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psikeyhackr
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 71
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 Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Everything that man said is true, including the 70 air by volume. |
The man is full of crap.
He said the steel was 1 1/2 inches thick at the bottom.
It was FIVE INCHES THICK at the bottom.
See the 5th picture down.
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/eng-news-record.htm
How could he be involved with 9/11 analysis for years and not know that?
That is why I want the tons of steel and concrete specified on a level be level basis. It would make the changes very clear over the height of the building. It also makes sense for the people that want to bullshit to not express it that way but it makes them look obviously idiotic to not present the information in such a simple fashion.
The business with the air is idiotic drivel that only idiots would take seriously. It is probably true but totally irrelevant to the analysis. An office building is constructed to have usable space and it is not held up by air.
psik
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Grumpy
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 876
Location: NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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psikeyhackr
NIST gives you the exact dimensions of every piece of core columns and outer frames.
The individual floors were attached to the inner core and the outer framework and were the exact same strength, holding up only the weight of each floor(+live loads+safety factor of ~2), not the floors above them(only the core and outer frame carried vertical loads, and only core beams and outer frame steel grew thicker as it went down).
Grumpy 
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psikeyhackr
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | NIST gives you the exact dimensions of every piece of core columns and outer frames. |
So you claim. Why don't you provide the quote and page number?
My point was that Dr. Sunder Dunderhead who should know what he is talking about is way off on his public distribution of information. The NIST report says the columns had steel up to 7 inches thick but I could not find 4 or 5 inches in the report which is what everyone else says. Dunderhead said 1 1/2 inches on PBS.
NIST NCSTAR 1-1 PDF p73 (offset 62)
| Quote: | Core Columns
As stated above, the core columns were designed to support approximately 50 percent of the gravity loads. The core columns were of two types: welded box columns and rolled wide flange shapes (Fig. 2–11). The columns in the lower floors were primarily very large box columns, as large as 12 in. by 52 in., comprised of welded plates up to 7 in. thick. In the upper floors, the columns shifted to the rolled wide-flange shapes. The transition floors are indicated in Fig. 2–12 for each of the core columns. Core columns were typically spliced at three-story intervals. Diagonal bracing was used at the mechanical floors and in the area of the hat truss. Steel used for core box columns was either 36 ksi or 42 ksi. Core wide flange columns were specified to be one of four grades, but were primarily 36 ksi and 42 ksi steel; only about 1 percent of all the core columns were made of 45 ksi or 50 ksi steel. |
NIST NCSTAR 1-3D PDF p40 (offset 34)
| Quote: | 1.2.2 Core Columns
Core columns were of two types: welded box columns and rolled wide flange (WF) shapes. Fig. 1–3 shows some examples of the shapes of core columns. In the lower floors, the core columns were primarily very large box columns, as large as 12 in.×52 in. with plates up to 7 in. thick. In the upper floors, the columns were primarily rolled wide-flange shapes. Like the perimeter columns, the core columns were typically spliced at three-story intervals. Core box columns were specified with Fy = 36 ksi or Fy = 42 ksi. Core wide-flange columns were specified to be one of four grades, but were primarily Fy = 36 ksi and Fy = 42 ksi steel.
(diagram here)
Note: To scale.
Figure 1–3. Typical welded box columns and rolled wide-flange shapes used for core columns between the 83rd and 86th floors. |
psik
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Grumpy
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: NC USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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psikeyhackr
He obviously was talking about the columns in the OUTER FRAME. They were 14"X14" and had wall thicknesses approximately as the good DR. stated.
Grumpy
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psikeyhackr
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| Grumpy wrote: | psikeyhackr
He obviously was talking about the columns in the OUTER FRAME. They were 14"X14" and had wall thicknesses approximately as the good DR. stated.
Grumpy |
And how would anyone know that just from what he said, and how many of those columns were ther. At best it is misleading with inadequate but correct information in addition to talking about the 70% air that didn't hold the building up.
Convince the dummies with BULLSHIT!
psik
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Grumpy
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: NC USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
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psikeyhackr
| Quote: | Convince the dummies with BULLSHIT!
psik |
That doesn't seem to be working, I haven't convinced you.
Grumpy
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O dear, taken to drinking and swallowing the pain tablets together eh Grumpy? aAzzAa |
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Peter
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2275
Location: The Canadian shield
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: At your service? |
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| Grumpy wrote: | psikeyhackr
| Quote: | Convince the dummies with BULLSHIT!
psik |
That doesn't seem to be working, I haven't convinced you.
Grumpy |
Hey Grump-meister....who was your "straight-man" when you were doing your "shtik" at school?
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psikeyhackr
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | That doesn't seem to be working, I haven't convinced you. |
That is because you can't figure out that YOU ARE THE DUMMY.
Like it is possible to build a skyscraper without figuring out the TONS of STEEL & TONS of CONCRETE to put on every level of the building during the design stage. So SIX YEARS after the collapse the EXPERTS don't talk about such simple information. How long before they figure out they make themselves look like idiots by not bringing it up.
Laymen are supposed to be dummies that can't think of the obvious and just take their word.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kUICwO93Q
That model is too complex and expensive for our engineering schools to build. ROFL
psik
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Grumpy
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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psikeyhackr
| Quote: | | Laymen are supposed to be dummies that can't think of the obvious and just take their word. |
All of the information that you say was/is not available can be found [irl=http://wtc.nist.gov/]here[/irl]. If you are too incompetent to find it, that does not mean it isn't there.
Grumpy
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O dear, taken to drinking and swallowing the pain tablets together eh Grumpy? aAzzAa |
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psikeyhackr
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | All of the information that you say was/is not available can be found [irl=http://wtc.nist.gov/]here[/irl]. If you are too incompetent to find it, that does not mean it isn't there. |
Pure unadulterated BULLSHIT!!!
Provide links and quotes to the tons of steel on level 80, 81 and 82 for either tower.
Why do no other sources ever specify that in SIX YEARS?
psik
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RockDock
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Grumpy wrote: | psikeyhackr
| Quote: | | Laymen are supposed to be dummies that can't think of the obvious and just take their word. |
All of the information that you say was/is not available can be found [irl=http://wtc.nist.gov/]here[/irl]. If you are too incompetent to find it, that does not mean it isn't there.
Grumpy |
Too bad that Grumpy is too incompetent (or maybe just too stupid??) to be able to construct an URL link. Besides that, the nist.gov site does not have any tonnages of steel and concrete per floor. None that I could find anyway.
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RockDock
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Come on Grumpy. psikeyhackr and I want to know EXACTLY where in the NIST report are these numbers that correspond to the weight of the steel and concrete on each floor?
Sections and page numbers please Mr. Science.
Grumpy, you are so full of shit your eyes must be brown.
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Fuck your yellow ribbon
If you want to
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Grumpy
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: NC USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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RockDock
Since you are incompetent to do your own research(or maybe just too stupid)...
Floor area in the core = 862 m^2
Office space floor areas:
2 long one-way slabs = 1,225 m^2
2 short one-way slabs = 486 m^2
4 two-way slabs = 1,137 m^2
Total office area = 2848 m^2
The floors in the core areas were made of normal weight concrete, it's density is 1760 kg/m^3
The floors in the office areas were made of lightweight concrete, it's density is 1500 kg/m^3
Volume of 5-inch normal weight concrete per floor = 109.5 m^3
Weight of the normal weight concrete per floor = 193 tons
Volume of 4-inch thick lightweight concrete per floor = 289.4 m^3
Weight of the lightweight concrete per floor = 434 tons
Total weight of the concrete on one floor of WTC 1 = 627 tons.
In addition, the mass of structural steel on one floor is estimated to be 1000 tons(average per floor taking total steel and dividing by 110) Higher floors had slightly less, lower floors slightly more by about 20-30% either way from the 55 floor.
All the values used to do this calculation were gleaned from the study of navstar1-1. As to exactly where each of these values are in that document, find them yourself, the exercise will do your brain some good.
Grumpy
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O dear, taken to drinking and swallowing the pain tablets together eh Grumpy? aAzzAa |
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RockDock
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Grumpy wrote: | RockDock
Since you are incompetent to do your own research(or maybe just too stupid)...
<snip>
All the values used to do this calculation were gleaned from the study of navstar1-1. As to exactly where each of these values are in that document, find them yourself, the exercise will do your brain some good.
Grumpy |
Navstar1-1 eh? And this document is held in the nist.gov site that you tried to link to is it? Funny, I can't seem to find it there. Are you unwilling to provide a link directly to the figures you quote, or just incapable?. And if unwilling, why is that?
You also are giving us interpolated averages for the floors. Psikeyhackr wanted specific numbers for each floor, numbers that you asserted are within the nist.gov site that you posted.
Your numbers are approximations and as such are meaningless. You are asserting that the 54th floor had the same mass as the 3rd floor. Yet the 56th floor has a mass equal to the 110th floor.
Yep, you sure are scientific.
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There are souls in the boots
Of the soldiers America
Fuck your yellow ribbon
If you want to
Support your troops
Bring them home
And hold them tight
When they get here
-Andrea Gibson - For Eli |
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Grumpy
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 876
Location: NC USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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http://wtc.nist.gov/reports_october05.htm
NIST NCSTAR 1-1: Design, Construction, and Maintenance of Structural and Life Safety Systems
NIST NCSTAR 1-2: Baseline Structural Performance and Aircraft Impact Damage Analysis of the World Trade Center Towers
NIST NCSTAR 1-3: Mechanical and Metallurgical Analysis of Structural Steel
NIST NCSTAR 1-4: Active Fire Protection Systems
NIST NCSTAR 1-5: Reconstruction of the Fires in the World Trade Center Towers
NIST NCSTAR 1-6: Structural Fire Response and Probable Collapse Sequence of the World Trade Center Towers
NIST NCSTAR 1-7: Occupant Behavior, Egress, and Emergency Communication
NIST NCSTAR 1-8: The Emergency Response Operations
You can lead a jackass to water, but you can't teach them a damn thing
Grumpy
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Wheel yourself out in the streets and demand the truth from these dumbshits.
O dear, taken to drinking and swallowing the pain tablets together eh Grumpy? aAzzAa |
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