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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: Gold Fever & Dollar Exit ? |
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Well I don't have to spell this out, do I?
Just a few hour after I said in the latest audio(EU Empire).
that the NWO are coming for the USA next, I found this
from the Independent UK's Robert Fisk:
| Quote: | 
The demise of the dollar
In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab
states have launched secret moves with China, Russia and France to
stop using the US currency for oil trading
By Robert Fisk - Tuesday, 6 October 2009
In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.
Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.
The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.
The Americans, who are aware the meetings have taken place – although they have not discovered the details – are sure to fight this international cabal which will include hitherto loyal allies Japan and the Gulf Arabs.
Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East. "Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."
This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil – yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy. China uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient. The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.
The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick. "One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," he said in Istanbul ahead of meetings this week of the IMF and World Bank. But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.
Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.
China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.
Furthermore, Chinese exports to the region now account for no fewer than 10 per cent of the imports of every country in the Middle East, including a huge range of products from cars to weapon systems, food, clothes, even dolls. In a clear sign of China's growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China's reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.
Ever since the Bretton Woods agreements – the accords after the Second World War which bequeathed the architecture for the modern international financial system – America's trading partners have been left to cope with the impact of Washington's control and, in more recent years, the hegemony of the dollar as the dominant global reserve currency.
The Chinese believe, for example, that the Americans persuaded Britain to stay out of the euro in order to prevent an earlier move away from the dollar. But Chinese banking sources say their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now. "The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told The Independent. "The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."
Chinese financial sources believe President Barack Obama is too busy fixing the US economy to concentrate on the extraordinary implications of the transition from the dollar in nine years' time. The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018.
The US discussed the trend briefly at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh; the Chinese Central Bank governor and other officials have been worrying aloud about the dollar for years. Their problem is that much of their national wealth is tied up in dollar assets.
"These plans will change the face of international financial transactions," one Chinese banker said. "America and Britain must be very worried. You will know how worried by the thunder of denials this news will generate."
Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html |
The Independent also had a leading
editorial on the report by Robert Fisk.
It speaks of a "New Order"
(Big surprise, eh?):
| Quote: | Leading article:
The end of the dollar spells the rise of a new order
This radical proposal is a reflection of a changing economic world
Tuesday, 6 October 2009
Last autumn's global financial crisis set off an economic earthquake. And we are still feeling the tremors. The latest sign of the ground shifting beneath our feet is our report today of plans by Gulf states, China, Russia, France and Japan to end their practice of conducting oil deals in US dollars, switching instead to a diverse basket of currencies.
It is not hard to see the motivation for oil exporters to move away from the dollar. The value of the US currency has fallen sharply since last year's meltdown. And fears are growing, in the light of a spiralling US government deficit, that a further depreciation is likely. They do not want to sell their wares in return for a currency with an uncertain future.
It is also easy to see why China would like a world trading system that is underpinned by other currencies as well as the dollar. For the past decade Beijing has been recycling the proceeds of its giant national trade surplus into purchases of US government bonds and other dollar-denominated assets. China too stands to make a significant loss if the value of the dollar falls. For China, however, the timing is much more sensitive. Beijing needs to reduce its dollar holdings, but if it does so too quickly it will bring about the very devaluation it fears. This explains why Chinese officials appear to want this transition to take place gradually over the next decade.
But the significance of this development goes much further. Since the end of the Second World War the dollar has been the bedrock of world trade. The pre-eminence of the American currency flowed naturally from the economic dominance of the US. Virtually everyone traded with America so it made sense to use their currency.
But the US is not the dominant power that it once was. The financial crisis has left it hobbled with significant government and household debts and sharply reduced prospects for growth. Developing nations such as China, Brazil and India, on the other hand, have weathered the economic storm significantly better. So while this latest proposal is born of financial calculation, it is also a reflection of a new economic world order.
We should not be sentimental for the dollar. It makes economic sense for world trade to be conducted in a variety of currencies. Relying on one only has the advantage of clarity, but it also creates instability if the economy that underpins it faces uncertain prospects.
Yet we need to understand that exchange rate volatility is a symptom, rather than a cause, of what truly ails the world economy. The biggest driver of global economic instability in recent years has been the determination of China to boost its export sector at all costs. Beijing's persistently large trade surpluses and manipulation to prevent its own currency from appreciating have effectively forced Western nations into running persistently large trade deficits. It was this pressure that blew up various asset bubbles that burst with such disastrous effect last year.
A gradual move away from the dollar makes sense. But without a commitment from world governments – both in the rich and developing world – to reduce these destabilising global trade imbalances we will enter an uncertain new era; and one that could yet make us pine for the days of the dominant greenback.
Link |
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They only function when open.
Last edited by Fintan on Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:19 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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RedMahna
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 884
Location: On or near a computer
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq. |
oops, shoulda remembered wha-happen to JFK when he dissed the fed reserve note, hmmm?
anyway, what exactly is the NWO interested in, complete slavery? i mean, in a nutshell, is it just getting back to lords and serfdom? if so, damn, it's def getting like that fast enuf over here in the u s of a.
must suck ass worse nearly everywhere else then.
btw, california is rumored as being our first failed state. seems we are on target, huh?
loved the audio. now exactly how are we getting out of this mess with our internet connection? there's way too much disinfo, misunderstanding, misinterpretation, etc, for minds to get together on stuff, to shout warnings, directions, or whatever. how can we avoid the shit hitting the fan before we all go, "duh, i get it?"
there are 2 philosophical questions universally:
why are we here?
where do we go after life?
and then there's this one:
now what?
red
ps - OMG there's this huge christian women's movement hyper-marketed, that came thru my town last weekend. the gals old and young walked and drove to the event like fucking zombies. bus loads passed by with all women like sheep to slaughter. fucking scary. how is it the internet hasn't crushed this and other mindless scorcery? i think the govt and other PTB has made plenty good use of their new toy, the internet. i hope we don't get a goddamned hitler who can twitter his/her way to superstardom.
sorry to say, i think the very first job on order is to dissolve religion. not spirituality. RELIGION. then perhaps we may be able to tackle why giving to caeser (IRS, Wall Street, bailouts, lobbyists, blood to military) is b-fucking-s.
i never thought i'd say anything quite so negative about religion. i apologize for hurting anyone's feelings. but i really do mean it - cuz religion has turned the majority of the world into unrealists waiting for the other magic foot to drop. (not that the first magic foot - or feat - of any religion was ever witnessed by a live person.)
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Fintan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Ok, below are the very quick denials in the media
about the secret talks reported by Robert Fisk above.
Before accepting the denials I think the fact that the
editor of the Independent also wrote (above) about
Fisk's story is significant. If he had doubts about the
story, then the editor would have let Fisk do a solo run
on it and kept the newspaper on the sidelines.
Gold surged on the news, and the dollar fell but then
recovered after the denials.
| Quote: | Saudi bank boss rubbishes dollar talk
News services
Saudi Arabia's Central Bank governor Muhammad al-Jasser has categorically denied reports that Gulf Arab states have held secret talks with Russia, China, Japan and France to replace the US dollar with a basket of currencies in the trading of oil.
In a report published today, UK newspaper the Independent said Gulf Arabs – together with China, Russia, Japan and France – are planning to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.
But this morning, Jasser, speaking to Bloomberg in Istanbul where he’s attending an International Monetary Fund summit, denied the report.
He said the Independent's story was “absolutely incorrect” and there has been “absolutely nothing” of that nature discussed between Saudi Arabia and other countries.
A source in the United Arab Emirates central bank also denied the report, telling Reuters that Gulf Arab oil exporters will stay with the dollar.
"They are going to stay with the dollar," the source told Reuters, asking not to be named.
"For so long oil pricing is in dollars and it would be difficult for producing countries to change."
Japanese Finance Minister Hirohisa Fujii told a news conference in Tokyo today that he “does not know anything about it,” when he was asked about the newspaper report.
Russia's Deputy Finance Minister Dmitry Pankin also denied the report, saying: "We did not discuss this at all."
Algerian Finance Minister Karim Djoudi told Reuters: "Oil producing countries need to stabilise revenues but...I don't see a need for oil trade to be denominated differently.
"But we are at the IMF conference where all sorts of subjects are raised and discussed," he added.
The Independent said secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.
The plans were confirmed to the newspaper by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong.
Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East.
"Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."
The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold.
An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.
The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick.
"One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," the newspaper quoted him as saying ahead of meetings this week of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.
But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.
Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. However, the paper said China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.
Chinese banking sources told the paper their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now.
"The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told the Independent.
"The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."
http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article194906.ece |
| Quote: | Saudi Bank Governor Denies Talks to Replace Dollar
By Camilla Hall
Oct. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Saudi Arabia hasn’t held talks with China and other countries on dropping the dollar as the currency for pricing oil, Saudi Central Bank Governor Muhammad al-Jasser said, denying a report in the U.K.’s Independent newspaper.
The Independent report is “absolutely incorrect” and there has been “absolutely nothing” of that nature discussed between Saudi Arabia, the world’s biggest oil exporter, and other countries, al-Jasser told reporters in Istanbul, where he’s attending an International Monetary Fund summit. The dollar pared losses after his remarks.
The London-based newspaper said today that Gulf oil producers and nations including China, Japan, Russia and Brazil had held secret talks on a nine-year plan to phase out the dollar in oil trade, and move toward pricing the fuel in a basket of currencies plus gold. It cited unidentified Gulf officials and unidentified Chinese bankers.
“I don’t give credence to this story,” said Simon Williams, a Dubai-based economist at HSBC Holdings Plc. “Short- term, it’s highly unlikely that oil will not continue to be priced in dollars.”
The dollar pared losses against the euro following al- Jasser’s comments, trading at $1.4725 as of 9:40 a.m. in London, from $1.4648 in New York yesterday. It weakened to $1.4749 earlier on the Independent story. It was at 89.10 yen, from 89.53 yesterday, after falling to 88.86.
Dollar Dependence
Criticism of the dollar’s role as the world’s main reserve currency has grown in the wake of the global financial crisis. China and Russia in June agreed to expand use of each other’s currencies in trade to reduce dependence on the dollar, and those countries plus Brazil and India -- the so-called BRIC nations -- have discussed buying each other’s bonds and swapping currencies. The dollar fell to a one-year low of $1.4844 per euro on Sept. 23.
Saudi Arabia, a key U.S. ally, pegs its currency to the U.S. dollar like most other oil-rich Gulf nations, and has resisted calls for a move away from the dollar in oil pricing as the U.S. currency lost value in recent years.
Iran and Venezuela raised the proposal at a meeting of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, which pumps about 40 percent of the world’s oil, in November 2007. The weaker dollar adds to costs for OPEC members who use oil revenue to buy goods priced in other currencies.
New Gulf Currency
Saudi Arabia and three other Gulf oil-producers are planning to create a shared currency that may allow them more freedom from U.S. monetary policy. As the region’s economies rebound faster than the U.S. from the global crisis, “the shortcomings of the dollar peg will become increasingly clear,” HSBC’s Williams said.
Other countries cited by the Independent as being involved in the secret plan also denied it.
Japanese Finance Minister Hirohisa Fujii said at a news conference in Tokyo today that he “doesn’t know anything about it,” when he was asked about the newspaper report.
Russia’s Finance Ministry isn’t holding talks on replacing the dollar for oil sales, Interfax news agency reported, citing Deputy Finance Minister Dmitry Pankin. Kuwaiti Oil Minister Sheikh Ahmed Al-Abdullah Al-Sabah told reporters today in Kuwait City that Gulf Arab states have no plans to drop the dollar for oil pricing.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=acJkUoNt0rEY |
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Peter
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1478
Location: The Canadian shield
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: Dollars to donuts? |
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Based on the fact that "cheap" oil allows and affords us the ability to thrive economically (some of us, at least) I would say that it is the petro-dollar that is the principle medium of international exchange.
That Special Drawing Rights ($DRs) be used to undermine the US economic hegemony is a natural progression of the "face-saving" oriental philosophy.
A new international currency might allow the U$ to devalue their currency abruptly. Talk about an economic revival......you have to die first in order to be raised from the dead... 
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The grand design, reflected in the face of Chaos. |
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RedMahna
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 884
Location: On or near a computer
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: |
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why would nations, particularly those whose businesses have world-wide control-credo and therefore strings on their governments, want to stay with the USD if it decreases their profits? they are not running charities.
even if we don't look at it from a let's-fuck-the-USA standpoint, one should expect no less than financial competitiveness from corporate conglomerates.
and why admit it universally until the deed is done?
red
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Peter
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1478
Location: The Canadian shield
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: Baker's dozen but we get the "hole" thing |
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Indeed, the typical "insider trading" situation. They plan, get their ducks in a row and then unleash the hounds....
The U$ knows and is complicit in all respects. This will be how the Fed gets off the hook. Blame the Economic terrorist$ for the crushing of the American people's savings and loans (as opposed to S&Ls in the generic sense) 
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Max Keiser says he is hearing the same
as Robert Fisk from his contacts --but that
the timescale is a lot sooner than 2018:
See Also:
Will a Basket of Currencies Replace the Dollar?
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/will-basket-currencies-replace-dollar
_________________
Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
Last edited by Fintan on Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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silverthread
Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 264
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well now....
I have to say :
The persons who DENY the 'Independents'-Story
speak with MoRE knowledge than editor-of-'Independent'....
Like :
"The Independent report is “absolutely incorrect”
and there has been “absolutely nothing” of that nature discussed
between Saudi Arabia, the world’s biggest oil exporter,
and other countries, al-Jasser told reporters in Istanbul,
where he’s attending an International Monetary Fund summit.
The dollar pared losses after his remarks."
AND :
"Other countries cited by the Independent
as being involved in the secret plan also denied it."
http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/fp/Saudis+deny+plan+replace+dollar/2071139/story.html
'ALL the countries mentioned by Fisk...
have completely denied the Indy's story,
which probably made some forex speculators very rich -'
...not to speak of the 'Gold-Speculator'!
Max Keiser , activist & former Stockbroker ???
wonder if he trades on the Forex....or is bullist for Gold!
Makes ya' Wonder if 'the Indy'...
made a sweet-deal to plant the story...
IT IS a known Fact :
That an Atlantic-SunSet of deVeloped-nations...
And a Pacific Sunrise of emerging-nations Has
been going on since 1990s ;
I say transition will be gradual & NOT abrupt....
NO...NEED TO :
Get ahead of R-Selves 
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steel , a diamond , and to know one's self.
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hawkwind
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 507
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: Things Are On The Move ... Look Out! |
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| Quote: | New Gold Record Despite Extreme Manipulation Tactics
By Patrick A. Heller
October 05, 2009
After settling on the COMEX above $1,000 for nine consecutive trading days, the price of gold was knocked down below that level at the close on Thursday, Sept. 24.
It was no accident that it happened exactly then.
First, there was a meeting of G-20 officials in Pittsburgh that began that day. The weakening U.S. dollar was certainly one of the major subjects. Because of the US dollar-destroying fiscal and monetary policies adopted over the past two years by the current and preceding administrations, a weak dollar has become a huge concern to other nations. Since the price of gold is effectively a report card on the strength of the dollar, gold’s price “had” to go down during the meeting to help the U.S. government’s negotiating position.
But that wasn’t the only reason the price of gold had to go under $1,000 that day. Sept. 24 was an options expiration day, with over 4,300 gold call contracts with a strike price of $1,000 per ounce. Had the price of gold settled over $1,000 that day, all of these contracts would have been exercised, which would require the almost immediate delivery of more than 430,000 ounces of physical gold. Quick delivery of that amount of gold would have exerted enormous pressure for much higher prices.
For a long time now, there are three standard times during the trading day when the price of gold is clobbered. The first is when the London markets open at 3 a.m Eastern Daylight Time. The second is when the U.S. COMEX market opens up about 8:30 a.m. The last is just after the London p.m. fix is reported.
The price of gold was attacked in this manner on Sept. 24, but buyers kept snapping up more gold, supporting the price over $1,000.
What it finally took to push gold below $1,000 was a major coordinated new tactic. The Federal Reserve announced that it was going to start withdrawing stimulus funds from the market. It also said it would scale back the short-term cash auctions in early 2010. At almost exactly the same time, the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, and the Swiss National Bank made virtually identical statements.
The timing of these announcements, and their matching of the message, just does not happen by chance. You can be sure that it was planned and coordinated.
Such announcements were predicated on the improvement of the world economy in the next few months. Merely talking about this prospect was enough to raise hopes in investors’ minds that somehow things will get better real soon. Gold fell, but not by that much. Still, the COMEX gold price did settle under $1,000 for the first of four consecutive trading days.
As a tactic, the announcements were brilliant. The strategy did not require that any of these central banks put up immediate liquidity into the markets. Actually, these central banks were not required to engage in any financial activity on Sept. 24. These announcements of plans do not necessarily mean that indicated future events will come to pass when the time comes. I’m virtually certain that none of them will, at least not within several months of when they supposedly will start.
Make no mistake; it took a huge international effort to bring the price of gold down on Sept. 24. Once the U.S. government saw that the recent announcement of the International Monetary Fund gold sale had flopped in suppressing the price of gold, it must have been obvious that the small interventions that worked in prior years are no longer effective. When the U.S. government has to take such extreme measures to hold down the gold price only a little bit – and it only works for a short time –that is a sign that the price of gold is close to a major increase.
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=7883 |
And now today ...
| Quote: | Breaking News: Eagles No, Buffaloes Yes
By David C. Harper
October 06, 2009
No proof one-ounce American Eagle gold or silver collector coins will be produced in 2009 by the U.S. Mint.
The bad news, cleared for release at noon Eastern Daylight time Oct. 6, doesn’t end there.
There will also be:
• No “W” mintmarked uncirculated silver American Eagle collector coins,
• No proof fractional gold American Eagles,
• No “W” uncirculated one-ounce gold American Eagles (the fractionals of this were killed at the end of last year),
• No Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set, which would include a “W” silver American Eagle, and
• No platinum American Eagle bullion coins.
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=7937 |
Wonder where all the gold and silver went?? 
  
- Hawk
PS
Central Banks Hate Gold
_________________
What if we had ideas that could think for themselves?
What if one day our dreams no longer needed us?
When these things occur and are held to be true,
the time will be upon us, the time of Angels. - Doctor Who? (kid's show?)
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Fintan
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Posts: 3909
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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re:
hawkwind:things are on the move.......
Yeah the game against gold is running out of steam.
Short-term there is a downside risk because gold
is in contango. But long-term hold still looks good.
| Quote: | Gold move not confirmed by backwardation
No gold is not in a backwardation and neither is silver. The carry available is + 0.26% for gold viz the December contract and +0.08% for silver viz the December contract as well. Spot gold is 1035.70 and silver 17.165. These are all very bearish signs indeed. We have gone from a state in both markets where there was no carry available to positive carry a few weeks ago. Gold is more likely to fall $200 here than rise.....
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gold-move-not-confirmed-backwardation |
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Peter
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1478
Location: The Canadian shield
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject: Theres gold in them thar bills! |
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For the past few months I have investigated purchasing gold bullion. Quite the exercise!
I don't have to sell any firstborns but I am conastantly being told to buy gold "certificates" or minted coins or gold ETF's, or precious metal mutual funds as they are all much "safer". The question is, of course, for whom?
To buy 10 oz (minimum order quantity) of bullion 999 (or 995, I can't find my notes) fine, requires:
A purchase agreement for delivery of the gold to my bank.
The commision to the bank for the transaction.
Payment for certification of the quality and weight of the gold.
Delivery payment charge.
Both sales taxes (14.75% total on the purchase)
The cost of a safety deposit box to hold the gold (optional, as I can leave with them in my pocket...)
Should I try to sell the bullion, the buyer would normally oblige me to pay for the certification of the gold prior to sale.
All in all, at $1,000 per oz, it would be about $1,200 per oz.
Still, somewhat cheaper than minted coins in terms of the actual metal.
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hawkwind
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 507
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Theres gold in them thar bills! |
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| Peter wrote: |
All in all, at $1,000 per oz, it would be about $1,200 per oz.
Still, somewhat cheaper than minted coins in terms of the actual metal. |
I'm not an expert but your logic would normally be sound. The only issue (fear) I have is ... with the US Mint suspending the production of collectible bullion coins for 2009 and the central bank's desperation to suppress the spot price ... and don't forget Congress passing legislature to audit the Federal Reserve ... you may have created too much of a paper trail with your bank if shit hits the fan. Yes, American bullion coins are less pure (22K) ... but they are much more liquid and you can find a seller who only wants 10-20 bucks over spot. Just my opinion ... silver on the other hand is so under valued that any purchase is a good one ... 
Best of luck and fortune to you!
- Hawk
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Fintan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Robert Fisk has a follow up to his exclusive yesterday.
Only thing is...
I don't know about this 9 year timescale....
It could be a lot sooner......
Big Questions:
Who went On the record/Off the record with Fisk
& Why
& Why now?
| Quote: | A financial revolution with profound political implications
Such large financial movements will have
major political effects in the Middle East
Robert Fisk - Wednesday, 7 October 2009
The plan to de-dollarise the oil market, discussed both in public and in secret for at least two years and widely denied yesterday by the usual suspects – Saudi Arabia being, as expected, the first among them – reflects a growing resentment in the Middle East, Europe and in China at America's decades-long political as well as economic world dominance.
Nowhere has this more symbolic importance than in the Middle East, where the United Arab Emirates alone holds $900bn (£566bn) of dollar reserves and where Saudi Arabia has been quietly co-ordinating its defence, armaments and oil policies with the Russians since 2007.
This does not indicate a trade war with America – not yet – but Arab Gulf regimes have been growing increasingly restive at their economic as well as political dependence on Washington for many years. Of the $7.2 trillion in international reserves, $2.1trn is held by Arab countries – China holds about $2.3trn – and the nations interested in moving away from dollar-trading in oil are believed to hold over 80 per cent of international dollar reserves.
Saudi Arabia's denials of any such ambitions were regarded by Arab bankers as a normal part of Gulf politics. The Saudis, of course, managed to deny that Iraq had invaded Kuwait in 1990 – even when Saddam Hussein's legions stood along the Saudi frontier, until the US broadcast the news of Iraq's aggression to the world.
Saudi bankers are well aware that in nine years' time – the current timeframe for a transition away from the dollar in oil trading to Japanese and Chinese currencies, the euro, gold and a possible new Gulf currency – China will have doubled its national income to $10trn (assuming a growth rate of 7 per cent), at which point the US might hold no more than 20 per cent of the world's gross income.
Such massive financial movements, encouraged by the de-dollarisation of oil, will have enormous political effects in the Middle East, especially if economic superpower rivalry between America and China comes to dominate the Arab world. Will American economic support for Israel remain as loyal in nine years' time if China and the Arabs are setting the pace in global financial markets? Indeed – perhaps with this in mind – some Israeli financiers have been expressing interest over the past two years in non-dollar Arab bank investments. Whenever a change of this magnitude takes place over a number of years, it has to be commenced in secrecy.
Nor can it be denied that the very project to take oil trading away from the dollar market has deep political roots. The collapse of the Soviet Union has allowed the US to dominate the Middle East more than any other world region, and the Arabs – who can no longer contemplate an oil boycott of the kind they imposed on the West after the 1973 Middle East war – are still anxious to prove that they can flex their economic power to bring about change.
Saudi Arabia's pan-Arab offer to recognise Israel and its security in return for an Israeli withdrawal from occupied Arab land is not – according to the Saudis themselves – indefinite. If they are ignored or rebuffed, then they can search for other allies through new financial institutions to force a new Middle East peace. China will be happy to help.
Link |
Other related articles in the UK Independent today:
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Fintan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Robert Fisk Interviewed On Al-Jazeera
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Fintan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | China Defaults, Currency Basket Threatens Dollar
TSF – October 6, 2009 - By Janet Tavakoli
Robert Fisk exposed revived discussions by the Gulf States, China, France, Japan, Brazil, and Russia to replace the dollar as the benchmark oil trading currency with a basket of currencies including gold within 10 years.
This proposal is not new and discussions have been ongoing for decades. But other extraordinary moves in the capital markets suggest we should take this threat to the dollar’s position very seriously. For example, China has $2.3 trillion in currency reserves (about 70% in dollars), and China knows how to get its way.
In November 2008, Chinese banks said they would no longer play by our rules. Top tier banks (Bank of China and Industrial and Commercial Bank of China) reneged on derivatives contracts. They failed to come up with billions in collateral on dollar/yen FX trades, which were out of the money after the yen’s October appreciation. This should have been headline news in every financial newspaper, but it wasn’t. Chinese banks defaulted.
They may have been partially motivated by U.S. malfeasance in the capital marketsAsia. The U.S. squandered its credibility and our cover-ups have done nothing to restore it.
Most credit support annex agreements would say that closing out these trades would be an event of default, and then the cross default on all the trades would kick in with the same counterparty. But the credit of the Chinese banks was better than many of their counterparties. Everyone was forced to renegotiate contracts with the Chinese banks.
From the perspective of the derivatives markets, this is earth shattering. What would have happened if AIG had done the same thing? (Hey, Goldman, UBS, and others…you want your collateral? Well…Stuff It!)
At the end of August 2009, China signaled that state owned oil consumers: Air China, COSCO, and China Eastern could default
If we had been paying attention, the U.S. should have done everything in its power to correct our mistakes, clean up the mess in our financial system—instead of sweeping it under the carpet—and turned our efforts to maintaining the credibility of the capital markets and the credibility of the dollar.
http://fedupusa.org/2009/10/07/guest-post-tavakoli-on-the-reserve-currency-discussions/ |
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