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Azoth



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: pentagram query Reply with quote

we know the platonic solids and the godly torus. all this is 3D. how does the pentagram fit into this family? it's a 2D Glyph.
i know about apple cores...my body and hands. but how might the pentagram be represented in 3D, besides stars with thickness?
hope that makes sense.
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Azoth



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject: c Reply with quote

hope that makes sense to the person who actually knows. but may've been hasty in posting. it just may be that the pentagram isn't about Solid (3D) geometries. it's more specifically about resultant proportions in the manifestation of phi. the unfolding of phi(s, interacting or nesting together) from the implicate order....

but i made a connection that i've never seen anywhere else...

the pentagram, ta dah; that is the secret behind the magickal contrivance abracadabra. or as A.Crowley. put it, abrahadabra.

verstehen sie?

btw, that super genius who's putting out that book on the math of god. i noticed that the godnames he used weren't quite the traditional. the one for mars was way off. odd he didn't employ the tetragrammaton either.
to, other folks show how the tree of life glyph, glyph that is, was more a mnemonic device. yet we have very smart folks projecting everything on to it, like L. Leet's heady tome. pure speculation, taken to extremes.

just a transient observation....
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micpsi



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: c Reply with quote

Azoth wrote:
hope that makes sense to the person who actually knows. but may've been hasty in posting. it just may be that the pentagram isn't about Solid (3D) geometries. it's more specifically about resultant proportions in the manifestation of phi. the unfolding of phi(s, interacting or nesting together) from the implicate order....

but i made a connection that i've never seen anywhere else...

the pentagram, ta dah; that is the secret behind the magickal contrivance abracadabra. or as A.Crowley. put it, abrahadabra.

verstehen sie?

btw, that super genius who's putting out that book on the math of god. i noticed that the godnames he used weren't quite the traditional. the one for mars was way off. odd he didn't employ the tetragrammaton either.
to, other folks show how the tree of life glyph, glyph that is, was more a mnemonic device. yet we have very smart folks projecting everything on to it, like L. Leet's heady tome. pure speculation, taken to extremes.

just a transient observation....

What is called "traditional" is the Kabbalah of the Order of the Golden Dawn. This interpretation is rejected by most Jewish Kabbalists, although some of their Godnames conform to the Jewish tradition. ELOHA is the correct Godname of Geburah, with which the planet Mars is associated (Madim). It is the feminine form of EL, the Godname assigned to Chesed on the opposite (male) pillar of Mercy in the Tree of Life. YAHWEH appears regularly in the work of "that super genius", so you are incorrect there as well.
As for speculation, ask any mathematician whether he speculates and you will be shown the door. Wait until you read the book before rushing to such premature judgement. That is, if you can understand it......
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Azoth



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

firstly, i said super genius cause that guy is obviously very smart, period. second, the golden dawn lifted godnames from older sources.
as for my query thanks for nothing.
but it is funny i see your post today. i was just reading about the letters M and S. mem as we know. water and Mars? at first i didn't get the connection. but it's pretty neat that you echoed said connection. i won't bother to elaborate.
you misconstrued my tone. there is a lot of speculation out there....
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zhisheng



Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"we know the platonic solids and the godly torus. all this is 3D. how does the pentagram fit into this family?"


Here is one way, but it may not be what you are looking for.

The dodecahedron platonic solid encloses an icosahedron platonic solid, and is enclosed by another isocohedron.

A dodecahedron has 12 faces, each a regular pentagon. If you find the centerpoint of each of these faces, and connect each centerpoint with lines to the five closest other centerpoints, then the resulting figure is the inner icosohedron.

To obtain the outer isocohedron, one can use the pentagrams obtained by extending the lines of the pentagon faces of the dodecahedron. The 12 pentagrams induced by the 12 pentagon faces have 5 times 12 or 60 star-points. However each star point coincides with 2 others, so the total number of new points obtained by drawing in the pentagram extensions of the pentagons is 60/3 or 20. The 20 points are the vertex points of the icosahedron surrounding the dodecahedron.

I have a question of my own: Why do you refer to a torus as "godly"? Do you mean by this a particular torus, or that all tori have "godly" properties? If it is the latter case, how exactly is a torus "godly"?
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great summary.

Quote:
Why do you refer to a torus as "godly"?


Well, here's a great one on the centrality of the torus.

From Just0 who posts on this forum:

http://treeincarnation.com/articles/Video/Spheres-In-Torus.html

Taken from his article:

http://treeincarnation.com/articles/Spin-of-Space.htm

_________________
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They only function when open.
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Azoth



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:43 am    Post subject: C Reply with quote

Thanks, I must be a visual learner tho. I'll update my query with how a pentatope is the 4d of a pentagram. Seems to be the same as a hypercube. And...just last night - right around the time you posted - I was thinking how these latter most likely conform or play out as the structures you mention.

Well, by saying godly I simply meant primal. I myself see the term godly often
used in describing certain music offerings. Guess it rubbed off. Like fucking godly tremolo picking black metal... or some such.

Danke
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zhisheng



Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Correction Reply with quote

Sorry Azoth... messed up on my first post. When I said
Quote:
However each star point coincides with 2 others, so the total number of new points obtained by drawing in the pentagram extensions of the pentagons is 60/3 or 20. The 20 points are the vertex points of the icosahedron surrounding the dodecahedron.

I should have said:

However each star point coincides with 4 others, so the total number of new points obtained by drawing the pentagram extensions of the pentagons is 60/5 or 12. The 12 points are the vertex points of the icosohedron surrounding the dodecahedron.

An icosahedron has 20 faces and 12 points: not 20 points and 12 faces like a dodecahedron has. Embarassed
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zhisheng



Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: The Primal Central Torus Reply with quote

Nifty video by Just0 of the spinning sphere: how the sphere can map out a torus, and how the torus, by identitfication of certain points with each other, can contract into a sphere.

In a way which can be made precise, the torus is actually more primal than a sphere. But this is not the torus that most people imagine when they visualize it: to wit, the shape of a doughnut or inner tube.

The torus to which I refer is more like an hour-glass, where the sides are extended off through infinity. For those who remember their algebra, one such can be described by the equation 1+z^2=x^2+y^2 (here z^2 denotes z times z, etc.).

It is primal in the sense that its inside can be transformed continously onto its outside in such a way that no straight lines are bent. This cannot be done with any other type of surface.

It is also primal in the sense that the main operations of mathematics: addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and angular addition, are all quite elegantly hidden within it. Inherent is a beautiful symmetry which contains the basics of mathematics.

I am sorry I cannot adequately describe those things within the scope of this post.
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Azoth



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:08 am    Post subject: c Reply with quote

Yes, you'd better be sorry... Isn't the stuff about lines and flows, in essence, based on phi?

I'm lousy at math so have nothing to add in that. Ya, pun.

But had the realization; the torus....now what shape or object seems to be it's counterpart? Ta da, the Alembic {and perhaps all it represents}.

Would love to speak more german. Am taking the Rocket German course but this is very introductory.

Tschuss
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zhisheng



Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The basic building block of a torus is a circle, and some of what I referred to above can be seen with just a circle.

First see how we can identify a circle with a line, plus one extra point, which we shall call infinity. I have drawn a vertical line, picked a point to represent 0, chosen a unit of length, and labeled points with their corresponding numbers (in blue). In the figure below I have labeled 0, 1, -1, and a variable point r. Note that we have positive numbers going up and negative ones going down.

Now I draw a circle on the left side of the line, tangent to the line at 0, and of diameter 1. I take the point on the circle to the left of 0, but on the line horizontal through 0, and label it with the infinity symbol. I use orange to label points on the circle.

Now to each point r on the vertical line, there is exactly one line through the infinity symbol: this line cuts through the circle at exactly one other point, and I will label this point on the circle with the same label as that on the vertical line, but in orange instead of blue..



Thus each point on the line corresponds to a single point on the circle, and vice versa, with the exception of the orange "infinity" point. In this way a circle can be identified with a line with a single point at infinity thrown in. Notice here that minus infinity is the same as plus infinity, so the idea is that if one goes down the line infinitely far, he will come back on top. Shocked Looking at a line this way, with the point at infinity added on, it is often called the projective line.

Since points on the line correspond to points on the circle, the sum of two points on the line corresponds to a point on the circle: the operation + applied to points on the line, corresponds to another operation + applied to points on the circle.

The same is true with other operations such as subtraction, multiplication, division, etc. In principle then, if we know how to produce all the orange operations on the circle, we can produce the blue operations on the line. And it turns out that, geometrically, it is easier to produce the orange operations than the blue ones. In fact each line and each point in the plane correspond to different operations on the circle. In particular, It turns out that the line tangent to the orange infinity corresponds to addition, and the line through 0 and the orange infinity corresponds to multiplication..

But tempus fugit and I will have to defer showing how this works to a subsequent post.


Last edited by zhisheng on Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Azoth



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: c Reply with quote

Thy tidy trick to transposing the truth that tells...the time (to). Thanks.
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