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who's who and on what base?
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Azoth



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject: who's who and on what base? Reply with quote

The answer for this may be different depending on where I ask.

But we're looking for some clarity on factions and or power bases. Emphasis could be on that last term.....

So, take the US. It appears the black hats are in the driver's seat here. "The US"... goes overseas and does it's thing etc. There's the military industrial complex, the Fed, IRS; where the latter two are most certainly tools and they ain't a usa apple pie phenomenon.

Now it is my understanding that Ultimately, most Gov's (and trickle down peripherals like above) are told what to do by the parallel government. There's the two majors Rockefeller/Rothschild, World Bankers and Multinational CEO"s......

This is about globalism. So am I right in thinking that anything here in the US is due to orders received? That when the US does this or that it's not really the US GOV or some arm (deciding this) but these other super rich global corporatists telling the US to do whatever?

That so many can say US is simply due to the fact that much of the machinery is BASED in the US. This and that many of these opportunist thugs happen to live or lived in the US?

>>>>>>

Along these lines, how do you explain how certain other countries manage to get out from under Their rock? Like how do you read a news item about a certain country that seems to be making sovereign decisions?

So as you see, I'm trying to balance perspective between this global Network and Individual governments and their arms.
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RedMahna



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is about globalism. So am I right in thinking that anything here in the US is due to orders received? That when the US does this or that it's not really the US GOV or some arm (deciding this) but these other super rich global corporatists telling the US to do whatever.


Basing things on the perspective that industry leaders with the biggest advertising budgets (such as a Proctor&Gamble) do not vocally condemn and advertize against the globally financed military-industrial complex is that it would literally halt a corporation's global push for new markets. It's a no-brainer that everything you see has to do with continued consumer goods mega-growth mainly for these monopolists flying under their huge Holding Company flags.

Where it leads is where we are. When one market (for example, the middle-class Western consumer) is saited (in other words, consumers have everything they can possible buy), then it's on to the next market, next upgrade, next invention. (Though there's less of what needs to be invented - which is also controlled for good reason...)

Therefore, the USA and other Western nations have shot their load, so to speak. Manufacturers moving to the East and to the Southern Hemispheres was planned long before the public heard the term "globalization." There has been a huge proliferation of big Ad Agencies popping up in those areas for decades, salivating.

Here in the USA, for instance, we were eased into a new purchasing phenomenon called subscription-based services the last 15-25 years since the practice of owning something requires only one purchase. Now everything we own or use has a monthly fee, like cable TV, the internet, smart-phones. The insurance industry was key in getting that business model figured out.

This is a planet with 7 billion people, with only 300M of those being American shoppers and their kids, pets, and elderly who are end consumers if not shoppers themselves. In places where the middle-class has shot their wad, the prognosis is they will descend to forfeiting what possessions they've held so that world industry can repeat the cycle at some other time in the future. How sloppy and painful that cycle is - is of no great importance to the globalists...

... just like it's no great skin off their back to level-off a nation through chaos in order to prepare them for consumerism - this "democracy" is happenning everywhere else in the world. Sad that it needs such great intervention. That's competiton, though we're told it's terrorism. This is the pirate calling the other pirate a pirate because some pirates have the stamp of some approved global corporate-government seal that is superior... financially and militarily.

Their catch is -

They can't keep growing if people are busy minding their own business and trading amongst themselves.

They can't keep growing if highly populated areas are still behind the times.

They can't keep growing if everyone's got everything already.

They can't keep growing if people are given entitlements, either. Or so they are hell-bent on that equation. Problem is, much of business relies on folks getting entitlements and handouts, such as grocery-shopping (welfare, food stamps, social security), doctor/hospital visits and prescriptions (medicare, medicaid), apartment renting and senior living (welfare, section-8, medicare), etc. So when those entitlement payments stop, there will be vast businesses hurt too, no doubt. However, that's what Mergers and Acquisitions are for.

Behind it all is big business and their police force, their tax men, financiers, and legislators, military, IMF, Wall Street Firms, think tanks, politicians, multi-national corps, lawyers, the media, the IT technocracy...

Isn't it amazing? One would need spies and agents for all this to be set into motion and carefully strategized, don't you think?

red

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Azoth



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: c Reply with quote

Thanks for the perspective. Good last line there..... I've heard that all the major Intelligence services work in tandem. You forgot to mention superior as to inferior types. But eugenics is another matter. I'll read your post again as I'm fried from work.......
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RedMahna



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This of course is all just assumption on my part from having worked 30 years in corporate america, and also what my impression would be were I to visit planet earth from some neutral place, wherever that might be hypothetically... so if I'm completely off-base, then I must be missing some really important fact Smile

red

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Azoth



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: c Reply with quote

I reread that and it's an excellent mundane overview.

Quite the thing when there are Thousands of suppressed patented technologies out there. These could easily usher in a new age of Living, for all.

I'm a bit tired of all the new age types haarping on Disclosure. That is, folks in the US (and other westernized camps) are the most controlled in this type of info.

Ponder this.....ain't it curious that with ALL the nuclear devices out there there hasn't been a major "exchange" since WWII. Just testings which are bad enough. I still find this significant.

But Fukushima is still emitting. Now how'd I get from CEO's to Fukushima? It appears Stuxnet was used there.....

Mark
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RedMahna



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ponder this.....ain't it curious that with ALL the nuclear devices out there there hasn't been a major "exchange" since WWII. Just testings which are bad enough. I still find this significant.


Deeply scary thought. And as such, one of the reasons I left the NYC area several years ago... after 9/11, I constantly had nightmares of nuclear attacks. Not that living now in SW Virginia means more safety, since no one (meaning we common people) knows anything.

But pondering indeed what you said - it could be that we've been extremely lucky that none of the maniacs out there have exploded such a device. Then again, it could be that intelligence knows exactly what they're doing (somehow, I need to put my faith in that). Or such things have occured and instead we get some other official report.

Coming off that matter (and to continue our free-association of topics), one can only wonder where all things dubbed "progress" lead to after the past century's leaps and bounds into technology... why do we insist on going so damned fast, anyway? At my age, I am beginning to sound like my grandparents before me, who probably felt their elders were slow and old fashioned too. We tend to look back later in life trying to determine whether any of what we call progress actually makes the world better or worse. Much can be disputed... pros & cons for so many things.

Like Fukushima... Hi-tech can help solve big problems, but can be disatrous too. Go back somewhere in 5000BC, someone could have burned down their entire village by accidentally not putting out their campfire safely. Yet, I would rather not have to worry about the Fukushimas and BP Gulf disasters while I cook my eggs on a modern stove.

Perhaps safety and convenience were not meant to be partners.

red

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Azoth



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:17 am    Post subject: c Reply with quote

Ahem, out of respect for all those in harms way, I do acknowledge the use of DU. But I of course meant larger devices. I brought that one up as the Reason may be not that mundane.

I'm sure you know what anthropologists etc have said about those isolated cultures who waive modernity. My loose metaphor of all this is traveling on the globe... you go west etc and keep going > But it just keeps going.... I think these ancient cultures know that the whole thing is ultimately an experiential con game to nowhere. But ain't it easy to entice them out of that. I think Real technological progress would eventually wind up like fantasy sci-fi where Everything is directly tapped from the Aether Source. No batteries needed.

As far as the Collective Shadow, another matter perhaps. Who knows, maybe someone cooked that idea up to.

Mark
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RedMahna



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know what you meant... like a real obvious nuking of a town, in a Hiroshima style. G-d forbid. But on security industry forums, there's talk of that and of major cyber incidents, foreseen as inevitable.

i don't understand much about shadow-this and shadow-that, and those may actually exist... what i see is the progressive outgrowth which may be naturally happenning through ordinary functions of business - and not always a good thing - like the realm of PR and advertising. it mutates to the point that we don't and can't know what is actually fact or fabrication.

sure, a busy, beautiful city emerges... we can see that. but it could have occured through all sorts of manipulations. one big manipulation in that may be the hyping of good times, ie cheap real estate loans, easy consumer cash, frenzy stock-buying. (this was our most recent scenario.)

and another is the destruction of the same, through a crash, or a violent weather pattern, or a devastating attack. we can see the actual detruction as real. but what of the circumstances leading to it?

herein lie the questions of what is real and what is authored. but i don't really believe there is a well-maintained and unanimously agreeable roadmap for all the so-called PTB. they seem to all have their own agendas, and often work against themselves due to our competitive natures as humans. so in the big picture, there is actually quite a bit of confusion and contradiction.

it is when the agents of various manipulations and changes take on monstrous deeds that people begin to realize and ask "how did we get here?" well, because some - and probably many - of us who with half the chance are given monstrous things to execute, can be steered onto certian paths if the benefits to them (real or imagined) are desirable.

so yeah, we have what we have. agents of the paid variety, dupes, fanatics, cheer-leaders, the mis-informed, etc. i often wonder which i belong to... (though i know i am not of the paid variety because i am behind on bills!!!)

maybe i am way off course, Azoth. but we as a species have led and followed ourselves into the present situation without a real referee. in a spiritual sense, not to remark too much on religious specifics, but the whole world seems to operate with snakes behind the scenes and often in clear sight. how can ethics and virtue dominate in such a culture?

so if i am reading a conservative article, or a liberal one, or a socialist one... it is easy to see they can talk the talk and twist logic. the same applies to all sorts of advertising. all sorts of government PR. we are a twisted world through our perceptions, and the big THEY (the concoction of forces that can and do manipulate us) would like for all of us to keep playing along. which we do.

red

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Azoth



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: c Reply with quote

Well typed and there's not much to add, in our present mundane context. But going off into the esoteric depths, here, is a waste of time.

But your words make me recall the ending of the incredible book Stalingrad (T. Plievier)...

As they were walking as captives after the Pocket collapsed, an officer was talking to another about Germany having to rebuild etc. But the other guy kept responding akin to "oh where have I heard that before!!"
I likely don't have to explain.

It can get even more complex for folks who also follow metaphysics...as this apparently really is a Holographic multiverse. There may be something to so called Time Loops as well.

In any case, we're both giving testimony to how in the dark we are! Funny tho, you read some of this Channeled material and they come off as knowing it all. Well that's the point! We'll see.

But I do think there may be something to Contracts...in which we all have agreed upon before incarnating. It does sound plausible that the Dark They retinue consists of folks who chose to play that role; as the necessary counterparts for the dark<> light polarity game here.

Couldn't resist that. I'm also a student of Jyotish or Vedic Astrology. I've been at this enough to know it is valid to a good extent. And Because it is valid - something to ponder. Now what if some very old families knew astrology through and through.....and what if they planned certain events for specific alignments Way off in the future. It Does seem evident that most if not all their major shenanigans are enacted according to significant celestial patterns. I do not believe seasoned astrologers are projecting or forcing fits here.

All this isn't clearing up matters in the present context. So I'm just saying I think the Game as a whole needs the spiritual counterpart to make any sense. And (as they've covered their damn bases)......this is Why we have Religion!! To Obfuscate even this!!!

I like what B. Fuller said about the System making us, the masses, out to be "utter failures". I myself am absolutely boggled how folks can still join outfits like the TSA or any of these rogue outfits. I am not saying I'm above temptation however Razz
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Azoth



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:13 pm    Post subject: c Reply with quote

Looky;

"Growing numbers of Americans living abroad are renouncing their U.S. citizenship because of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) - not to mention the ever more burdensome and complex IRS reporting obligations that now come with the treat of financial and even criminal penalties.

The United States is one the few major nations that requires their citizens living abroad to pay income taxes. The only way to end that U.S. tax obligation is to terminate U.S. citizenship.
The latest statistics reveal that more than 1,500 Americans living offshore did just that. According to the Federal Register, that’s up from 743 people in 2009 and 235 in 2008.

Jackie Bugnion, director of American Citizens Abroad, a Geneva, Switzerland-based group, says the exodus is a backlash on the part of U.S. expatriates and the offshore financial sector to the radical IRS claim that its jurisdiction extends to every bank and financial institution in the entire world.

That extraordinary IRS claim is embodied in FATCA, and was adopted in 2010 by the then Democrat-dominated Congress as part of the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act and signed with approval by President Obama.

This law threatens foreign financial banks and financial institutions of all kinds with a 30% withholding tax if they fail to comply with an onerous reporting regime on their U.S. clients.
Dangerous to the U.S. Economy

No hearings were held on this radical proposal and few knew it was even contained within the pending bill - just as its sponsors wanted it.

This summer, American Citizens Abroad launched an international campaign to repeal FATCA, which they describe as “misconceived” and “dangerous for the U.S. economy.”

This complements a U.S. drive to repeal FATCA led by the Coalition for Tax Competition, of which The Sovereign Society is a member.

While the reaction of an increasing number of Americans has been to acquire a second passport and dual citizenship as a prelude to ending their U.S. status, numerous foreign banks have reacted by dumping existing American clients and refusing new ones.

As if the threat of FACTA were not enough, the IRS has an active prejudice against U.S. persons with offshore bank accounts and business interests, automatically assuming any American who dares to engage in offshore financial activity is probably a tax evader or worse.

Add to that prejudice the arbitrary application of a complex U.S. tax code, plus the attitude that the taxpayer is always guilty until they can prove otherwise.
Preposterous Claims

The IRS makes the preposterous claim that enforcement of FACTA possibly can produce additional tax revenues of US$8 billion over 10 years. At the same time, estimates of the cost of implementing FACTA run into hundreds of billions of dollars, plus at least $10 billion per year for filing requirements.

Nonetheless, in a rare instance of official sanity in July, the IRS announced that the original January 1, 2013 effective date for FATCA had been dropped.

Under the new IRS schedule, offshore private banks, which face the most onerous IRS requirements under FATCA, will not have to provide details on U.S. clients with accounts with more than $50,000 until 2014. Lower value accounts at private banks do not need to be reported until the end of 2014. Certain other accounts do not have to be reported until 2015.

No doubt what brought about this delay was the firestorm of anti-FATCA American public opinion and a chorus of protests, not only from the international financial and banking industry but also from foreign governments.

Canadian treasury officials have attacked FATCA calling it unworkable, far too costly and an unprecedented U.S. intrusion on their national sovereignty.

Typical of these foreign complaints was a prediction that if FATCA were imposed on The Bahamas that offshore financial center would drop most of its American clients.

Delay is not the answer to this colossal FACTA mess. Complete repeal is.

Much hinges on the outcome of the 2012 U.S. elections, not least of which is the freedom of Americans to do business where they choose."
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RedMahna



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know, at this point Azoth, there's likely nothing any govt or economist can do to fix the whole confounded mess, but only to add more shit onto it.

it's amazing anything works when we get up in the morning. but it's also as if we're always on some kind of stand-by.

i know i went way off topic, so i apologize about that... trying to figure out "who's who and on what base" - all we have are suspicions, educated guesses, sporadic tell-alls from "experts" in their books, and some richy-rich guys who now and then blurt out little tid-bits that are obviously revealing, but not very helpful since knowledge is only a part of the solution.

red

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Azoth



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:05 am    Post subject: c Reply with quote

That's fine and I agree. I think this applies to Ron Paul as well. I wasn't clever enough to coin the phase but it may be dead on; "controlled opposition".
And I side with others who say one guy simply can't do anything in all this.

The big boys club. I'll have to say they deserve it as they just about did it. Good show. It's our own fault for not getting together (ie. with an effective plan) sooner.

However, it's too easy to get lost at sea as it were. It does appear that since so much has come out in the wash lately that a few of these guys have been checked. There's infighting to. But the big picture won't save the next person from starving to death.

I like cats. I hate small dogs........
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