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The Battle for Europe: Greece, now Spain
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And so here we are.

A day from the most pivotal vote in 15 years.

The most important since Scots declared effective independence.

With much of the Western world asleep to the momentous implications.

Tonight Tspiras addressed huge crowds in Athens. The 'demos'








A few days ago PABLO IGLESIAS, leader of
Spain's Podemos gave a reality check:


"In my opinion, the IMF and the German government are attacking
democracy and the answer of Alexis Tsipras and the Greek people is
democracy, and that's the reason they're organising a referendum in
Greece. In my opinion the problem is not Greece, the problem is Europe.
Germany and the IMF are destroying the political project of Europe.


The big play today would have been to try
stack the opinion poll deck against the NO
-so we may as well disregard claimed polls.

Tick, tick, tick...
.
.

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Last edited by Fintan on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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stillsearchingtruth



Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy Power has already paid out on the Yes according to reports.
It's a yes vote which probably won't even come close. Yanis and Tsipras will be gone, the unity government will then have to sign on the line to compelling broken desperate people to stand still while bucket loads more faeces is thrown in their face.
I am happy to post on Sunday/Monday humbly admitting I was wrong but unfortunately I doubt that I will be
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I see. A two sentence analysis defeatist cynic.

So you were arguing that Yes will win. Ok.
I thought you were arguing that Syriza were a con.

Syriza should have accepted the shitty deal then?
But as they didn't accept the shitty deal then b'cos the
wealthy Yes will win - it's a shitty or even shittier deal.

And that's Syriza's fault.

And you can then claim credit for predicting what you yourself
have already posted earlier was "almost entirely predictable."

Quote:
stillsearchingtruth:
polls show a yes is more likely. That is almost entirely predictable
given that a week of no banks, restrictions on withdrawals

Wow - that IS smart!

Me, I'm too dumb.
I don't know who will win the vote.
And I never predicted who will win the vote.

Any tips on whether the Sun will come up tomorrow?

Or is that just too obviously predictable to try claim credit for? Laughing

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stillsearchingtruth



Joined: 22 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I stated was that the con was allowing it to go to a referendum.
It's not rocket science to realise that a week of the banks being closed creates a different climate of sentiment. Effectively the newly elected party are surrendering all of their cards and so presumably bye bye Tsipras and Yanis means bye bye Syriza too.
As for me being a cynic, not generally a cynic but when it comes to politics, you bet I am.
As for "credit" I will feel only more hardened anger should the Greek people be submerged even deeper in these waters which they are being drowned in.
This is a bigger test run, many notches up from Cyprus and in our backyard.
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Plato



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here come the bail-ins....

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9963b74c-219c-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html#ixzz3erKfhfoV

Quote:

Greek banks prepare plan to raid deposits to avert collapse

Greek banks are preparing contingency plans for a possible “bail-in” of depositors amid fears the country is heading for financial collapse, bankers and businesspeople with knowledge of the measures said on Friday.

The plans, which call for a “haircut” of at least 30 per cent on deposits above €8,000, sketch out an increasingly likely scenario for at least one bank, the sources said.

A Greek bail-in could resemble the rescue plan agreed by Cyprus in 2013, when customers’ funds were seized to shore up the banks, with a haircut imposed on uninsured deposits over €100,000.

It would be implemented as part of a recapitalisation of Greek banks that would be agreed with the country’s creditors — the European Commission, International Monetary Fund and European Central Bank.

“It [the haircut] would take place in the context of an overall restructuring of the bank sector once Greece is back in a bailout programme,” said one person following the issue. “This is not something that is going to happen immediately.”

Eurozone officials said no decision had been taken to wind up any Greek banks or initiate a bail-in of depositors, a process that would be started by the ECB declaring the banks insolvent or pulling emergency loans.

Greece’s banks have been closed since Monday, when capital controls were imposed to prevent a bank run following the leftwing Syriza-led government’s call for a referendum on a bailout plan it had earlier rejected. Greece’s highest court rejected an appeal by two citizens on Friday who had asked for the referendum to be declared unconstitutional.

Depositors can withdraw only €60 a day from bank ATM cash machines, while requests to transfer funds abroad have to be approved by a special finance ministry committee in co-operation with the Greek central bank.

Two senior Athens bankers said the country had only enough cash to keep ATMs supplied until the middle of next week. This followed the ECB’s decision this week not to increase Greece’s allocation of emergency liquidity assistance after the bailout programme ended on June 30.

The outcome of Sunday’s referendum will determine how quickly Greece wraps up a new bailout agreement with creditors, a top Greek banker said.

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if they Bail-In the Greeks that's gonna have EU-wide implications.

Greece is not Cyprus. The stakes are getting bigger by the day....

Quote:
stillsearchingtruth:
What I stated was that the con was allowing it to go to a referendum.
It's not rocket science to realise that a week of the banks being closed
creates a different climate of sentiment. Effectively the newly elected party
are surrendering all of their cards and so presumably bye bye Tsipras and
Yanis means bye bye Syriza too.

No. The referendum wasn't a con - it was genius.

The alternative being to implement savage austerity policies
that would loot Greece, fleece citizens and destroy Syriza.

Political Chess. Game On.
Greek Referendum:

Quote:

The Banksters response to that political chess move was to pull liquidity
(Target 2) funding from the Greek banks to generate a bank run.

And the natural defense was Syriza's move to close/limit the banks.

Now, strategically, bringing things to a head via referendum ended the
ongoing incremental Boiled Frog tactic of the banksters - which
loots your nation, day by day, but never in one too big move that might
rile you up enough to end the leeching. Geddit?

It's Like: no you fukn bully - no more stealing my lunch money every day.
Geddit?


You haven't been getting it. So excuse my inflammatory posts above.

You also need to get this topic thread:

Quote:
Scottish Independence
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7006

JamesD began the thread on 07 Mar 2013.

Eighteen months later, 18 Sep 2014 the SNP lost
the Scottish Independence Referendum. 55% - 45%
Quote:


According to your logic that should have been that. Over. Finito.

Wrong. Instead, this happened within 9 months:

Quote:
Well, well, well.
The People of Scotland Just Declared Political Independence!!!

By now it's clear we are headed towards potentially
ALL 59 of Scotland's 59 seats Going to the SNP!!!
It no longer matters about a new independence referendum.
That will be a mere formality. The Scots are Independent NOW!
It does not matter if the SNP hold a balance of power in the UK.
They hold ALL the Power in SCOTLAND!!




My congratulations to all Scots on
the rebirth of the Nation. Stunning.

So the SNP took the 'Indy' support
from 35% Pre-Referendum;
up to 45% At-Referendum;
and Victory at the UK election.

How - by exposing the tactics of their opposition for all to see.
That's what sickened people of all persuasions against the elite.

Note that moral issues trumped political issues by a huge margin.
Notice that immoral tactics were as big a negative as political stance.

My call : this is Syriza implementing the strategy of that SNP victory.

If we only see as far as the next vote or showdown, that's not Next Level.

But this IS the Next Level - And SYRIZA KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, dude.

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I wouldn't like any of the above analysis
to be interpreted as me saying Syriza are
about to lose the Referendum.

I don't know.

Mainstream narrative says Scots-style 45%-55%
My instincts say don't rule out 55% No.
The outcome could be in between.

The right hate the EU Elite as much as the left.
The young and the poor have nothing much left to lose.

Fear inhibits the old and privilege informs the Rich.

Unexpected things happen when it gets right down to the wire.
Pseudo-politics fades. Ground shifts. Old battle lines re-emerge. Wink

Either way. Let's just get it on:

Quote:
Let's get this started girl
We're moving up, we're moving up
It's been a lot to change
But you
will always get what you want

Took a little time to make it a little better
It's only going out, just one thing and another
You know,
you know

Took a little time to make it a little better,
It's only going out, just one thing and another
You know,
you know


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Last edited by Fintan on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:54 am; edited 4 times in total
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GREEK SOLIDARITY PROTESTS

4th July - Dublin



4th July - Dublin



4th July - Berlin



3rd July - Berlin



2nd July - Paris

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Greek authorities have move swiftly to deny a report that banks are planning to raid depositors’ funds to prevent the financial system from collapsing.

The Financial Times (£) reported that banks were preparing contingency plans to seize at least 30% of deposits holding more than €8,000.

The head of Greece’s Bank Association dismissed the report as “completely baseless.”

Louka Katseli, who also chairs the National Bank of Greece, told Skai TV that suggestions that authorities were planning a raid on deposits belonged “only in the sphere of fantasy.”

There are no such scenarios at any Greek bank, not even as an exercise on paper.

Rebuttals courtesy of Kathimerini

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Jimbo



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife was laughing in the other room where she was watching TV and she came in here to tell me what was so funny. There was this survey of random EU Europeans asking who they thought were the hardest working Europeans. They all chose the Germans except for the Greeks. They chose the Greeks. Then they asked who were the most trustworthy. Again the Germans were chosen except by the Greeks. They chose the Greeks. Then they asked who they thought were the laziest Europeans. They all chose the Greeks. The Greeks chose the Italians.
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

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Plato



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting take on Varoufakis, apparently nothing is what it apperas to be;

http://journal-neo.org/2015/07/03/what-stinks-about-varoufakis-and-the-whole-greek-mess/

Quote:
What Stinks about Varoufakis and the Whole Greek Mess?

Something stinks very bad about Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis and the entire Greek mess that has been playing out since the election victory of the nominally pro-Greek Syriza Party in January. I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that far from being the champion of the hapless Greek people, Varoufakis is part of a far larger and very dirty game.

The brilliant psychologist Eric Berne, author of the seminal book Games People Play, would likely call the game of Varoufakis and the Troika, “Rapo,” as in the rape of the Greek people and, ultimately of all the EU, Germany included. How do I come to this surprising conclusion?

When the left-right coalition was elected by a Greek population desperate for change from the several years of austerity, pension cuts, health and education cuts demanded by the IMF in order to insure that Greek creditors be repaid their pound of flesh in terms of state debt, I was among many who held out hope that finally a government that stood for the interests of her people was in office in Athens.

What we have witnessed since is what can only be called a clown show, one in which the laugh is on the Greek people and EU citizens as a whole. The ones laughing, as often is so, are the mega banks and Troika–ECB, IMF and EU. Behind the Troika, almost invisible, are the Greek oligarchs who have robbed the state coffers of hundreds of billions over the years, tucking it away in numbered Swiss and Lichtenstein secret bank accounts, avoiding paying a single penny tax to support their nation. And it is looking more and more as though the “leftist” economist, Varoufakis’s role is that of a Trojan Horse for the destruction of the entire Eurozone by the bankers and those Greek oligarchs. Next after Greece Italy looks poised to become victim, and that will put the entire Euro in a crisis that is today unimaginable.

Suspicious friends

A man is known by the company he keeps, so goes the adage. By this measure Yanis Varoufakis keeps very bad company for a finance minister who claims to be defending the living standards of his people. Before becoming Greek Finance Minister in the January coalition government of Alexis Tsipras, Varoufakis spent time in the United States working for the Bellevue Washington video game company, Valve Corporation, whose founders came from Bill Gates’ Microsoft. In the late 1980’s he studied economics and game theory in the UK at University of Essex and East Anglia and taught at Cambridge. Then he spent the next eleven years in Australia teaching and even taking Australian citizenship.

As an Australian citizen Varoufakis returned in 2000 to teach at the University of Athens. Then from January 2013 until his appointment as Finance Minister of Greece, Varoufakis taught at the University of Texas where he became close with James K. Galbraith, son of deceased Harvard economist, John Kenneth Galbraith, also with the Washington establishment think-tank, Brookings Institution. In short Varoufakis is an Australian citizen who has spent most of the past three decades in Britain, USA and Australia and little of that in his native Greece.

That of course per se does not disqualify him at all from being an honest and effective finance minister of his native Greece. But to date he has done more to increase the misery of the Greek people in six short months than almost anyone else, even Wolfgang Schäuble or the IMF’s Christine Lagarde.

He pretends to be against austerity but his record shows the opposite. Varoufakis was the adviser to Prime Minister George Papandreou and PASOK when Papandreou made the disastrous draconian austerity deal with the EU on behalf of Greece so that French and German banks could be bailed out. Varoufakis also has at various times heaped praise on Mario Draghi and the ECB, suggesting solutions for how to keep Greece in the EU, a track that pre-programs Greece for self-destruction under the current Troika regime of austerity.

In Varoufakis’ book on the EU financial crisis titled “A Modest Proposal,” he invited former French Prime Minister Michael Rocard to write the forward. Rocard has called for the EU to appoint a European “strongman”–read dictator–and Rocard’s choice is European Parliament president Martin Schulz, the very same man who warned the new SYRIZA government to abide by the austerity agreements concluded by the past PASOK and conservative governments. Varoufakis has repeatedly argued that Greece must “grin and bear” the measures imposed on it by the bankers and the German government as a member of the Eurozone. He has insisted that a Greek Euro exit is not going to take place.

With official Greek unemployment over 30% of the workforce and economic losses because of Troika-imposed budget austerity the government’s tax-revenue shortfall in January alone was 23% below its €4.5bn target for the month. The government in Athens has levied crippling taxes on the middle class and made sharp cuts to government salaries, pensions, and health-care coverage. While ordinary citizens suffer under the weight of austerity, now Banks are closed at least until the July 5 referendum on more austerity. Greece is a human catastrophe.

Strange acts

Were Varoufakis the man he pretends to be before his Greek countrymen, he would have set forth a strategy of Greek exit from the Euro and a strategy akin to that of Iceland to declare a debt moratorium, freeze all debt repayments to the Troika–IMF, ECB and EU. Then he would put Greece on a national currency, impose capital controls and seek strong economic ties with Russia, China and the BRICS countries.

Indeed, when Greek Prime Minister Tsipras was in St. Petersburg in mid-June to meet with Russian President Putin, Putin extended a very generous offer of prepayment of $5 billion towards the Greek participation in the Turkish Stream Gazprom pipeline.

That would have given Greece breathing room to service debt repayments to the IMF. Brussels and Washington of course were not at all happy with that. Putin then offered Greece membership in the new BRICS development bank which would allow Greece to borrow to get out of the worst of the crisis without more savage austerity. That of course would bring Greece closer to Russia and also to China, something Washington and Brussels oppose with all their might. But rather than accept, Greece and Varoufakis walked away from a solution that would have avoided catastrophe as it is now unfolding.

At this point it indeed looks as if Varoufakis’ role has been to act as the Western bankers’ Trojan Horse inside the Greek government, to prepare Greece and the Greek people for the slaughter, all the while posing as the tire-less fighter for Greek interests, all without a neck tie, of course.

As the former US Assistant Treasury and critic of the US foreign economic policies of recent years, Paul Craig Roberts recently described it, “Greece’s creditors, the EU and the European Central Bank…are determined to establish the principle that they can over-lend to a country and force the country to pay by selling public assets and cutting pensions and social services of citizens. The creditor banks then profit by financing the privatization of public assets to favored customers.The agenda of the EU and the central bank is to terminate the fiscal independence of EU member states by turning tax and budget policy over to the EU itself.”

Roberts goes on to state that the Greek “sovereign debt crisis” is being used to create a precedent that will apply to every EU member government. The member states will cease to exist as sovereign states. Sovereignty will rest in the EU. The measures that Germany and France are supporting will in the end terminate their own sovereignty. “

How did Greece and the European Union’s Eurozone countries get in such a crisis? The energy that vibrates through all of Europe right now is not of love for fellow human beings, but of hate. There is hate from the Germans against what they are convinced are lazy and tax-cheating ordinary Greeks. They have been fed that image by controlled mainstream media itself in turn controlled by the American oligarchs and their think-tanks. There is hate from the EU Commission and the EU leadership against Greece for creating what they see as the existential crisis of the EU. There is hate from German Chancellor Merkel for ruining her legacy, perhaps.

Above all, there is hate towards the Greek people from their own Greek oligarchs. The Greek oligarchy—shipping magnates, oil refinery owners, telecoms owners, media magnates, billionaires many times over—since the early 1990s, has dominated Greek politics. Greeks call them “diaplekomenoi”–the entangled ones. These elites have preserved their positions through control of the media and through old-fashioned favoritism, buying politicians like Yanis Varoufakis.

The Greek oligarchs, with their untaxed billions hidden in foreign bank accounts, are willing to see their own nation destroyed to hold on to their billions. That’s real hate. Those oligarchs are deeply ashamed of being Greek. That shame likely goes way way back, perhaps some 700 years, to the defeat and subjugation of Greece by the Ottoman Empire beginning in the 1360s. Maybe it’s time to move on from such childish feelings of hate.

First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2015/07/03/what-stinks-about-varoufakis-and-the-whole-greek-mess/


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