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skinters



Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its incredible.

Imagine if we all did this at once,and the amount of change it would bring about.
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3722

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skinters wrote:

Quote:


Its incredible.

Imagine if we all did this at once, and the amount of change it would bring about.



From where I'm sitting, we are and it is being brought about.

Resistance is victory.

atm Exclamation
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ATM: Resistance is victory.

Indeed. And the path from resistance to victory is.... a spiral Wink

Friday in Cairo: Spiraling Out of Control?

Quote:
<object>

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Last edited by Fintan on Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[Updated 10:04 a.m. (1704 in Egypt)]
CNN's Ben Wedeman reports his
first sighting of Egyptian army troops
getting involved in the unrest in Cairo
.

Two armored personnel carriers arrived near a bridge to cries of
"Allahu akhbar" from protesters, who apparently believe the army
will show more restraint than riot police have, Wedeman reported.

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Sasha



Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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Location: Caribbean (kar-uh-bee-uhn) of Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What comes next if events unrolled naturally. Is there a leaning more to a theocracy? Are these young people more secular? Egypt's population has gone from around 40 million to around 80 million since Mubarak has been in power. The median age is 24 for 2010. Egpyt's religious makeup - Muslim (mostly Sunni) 90%, Coptic 9%, other Christian 1%.

If this is real - I can see why Israel would be freaked out. Or is there a Black Hand ((Serbian: Црна рука, Crna ruka), officially Unity or Death (Уједињење или смрт, Ujedinjenje ili smrt), was a military secret society founded in ..) like show being orchestrated? I think this is for real. Maybe some other interest at play here? Is there not huge oil/gas exploration efforts going on in Egypt on land/offshore pre-drilling right now?

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Egyptian protesters chase police from main
Cairo square, some officers join demonstrators

By MAGGIE MICHAEL | Associated Press | 14 minutes ago in World

Thousands of anti-government protesters wielding rocks, glass and sticks
chased hundreds of riot police away from the main square in downtown
Cairo and several of the policemen stripped off their uniforms and badges
and joined the demonstrators.


An Associated Press reporter saw the protesters cheering the police who
joined them and hoisting them on their shoulders in one of the many
dramatic and chaotic scenes across Egypt on Friday.

After chasing the police, thousands of protesters were able to flood into
the huge Tahrir Square downtown after being kept out most of the day by
a very heavy police presence. Few police could be seen around the
square after the confrontation...........

http://bit.ly/eIWvjM

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update Fri 12:40pmEST
Looks like the momentum is with the
revolution for now, as protest numbers swell
and army displace interior ministry police
--to applause from protestors.


Quote:
CAIRO VIDEO LIVE:
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/


APNewsAlert:
State TV says Egypt's ruling party headquarters in Cairo is burning. -BW

Quote:

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update 2:40pmEST Friday
They've done it!
The deployment of the army means the Regime is finished


Quote:


The Egyptian capital Cairo was the scene of violent chaos on Friday,
when tens of thousands of anti-government protesters stoned and
confronted police, who fired back with rubber bullets, tear gas and
water cannons.


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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason the people are welcoming the army
on the street is that the decision by authorities to
deploy the army effectively ended the threat that
protesters might be shot by interior ministry thugs
and it took the police out of the equation.

So that was an admission of defeat by the Regime.

The deployment of the army simply puts a floor
under the potential for destruction and buys time
to figure a Mubarak exit strategy.

The revolution has succeeded.

Now it's a question of degree.

All of this is a body blow for the NWO and
It's puppet leaders across the Arab world
.


Quote:


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Last edited by Fintan on Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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skinters



Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im watching this with interest,and its a fantastic time.

Nice one for covering this Fintan.

I hope they can have someone at last chosen by the people and not put there and supported by UK/US interest.
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Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Pyramid scheme? Reply with quote

IIRC, my previous bosses (both Egyptians, one non-practising Muslim, the other Coptic Christian) told me that Mubarak was a puppet, put in place by the ruling "faction" after Sadat's errr...removal so as not to get in the way.

Likely they will find a suitable replacement in quick order.

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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 698

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan wrote:
The reason the people are welcoming the army
on the street is that the decision by authorities to
deploy the army effectively ended the threat that
protesters might be shot by interior ministry thugs
and it took the police out of the equation.

So that was an admission of defeat by the Regime.

The deployment of the army simply puts a floor
under the potential for destruction and buys time
to figure a Mubarak exit strategy.

The revolution has succeeded.

Now it's a question of degree.

All of this is a body blow for the NWO and
It's puppet leaders across the Arab world
.




Fintan makes a very good point in this post. If, as in Tunisia, the military is not embedded in the corruption of the government, this may be the best thing to happen for the protesters. It's the local police goons currently causing the violence in Egypt and elsewhere.

I don't have a clue where this is going and the fakes are all over the claim that the "CIA/NWO" is orchestrating the events but there are lessons to be learned.

Could you imagine if this anger bleeds (sic) over to the US with the military standing down?? Yikes! We live in some interesting times!

- Hawk

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skinters



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like this it ruffling some feathers.

Quote:

Israelis fear unwinding of political stability

The recent wave of political protest that has swept Arab countries such as Tunisia and Egypt is also stirring concern in the one regional power that looks completely immune to popular unrest: Israel.

For Israeli leaders, the threat posed by rioting youngsters in Tunis and Cairo is less direct, but it is menacing all the same. Their fear is that popular unrest in the Arab world will ultimately endanger the single most important regional commodity from Israel’s point of view: political stability.

“This is a reason for concern, primarily because of the potential for an epidemic,” says Oded Eran, the director of Israel’s Institute for National Security ­Studies.

Regime change in Tunisia itself, he says, is of only marginal concern. But Mr Eran adds: “We cannot afford dramatic change in Egypt or Jordan.”

For Israel, the importance of relations with Amman and Cairo cannot be overstated.

The two countries share a direct border with Israel, and are the only Arab states to have signed peace deals with the Jewish state. Israel co-operates closely with the Jordanian and Egyptian security forces to bolster its control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. And while many Israelis remain reluctant to travel across the border, the ability to visit the Sinai and Jordan’s Red Sea resorts helps alleviate a deeply felt sense of isolation.

For the time being, Israeli experts say it is far from clear that the toppling of Tunisia’s autocratic ruler, Zein al-Abidine Ben Ali, this month will not trigger a domino effect.

“A lot depends on the loyalty of the security forces, and in both Egypt and Jordan the regime’s grip on the security forces is much stronger,” says Mr Eran, a former Israeli ambassador to Amman.

Israeli officials admit that it appears peculiar for them not to welcome the chance of a democratic opening in the Arab world.

However, as one official with extensive knowledge of the region puts it: “When tsarist Russia went through a revolution, there was a democratic moment, and we all know how that ended.

“In Tehran in 1979, there was a democratic moment, and we all know how that ended.”

The official added: “A democratic opening is great – but will it last? And will it ultimately not unleash non-democratic and violent forces? That is our concern.”

Eyal Zisser, senior research fellow at Tel Aviv’s Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and African Studies, points to a another historical analogy. “This is not like eastern Europe in the late 1980s,” he says. “This is not a region where stable dictatorships can be replaced with stable democracies. Here the alternative means chaos, anarchy and ­radicalism.”

The worries underline the degree to which Israeli policymakers have become attached to the regional status quo. Israelis are under no illusion that they are treated with, at best, grudging acceptance by their ­neighbours.

However, they also know that the current crop of Arab leader is deeply reluctant to upset the regional balance of power. Most importantly, none of Israel’s neighbours has dared to challenge it on the battlefield since the 1973 Yom Kippur war.

But the lack of Israeli enthusiasm for democratic change in the Arab world also reflects a specific experience: the 2006 elections in the Palestinian territories, which ended in a triumph for the Islamist Hamas movement at the expense of the pro-western Fatah party.

Indeed, one of the worst nightmares for Israeli strategists is a replay of that outcome in Egypt.

“Try to imagine the results of an election in Egypt with the Muslim Brotherhood allowed to run freely. The consequences for Israel would be very negative,” says Mr Eran, adding that he doubts the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty would survive such a scenario.

As the riots and unrest intensify, Israelis look to their neighbours guided by one principle above all. As Mr Zisser says: “Instability is bad news.”


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bf4ed2ee-2b1e-11e0-a65f-00144feab49a.html#axzz4OTurbsKB
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hawkwind:
the fakes are all over the claim that the
"CIA/NWO" is orchestrating the events

That's the great thing about knowing who is Fake.

The opposite of what the Fakes say is the truth.

So that's confirmation that the CIA/NWO aren't behind this.

More confirmation comes from figuring the
opposite of what is being released via the
WikiCIAleaks outfit:

Quote:
America's secret backing for rebel
leaders behind Egyptian uprising


Exclusive: WikiLeaks cables show US government backed
dissidents who have planned “regime change” for three years.


The activist told US diplomats that an alliance of opposition groups had
drawn up a plan to overthrow President Hosni Mubarak and install a
democratic government in 2011.

Read the quote in red.

And figure this:

--The Egyptian uprising was triggered by the Tunisian uprising.

--The Tunisian uprising was a 100% spontaneous event triggered
by a lowly peasant burning himself due to police victimization.

--The claim that the Egyptian uprising was pre-planned is nonsense.
It was directly and solely inspired by the revolution in Tunisia.

--This very timely Daily Telegraph exclusive Wikileaks story is DISINFO.

--It's objective is:

1. To try confuse the issue, and sow doubt in the Arab world.
2. To Portray the US/NWO/CIA as being in control.
3. To try stop people in the West and elsewhere being inspired.

In other words, filthy black propaganda.

Like you'd expect from the Fakes.

The people of Egypt know very well that the US/NWO has been firmly
behind the dictator for years. They are not about to forget that. And
people from the street to the top know the track record of US intel in
the region too. Only too well.

The NWO is scrambling to play catch-up here.

It sure isn't in control. lol

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mubarak has asked for the government to resign,
saying he will appoint a new government.


Says he is on the side of the Egyptian poor.
"The economy is not to be kept only for the economists."

Great line. 10 years late. Fat chance.
Close the door on your way out.

This, just in the last ten minutes from CNN
seems to confirm my political analysis of the
state of this middle class and youth revolution:

Quote:
The military and the media:
Holding the cards in Egypt?


By Moni Basu, CNN - January 28, 2011 -- Updated 2307 GMT (0707 HKT)


(CNN) -- As mass protests swept Egypt on Friday, the actions of two key institutions served as indicators for what lies ahead for the embattled regime: the military and the media.

President Hosni Mubarak deployed the Egyptian army for the first time to the streets to quell angry demonstrations against his authoritarian regime. That's a sure sign of the government's desperation, according to experts on the region.

And for the first time, the state-run media didn't ignore the unrest or dump on the demonstrations as acts of terrorism in its usual manner. That, too, say experts, was a key indicator that Mubarak could be facing trouble.

It's a given that the military, a pillar of Egyptian authority since a 1952 coup toppled the monarchy, holds the keys at this critical juncture.

Many feared that the army will silence the protesters with its firepower and tanks that are now out on the streets of Cairo and Alexandria.

But Edward Walker, a former U.S. ambassador to Egypt, said that a military crackdown would be a "death knell not only to the military but the regime." Such a crackdown didn't happen in nearby Tunisia, where the authoritarian ruler fled the nation, and it was hardly what happened in Egypt on Friday.

On the contrary, Egypt's 450,000-strong armed forces are well-established and respected by the people. Journalists reported seeing protesters cheer army convoys as they drove into Cairo and Alexandria. Some embraced the soldiers on the ground; they were seen as saviors from excessive police brutality.

To Mohammed el-Nawawy, a professor at Queens University in North Carolina, the fact that the military was called out Friday showed that Mubarak was desperate. The all-important question is how loyal the armed forces will remain to the aging leader who has ruled Egypt with an iron fist for three decades.

Meanwhile, the state-controlled television network walked a tightrope Friday.

Early in the day, Nile TV began showing footage of the demonstrations of "tens of thousands of people" and reported the use of police tear gas. It aired opposition leaders criticizing the government for shutting down the lines of communication.

Shawn Powers, a Georgia State University assistant professor who studies international media, said it was unusual for an arm of the government to even cover these events or portray them as anything but acts initiated by unsavory elements of society.

"I'm amazed," Powers said of the coverage.

Even with social media and mobile phone messaging blocked, Egyptians could see events unfolding live on international networks including CNN. The Egyptian media may have felt that they would lose all credibility with the people if they were to completely distort the story.

Ultimately, Powers said, he suspected fissures within Mubarak's ranks and said some in the government may be thinking of their own future in a nation barely holding back from the brink.

"What we're seeing today is parts of the government feeling increasingly isolated from Mubarak or intentionally doing so to hold on to power after Mubarak goes," he said.

By the end of the day, however, Nile TV's coverage shifted, reverting to words like "hooliganism" and "lawlessness" to describe the demonstrations.

El-Nawawy, who has studied Egyptian media in depth, said Friday's media coverage could mean that Mubarak has no one left to blame, so he gave the protesters, many of whom are young people, a little wiggle room.

"The state media is walking a fine line to give credit to the young people, but in the meantime, it has to justify intervention and crackdown," el-Nawawy said.

El-Nawawy said things will get really thorny if Egypt's impoverished masses join hands with the protesters -- believed to be largely from the educated middle classes -- and the demonstrations grow to even more chaotic proportions.

That's when the military and the state-run media will both have to come to terms with events in their country.

That's when Mubarak, el-Nawawy said, may realize that he can shut down Facebook but not the People's Book.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/28/egypt.protest.dissent/

The article is a little wolly when it states:

Quote:
The all-important question is how loyal the armed forces will remain to
the aging leader who has ruled Egypt with an iron fist for three decades.

That question has already been answered by the rank and file of
the army standing in the streets with the people. Mubarak does not
have the sway to get army generals to put their necks on the line.

And the situation can't be let deteriorate further, because:

Quote:
...things will get really thorny if Egypt's impoverished masses join hands
with the protesters -- believed to be largely from the educated middle
classes -- and the demonstrations grow to even more chaotic proportions.

Precisely.

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