Malaysia MH17 Shot Down Over Ukraine

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Jimbo wrote:
kiwikeith wrote:Good analysis of evidence of a shootdown on examining a hi-res photo of a fragment of the cockpit wreckage by a Peter Haisenko a German pilot. ... sian-mh17/
I just made a possible ass of myself (again) taking your link to another message board and then I went looking for what shrapnel holes look like. ... -etc.3997/
First glance looks like they are doing some decent analysis at metabunk.

They are going with the missile story though, and the holes you see are shrapnel from a missile exploding before impact....someone mentioned they are designed to do this or are capable of it.

Mick west an Admin there posted videos of bullet tests saying that the holes dont look like bullet ones.

The problem there is the tests he showed were of bullets hitting the test metal head on, and dont account for the fact the plane could have been shot at from an angle.

The holes from pictures ive seen are of different sizes its not clear does point more to it being hit by shrapnel than a certain caliber.

Image ... -13-16.jpg
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Tossing this into the mix on the
question of shrapnel / bullets / both:
IOUCO-International Observatory of Ukrainian Conflict
Petri Krohn:
The critical piece of evidence in the ‪#‎MH17‬ mystery has been found.

The plane was brought down by machine gun fire from the right and
above. The armor piercing bullets entered the cockpit through the heavy
titanium frame above the right side cockpit window and exited it below the
left side window. The irregular shrapnel is likely the result of a 1/2 or 1/3
mixture of HE rounds in the ammo.

The screenshot shows the bullet holes in the upper frame of the right side cockpit windows. ... 670180891/

Image ... _holes.png
Sources: ... _holes.png ... rame_parts

OCSE monitor mentions bullet holes in MH17 @11 seconds.

MH17 fuselage part with 'MACHINE-GUN TYPE OF HOLES'
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Max van der Werff published this 48hrs ago on Facebook.

I thought it a good idea to reproduce outside of FB:
By Max van der Werff with Petri Krohn and Vladimir Suchan. ... 3209135844

Dutch state television ‪#‎NOS‬ put a polished animation online yesterday
titled: "What happened to ‪#‎MH17‬ ?" ... -mh17.html

Sounds exciting, finally the mystery is solved! Not really. And to be honest
I had my doubts beforehand. To give you an indication, in the clip that
lasts 2 minutes the word 'probably' was used 3x, 'possibly' 1x and
'maybe' 1x.


With info of I decided to construct a map (photo 1) and
compare it with the picture the US State Department released (photo 2).


Photo 2 shows the flight path of MH17 (yellow),
the spot from which the missile was launched (Snizhne),
the flight path of the missile (green),
the crash site and
the spot (orange) in the air where the missile hit MH17.

Photo 1 position of MH17 at 13:09:55hrs in the left top corner
(note: Local time = UTC+3 = 16:09:55).
Red line is the flight path of MH17.

What the vague State Department slate does not show is clearly visible
on this map. The location of the crash site is clearly BEFORE the last Flightradar MH17 position.

How is that possible to explain?

Maybe, Flightradar is unreliable? That's what I thought instantly.
No, it is not. Actually it is very reliable.

I posted this very same question July 25th:
How is that possible to explain? ... 7839454381

Let's have a closer look at the crash site (photo 3).


It gets even harder to explain for me. Last position of MH17 was right
above Snizhne? How could that be? The missile would have been fired
in an almost vertical position, in contrast to the curved green trajectory
photo 2 shows?

But, what is even weirder, after the plane was hit,
the debris flew +/- 20 km backwards?

I thought about this possibility: after the plane was hit and crashed, some
parts still followed the flight path. The last location of the plane is actually
a small part in which exactly the position-locator is built in. That could
explain it.

No. The altitude remained steady at 33,000ft all the time. How could some
parts continue to fly after the main parts of MH17 crashed and still move

Back to: "What happened with #MH17 ?"

For the second time I decided to watch the briefing
of the Russian Ministry of Defense.

The theory of #NOS and State Department (it really is nothing more than
that) about what happened to MH17 really needs to deliver credible
answers to the questions posed.

Based on all available data I present a different hypothesis about what
happened to MH17
(photo 4).


Something hit the plane above Snizhne. The plane was damaged,
stopped sending data to flightradar, but WAS STILL ABLE TO FLY.

It made a 180 turning over the left (blue) or right (black) wing.
Eventually MH17 did not make it and crashed after having flown
+/-20 km in direction opposite to its original course.

Journalist Joost Niemoller : "There was a Distress Call". ... le-daling/

Hint: Is this presumed distress call the reason Kiev immediately confiscated ATC-pilots audio?
Here is a Google Translate version of the
distress call article hyperlinked above:
Breaking: There was 'Distress call' pilot MH17 in "rapid decline."

JULY 20, 2014 AT 18:43

One of the survivors, attended the relatives meeting at the airport, contacted me and informed me that a spokesman for Malaysian Airlines at a first meeting of the relatives had been told that there had been a distress call at a hotel at Schiphol from one of the pilots, with an air traffic control tower in Ukraine. The aircraft was then hit into a rapid decline.

In no notice until now there was the pilot at the time of the attack or the crash was in contact with air traffic control. This is new.

It is obviously not a pleasant news for the families who obviously hoped that the passengers have suffered as little as possible. On the other hand, we do not know to what extent who were aware of the rapid decline. It was for that reason that the survivor in question was worried. After the meeting, he did not inquire of the pipe and which confirmed that there had been contact between the pilot and air traffic control. Indeed there

The survivor in question, and his sister, had sound recordings, but, due to a technical mistake, just not this particular moment. A moment after, when it was well said:

"At this stage were are unable to say why the airplane crashed or what the captain was trying to do, we really really do not know ...."

It is therefore clearly a follow up to the announcement that there was contact with the pilot at the time that there was an emergency.

There is not the relatives said that they might have. No contact with the press The focus in the hall then went mainly on the yet to be established "Passengers manifesto," the list of people who were on the flight, which may explain this important communication that came out earlier. The question "is my family like 'was more important than" what happened exactly. " Moreover, said the spokesman of Malaysian Airlines (not the same one that was later at the press conference) in English, and was not understood by everyone.

Was also striking that the spokesperson did not repeat the statement in which he gave a summary at the end. Was it a slip of the tongue?

It raises questions about what might have happened:

Is rapidly declining unit then hit by a missile from the ground?

Or is it crashed due to a technical fault?

It indicates that the device is not, as claimed, the NIS would be. Shot out of the sky at once in any case

The survivor in question is his full name known to me, but would prefer to remain anonymous. In an additional phone call, he said that this had to do with his family. For them, the grieving process is currently more important than questions about how and what.

Here are the relevant excerpt from his mail correspondence with me:

"On the night of the crash, I was present at the airport when the survivor meeting. Here was little concrete information but what there was said;

The pilot has been in contact with a communications tower before it disappeared from radar. It was a "distress call" with the message that
the aircraft was in a rapid decline.

On departure, I checked it again and was confirmed by an employee that has had the pilot contact."
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According to the initial reports of which tracks all civilian
aircraft online, on Thursday, July 17 Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 Flight
MH17 from Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport to Kuala Lumpur Malaysia,
deviated significantly in altitude and route from all other commercial
flights, which since the outbreak of the civil war in eastern Ukraine in April
have flown south of the conflict region.

The key questions before giving blame to anyone, which have been
completely ignored by the Ukrainian government in Kiev, by the Obama
Administration in Washington, by most Western media, are why did the
pilot divert from his usual flight plan? Why did he fly above restricted
airspace? And just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the
pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?


Source: screenshot images from compiled by from
Vagelis Karmiros who collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked
by FlightAware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely
well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of
Azov, it was only July 17 MH17 tragic flight that passed straight overhead

Curiously, after the FlightAware data was initially published, the site
changed its version of the trajectory of MH17. Were they pressured
to do so?
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Please make these go viral:

9M MRD: MuRdureD.

How in-your-face can it get? [Switch the 9 around to get a Talmudic (Old Testament) 6.]

Medical warfare.

Not chemical. Not biological. Not nuclear. Not conventional.

MEDICAL WARFARE. That's a new one on me.

Hat tip to Southpark Fan; I guess the psychopaths have a new game, fuck me, even a new name.

Medical warfare.

It just sounds so scary.

But, I guess that's the idea.


Sounds scary.

Israel. Scarier.

Respect. OMG!

The scariest! ... free-zone/

Israel IS a free zone, no? Or do I mean Gaza? I mean Pal...

Isn't it curious how Times of Israel, Infowars and Vice all ape the same typographic style: ... free-zone/

Yeah, I know: I must be a f...

atm :lol:
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Christian Zionists.

Ron Paul.

Alex Jones

Gordon Duff.

All Joos.

Go figure.

All complicit.

And so we plague the game: ... -1.1900978

An honorary JEW... ... ew-dies-63

Count the six numbers.

atm 6
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<embed src="// ... &version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="480" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>
Flight MH17 Downed by Air to Air
Missile Strike and Canon Fire

A new Malaysian Air MH17 crash analysis, by The Russian Union of Engineers
has found that the aircraft was brought down by a fighter jet using
a combination of canon fire and an air to air missile.

The detailed report relies on analysis of debris photos and other evidence
to reach conclusions avoided by a recent interim official Dutch “crash report”.

The “analytical group” of experts from the Russian Union of engineers
included reserve officers with experience in the use of anti-aircraft missile
systems, as well as pilots having experience with aircraft weapons.

In the course of their analysis the experts used materials derived from
public sources, media and a computer simulation of an Su-25 jet fighter.

See extract and full report below:

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Fintan, dear friend

we knew this months' ago!

Jim Stone NAILED it:

I shan't waste my precious Internet time trawling through his interminable bloody website: you do it.

Here's something to get you back on track.

It'll have to do:

Beyond this is beyond me. I'm hoarse!

atm :!:
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As we see, they dropped the "missile" downing of the Boeing 777
like a hot potato, when it became clear that dog wouldn't hunt.

However, the relatives of the scores of dead Dutch passengers
will not be dropping the issue quite so fast. The stink smelleth.

I'm republishing the article below from Pepe Escobar's Facebook
timeline. I want to make it available to folks who don't use FB.
ImagePepe Escobar October 30 at 12:42pm


That's the title of the explosive book published yesterday
in Holland by journalist Joost Niemoller.

Only one of the major Dutch newspapers - De Volkskrant
- allowed Niemoller to talk about the book. Here's the translation:

"Three months after the attack, the discontent and frustration regarding MH17 in the Netherlands seems to increase more and more. The anger is aimed at the government, but the government appears to be unable to give satisfying answers about the perpetrator of the crash.

This was first manifested when Dutch FM Timmermans [on October 8] spoke about the oxygen cap that one of the MH17 victims was wearing.

Does the Dutch government know much more than it is willing to reveal?

Also a promise had been made by the government. No stone should be
left unturned, Dutch PM Rutte said on the day after the crash. But we s
till have not seen the other side of those stones. The government now
responds to parliamentary questions about the facts behind the attack by
saying: just wait for the results of the research.

This might mean a very long time of waiting. In a year, the Research
Council will publish a report which won’t say anything about the
perpetrator, because that does not fit with the intent of the Council.
The Public Prosecutor only mentioned that it has started the research
and that they are looking for further information on a rocket. But there
is no attention for real, structural, research problem created by this

The Netherlands, being the country that leads the international
investigation, has organized the research of both the Public Prosecutor
and the Research Council in a way that makes objective investigation
impossible in advance. This arises out of the course of events. Ukraine
was the first party to do the research. This is subject to international
agreements made by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

After several days of secret talks with Dutch FM Timmermans in Kiev,
the research was ‘delegated’ to the Netherlands, by means of a series of
appointments. The agreements that the Research Council made with Kiev
initially were not released, but after all, incidentally posted on the website
of the Council. Please note that this happened at the same time when the
Dutch government reported to the House of Representatives that those
agreements should not be made public yet.

Among other things those agreements include that Ukraine and the
Netherlands are committed to a complete exchange of information, that
they can force each other to secrecy
, and that Ukrainian researchers
should participate in the Dutch research. As for the agreements for the
Public Prosecutor, these became public thanks to the loose-tongued
Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuri Boychenko, who at a press conference
in Kiev on August 10 stated that the countries that have signed the deal –
except the Netherlands and Ukraine also Belgium, Australia and possibly
also Malaysia – have veto power over the conduct of the research.

So if Kiev does not like certain results, the actual research will be
cancelled. The Dutch government is silent about this deal with the
Public Prosecutor.

Dutch PM Rutte thus has made himself a puppet to Kiev. The research
may have only one outcome: the separatists have done it. Most Dutch
probably won’t care very much. The general belief is that it is the
separatists who shot down flight MH17 with a rocket. It only needs to
be proven. This also is the general tone in the media, which leads to a
tunnel vision. Every ounce that points in that direction, like a vague piece
in German newspaper Der Spiegel, feeds the hysteria: “We’ve got them,
those US satellite photos! It shows that the separatists did it!” Then why
we do not get to see them?

The fact that that piece did not mention satellite photos at all, but only
mentioned analyzes of satellite photos, and the fact that German tv
station ARD, which also leaked about the meeting, spoke of “plausible
options” that reportedly were secretly shared by the Secret Service with
members of the Bundestag in a German commission, was overlooked in
all the excitement. Comparable news and even facts pointing in the
direction of Ukraine as the perpetrator, are ignored by the Dutch media.

That’s what’s called tunnel vision.

The discontent can only grow. The deals between the Dutch government
and Kiev make it by definition impossible to investigate the site of the
crash and to secure evidence (with the exception of the bodies and some

The only thing the Public Prosecutor can do is study images on the
internet. Perhaps the metal particles found at the site of the crash will
be of good use. But even about that topic a mysterious silence prevails.

More generally, it is in any case the nature of these kind of attacks that
makes it impossible to identify the perpetrator. In the past sixty years it
happened twenty times that an airliner was shot from the air during a
military action, usually by accident, by a ground-to-air-rocket or a fighter
jet. In all cases things were settled outside the courtroom. Parties were bribed.

Even if there was no doubt about the evidence, like in 2001, when Ukraine
downed an airliner with a rocket. The political interests always prevailed
over the truth. The MH17 case won’t be an exception to this.

The frustration of the Dutch people does not play a role in international
politics. But the Prime Minister of Netherlands should not settle for that."
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A Mig 29 shoot down of MH17?

Check photo with Fotoforensics




"Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Buddha
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