in 1776. Of course the date is no abject coincindence. Smith was trained at Haileysburg, he was an East India Company employee, and told to write a book that borrowed from the french physiocrats to propound a sententious shopkeeper's economics

Quote:
I think these Neocon people are too smart and too well-educated ....


Perle and Ledeen and the cell in Scoop Jackson's office go a long way
back together - read strausses books - if you can - there is NOTHING there -
this is a penetration cell from the get-go, it has to be...

the actual neo-cons have bad breath and mortgages they are toilet paper

puppet master George Shultz who masterminded the Pinochet coup in Chile

Recall that neoliberal free trade economcs was immediately installed in Chile

and Chile was the poster boy for free trade economics for several decades.

Quote:
or a threat (ok, that part's not unusual), and then enact a strategy designed to lead to decimation of the Army and a huge loss emotionally-devastating to "the base" which supported the war, hoping for a decisive victory.


you have got it right, it has to be a set up... just like the route of the US
Eigth Army in Nov-Dec 1950 in North Korea caused by bad intelligence.
NcArthur's General Walton Walker advanced into 500,000 Chinese troops
who provided intelligence if not the air force? and the inteligence service

Quote:
Not to mention this adventure that was going to cost ... how much did they project at first? ... $60bn? $200bn? Now fiscal conservatives have to choke down $2bn per week and rising, estimated by some at $1-2 Trillion total, M3 not published, and they're doing it the most expensive way possible, all outsourced to highly paid corporations and 'wetbacks' and Latin Am death squads trained at SOA, who have all been promised Green Cards.


Quote:
Then we've seen INSANE polarization of thought and argument, antirational jargon and destruction of language, rendering intelligent discussion and debate impossible, promoting irrationality and insanity.


The Information Age bites back with a vengance like an angry Ms PacMan

Quote:
(This author, writing from a mostly Democratic Party perspective, distinguishes merely "irrational" from structured "anti-rational" or "subrational" statements or arguments designed specifically to subvert rational thought and destroy the ability to think clearly.) (I've found subtle enjoyment posting on blogs accusing neo-con types of 'whining' and being 'hysterical' about terrorism.)


Torturing neo-cons on internet forums is of course allowed under the rules

Quote:
Naked deceit on the rise. People who are upset with Bush and frightened over Bushco policies or merely critical of minor aspects are "filled with hate" and "lib-ruls" i.e. pariahs. Some of that has subsided a little bit since a vast majority can see that the war is going to hell, and probably a majority are too smart to really think they can get away with blaming the US loss and disaster on the "Cindy Sheehan Mob" since although she's gotten gratuitous media coverage, she's had near zero actual traction in stopping the war or changing anyone's mind, Bush doing "whatever he wants" (following policy set for him by certain moneyed elites).


If you want to know how it all turns out, read Thucydides because what
you describe sounds a lot like what was going on in Athens of Pericles
when the Athenian democracy turned empire found a way to destroy itself

Quote:
What if that's the whole point of the game?

In order to "kill" America and replace it with the New World Order, non-representative global dictatorship run by elites, who control the major corporations and banking, you have to have a great mass of American people totally disgusted with "the government" and many more completely disaffected ... so disaffected they won't even bother to vote or protest it's dissolution. You need to convince people, as Reagan said, "Govt IS the problem." And what's the point of voting anyhow, for demo/republican representation, as the deeper understanding spreads throughout society that
a) whoever wins will be an elite fuck who's an enemy of the vast majority of the people and a traitor and
b) they blatantly installed a "don't bother to waste your time voting" system?

Bankrupting America dovetails into scrapping America. Lessons of Katrina dovetails nicely into that.



The Govt budgets manipulated so the always come up short and
politicans subborned and systemaicaly put into compromised situations
in a sophisticated mechanism to increase public distrust of government.

_________________
"It is through beauty, that one proceeds to freedom." - Friedrich Schiller
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Next Level Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

Theme xand created by spleen.