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Moon Landing Hoax
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noplacebo



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 188

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never went to uni, I never got de educated I only see what I see, and the shit I hear tells me, either I'm stupid (very very possible) or the people who read the books nowadays aren't looking and thinking for themselves.
Anyway space is a vacuum, that is cold and pitch dark. Without atmosphere, which is matter, to bounce off, there is no light or heat.
So in space there is no light or heat, it is pitch dark and zero kelvin, 256 below or somethin. The suns rays are turned to heat and light in our atmosphere, and testimony to that is other things like a red sun low in the sky etc. So why is the sun supposed to be white hot when no heat comes from it to us, or light. Our atmosphere creates these. The sun could be cold and dark.
And after all the other shit if discovered through the help of fellow questioners, disbelievers I wouldn't be feckin surprised.
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je-demande



Joined: 26 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noplacebo wrote:

Anyway space is a vacuum, that is cold and pitch dark. Without atmosphere, which is matter, to bounce off, there is no light or heat.
So in space there is no light or heat, it is pitch dark and zero kelvin, 256 below or somethin. The suns rays are turned to heat and light in our atmosphere


The Solar system is full of planets some warm some cold depending how near.... etc

Earth is "Protected by" our atmosphere (and the Van Allen Belts etc)

so in space any "Matter" is much more Vulnerable than on Earth or even.....

"Over the course of a full lunar day and night, the temperature on the Moon can vary wildly, from around +200 to -200 degrees Celsius (+392 to -328 degrees Fahrenheit), so it’s natural to wonder how lunar astronauts survived this huge temperature variation.

The first thing to know is that all trips on to the Moon’s surface were carefully planned for lunar dawn, to ensure the surface hadn’t had time to heat up fully to its daytime temperature. It is also important to think about how heat can be transferred to astronauts on the lunar surface.

There are three ways heat can transfer and only two are possible on the Moon. The first is radiation, both directly from the Sun and from the Sun’s reflection on the surface. The astronauts’ spacesuits were designed to reflect almost 90% of the light that reaches it, so very little heat would have transferred to the astronauts.

The second is by conduction from the direct contact their feet had with the surface. This is also an ineffective process as regolith on the lunar surface doesn’t conduct heat well and the astronauts’ boots were insulated, slowing down conduction even further. This shows that even though huge temperature variations occur on the Moon, lunar astronauts were never actually exposed to them"


https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/why-do-planets-have-magnetic-fields/

I say any Space Ship without the protection of Earths atmosphere etc and isolated in a vacuum with nowhere for the heat to go would soon become far too hot within a couple of minutes of direct sunlight to sustain life. The heat of the the sun on matter is admited and undeniable while the obvious catalizing effect space's Vacuum would have on matter in the Sun is ignored.

Southpark Fan wrote:
Space shuttle goes 200 mi up. ISS is 200 mi up...Everyone has seen the rockets used....the moon is 270 000 mi away.

Not enough fuel. The rocket needed would be yuge.

You will never see humans on the moon....never.


I hear ya but some will say the Pay load was greater on the Shuttle blah blah! And as for that Clown De Grasse Tyson - Kennedy during his speech Believed they would try to go to the Moon and so did NASA until during the Gemini Missions when they realized categorically that Life couldn't survive above 400 odd mile. It was only then after realizing this that they decided to fake it. - So fuck all them Strawmen idiots.

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Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: d=1/2 at2 Reply with quote

Velocity is a function of acceleration. Beyond earth's gravity pull, even small forces at high velocity can accelerate a large mass. The moon and planets (nay stars) are within reach with the time required to reach tham being the main impediment.
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Peter



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Shine on, you crazy diamonds Reply with quote

As for the heat of the sun's radiation, if you step on a surface it is no longer insolated so no more heat. Albedo and reflectiviry are key. Think at the molecular level and it becomes easier the follow the logic.
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je-demande



Joined: 26 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: Shine on, you crazy diamonds Reply with quote

Peter wrote:
As for the heat of the sun's radiation, if you step on a surface it is no longer insolated so no more heat. Albedo and reflectiviry are key. Think at the molecular level and it becomes easier the follow the logic.

If there is no atmosphere to protect an object it will heat up much hotter in space, it has to. If someone climbs inside a metal box it simply becomes part of its thermal mass and for a short period it may lower its temp but ultimately the object will reach the temperature of the sunlight hitting it within a few short minutes. Space beyond Earth's atmosphere is by approximation a vacuum, but if we speculate that solar wind particles, cosmic rays, cosmic microwaves, background radiation. dark matter, or even neutrinos do in fact exist I'm guessing they will fry you a more golden Hot Wing shade than the Sunlight will.

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Peter



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: h=uV Reply with quote

With wavelength, size (amplitude) does matter, as does frequency. In a spacecraft (box) one outside surface heats while the opposite side is icy cold. Cooling systems transfer heat from one side to the other to maintain an acceptable medium value. Gamma and cosmic rays hardly see the walls (except for lead sheathing that has a greater nuclear cross-section that shields the occupants) and it is their occasional collisions with our chromosomal nuclei that cause all the damage.
Space is a harsh environment but our atmosphere is both a shield and a blanket as well as a cooling/heating recirculating system. That heat comes from convection mostly and not from the atmosphere because it is busy expanding or contracting as per pV=nRT. (High-school physics.)

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je-demande



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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject: Re: h=uV Reply with quote

Peter wrote:
With wavelength, size (amplitude) does matter, as does frequency. In a spacecraft (box) one outside surface heats while the opposite side is icy cold. Cooling systems transfer heat from one side to the other to maintain an acceptable medium value.


With respect I feel wavelength, (amplitude), frequency etc may matter in a Physics class, the Point I am trying to make is so fundamental I feel its better to use lay mans terms were possible.

In Space Sunlight could be viewed as a space weapon were energy is sent laser like in the form of heat(& light) from the Sun (an object in Space) to another "Object in Space". (In this case a metal Box)

Shadow in space however is simply a lack of Sunlight and not some Negative Energy Beam from a Dark Star making things cold.
So for the shaded side to have any effect at all in Space(A Vacuum) it requires transpherence from another cold object via some kind of "Negative energy Beam" if such a thing even existed.

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Peter



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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: h=uV Reply with quote

je-demande wrote:
Peter wrote:
With wavelength, size (amplitude) does matter, as does frequency. In a spacecraft (box) one outside surface heats while the opposite side is icy cold. Cooling systems transfer heat from one side to the other to maintain an acceptable medium value.


With respect I feel wavelength, (amplitude), frequency etc may matter in a Physics class, the Point I am trying to make is so fundamental I feel its better to use lay mans terms were possible.

In Space Sunlight could be viewed as a space weapon were energy is sent laser like in the form of heat(& light) from the Sun (an object in Space) to another "Object in Space". (In this case a metal Box)

Shadow in space however is simply a lack of Sunlight and not some Negative Energy Beam from a Dark Star making things cold.
So for the shaded side to have any effect at all in Space(A Vacuum) it requires transpherence from another cold object via some kind of "Negative energy Beam" if such a thing even existed.


In layman''s terms, conditions in space are fatal to humans. The physics allows us to envisage the alternatives. Experiencing them would solve your incredulity....at quite the cost to you personally. Happily, the physics allows man to protect himself from those conditions. Sunburn comes from the sttenuated power of sunlight. Skin cancer from longer term exposure. No sun, no such problems, n'est-ce pas?

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je-demande



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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: h=uV Reply with quote

Peter wrote:

In layman''s terms, conditions in space are fatal to humans. The physics allows us to envisage the alternatives.


I would prefer "Astro Phyics" allows us to "guess" at certain dynamics.

Peter wrote:

Experiencing them would solve your incredulity....at quite the cost to you personally. Happily, the physics allows man to protect himself from those conditions. Sunburn comes from the sttenuated power of sunlight. Skin cancer from longer term exposure. No sun, no such problems, n'est-ce pas?


You are now generalising Peter IYDMMSS = I was quite specific.

je-demande wrote:
Heat....... They say its 250 in the Sun and minus similar in the Shade as if those two equal themselves out.

OK ...... Problem is Space is like a massive thermos flask thats right "a huge vacuum" So if we have a piece of metal in space it almost imediately goes to 250 degrees with no way of cooling down because it is in a Vacuum


I think my point specifically is that once heat is transferred via waves of sunlight from the sun to an object in space there is very little way for this heat to dissipate because it is in a vacuum.

Sunlight is "Heat Transpherence"

Being in the shade in a Vacuum isn't "Heat Transference"

Thats my point. - Tu comprends?

Even low earth Orbitting Satelites are problematic enough but of course they are unmanned.

Manned Deep Space in 1969? - I think not. :-)

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ManAtTheWindow



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

je-demande wrote:
ManAtTheWindow wrote:
je-demande wrote:
Heat....... They say its 250 in the Sun and minus similar in the Shade as if those two equal themselves out.

OK ...... Problem is Space is like a massive thermos flask thats right "a huge vacuum" So if we have a piece of metal in space it almost immediately goes to 250 degrees with no way of cooling down because it is in a Vacuum.. ...

dare I say game over je m' demande?


what point it is that you think you're making and why it's "game over."
Would you mind stating your point more clearly please?


The point is when an object heats up in Space it has nowhere for the heat to dissipate to,

Remember you can reflect part of the heat within a certain range but the Heat has nowhere to go and will therefore be above 200 before long with no prospect of it going anywhere meaning Space Travel is reduced to well shield Machines only certainly not humans.

"Game Over" is simply an over the top sarcastic brain fart and should not be taken literally.


Cool, I don't have any issue with "game over" not being literal. I'm just trying to figure out what way you're thinking about this so that I can try to address it. Smile

Okay, I get the impression that you're thinking that, in the vacuum of space around our planet, the temperature of any surface exposed to the Sun more or less immediately shoots up to hundreds of degrees Celsius and it will stay at that temperature unless it encounters some cooling medium? It doesn't really work like that though.
It seems to me that you're probably not appreciating that there are three different ways in which heat is transferred - convection, conduction and radiation. True, convection doesn't apply in a vacuum. But the piece of metal in your example can still conduct and radiate.

Bear in mind that if there was nowhere for the heat to go, there wouldn't be any way for it to arrive either. Wink

The Sun is radiating electromagnetic energy and when that energy meets the (bright) surface of the metal some of it will be absorbed, produce heat and raise the temperature at that surface (although a good part of the electromagnetic energy will also be simply reflected away again.) But metal, of course, is a very good conductor and the energy will quickly be transferred from the surface to every other part of the metal, (including the dark surfaces which aren't receiving any energy directly from the Sun). So the metal will radiate energy from every surface in every direction while it's only receiving energy from one direction.
Given that the temperature of the space surrounding the metal is less than 4 degrees Kelvin above absolute zero, the temperature gradient between that and the metal is very steep. That means that the metal will radiate energy away from itself at a very high net rate in every direction other than the small field which is absolutely square to the sun.
It's a bit like water rolling down a high hill - if you were pouring hundreds of gallons per minute onto the summit, the top would certainly get very wet but the water is instantly running away, spreading itself wider and wider and thinner and thinner as it runs down the slope, and the lower reaches could still be bone dry.

Down here on Earth, we tend not to think much about heat loss through radiation because convection is such a major factor in heat exchange, but radiation still plays a significant part. (For instance, infra-red cameras detect heat loss via radiation of electromagnetic energy just below the visible light wavelengths.) That energy would still radiate away from its source regardless of whether it's in our atmosphere or in a vacuum.



Edit: My mistake - I hadn't noticed that this discussion had run on to another page when I hit reply so I didn't see the follow up exchanges. Oops! Embarassed Anyway, I'll leave my reply as it is, even though Peter has made some of the same points.

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Peter



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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: The heat of the moment... Reply with quote

We also tend to conflate heat with temperature. Heat radiation is just EMF in the infra-red wavelength. Temperature is the sensible measure of the heat of a given system (more or less). Think of that stove top burner going from dark (cool) to still dark but quite "hot" to dull red and then bright red as it gets "hotter".
Not being able to perceive (or really appreciate) the vibratory nature of our reality sows confusion. We need to tread carefully when we are out of our area of expertise. Wink

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ManAtTheWindow



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: The heat of the moment... Reply with quote

Peter wrote:
We also tend to conflate heat with temperature. Heat radiation is just EMF in the infra-red wavelength. Temperature is the sensible measure of the heat of a given system (more or less). Think of that stove top burner going from dark (cool) to still dark but quite "hot" to dull red and then bright red as it gets "hotter".
Not being able to perceive (or really appreciate) the vibratory nature of our reality sows confusion. We need to tread carefully when we are out of our area of expertise. Wink


Quite. A thing from school physics lessons that's always stuck with me - there's more heat in an ice cube than there is in the flame of a cigarette lighter.

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Last edited by ManAtTheWindow on Thu May 04, 2017 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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