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NWO and the Battle for Europe
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James D



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 948

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MichaelC:
Quote:
I have rarely read such total bullshit/lies as the first paragraph cited above!


Really? Which part? If you click on the article each claim (in blue) is referenced. Is it just that you don't like it, maybe?

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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just that I have lived here in Barcelona for 15 years and I was present and witnessing the whole thing and what was described in the first paragraph did NOT occur.
Those who were arrested were arrested for serious crimes they had committed. There were no 'beatings', much of that was videos from other times and places. I just know that neither I nor anyone I know here witnesses any of the things described. Also, many many police were injured, police vehicles were destroyed, etc. Why is that not mentioned? I was amazed at the lack of respect for the police. Such behavior in the USA for example would result in a bullet in the head.
Nobody is a greater supporter than I am of breaking from the EU,except when the 'new government' would be even worse.
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James D



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 948

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The polling stations have just closed and these are the initial exit poll estimates -



67 for the pro-indendence parties (ERC/JxCAT/CUP)
29 for the unionist/loyalist parties (Cs/PSC/PP)
10 for the nuetral party (COMÜ PODEM)

Quote:
http://catalannews.com/politics/item/polls-close-in-historic-election

Polls close in historic election

At 8pm, voting ended for one of Catalonia’s most unprecedented elections

As the clock struck 8, polling stations for the December 21 Catalan elections closed. More than 2,500 of them were open at 9am, giving citizens 11 hours to line up to cast their ballots. And line up they did, with flooding the stations first thing in the morning.

Exit poll: Cs and Esquerra fight for first spot

According to exit polls published by the by Grupo Godó media corporation, Ciutadans and Esquerra would fight for the first place with 34-37 seats and 34-36 seats respectively. Pro-independence parties are likely to keep the majority in the chamber with 67-71 seats ( majority is 68 ), according to the estimation. In just two hours, at 10pm, more precise knowledge of the reelection results will already be known.
...

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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 7889

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Close result - with every seat counting!

Right now on Friday at 3pmEST / 8pmGMT
France24 has Live Election Coverage:


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James D



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 948

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

91.2% of the votes scrutinised at 11.00pm CET

Cs - 36
JxCAT - 34
ERC - 32
PSC - 17
COMÜN PODEM - 8
CUP - 4
PP - 4

Pro-Indendence parties - 70 seats with 47.5% of the vote
Pro-Unionist parties - 57 seats with 43.4% of the vote
Non-Aligned party - 8 seats with 7.3% of the vote

So a Pro-Independence parliamentary majority of 5
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James D



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 948

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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James D



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 948

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Catalan election dramatically reinforces mandate for independence
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com.es/2017/12/catalan-election-dramatically.html

With almost all the votes in, this looks like being the result -

Pro-independence parties: 70 seats
Anti-independence parties: 57 seats
Neutral party: 8 seats

Pro-independence parties: 70 seats
All others combined: 65 seats

PRO-INDEPENDENCE OVERALL MAJORITY OF 5 SEATS

The statistic that the Spanish government and EU leaders will cling to for dear life is that the pro-independence parties didn't quite manage 50% of the popular vote, but don't be fooled by that - the pro-indy camp have a lead of around four percentage points over all of the unionist parties combined. The neutral party's votes are the fly in the ointment, but there's no reason to doubt that they would break in both directions in the event of a binding independence referendum, making it overwhelmingly unlikely that the fabled "silent majority for Spanish unity" actually exists. The turnout was exceptionally high, so there's no excuse there - it's not so much a silent majority as a 'vanished from the face of the earth majority'.

Obviously it would have been preferable, and would have removed the last tiny vestige of uncertainty, if the three pro-indy parties had won an absolute majority of the votes. But let's be honest - even if that had happened, Spain would still be saying that independence is illegal, and the EU would still be sticking their heads in the sand. An absolute majority of seats is the more important thing from a strategic point of view, because it leaves Spain in an absolute pickle. The election was called so that the Catalan parliament would no longer be a 'rebel' body, but instead the status quo ante has been reinforced - the parliament will presumably now at least nominally continue to regard itself as the legislative body of an independent republic. Will Spain now turn a blind eye to that? Or will it call yet another election, and perhaps another one after that, and make itself look utterly ridiculous? Or will it indefinitely suspend the Catalan democratic institutions? All of those three options look untenable, and yet if Rajoy doesn't want to grant a binding independence referendum (or indeed to recognise the independence declaration that has already been made) he'll have to select one of them.

More to follow shortly...

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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EUREKA!
How could we miss it?

Madrid keeps only one Catalan embassy open - the one in Brussels.

The creepy guy with the Three Stooges haircut https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E33qzW4Qvr8
hides out in Brussels.......before you know it the master criminals (aka ECBEU) will welcome their newest debt-slave member:
The Republic of Catalunya, freshly loaded down with brand new Euro bonds!
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ManAtTheWindow



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 242
Location: Inverness, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all due respect, I find it hard to make sense of many of your observations so far, Michael. You appear to be unwilling to accept the idea that things might possibly take place without you seeing them.

I live in Scotland and I have my view of how our independence referendum played out. I don't, for one moment, believe that I know everything that happened nor do I think that anyone else in Scotland saw everything. I am certain that many people lied about many things and that there was grotesque media distortion and misrepresentation in full flow but not everything that was reported can be dismissed just because I didn't witness it.
And I've lived in Scotland for 56 years.

MichaelC wrote:
It's just that I have lived here in Barcelona for 15 years and I was present and witnessing the whole thing and what was described in the first paragraph did NOT occur.


Here's that first paragraph again.

Wings Over Scotland wrote:
Today, on the shortest day of the year, the people of Catalonia will vote in an election under the auspices of a brutally repressive government which has closed down their devolved parliament, imprisoned their democratically-elected leaders, viciously beaten hundreds of voters for no crime other than trying to vote, and banned almost all types of expression of public support for Catalan independence, including outlawing colours of the rainbow.


So you actually saw everybody NOT being beaten up? You saw all of them, all of the time and you can testify that they were all unharmed?
You've not seen any evidence of democratically elected leaders being imprisoned and therefore not one of them has been jailed?
Madrid has imposed no restrictions on the independence movement's freedom to express its position, further its campaign and articulate its arguments? None whatsoever?
Madrid, at no time, closed down the devolved parliament? Article 155 of the Spanish constitution was NOT invoked and, contrary to every report, Madrid did NOT impose direct rule on Catalonia? If any of this had happened, you'd have noticed, right?


MichaelC wrote:
Those who were arrested were arrested for serious crimes they had committed. There were no 'beatings', much of that was videos from other times and places.


Again, you saw all of the arrests? You know why everyone was arrested because, presumably, you witnessed them all?
Let's say, with regard to videos of 'beatings' and purely for the sake of the argument, that indeed "much of that was from other times and places". So, what about the rest of it then? By default, that footage must have been from this time and this place, i.e., when and where it was purported to have been recorded, right?
You seem to be content just to sweep that away because
(a) you didn't witness it yourself and
(b) you're prepared to happily accept that other videos of events you didn't witness either took place at a different time or location.

They can't have happened because...
MichaelC wrote:
I just know that neither I nor anyone I know here witnessed any of the things described.


Seriously, I genuinely can't understand that line of thinking.

I spoke with many Better Together campaigners during the Scottish referendum who sincerely felt the whole thing was disrupting their daily routine and future planning and who said that the sooner it was all over, the better. Fine, I can disagree with that but still respect their point of view. They weren't frightened to nail their colours to the mast.

Some simply felt British first and Scottish second. Horrific though that is, (I'm Scottish by way of Irish grandparents and have zero affinity with or affection for Britishness) I appreciate that that's just the way some people roll, God help them. But again, they had no problem stating how they felt.

Then there were the ones who feigned boredom or affected indifference to the whole debate. That was a code for saying they desperately hoped there would be no change but they didn't have the stomach to debate it or the spirit to justify their choice. They kept their heads down because they were generally only interested in their own immediate prospects and were understandably terrified of any change that might adversely affect them. At least I could figure them out even though I wasn't particularly impressed by their reluctance to actually stand up for what they wanted.

However, I really don't know what to make of someone who insists that nothing takes place unless he witnesses it himself.

MichaelC wrote:
Nobody is a greater supporter than I am of breaking from the EU,except when the 'new government' would be even worse.


Ah.

Okay, I get it now.

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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing, Man, and I admit that I may have exaggerated regarding things that I did not in fact have 100% actual knowledge of.

But the fact remains that the media coverage was overwhelmingly one-sided (Independence)and the fact that the media is owned/controlled by the usury master criminals(aka NWO/IMF/WORLDBANK/THE FED/B of E/ECB, ad nauseum) must be taken into account. They broadcast/print NOTHING that does not serve their own criminal $$agenda$$.

BTW, you see some of the eastern European ECBEU countries rebelling against the ECBEU. Maybe because they have experienced totalitarianism before and they recognize it again and don't want it.


Last edited by MichaelC on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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ManAtTheWindow



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 242
Location: Inverness, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MichaelC wrote:
Thanks for sharing, Man, and I admit that I may have exaggerated regarding things that I did not in fact have 100% actual knowledge of.

But the fact remains that the media coverage was overwhelmingly one-sided (Independence)and the fact that the media is owned/controlled by the usury master criminals(aka Fed, B of E, ECB) must be taken into account. They broadcast/print NOTHING that does not serve their own $$agenda$$.


That's cool, Michael. Nothing personal, you understand. I just felt that your version of the mood of the region was lacking objectivity but I'm happy to accept that you're recognising that yourself and I'll glady leave it at that.

FWIW, I absolutely agree with your overview that the NWO haven't fallen asleep and that they're still actively pushing events in their preferred direction. Nevertheless, I retain hope that they haven't successfully micromanaged every step along the way either and indeed I think that they've made a few miscalculations along the way.

For one thing, I firmly believe that they misjudged how close the Scottish referendum would prove to be and they suddenly realised they'd have to hit the emergency stop button by the time polling day approached. They called in debts from far more of their puppets than they'd initially budgeted for. Into the bargain, they totally blew the BBC's cover and many people suddenly realised for the first time its true status as the Establishment's propaganda machine.

I also believe that they underestimated Trump's chances of becoming POTUS. I'm just as certain that he was NOT on their list of acceptable winners. They were blindsided, outflanked and ambushed.

So, for all their dirty tricks, hidden stratagems and media manipulations, I think it's possible that they've mishandled the Catalonia business too. Not for want of effort and determination but for lack of judgement and competence. They could well be considerably less omnipotent and a damn sight more incompetent than we're supposed to believe they are. And they themselves might just be a lot less clever than they think they are.

I really don't think that they've been planning all along to inspire rises in nationalist sentiment in Spain, Scotland, the USA or anywhere else. So regardless of the fact that they still look as if they're directing the feature film, it may yet be that their efforts will be wasted because they didn't check to make sure that there's enough film in the movie cameras. Or something.

My general default position is
to try to figure out what potential development is not on the wishlist of the NWO;
identify who or what might put them under pressure on that issue;
support that in any way I can think of;
rinse and repeat.

It can only be one step at a time. An independent, republican Scotland that's not in the EU hasn't been offered as an option yet but I campaigned and voted for Scottish independence (in Europe and under the Crown) because it was a rejection of a completely unacceptable status quo and also because independence offers a chance that the other matters could become live issues in the foreseeable future. In the meantime, getting shot of London rule would be a great start, notwithstanding my reservations about many of the SNP's positions. If you can't solve all three problems simultaneously then solve them one at a time.

Likewise, Catalonia ridding itself of Madrid rule while keeping in with Brussels doesn't invalidate the entire separatist argument or indicate that everyone has been duped by the NWO. It keeps the pot boiling. The agents who bring about one change can be thanked for their contribution then replaced by others who are more likely to deliver the next change. And so on.

Sure, it would be nice to live to see the day when the mass of people look beyond their politicians and their national constitutions and their governments and start targeting the puppet masters instead of their puppets but there's a lot of ground that needs to covered before we reach that happy locus. That ground can and must be covered one step at a time. Whatever other problems it has still to resolve, Catalonia deserves a salute for taking one of the first, giant steps in the right direction.

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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2123

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a hopeful note, I read that Hungary has repaid all it's 'debt' to the master criminals (aka IMF) and is now issuing it's own currency direct from it's own Treasury... debt-free?
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