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Ayn Rand Revisited

 
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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Ayn Rand Revisited Reply with quote

I've been rereading some books from my past life and I am amazed at how our current situation has been defined a long time ago ... Ayn Rand ... love her or hate her ... she had something to say about where we are today.

Before you tackle "The Fountainhead" or "Atlas Shrugged" (god forbid) ... give "Anthem" a spin around the block ... it's not a waste of time.

http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/texts/anthem/complete.html

Or watch her in action outside of fiction ...









Heady stuff ... Cool

- Hawk

PS: I am not selling her brand of dystopia ... but she pointed out the dangers of the NEOCONS back in 1961 ... hello ... is this thing on? Idea

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Figaro



Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For someone so intelligent, and, obviously, held back in life by altruism and notions of the general welfare, it should be noted that a) she never discovered anything whatsoever in the field of science, and, b) was clearly no Shakespeare in the field of arts.
Her idea of the nature of mankind, isn't even consistent with the Founding Fathers, unless you buy into the provably incorrect idea that arch-luddite and slave-owner Thomas Jefferson's ideas were the basis of the republic.
Now we Republicans and the LSE promoting Ayn Rand, without the former having any conception that the latter, and Ayn Rand, are the opposite of the principles on which America was proposed and created.

She is simply a babbling, non-producer, who happens to have had the benefit of being born into a sick-minded bougeois family, hence her "survival of the fittest" bs.

If you want to expand your intellect, read some of the ancients from Greece, or the Vedas, or any of those involved of the 3 renaissances. Wasting your time on books David Cameron uses as mastubation material...
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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Her take on the 'conservatives' was as 100% correct then as it is today.

Last edited by MichaelC on Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8182

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Figaro:
Wasting your time on books David Cameron
uses as mastubation material...

LOL

But Rand may have some redeeming values hiding in there,
and I think Hawk is pointing to some of them. I disagree
with her assumption that death destroys consciousness,
but there's room for a little nuance here....

Rand really gets worked up about Kant in Part 2.
Kant was an idiot. Way to go Ayn!

Quote:
Kant attempted to demonstrate that the world that we experience is not the real world. The real world does not include our species concepts of space, time, entity, causality, and so on. He contended that the phenomenal world of appearances that we experience is metaphysically inferior to the noumenal world of true reality. The noumenal world is the world of things in themselves, higher truth, and real reality. Link

Ah yes, the old "Real Reality is Elsewhere" trap.
Umm..where have I heard that before...
Oh yeah: "Heaven". Real reality elsewhere.
Kant, you dope. You recycled religion:

Quote:
According to Kant, a person must act from duty which he views as an
act of pure or abject selflessness. One’s duty is thus to sacrifice himself
to duty
which is a dictate of pure reason.... Kantianism sharply
opposes the pursuit of happiness to the practice of one’s duty.

Duty! Ugh.
Sacrifice! Retch....
Self-abnegation! Gimme a break.
All just more recycled religion.

I'm with Ayn Rand on that one. Laughing

Will watch some more.

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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan wrote:

LOL

But Rand may have some redeeming values hiding in there,
and I think Hawk is pointing to some of them. I disagree
with her assumption that death destroys consciousness,
but there's room for a little nuance here....


Thanks Fintan, just offering some thought provoking material, hopefully. I will point out a difference we have on her interpretation of death ... Snyder says something about how he hates the thought of dying and just ending up as corpses in graves ... she counters with an interesting spin IMHO, she quotes another unnamed Greek philosopher that "I will not die, it's the world that will end" and she morns that thought. I think she might be tip toeing around a commitment ... she is quite a hard nosed sort of person ... not a dummy as stated elsewhere here. Laughing

I will still read her work and take the good with the bad ... I think that's called "next level" thinking ... Wink

- Hawk

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tangel476



Joined: 28 Oct 2010
Posts: 8
Location: VA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Greek philosophy is good area to start... Reply with quote

particularly Aristotle's 'Politics'. You can download freely at manybooks.net
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bri



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
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Location: Capacious Creek

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hawkwind wrote:
take the good with the bad ... I think that's called "next level" thinking ... Wink


cheers

Agreed, take whatchya need n' leave the rest.

Can't resist this quote from Flannery O'Connor though...

Quote:
The fiction of Ayn Rand is as low as you can get re fiction. I hope you picked it up off the floor of the subway and threw it in the nearest garbage pail. She makes Mickey Spillane look like Dostoevsky.


Maybe they work better as non-fiction?

However, thanks for the links Hawk. I don't find Ayn so creepy anymore now that I've given her the chance. Thought provoking for sure...
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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One reason, from what I see, that Ayn Rand has been so vilified by the 'politically correct' (aka NWO) is that she tells us to trust and believe the evidence of our own experience. The NWO does not like this as it is contrary to their plan of using fear/ignorance to force the producers to support the parasites. When we believe the evidence of our own experience (aka reality) then there is no purpose in being taxed to pay for imaginary 'diseases', imaginary 'wars', imaginary 'terrorists', fairytale 'man made climate change' $etc$ $etc$ $etc$, when the only 'evidence' for these 'menaces' comes from the media and the government(aka the parasites and their flunkies).

A hatred and fear of nature and sexuality is also a part of the disconnect from reason/reality that the NWO loves to promote. As in "Sex = bad, but drugs = ok".
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Figaro



Joined: 03 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayn rand vilified by the NWO...? Maybe one part of the NWO dislikes her (I don't know who), but the fascist faction of Greenspan certainly like her.
Even a cursory look at the people who admire her, would suggest maybe they misunderstand her, or she isn't all that great!
She seems to have missed the fact that, in her fantasy world of self-interest, the historical reality of non-imperial scientific development, was never, by any known scientist, based on rational self-interest, but from a stand-point diametrically opposed to hers, that of developing for the greater good (oohhh thats communism!!). Even Buckminster Fullers starting point was "What can I do for the benefit of the universe, and will the universe back me up if I dedicate myself to it." Similarly, there were no financial or social rewards for Kepler when he discovered the anti-Aristotilian harmonic ordering of our solar system. He lived and died in poverty, but his work was the basis of what we now have (we would still be thinking the the orbits of planets are "perfect circles")
I could list profiles of dozens of scientists and people involved in the creation of the US Respublic whos lives were clearly dedicated to posterity more than their own egocentric self-interest.
So when we hear her, basically, complain that she and the creative people are held back, it has to be pointed out, she isn't one of the creative people, and nor are her associates like Alan Greenspan: they're just rich people who don't understand where the history of their own industrial-society-based-wealth.
Philosophy without practical creative application in the real world, is babbling. Thats all she, and the entire Enlightenment and modern philosphers are, babblers.
(Sorry but I have a real hatred of wealthy non-producers like Ayn Rand, its, ironically, 'only reasonable').
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Figaro



Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone heard of this guy? Just saw this scrolling through Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j77LuS7MTgY
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gt



Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Figaro wrote:
Anyone heard of this guy? Just saw this scrolling through Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j77LuS7MTgY


meh. A few interesting points, but seems like a typical conservative.. Reagan was good. H.W. Bush was a nice guy, but too soft. Afraid of Iran getting nuclear weapons, etc.. Obama's healthcare bill was 1000+ pages and no one had time to read it ...
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