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lyspy
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 98
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 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: Liège: 6 Dead In Belgium Gun Grenade Attack |
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Reports of up to 175 injured also in a gun and grenade attack, committed according to early MSM reports, by a lone gunman...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16161746
Another Right Wing 'Crusader'?
Early reports also say Belgian authorities claim incident not linked to terrorism. |
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starviego
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Lone gunman my ass:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/8953711/Belgium-grenade-attack-live.html
--Shots were fired across the square by gunmen posted on the rooftop of a bakery shop, with further shots heard later from across town.
--There is at least one dead and the attacker. Police are looking for another shooter.
-- Gaspard Grosjean has spoken over the phone to Telegraph TV. He says the first attacker was shot by the police and is now dead.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/13/world/europe/belgium-attack/index.html?hpt=ieu_c1
The provincial governor's office initially said that police were searching for at least one suspect.(1 dead+1 suspect = 2)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073578/Belgium-grenade-attack-4-killed-75-injured-Liege.html#comments
In the initial chaos, reports said up to three men had taken part in the attack, but the Interior Ministry later confirmed only one was involved, adding the incident was not terrorism-related.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16161746
Belgian media ... say several men threw grenades and fired on a crowd at a bus stop.
Some reports say one of the attackers is among the dead. Local media said another had been seized by police but gunfire was continuing.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/0,1518,803452,00.html
The TV channel RTL-TVI reported three men were thrown grenades. This was stated by the police but so far neither confirmed nor denied. On the hunt for a suspected accomplice, it was several hundred meters from the Place Saint-Lambert came to a shootout between police and fugitives"...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread785527/pg2
The latest is that there were three attackers, one killed himself by gunshot to the head, another was arrested and the third is still on the run.
http://cdnmo.coveritlive.com/media/image/201112/phpcmgBGKarta.jpg
pic of handcuffed suspect?
pic of unexploded grenade
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073578/Belgium-grenade-attack-4-killed-75-injured-Liege.html#comments
--The police source said Amrani’s rucksack was ‘full of grenades’
Grenades have serial numbers. They will have to trace where he got these weapons. But of course they will try to avoid this question as long as possible.
GLADIO has reawoken in Belgium! From the same crowd that produced the Brabant Supermarket massacre and the Marc Dutroux scandal.
_________________
"You've got to be able to move quickly if you're running from Feds or special ops."
--Jeff Weise, Red Lake, MN
Last edited by starviego on Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8163
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | With local bloggers and Twitter networks switching into overdrive,
there were detailed "reports" on the alleged trio who had supposedly
carried out the attack, with one said to have been arrested and the
other allegedly fleeing through a bus tunnel after spraying the square
with Kalashnikov fire.
Police said these reports were entirely inaccurate...... |
| Quote: | 
Liège attack: death toll climbs to six – including 'gun freak'
Man named as Nordine Amrani threw hand grenades and shot at
crowds of Christmas shoppers, wounding dozens, in Belgian city
Ian Traynor in Brussels
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 13 December 2011 20.34 GMT
A convicted gun fanatic threw hand grenades and opened fire on a square bustling with Christmas shoppers in the centre of the Belgian city of Liège, killing at least six people, including himself, and wounding dozens, some critically.
Hours after failing to show up for police questions about his preoccupation with guns, the 33-year-old unleashed a lunchtime attack on Place Saint Lambert, which was hosting a Christmas market that attracts 1.5 million visitors a year.
Last night King Albert II and Queen Paola visited Liège, a tough, post-industrial city in the east of the country, which was in a state of shock after the attack. Initial fears that a trio of terrorists could be responsible were ruled out by police and prosecutors, as was speculation that Belgium could be contending with a Norway-copycat killing spree.
"It was an isolated act which has sown sorrow in the heart of the city," said Willy Demeyer, the mayor of Liège, the main city in Belgium's francophone smaller half, Wallonia.
Police said there were no indications that the dead assailant, a local man, had been involved with terrorism. Nor was there evidence of any ideological motivation for the murders.
The gunman threw three hand grenades on the busy square, one at a bus shelter, killing two teenage students instantly.
An elderly woman died later of her injuries, as did a 23-month infant and a 20-year-old man.
The Liège prosecutor's office said 75 people were injured [now stands at 123] in the shootings and explosions, with many of them reported to be in a grave condition in local hospitals and in the Netherlands next door.
The gunman was named as Nordine Amrani, a 33-year-old Liègeois who was known to be a "gun freak", according to the police. He was given a jail term of almost five years after police officers raided his metal workshop three years ago and found a dozen firearms, including an AK-47 machine-gun, and 9,500 gun parts. He was also found guilty of drug dealing after cultivating 2,800 marijuana plants.
Amrani arrived on the square with hand grenades, a rifle and a revolver.
He mounted a platform on the square and lobbed three grenades, opened fire with the rifle and then shot himself with the handgun, according to police.
With local bloggers and Twitter networks switching into overdrive, there were detailed "reports" on the alleged trio who had supposedly carried out the attack, with one said to have been arrested and the other allegedly fleeing through a bus tunnel after spraying the square with Kalashnikov fire.
Police said these reports were entirely inaccurate.
Place Saint Lambert is the city centre's busiest traffic hub and the location of the bus station as well as the Palais de Justice, which houses the main court and prison compound. Witnesses spoke of panic and blood-spattered streets as mayhem erupted at about 12.30.
Hervé Taverne, a middle-aged man working in the district, told Belgian radio: "We were just coming out of the justice building and we saw someone throwing a hand grenade. It all happened so quickly that we ran for our lives. I grabbed a youngster inside, back into the building.
"After that various wounded were brought in. We heard gunshots outside. Meanwhile we heard that there were several perpetrators, but we only saw one. We were also told that this was a [prison] escape operation."
A delivery man, Dimitri Degryse, was driving past when the gunman opened fire. "I heard an explosion and I thought there was something wrong with my car. Then a second grenade went off, I saw smoke and heard several shots.
"People were lying bleeding on the ground. I stopped to help them. We tried to get the wounded off the street as quickly as possible."
Gaspard Grosjean, a reporter for a Liège newspaper, arrived on the scene moments after the attack. "We saw people with bullet wounds in their shoulders, their hands," he told Reuters. "I see people completely scared, people are crying, everyone is on their phones."
Belgian mobile operators reported a surge in calls at lunchtime in the city centre, causing disruption to the networks.
The royal couple joined the country's new prime minister, Elio Di Rupo, and other senior government figures gathering in Liège.
For Di Rupo, a Walloon socialist of Italian extraction who is Belgium's first native French-speaking prime minister in more than 30 years, the tragedy is his first test. He was sworn in as prime minister only last week following Belgium's world record in being unable to form a government – 589 days.
While police, prosecutors and politicians all emphasised that the Liège tragedy was no terrorist or politically-inspired assault – "he has no history of terrorist acts," the Liège prosecutor, Daniele Reynders, told journalists – there was no persuasive motive given to explain the rampage.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/13/liege-gunman-attack-nordine-amrani |
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Fintan
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Posts: 8163
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully not destroying all forensic evidence in the process.
If anyone is interested in forensic evidence.
_________________
Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
Last edited by Fintan on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:28 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8163
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Here is video of the unidentified witness who
says the attacker shot himself in the head:
http://www.rtl.be/videos/video/375045.aspx
This is a still-frame from the video:
An involuntary nose touch is regarded as suspicious and tends
to indicate the person has something to hide or is lying.
_________________
Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
Last edited by Fintan on Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8163
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Reminding ourselves of the earlier reports
-before the story changed to a lone gunman:
| Quote: | Who's Behind the Belgium Attack:
Convicts or Jihadist Terrorists?
By DANIEL TOVROV: Subscribe to Daniel's RSS feed
December 13, 2011 10:14 AM EST
With at least two people killed and up to 70 more injured following an attack
in the Belgian city of Liege on Tuesday, authorities are racing through the city
to find those responsible.
The attack was first blamed on a lone assailant, who was either killed or
committed suicide, but police now assume that there were at least three
gunmen, one of whom has been arrested, the others still on the run....
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/266368/20111213/belgium-attack-terrorists-photos-escaped-convictes.htm |
See post by Starviego above for
more accounts of multiple gunmen.
_________________
Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
Last edited by Fintan on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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starviego
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/266368/20111213/belgium-attack-terrorists-photos-escaped-convictes.htm
"The mayor of Liege, Willy Demeyer, confirmed that three males tried to escape from the palace of justice, according to the main Flemish paper, De Standaard."
"Confirmed" is a pretty strong word. Though I doubt three escapees would be interested in a mass murder so soon after escaping. And where did they get the weaponry? Three men 'tried' to escape? Is this supposed to be coincidental with the killings? A very strange link.
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"You've got to be able to move quickly if you're running from Feds or special ops."
--Jeff Weise, Red Lake, MN |
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Fintan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Another close-up eyewitness account
is reported - but not identified:
| Quote: | A magistrate at the courthouse that faces the square,
who asked not to be named, described how he came
face to face with the killer.
"I saw him standing 20 metres away. He looked at me, I looked at him.
I pulled a few steps back, to get out of his sight and to get my phone out.
But then there was an explosion. I took cover and I saw him throwing
grenades. Then he fired an automatic weapon."
http://tgr.ph/vJruev |
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They only function when open. |
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starviego
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Headline in the Newark, NJ Star-Ledger from a week ago(12-5-11):
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/en_route_to_belgium_woman_caug.html
"En route to Belgium, woman caught with 5 grenades in Newark airport"
Baggage screeners at Newark Liberty International Airport seized five inoperable grenades packed in a checked bag by a woman flying to Belgium, the Transportation Security Administration said today. ....
Coincidence? Synchronicity? Complicity?
_________________
"You've got to be able to move quickly if you're running from Feds or special ops."
--Jeff Weise, Red Lake, MN |
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atm
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3862
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Unrelated?
| Quote: |
Gunman Kills Two in Market in Florence
EUROPE NEWS DECEMBER 13, 2011, 3:04 P.M. ET
ROME–An Italian man opened fire in an outdoor market in Florence Tuesday, killing two vendors from Senegal, then wounded three others in another Florence market before killing himself in an apparent racist attack, authorities said.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203518404577096540690783350.html |
Belgium: a founding member of the EU, with a new Italian-born PM.
Italy: a founding member of the EU, with a new Italian-born PM.
Both attacked on the same day, in much the same way... |
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Fintan
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8163
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Narrative Of Suspect's Suicide May Be Collapsing
Despite the clear and unambiguous testimony by more than one unidentified
eyewitness [see posts above] it look like the fatal injuries to the suspect
are not consistent with a self-inflicted gunshot.
| Quote: | Other witnesses said Amrani shot himself in the head with a handgun, but
Danielle Reynders, public prosecutor in the city of 196,000, said it was not
clear if he had killed himself or died from shrapnel wounds caused by one
his grenades. She said he still had a number of grenades in his backpack
when he died.
http://tgr.ph/tUZokt |
When officials begin to speak of something being "not clear"
it generally turns out to be opening code for "simply wrong".
Woman's Body Found At Home Of Suspect
As a journalist, can I say that a report which contains the phrase "[it] is said"
- and doesn't identify who is doing the "saying".... translates to
repeating mere rumor or official spin . It sure isn't journalism:
| Quote: | The woman worked as a cleaner for a an unnamed neighbour of Amrani,
who is said in the morning asked her into his home on the pretext of
offering her work and then attacked her....
Before carrying out the attack, Nordine Amrani then transferred cash to his
wife's account with the words "I love you my love. Good luck."
http://tgr.ph/tUZokt |
Amrani may well have transferred cash to his wife, but print media are
only repeating a report on Belgian TV. We await official confirmation.
| Quote: | | The incident has led to a heated a debate in the country about gun laws. |
No comment required on the above.
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They only function when open. |
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starviego
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I noticed how the media has declared him guilty of killing the housekeeper, but do not cite any hard evidence--just circumstantial.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/8955077/Liege-attacks-womans-body-found-at-home-of-Belgi
"A search last night revealed in a warehouse used by the attacker, notably to grow cannabis, the body of a woman killed by the attacker before he went to the Place Saint Lambert," said Prosecutor Cedric Visart de Bocarme. ... Police searched the warehouse, discovering a store of heavy weaponry.
There doesn't seem to be that much curiosity in the media or police about where exactly Amrani got all his gear. But I think someone who can get grenades and military-style assault weapons has connections to the criminal underworld or the military/intelligence apparatus(or am I being redundant?). But of course that wouldn't fit their 'lone whackjob' mold, now would it?
_________________
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--Jeff Weise, Red Lake, MN |
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