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Chavez & Ahmadinejad Slam the New World Order
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Toto



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked Chavez's talk. Its like having a socialist friend. You may not agree with eveything they say but you agree with them more than the alternative.
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indigitydogdignation



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't suspicious of Chavez until he ballyhooed the UN general assembly. He was a little too conspicuous and it finally sunk in.

They always manage to give themselves away, somehow...
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

obeylittle,
I know that concurrent to the new SSP hemispheric plan, we have the rise of Chavez, and his relationship with made-for-tv radicals like Cindy Sheehan. And I heard that he apparently invited the thoroughly ludicrous Jimmy Walter for talks on 9-11.

I had wondered if these people might ALL be spooks --- in the spirit of that anonymous marcooper fellow mentioned by McGowan as a 'radical leftist' writer from The Nation writing in "Chilly", who was allegedly helping the CIA spy on Allende.

I didn't fashion Cindy Sheehan a spook. Seemed like someone more like Marita Lorenz, who was used by Operation 40 to try to seduce Castro, would be a better pick, but perhaps nowadays older divorcees who symbolically represent anti-Bush are the hot ticket.

I'll stop meandering. My understanding has been that while Chavez has taken criticism that he has not yet turned Venezuela into a paradise for the poor and has not yet completely reversed social relations, I think his diversion of oil revenues to grassroots cooperatives to help the poor has been at least partly successful, if not greatly successful. Kind of like a Venezuelan WPA. Maybe a little "National Emergency" thrown in for him to take more "Executive Authority", a la FDR ---> Bush.

Obviously, this revenue must come from actually selling the oil to buyers, refiners, distributors, some of the same unscrupulous people who would probably gladly chip in for another coup.

What proof do you have that he is really screwing over the poorest classes, as opposed to him harnessing whatever excess can be utilized to help the poor? What about his anti-IMF policies, and anti-Privatization policies? I'm willing to say that there's no Santa Claus, not even Chavez, but I'd like to see some more info.

As for Cuba allowing the US to hold Guantanimo Bay, I don't think Cuba has much of a choice. They probably decided that it was enough work to try to control the mainland, let alone an island (right ?) that the US claims is theirs.
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obeylittle



Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Middle o' Mitten, Michigan Corp. division of United States of America Corp. division of Global Corp.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert_g wrote:
obeylittle,
I know that concurrent to the new SSP hemispheric plan, we have the rise of Chavez, and his relationship with made-for-tv radicals like Cindy Sheehan. And I heard that he apparently invited the thoroughly ludicrous Jimmy Walter for talks on 9-11.

I had wondered if these people might ALL be spooks --- in the spirit of that anonymous marcooper fellow mentioned by McGowan as a 'radical leftist' writer from The Nation writing in "Chilly", who was allegedly helping the CIA spy on Allende.

I didn't fashion Cindy Sheehan a spook. Seemed like someone more like Marita Lorenz, who was used by Operation 40 to try to seduce Castro, would be a better pick, but perhaps nowadays older divorcees who symbolically represent anti-Bush are the hot ticket.


Well I think Sheehan is... whether she is an official intel spook or not, she IS playing the game among the intel gamers. Hers is a managed op with known spooks associated and directly involved. Many will disagree with me and that is good... because hers is one that should remain open to compilation of facts and discussion.

Quote:
I'll stop meandering. My understanding has been that while Chavez has taken criticism that he has not yet turned Venezuela into a paradise for the poor and has not yet completely reversed social relations, I think his diversion of oil revenues to grassroots cooperatives to help the poor has been at least partly successful, if not greatly successful. Kind of like a Venezuelan WPA. Maybe a little "National Emergency" thrown in for him to take more "Executive Authority", a la FDR ---> Bush.

Obviously, this revenue must come from actually selling the oil to buyers, refiners, distributors, some of the same unscrupulous people who would probably gladly chip in for another coup.


I would argue that the famous Chavez coup attempt was/is a staged misdirection. A planned and managed, enabling PsyOp on the people.

Quote:
What proof do you have that he is really screwing over the poorest classes, as opposed to him harnessing whatever excess can be utilized to help the poor? What about his anti-IMF policies, and anti-Privatization policies? I'm willing to say that there's no Santa Claus, not even Chavez, but I'd like to see some more info.


Oh I have no "proof" of anything, do you? I have only strong opinions based on a few years following the Central/South American storylines and events; and experience analyzing the ops and operators. My opinions are assembled, not formed by me alone. But these opinions are still mine nonetheless... The Chavez related events should be further researched and discussed until we can nail down the game, so lets keep it open.

Quote:
As for Cuba allowing the US to hold Guantanimo Bay, I don't think Cuba has much of a choice. They probably decided that it was enough work to try to control the mainland, let alone an island (right ?) that the US claims is theirs.


I don't agree with this hypothesis neither but I'm pleased that you find the relationship with Cuba somewhat pertinent. There is much to learn from Cuba.
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Rom



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To put it simple: Chavez is no us puppet

I haven't studied all Fintan's arguments, but he seems to rely heavily on Madsen being fake (mixed lojality is another possibility). That is circumstancial evidence

Fintan has got it completely wrong this time.

Any Castro friendship is what the Americans don't want
Any Iranian friendship is what the Americans don't want
Any eastern weapon purchase is what the Americans don't want
Any USA-bashing in UN is is what the Americans don't want
Any South-American trade union is what the Americans don't want
(the list can be tripled)
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Janama



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 410
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

most people don't seem to understand that Ahmadinejad does not control Iran.

from the CIA fact book

Quote:
chief of state: Supreme Leader Ali Hoseini-KHAMENEI (since 4 June 1989)
head of government: President Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD (since 3 August 2005); First Vice President Parviz DAVUDI (since 11 September 2005)
cabinet: Council of Ministers selected by the president with legislative approval; the Supreme Leader has some control over appointments to the more sensitive ministries
note: also considered part of the Executive branch of government are three oversight bodies: 1) Assembly of Experts, a popularly elected body of 86 religious scholars constitutionally charged with determining the succession of the Supreme Leader, reviewing his performance, and deposing him if deemed necessary; 2) Expediency Council or Council for the Discernment of Expediency is a policy advisory and implementation board consisting of permanent and temporary members representing all major government factions, some of whom are appointed by the Supreme Leader; the Council exerts supervisory authority over the executive, judicial, and legislative branches and resolves legislative issues on which the Majles and the Council of Guardians disagree; 3) Council of Guardians or Council of Guardians of the Constitution is a 12-member board of clerics and jurists serving six-year terms that determines whether proposed legislation is both constitutional and faithful to Islamic law; the Council also vets candidates for suitability and supervises national elections elections: Supreme Leader appointed for life by the Assembly of Experts; president elected by popular vote for a four-year term (eligible for a second term); election last held 17 June 2005 with a two-candidate runoff on 24 June 2005 (next to be held in 2009)
election results: Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD elected president; percent of vote - Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD 62%, Ali Akbar Hashemi RAFSANJANI 36%
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obeylittle



Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Middle o' Mitten, Michigan Corp. division of United States of America Corp. division of Global Corp.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An easily spotted problem that the phonies have, include an impatience trait manifest in the Execution of the Operations. In my opinion, this trait (or "signature") is what drives their failure/success ratios into the ground. This signature also dumps their covert Ops into the bright light of scrutiny for us. Always has.

I like to compare the products that the covert operators produce to the shoddy corporate products that we consume. Both are poorly engineered, requiring several revisions to become workable. Neither ever do work as designed. Both involve the services of too many incompetent people (and those with special interest "riders" attached), end-to-end, from the "idea" stages through the execution stages. Both are pushed through production cycles with impatience, leading many times to brute force tactical adjustments to the "target market". Both require extensive and elaborate cover ups following the production cycle aftermath to escape legal scrutiny. Both are... well, just undeniably shitty.

If the gov/corps and their military could slow down a bit, take the time to do things right, adjust operation cycles dynamically according to operational needs, rather than board-meeting demands, and involve only the brightest people, they could dominate the planet. But in the corporate intelligence environment failure is always dominant. Failure is imminent due to impatience and incompetence. It is their choice.

Thus, the performing fleas on the world made-for-TV stage, Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Bush et al, are easy to spot because they carry the covert Ops signature in clear view. No matter how pretty the packaging is or how brilliant the marketing strategy... the actors are too impatient and dumb, the products are still poorly engineered, poorly constructed and still suck. They are all failures of their own doing. So much for the value of the corporate product model.

Only nature produces real products like earthquakes, tornadoes, volcanoes, sunshine etc., that require respect of powers from humans. The gov/corps produce everything else we are asked to respect, worship and fear. Everything. If it didn't originate in the galaxy then the gov/corps did it. Period. It is the gov/corps that are suiciding themselves, not nature.

So, expect no mercy boys and girls of corruptionland... You are in the brightest light. Unlike you, I have patience. Unlike you, I have a permanent smile. I am watching you, patiently, smiling, as you insist, that you fuck off and die by your own hands!
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Rom



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take obeylittle as a denial regarding Chavez

Chavez is "the enemy" like Iran, Taliban, North Korea...
These conflicts are what is defining US goals, like WW II was the defining conflict at that time

Why Bush has done so little to solve "the Chavez problem" is puzzling some BBC correspondents, and me too. My feeling is that the Bush-advisors are messing up what used to be a well oiled machinery ... focusing so much on Iraq and Iran is turning US politics into backlash. Therefore there is so little activity regarding the Chavez problem
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obeylittle



Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Middle o' Mitten, Michigan Corp. division of United States of America Corp. division of Global Corp.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going back for another look now but yes, Chavez is a CIA mockup in my opinion. I doubt he will wander from the master and script. But since certain world power plays are going down in rapid succession now, I'm being honest and reopening the Chavez scam for a "now" look. He should start dancing now if he expects to make the big show.

Quote:
Chavez is "the enemy" like Iran, Taliban, North Korea...


"The Enemy"? Oh my gosh, business is business is business. And business is briskest in puppetland.

Quote:
These conflicts are what is defining US goals, like WW II was the defining conflict at that time


The US defines US goals, not their silly controlled assets. Do you really think the US would grant its powers of control, thereby attributing its "goals" in policy, to another country or "leader"? You take a big leap here... The US gives its power to no one.

Quote:
Why Bush has done so little to solve "the Chavez problem" is puzzling some BBC correspondents, and me too.


Can you say "Performing Fleas"? Connect the dots its easy. The BBC knows all about circus life, now you can too.

Quote:
My feeling is that the Bush-advisors are messing up what used to be a well oiled machinery ... focusing so much on Iraq and Iran is turning US politics into backlash. Therefore there is so little activity regarding the Chavez problem


Its called long-term planning to accomplish dominance, social and market control goals, via presidential appointments in your "enemy" governments. Its a well-oiled machine, you have that part correct. The lubricant is a patented secret so sacred it is only visible on televisions and in newspapers under the strictest of government control.

There is a flurry of activity, you just gotta pay attention to the ringmasters. Aren't you getting your tickets' worth yet? I am.
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Rom



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The readers should conlude by now ... the claim for Chavez as a "CIA-puppet" is = jumping to conclusions. No hard facts. I don't have to formulate facts for my claim. It goes without saying.

[quote]The US gives its power to no one.[/quote]
Neither technology nor CIA is omnipotent - big surprise
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obeylittle



Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Middle o' Mitten, Michigan Corp. division of United States of America Corp. division of Global Corp.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, everyone needs to take a look for themselves. And a belated welcome to the forum Rom!
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Rom



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan is overall a tremendous talent. Thanks :)
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