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GaryGo
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 713
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 Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:55 am Post subject: 6 Audios: Iranian Revolution News & Discussion |
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| Quote: | 
Prof Muhammad Sahimi:
Audio interview by Fintan Dunne
is further down this thread HERE |
| Quote: | 
New Audio:
Audio interview by Fintan Dunne
is further down this thread HERE |
| Quote: | 
Audio:
Iran Analysis by Fintan Dunne
is further down this thread HERE |
GaryGo Started this
Topic - Posting Earlier:
| Quote: | 
Iranians stop to look at the morning's newspapers
at a street kiosk in central Tehran today.
Rivals both claim victory in Iran's election
Saturday, 13 June 2009 - By Anna Johnson and Brian Murphy, Associated Press
Iran's Interior Ministry claimed hard-line incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was heading for a surprise landslide victory today in the country's stormy presidential elections. But his pro-reform rival countered that he was the clear victor and accused authorities of voter fraud.
The dispute sharply boosted tensions and raised fears of a standoff after an intense month-long race between the combative president and his main challenger, Mir Hossein Mousavi. A large turnout at the polls had boosted victory hopes for Mousavi, who is backed by a growing youth-oriented movement.
At a press conference around midnight, Mousavi declared himself "definitely the winner" based on "all indications from all over Iran." He accused the the government of "manipulating the people's vote" to keep Ahmadinejad in power and suggested the reformist camp would stand up to challenge the results.
"It is our duty to defend people's votes. There is no turning back," Mousavi said, alleging widespread irregularities.
There were worries of protests by Mousavi supporters if he is declared the loser, though there was no sign of gatherings this morning. About a dozen supporters sitting on chairs outside one of his campaign offices in central Tehran said they were waiting to hear from their candidate before deciding what action, if any, to take.
Bringing any showdown into the streets would certainly face a swift backlash from security forces. The political chief of the powerful Revolutionary Guard cautioned Wednesday it would crush any "revolution" against the Islamic regime by Mousavi's "green movement."
And it was unclear how many Iranians were even aware of the claims of fraud, amid widespread communications disruptions that began in the later hours of voting yesterday — suggesting an information clampdown. State television and radio only broadcast the Interior Ministry's vote count.
Nationwide, the text messaging system remained down today and pro-Mousavi Web sites were blocked or difficult to access. Text messaging is frequently used by many Iranians — especially young Mousavi supporters — to spread election news.
In Tehran's streets this morning, Iranians heading to work gathered around newspaper stands to read the headlines, which did not specifically declare a victor — or carry word of Mousavi's claims.
Mousavi's paper, Kalemeh Sabz, or the Green Word, and other reformist dailies were ordered to change their headlines originally declaring Mousavi the victor, according to editors at the papers, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. The papers had blank spots where articles were removed.
The messy and tense outcome capped a long day of voting. It was extended for several hours to accommodate a huge turnout that had people waiting for hours at polling stations in blistering heat and nighttime downpours.
Mousavi, a 1980s-era prime minister, was counting on an outpouring from what's been called his "green tsunami" — the signature color of his campaign and the new banner for reformists seeking wider liberties at home and a gentler face for Iran abroad. He raised hopes that a new leadership might embrace President Barack Obama's invitation to open dialogue and take a less confrontational path with the West over Iran's nuclear program.
The heavy turnout had been expected to help Mousavi. But moments after Mousavi's news conference, Iran's state news agency IRNA reported Ahmadinejad the winner. After what had been seen as a close contest, the overwhelming margin for Ahmadinejad in the Interior Ministry's partial results was startling.
By this morning, Ahmadinejad had 64.7 percent and Mousavi had 32.2 percent with 82 percent of all votes counted, said Kamran Daneshjoo, a senior official with the Interior Ministry, which oversees the voting.
Even in Mousavi's hometown province of Tabriz in northwestern Iran, the ministry claimed Ahmadinejad received more than 60 percent of the vote.
Based on the ministry's figures, around 75 percent of the 46.2 million eligible voters went to the polls.
Mousavi appealed to Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, to intervene and stop what he said were violations of the law. Khamenei holds ultimate political authority in Iran. "I hope the leader's foresight will bring this to a good end," Mousavi said.
Mousavi said some polling stations were closed early with people still waiting to vote, that voters were prevented from casting ballots and that his observers were expelled from some counting sites.
Authorities "should not assume that by manipulating people's vote and staying in power for a day, for a year or two, (they) can win people's satisfaction," he said.
During the voting, some communications across Iran were disrupted. Internet connections slowed dramatically in some spots, hindering the operations of news organizations including The Associated Press. It was not immediately clear what had caused the disruptions.
About a dozen Ahmadinejad supporters pelted a Mousavi office in Tehran with tear gas canisters, but no one was injured, said Saeed Shariati, head of Mousavi's Web campaign. The attack could not be independently confirmed.
Iran does not allow international election monitors. During the 2005 election, when Ahmadinejad won the presidency, there were some allegations of vote rigging from losers, but the claims were never investigated.
Iran's ruling clerics put their stamp on the elections from the very beginning by deciding who can run. More than 470 people sought to join the presidential race, but only Ahmadinejad and three rivals were cleared.
Still, within those bounds, Iran's elections are among the few in the Middle East that can see surprises — and this year's campaign riveted the world's attention with its wide-open passions and Western-style tactics, including a savvy Web campaign and all-night street parties by Mousavi's young backers.
The outcome will not sharply alter Iran's main policies or sway major decisions, such as possible talks with Washington or nuclear policies. Those crucial issues rest with the ruling clerics headed by the unelected Khamenei.
But the election focused on what the office can influence: boosting Iran's sinking economy, pressing for greater media and political freedoms, and being Iran's main envoy to the world.
Only weeks ago, Ahmadinejad seemed ready to coast to re-election with the reformist ranks in disarray. But Mousavi's bid began to gain traction with young voters with his Web outreach and hip "green" rallies. Suddenly, the 67-year-old Mousavi became the surprise hero of a powerful youth-driven movement and heading into the vote, it looked like the momentum was with him.
In Washington, Obama said the "robust debate" during the campaign suggests a possibility of change in Iran, which is under intense international pressure over its nuclear program.
"Ultimately the election is for the Iranians to decide," said Obama. "But ... you're seeing people looking at new possibilities. And whoever ends up winning the election in Iran, the fact that there's been a robust debate hopefully will help advance our ability to engage them in new ways."
The intensity was reflected by a rush to the polls on Friday. Some waited for hours in temperatures that hit 45 C in Iran's central desert. In Tehran, a bride in her wedding gown cast her ballot. Families making traditional Friday visits to relatives' graves filed into polling stations in the capital's sprawling cemetery.
In Tehran's affluent northern districts — which strongly back Mousavi — voters waited for up to an hour to cast ballots. Mahdi Hosseini, a university student, sharply criticized Ahmadinejad for "degrading Iran's image in the eyes of the world."
Ahmadinejad has brought international condemnation with his repeated questioning of the Holocaust. Mousavi also hammered him over mismanaging the economy, burdened by double-digit inflation and chronic unemployment despite vast oil and gas riches.
The race will go to a runoff on June 19 if no candidate receives more than 50 percent of the vote. Two other candidates — conservative former Revolutionary Guard commander Mohsen Rezaei and moderate former parliament speaker Mahdi Karroubi — only got small fractions of the votes, according to the ministry.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/rivals-both-claim-victory-in-irans-election-1704310.html |
Last edited by GaryGo on Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:53 am; edited 7 times in total |
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GaryGo
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Fintan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: |
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It looks like Mousavi won this election - not Ahmadinejad.
--The number of women voters was large --and they were voting for Mousavi.
--In the final days of campaigning, the Mousavi rallies were much larger.
--And the oficial claimed vote of almost 63% for Ahmadinejad is frankly laughable.
In any event, the real power in Iran is still neither candidate, but the
Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Khamenei:
| Quote: | Supporters of Ahmadinejad,
Mousavi clash in Tehran
Sat Jun 13, 2009
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Hundreds of supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and moderate challenger Mirhossein Mousavi clashed in Tehran on Saturday after a landslide victory for Ahmadinejad in a presidential election, a Reuters witness said.
Police using batons moved to disperse the demonstrators who were staging a sit-in to protest against Ahmadinejad's victory. They were chasing and arresting some of the protestors.
The witness saw two men being carried away from the scene at Vanak square in the Iranian capital. Some people were having fistfights.
The violence broke out as Iran's Interior Minister announced that Ahmadinejad had won Friday's election, gaining 62.6 percent of the vote in an election which Mousavi has criticized for violations.
Up to 2,000 Mousavi supporters then staged a sit-in in the middle of the road, clapping hands and chanting: "Mousavi take back our vote! What happened to our vote?." They also chanted at security forces: "Police, brother, you're one of us."
Dozens of riot police were standing nearby.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps/idUSTRE55C11920090613 |
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Rumpl4skn
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Another scam to not only keep the CIA puppet in power, but in the offing, further and more clearly identify Iran as a "rogue state that is an enemy of American deMOCKracy", no doubt. And the late night talk show comedians will quip, "How dare they vote rig an election - that is clearly a patent infringement of the GOP!"
Ahmadinejad's regime will now become predictably become more brutal in it's suppression of the rival factions, I would guess.
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Fintan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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The NWO has done everything it can to hold back democracy in Iran.
Ahmadinejad was a nobody who play-acted as a polarizing figure.
His 'isolation' of Iran was an aid to a religious regime which has always
been the ally of the NWO: both of them want to slow social progress.
Reliable reports speak of women on the streets --breaking up paving
stones to engage in battle with the police & revolutionary guards.
I'm not surprised they are pissed off.
This smacks of a full-blown intellectual/middleclass revolt.
The following Sky News report gives a flavor of what
is going on in Iran. (Though it backs the official result.)
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Rumpl4skn
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, FD, I get all of that. I didn't mean to imply that this is not a power struggle within Iran between good and evil. Obviously it is. My point is that the unethical, rigged election is another selling point for eventual US intervention - or at least, another "go get the bad guys" rallying cry that can be used to a dozen different ends in regards to US foreign policy. If it weren't, it wouldn't be all over the MSM right now, it would be being brushed off as "insignificant" and unworthy of front pages. There is entirely too much traction for this story in the MSM for it not to be quite a desirable item.
The US military is still the juicer for the global banksters, making sure anyone who doesn't plan on playing ball obediently knows the consequences, by previous example. And Ahmadinejad is now a more obvious 'bad guy' (conveniently under control) who helpfully further pisses off the trigger-happy war-prone (MIC politicians, i.e, all of them), so the defense industry's murder machine can "protect us."
Another example of the delicate balance the NWO must maintain over the US military's ability to go kick ass when areas need to be secured for Western markets, while making sure each and every campaign further demoralizes the troops and stretches the military budget. Using up this massive military gradually, the inevitable victim of slow attrition on the road to global government, so that it's own fighting force (what's left of the UN member state's militaries) can reign effectively unchallenged.
If the NWO weren't going to profit politically, socially, financially and strategically from this "rigged election", this rival never would have been allowed access to the system, or his message would never have gotten out, period. I know this suggests a level of control within Iran that would seem difficult to procure, but... if they can rocket a totally unknown to power that quickly and install him as president, what can't they do?
I calls 'em like I sees 'em. And my 3 remaining friends will vouch for that. 
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"No matter what happens, ever... there's ALWAYS at least one reason. And the top reason is ALWAYS money." |
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GaryGo
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Yep Fintan - WMSN reports of Ahmadinejad are all negative yet "report" he is the winner. - Pretty basic disinfo
IYAM - The middle class are onto his Punch and Judy act with the west and are fed up with him helping the West & Israel sow the seeds of Tension & future conflict. - In the name of reverse Psychology -To Israel and the Holocaust he is their best friend and never forgets his lines.
Ahmadinejad is to Israel what Ian Paisley was to the IRA - And Paisley was the best recruiting sergeant the PIRA ever had.
The big question of course is - how much power the demonstrators really have and how far will they go??
In the DDR the revolution of Oct 89 really happened in Leipzig a few weeks before all the action at the Berlin Wall.
The crucial event came in Leipzig with a showdown with the Stassi and the "Monday" marches(every Monday)
and it boils down to this...... Are the people gonna take it to the police big time and are the police gonna open fire on their own kind?
In Leipzig they didn't and the people prevailed which is why Leipzig is called the hero city.
GG
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| Quote: | Israel tacticians want Mahmoud Ahmadinejad win
Abraham Rabinovich – TheAustralian June 13, 2009
A SENIOR Israeli official said yesterday the consensus among his colleagues in Jerusalem was that a victory for the hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the Iranian elections would be in Israel's best interest.
"His extremism and his calls for Israel's destruction have pushed the international community to try to head off Iran's nuclear program," he said.
A victory by the relatively moderate Mir Hossein Mousavi would not stop the nuclear program, the official said, but it could lull the international community into thinking the threat was over.
Since Mr Ahmadinajad's election in 2005, he has repeatedly called for Israel to be wiped off the map, and denied the Holocaust happened. And he has argued that the Israelis were punishing the Palestinians because of what the Germans did to the Jews in World War II, and called on European leaders to provide the Jews with territory so they could move their state to that continent.
This extreme aggressiveness combined with Mr Ahmadinajad's flaunting of Iran's nuclear program has clearly marked him as Israel's leading enemy.
However, in the run-up to the Iranian polls, Mr Ahmadinejad's re-election has come to be seen as a strategic advantage. "There is no one who has served Israel's information program better than him," wrote columnist Ben Caspi in the daily Ma'ariv yesterday.
Israeli security officials note that decisions regarding major issues such as the nuclear program are made in Iran not by the president, regardless of who he is, but by Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and a small group of senior clerics.
"From an operational point of view, it doesn't make a difference who wins," said one official. And a Foreign Ministry official who deals with the Iranian issue said: "From an informational point of view, he (Ahmadinejad) is the best thing that's happened to us."
The head of the Iranian desk at Israel Radio, Menashe Amir, said there was no basic difference between the four candidates for the Iranian presidency.
"The difference is in their style of speech," he said. "Ahmadinejad is blunt. The others try to cloak their real thoughts with ingratiating words. At least with Ahmadinejad his words reflect what he thinks. I'd be very happy if he's elected again."
Amir, who monitors the Iranian media closely and is in telephone communication with many Iranians, said Ayatollah Khamenei might have ordered the Republican Guard to fix the election results to ensure an Ahmadinejad victory.
"If these elections were truly free, Ahmadinejad wouldn't get more than 15per cent of the vote, mostly from rural areas," he said.
Another reason some Israelis are hoping for an Ahmadinejad victory, while holding their nose, is that the unprecedented level of passion that has been revealed by the Iranian election campaign during the past few weeks, particularly among young voters, may be a signal that the long-awaited social explosion against clerical restrictions may be close, even imminent. The emotional engagement of voters is seen as higher than that in the 1997 elections, which brought reformer Mohammad Khatami to power.
If Mr Ahmadinejad is chosen for another four years, particularly if the victory is seen to be the result of ballot manipulation, the country could erupt.
Israel officials have noted the warning by a senior figure in the Republican Guard that his forces would confront any attempt at a "velvet revolution" by Mousavi supporters similar to the street demonstrations that brought down the Czech government in 1989.
There is concern that a Mousavi victory would make it more likely that Washington would arrive at an agreement with Tehran permitting Iran to build nuclear energy reactors for peaceful purposes, as US President Barack Obama suggested in his Cairo speech this month. This would put Iran only a few months away from achieving a nuclear weapon, if it wanted to build one.
Israelis have no ill-feelings towards Iran and admire its culture. The two countries have no common border and have never engaged in a war, although the Islamic Republic actively supports Hezbollah and the Palestinian militants.
Israelis have never understood the virulence that Iranian leaders, particularly Mr Ahmadinejad, express towards Israel. Iran has the largest community of Jews in the Muslim world, and they are permitted to practise their religion freely, and are represented in the Iranian parliament. A large number of former Iranian Jews live in Israel, among them two ex-chiefs of staff, a former air force commander and a former president.
In contrast to the sophisticated assessments of Israeli strategists, however, the bulk of the public would feel reassured by a victory for the Iranian moderates.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25627629-15084,00.html
Last updated 13/06/2009 |
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Fintan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Reformist leaders placed under house arrest
Iranian sources say reformist leaders, including presidential candidates Mousavi and Karoubi, placed under house arrest. Police forces deploy in Tehran University to counter potential protests, dozens of journalists detained...
Meanwhile, the police have prepared to close other universities in the country, fearing students will stage mass demonstrations in protest of President Ahmadinejad's disputed electoral win.
more |
Here's video of Iranian security forces retreating
ahead of a protest against the election outcome.
Vali-ye Asr, near the Interior Ministry, I think:
| Quote: | Rumpl4skn:
Ahmadinejad is now a more obvious 'bad guy' (conveniently under control) who helpfully further pisses off the trigger-happy war-prone (MIC politicians, i.e, all of them), so the defense industry's murder machine can "protect us." |
Unfortunately for them, his sham role is now too obvious to many!
And the web/text systems are in the hands of those very people.
Which has proved pivotal:
| Quote: | The aftermath of the election has shown one important difference from the past: it is harder than ever for the authorities in a relatively sophisticated country like Iran to clamp down on dissent.
Reports here say that the bureau of the respected Al-Arabiya 24-hour news station has been closed. Action has been taken against other foreign journalists. BBC Online has been blocked from time to time, and so have mobile phone services.
Yet people right across the country have been kept fully informed of what is going on - there are so many ways people can get the news nowadays.
Realising this, even Iran's own state broadcaster (IRIB) has been showing pictures of the worst of Saturday's rioting in Tehran, a decision that may well have been taken at a very high level.
The Islamic republic has reached a difficult moment in its history.
Everything now depends on whether Mr Ahmadinejad can quieten things down without creating more anger on the streets.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8099374.stm |
That is "information technology at it's most strategic.
| Quote: | GaryGo:
The middle class are onto his Punch and Judy act with the west and are fed up
with him helping the West & Israel sow the seeds of Tension & future conflict. |
That's the regime's big problem. Students and youth they lost long ago.
But a regime knows it is in trouble when the guy in the street has
a rock in one hand and a briefcase in the other!
| Quote: |  |
Meanwhile, the word on the street is:
| Quote: | “Death to the coup d’état!” chanted a surging crowd of several thousand protesters,
many of whom wore Mr. Moussavi’s signature bright green campaign colors,
as they marched in central Tehran on Saturday afternoon.
“Death to the dictator!”
Link |
Death to the Dictator, eh?
Them's fightin' words.
More on the strategic information war:
| Quote: | The storm of YouTube videos and blogs pouring out from Iran's cities make one telling point, about the implausiblity of the figures ever since the first results came in: Ahmadinejad was always in front by precisely the same margin, two to one, right across the country, even though his support was known to be weaker in the cities.
The fury won't make much difference. We should assume the election result stands. But it will be a surprise if Ahmadinejad can ignore the profound shift which the past few weeks have made in Iran.
The passion for change displayed by Iran's urban youth, particularly its women, gives Ahmadinejad new problems, on top of his old ones, which were already serious. To keep the bedrock of his support, he has to keep his bargain with the poor - to pay them the benefits of Iran's vast oil wealth.
But the slump in the oil price made that hard, and even though the price is now rising, food and fuel subsidies are a huge strain on Iran's budget. If the poll was indeed rigged and his support among the poor is much lower than reported, he will have a problem controlling that resentment.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6497271.ece |
Propaganda outlet Russia Today has a news report
which accepts the official outcome and downplays the
scale of popular resistance:
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evelyn
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm ... The US has no intention of engaging Iran in a war using "demoralized" troops with a stretched budget - unless Iran, NK, and others join together to militarily attack the Western axis of evil-doers, in which case the US and allies would bomb them off the maps. Besides, the top buyers of Iran oil/gas are US buddies: Japan, China, India, South Korea, Italy, Turkey, France, South Africa, Russia, Taiwan and Greece, and BigBusiness is so interlinked that a win for one is a dividend for all.
Iran election results are sideshow, as were the US elections 2000 and 2004 and 2008 ... - a bonanza for bloggers, many of whom think they know the political inner workings of Iran and the US and all the world. Mousavi would/will be as much a "surprise hero" as Barry Obama.
Back in '79 the "left" referred to the overthrow of the Shah as the Iranian Revolution, but soon backed off that as there was going to be nil "progress" and so referred to it as a coup instead, although some socialists still refer to it as the revolution that struck a massive blow to US imperialism in the Middle East. Yep, Bubba, a massive blow (job).
Never mind that Ayatollah Khomeini spent 14 years exiled in Iraq, during the grooming and support of our man Saddam, and later to France to plot the 1979 overthrow of the Shah, which is also the year TPTB installed Saddam in Iraq. And, oddly enough 1979 was the year I watched the Sandinistas enter Managua after Somoza high-tailed it to Miami.
One would almost think that TPTB support a certain number of revolutions on a regular basis, just for a show of visible "resistance" for the political change audience who keep buying tickets.
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There is a side of every competitor that wants to leave his opponent lifeless and demoralized on the side of the road. And then there is that other, darker side. |
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duane
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 554
Location: western pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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it's the economy, stupid (not directed at anyone, just using the phrase)
| Quote: | Iran's 'Stolen' Election:
a Hardline Demagouge's Victory Over a 'Reformer'?
Not So Fast
By Phil Wilayto, AlterNet. Posted June 14, 2009.
The real clash between Mousavi and Ahmadinejad is based on who their supporters are and, crucially, different approaches to the economy
As this is being written, official announcements in Iran today of a landslide victory by incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are being met with cries of “fraud” by supporters of his principal challenger, former Prime Minister Mir-Hossein Mousavi.
The New York Times is reporting that “at least one person had been shot dead in clashes with the police in Vanak Square in Tehran. Smoke from burning vehicles and tires hung over the city late Saturday.”
It seems clear which side has started the violence. From Sunday''s Times:
“'Death to the coup d’état!' chanted a surging crowd of several thousand protesters, many of whom wore Mr. Moussavi’s [sic] signature bright green campaign colors, as they marched in central Tehran on Saturday afternoon. 'Death to the dictator!' Farther down the street, clusters of young men hurled rocks at a phalanx of riot police officers, and the police used their batons to beat back protesters. There were reports of demonstrations in other major Iranian cities as well. ... As night settled in, the streets in northern Tehran that recently had been the scene of pre-election euphoria were lit by the flames of trash fires and blocked by tipped trash bins and at least one charred bus. Young men ran through the streets throwing paving stones at shop windows, and the police pursued them.”
(Note: Northern Tehran is the more affluent part of the city. There were no reports of protest in the much poorer southern part of the capital.)
While there's still time to rationally look at the elections, I'd like to offer a few observations.
The dominant view among Western commentators, as well as some progressive members of the Iranian diaspora, is that Mousavi is a "reformer" who favors loosening restrictions on civil liberties within Iran, while being more open to a less hostile relationship with the West. Ahmadinejad, on the other hand, is described as a "hardliner" who demagogically appeals to the poor, while making deliberately provocative statements about the United States and Israel in order to bolster his standing in the Islamic world.
In my opinion, both of the above characterizations are superficial. The fundamental contradiction between the two leading candidates has to do with their respective bases of support and, more importantly, their different approaches to the economy.
Ahmadinejad, himself born into rural poverty, clearly has the support of the poorer classes, especially in the countryside, where nearly half the population lives. Why? In part because he pays attention to them, makes sure they receive some benefits from the government and treats them and their religious views and traditions with respect. Mousavi, on the other hand, the son of an urban merchant, clearly appeals more to the urban middle classes, especially the college-educated youth. This being so, why would anyone be surprised that Ahmadinejad carried the vote by a clear majority? Are there now more yuppies in Iran than poor people?
Why is there so little discussion of the issue of class in this election? Is it because so many professional and semi-professional commentators on Iran are themselves from the same class as Mousavi's supporters, and so instinctively identify with them? Myself, I'm a worker, and a former union organizer. When I watched the videos and viewed the photos of the pro-Mousavi rallies in Tehran and other cities, I didn't feel elated – I felt a chill. To me, this didn't look like a liberal reform movement, it felt like a movement whose real target is a government that exercises a "preferential option for the poor," to use the words of Christian liberation theology.
How about the economy?
A big issue in Iran -- virtually never discussed in the U.S. media -- is how to interpret Article 44 of the country's constitution. That article states that the economy must consist of three sectors: state-owned, cooperative and private, and that "all large-scale and mother industries" are to be entirely owned by the state. This includes the oil and gas industries, which provide the government with the majority of its revenue. This is what enables the government, in partnership with the large charity foundations, to fund the vast social safety net that allows the country's poor to live much better lives than they did under the U.S.-installed Shah.
In 2004, Article 44 was amended to allow for some privatization. Just how much, and how swiftly that process should proceed, is a fundamental dividing line in Iranian politics. Mousavi has promised to speed up the privatization process. And when he first announced he would run for the presidency, he called for moving away from an “alms-based “ economy (PressTV, 4/13/09), an obvious reference to Ahmadinejad's policies of providing services and benefits to the poor.
In addition to their different class bases and approaches to the economy, Ahmadinejad presents an uncompromising front against the West, and especially against the U.S. government. This is a source of great national pride, and has produced some positive results. For example, President Obama has now actually admitted, at least in part, that it was the U.S. that in 1953 overthrew the democratically elected government of Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh.
The whole idea that tossing Ahmadinejad out of office would make it easier to change U.S. policy toward Iran is, in my opinion, very naive. Was Dr. Mossadegh a crazy demagogue? No, but he did lead the movement to nationalize Iran's oil industry. If Mousavi, as president, were to strongly state that he would refuse to consider any surrender of Iran's sovereign right to develop nuclear power for peaceful energy purposes, that he would continue to support the resistance organizations Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza, that he would continue to try and increase Iran's political role in the Middle East, and that he would defend state ownership of the oil and gas industries, would the Western media portray him as a reasonable man?
Further, there's the nature of Mousavi's election campaign. Obama called it a “robust” debate, which it certainly was, and a good refutation of the lie that Iran has no democracy. But it is also a political movement, one capable of drawing large crowds out into the streets, ready to engage in street battles with the president's supporters and now the police.
Is it possible that the U.S. government, its military and its 16 intelligence agencies are piously standing on the sidelines of this developing conflict, respecting Iran's right to work out its internal differences on its own? Could we expect that approach from the same government that still maintains its own 30-year sanctions against Iran, is responsible for three sets of U.N.-imposed sanctions, annually spends $70-90 million to fund “dissident” organizations within Iran and, according to the respected investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, actually has U.S. military personnel on the ground within Iran, supporting terrorist organizations like the Jundallah and trying to foment armed rebellions against the government?
The point has been made that U.S. neocons were hoping for an Ahmadinejad victory, on the theory that he makes a convenient target for Iran-bashers. But the neocons are no longer in power in Washington. They got voted out of office and are back to writing position papers for right-wing think tanks. We now have a “pragmatic” administration, one that would like to first dialog with the countries it seeks to control.
I think what is important to realize is that Washington wasn't just hoping for a “reform” candidate to win the election – it's been hoping for an anti-government movement that looks to the West for its political and economic inspiration. Mousavi backer and former President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani is a free-market advocate and businessman whom Forbes magazine includes in its list of the world's richest people. Does Rafsanjani identify with or seek to speak for the poor? Does Mousavi?
What kind of Iran are the Mousavi forces really hoping to create? And why is Washington -- whose preference for “democracy” is trumped every time by its insatiable appetite for raw materials, cheap labor, new markets and endless profits -- so sympathetic to the "reform" movements in Iran and in every other country whose people have nationalized its own resources?
Would Iran be better off with a president who, instead of qualifying everything he says about the Holocaust, just came out directly and said, “Look, there's no question that millions of Jewish people were murdered in a campaign of genocide, but how does that justify creating a Jewish state on land that is the ancestral home of the Palestinians?” That would certainly make the job of anti-war activists much easier -- and if you look hard enough, you can find something close to those words in Ahmadinejad's statements.
But it wouldn't be enough. The U.S. government and its complementary news media would just find another hook on which to hang their demonization of Iran and its government.
The days ahead promise to be challenging ones for all those who oppose war, sanctions and interference in the internal affairs of the Islamic Republic of Iran. As we pursue that work, it would be good not to get caught up in what is sure to be a tsunami of criticism of a government trying to resolve a crisis that in all likelihood is not entirely homegrown. |
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silverthread
Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 264
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Fintan wrote :
That is_ "information technology at it's most strategic."
Hey Fintan ,
don't ya' just luv it
When their :
ol' tired ; childish 'PLANS'....Fall-Apart....I know I Do.
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Fintan
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 6100
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Well their plan was to get another few years out of Ahmadinejad.
And it looks like that plan is coming apart.
| Quote: | duane:
it's the economy, stupid...... |
Yes it's good to factor in the economic issues. That article though, is way
too generous to Ahmadinejad as a champion of the poor. There was a
payoff for the poor in his election platform: a guarantee of a piece of
Iran's oil wealth. But this is little more than a paltry payoff to keep them
off the establishment's back.
But Mousavi's movement is not entirely lilly-white either. The CIA et. al.
are ALL OVER the Iranian reform movement, and have been for years.
Slowing it's momentum and also positioning NWO apparachiks to steer
the movement in the right direction when it's time eventually comes.
The regime is still playing hardball: a rally today Monday by Mousavi's
supporters was warned that live ammunition would be available to police.
But at the same time, the real power: religious Supremo Khamenei has
done an about turn and ordered an investigation into the claims of
vote-rigging and fraud. Khamenei asked the Guardian Council, the clerics
who oversee elections, to examine the claims and report within 10 days.
But that's like asking Southern preachers to investigate Bush's 2004 vote.
Truth is: no Iranian presidential election has ever been verifiable.
Here's what I wrote back in 2005:
| Quote: |  Installing Ahmadinejad was a piece of cake. Iran's seemingly democratic election was deeply compromised from the start.
All presidential candidates must first be approved by Iran's Guardian Council. Thus, before anybody had even bothered to 'vote', the list of presidential candidates had been whittled down from around 1,000 to only seven contestants. Lucky guys........
It's well overdue that we focus on Iran's supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Khamenei --whose political style makes the last Catholic Pope look like a radical. As was confirmed by what Ahmadinejad did. Immediately after he won, Ahmadinejad became the first Iranian president to kiss Khamenei's hand after an election.
Which shows who continues to be the real 'Supreme' power in Iran: Ayatollah Khamenei. Post-kiss photos show him leading Ahmadinejad by the hand like a junior........
http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/08/irans-president-nobody-man-who-burned.html |
Ahmadinejad is clearly Ayatollah Khamenei's boy. And the election issues
haven't changed since he was engineered into the presidency in 2005:
| Quote: | "Candidates are not allowed to be present at polling stations during voting or counting. Many voters are illiterate and officials help them fill in their ballot papers, so the possibilities for rigging are immense. And there are no booths in the polling stations so voting is done in public, not in private -- a major obstacle for transparency......
"You could say all of Iran's 10 presidential elections have been fraudulent or that all were fair -- we just don't know. All have been held in the same way. The whole electoral process from the vetting of candidates to voting and ballot counting is conducted by the state."
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/15/iran.elections.qa/ |
Unofficial results of the election are circulating in Iran. One set of results
shows shows Mousavi winning 57.2% and Ahmadinejad with 28%.
That is the reverse of the official stats, and it looks impossible to square
the circle on all that without serious civil unrest from one or both sides.
My bet is that the Iranian leadership/NWO is aiming to stick with the status
quo and use the next few years to prepare for a reformist victory in the
next presidential contest. That was always the plan.
But the groundswell of reform is strong and this could get sticky:
| Quote: | The second wave of resistance came from the university student movement. They took over the University of Tehran and called for Ahmadinejad's resignation. Only a few hours later I learned of the uprising in Isfahan, another major urban center. The city is now under marshal law.
I expect to hear about demonstrations in another large city, Tabriz, very soon. Meanwhile workers and unionists are planning a nationwide strike. It is possible that the whole country will come to a stop in the next 24 hours. The resistance to the coup will likely spread to the entire country.
The elite clergy are up in arms about these developments. Secret negotiations are under way to make face-saving deals for both sides, but it may be a little too late for a compromise. There are reports of the armed forces firing on student protesters and at least one death. People are back on their rooftops screaming, "God is great," along with anti-regime slogans reminding everyone old enough of the 1979 revolution. Ahmadinejad supporters are calling for the arrest of former presidents Hashemi Rafsanjani and Mohammed Khatami, accusing them of treason. Returning the genie to the bottle looks increasingly difficult.
There are at least two possible outcomes for the current crisis. If the Ahmadinejad's coup is successful, we will witness another post-1968 Prague spring, crushing the reform movement and including a military attempt at "normalizing" society. Mousavi will be forced to appear on television and play the role of an Iranian Dubcek, expressing regrets and calling on people to stop resisting the military regime.
If this coup fails, on the other hand, Tehran may experience the Prague spring of 1989, and the country will be wide open to the possibility of substantial reforms and liberalization, well beyond what was seen in the Khatami era. In either case, the Islamic Republic we have known for the last three decades is gone.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/15/isfahan-tabriz-tehran-iranian-election-opinions-contributors-mousavi-ahmadinejad.html |
That information war advantage is still with the reformers:
Is this the same country where this happened last year?:
| Quote: | Iran Parliament to Debate Death Penalty for Bloggers
by Marshall Kirkpatrick - July 4, 2008 3:52 PM
The Iranian parliament is set to debate a draft bill that would add a number of crimes to the list of those that can result in execution, among them "establishing weblogs and sites promoting corruption, prostitution and apostasy." Apostasy means the abandonment of a religion. The official Iranian news agency reports that the bill is intended to "toughen punishment for harming mental security in society."
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/iranian_deth_penalty_for_bloggers.php |
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bri
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2887
Location: Capacious Creek
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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George H.W. Bush questions Iran election
| Quote: |
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/15/george-hw-bush-questions-iran-election-results/
The 41st president said Monday that the official results of Iran's election claiming a landslide victory for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad were "weird," but he cautioned against inflaming tensions with the Islamic Republic.
"It sounded funny when the opponent claimed victory by 60 some percent then the next thing you know he's on his back, counted out," former president, George H.W. Bush said on the debut broadcast of the Washington Times America's Morning News. "There is something weird about it, something strange about it." (edit: deja vu?)
Mr. Bush was first elected to the vice presidency in 1980, a year after the 1979 Iranian revolution, the last time this many Iranians were taking to the street to protest the regime then of U.S. ally, Shah Pahlavi.
Mr. Bush, however, urged that the United States exercise prudence in reacting to the events unfolding in Iran. "They ought to get to the bottom of it," he said. "And without emotion go forward and see if there is something that can be done from outside without inflaming tensions, we don't want to inflame tensions with Iran." He added that President Obama should refrain from making any military threats.
In the interview, Mr. Bush also declined to get into the middle of the latest spat between CIA director, Leon Panetta and former vice president Richard Cheney. |
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GaryGo
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 713
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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fintan that canadian pm or whatever is the first western politician ive seen to directly assert there has been irregularities in the votin, i bet hilary gave him a lecture after - but that picture of the guy with the briefcase is a gem - you think thats staged maybe - whats the odds hes a coke dealer that hates adj hehe - sorry but my cap key on my mac book has gone - sorry bout the small f fintan ,, ,this was on my clipboard and cant remember were i got it - , - | Quote: | I have never read such unadulterated crap, and I mean NEVER.
The fraud was so transparent that anyone denying it is either ideologically tainted or just plain stupid.
Karroubi was credited with only 260,000-odd votes this time although he won 4 million 4 years ago and is revered in his bastion of Lorestan province and surrounding areas.
Moussavi, a proud and highly respected 'Turk', drew unprecedented crowds in Tabriz and elsewhere that alone should have guaranteed him 5 million votes in this one constituency alone, not to mention Tehran where he drew one million onto the streets according to the FT. Khuzestan hates Ahmadinejad, but he 'won' even there.
Monitors were thrown out of polling stations, and those monitors who protested were arrested. Not one single monitor was permitted during the actual count in the Interior Ministry building in Dr. Fatemi Square. What was the regime afraid of?
The Guardian Council announced the vote results even before the Ministry did!!!
And in another 'miracle' 20 million votes were 'counted' by Ministry officials and the results announced at midnight, just 3 hours after the voting ended. In view of the crowds maintaining a vigil it would have taken 2 hours for the ballots to have physically reached the Ministry and another day to have separated spoiled ballots, sorted the valid ones out and manually entered the information into the computer. These were manually completed ballots, for Christ's sake, not computerized votes.
Exit polls showed Moussavi with 65 % of the vote, which would tally with the 30 % left for Ahmadinejad, the same number of votes as he won in 2005 against a highly unpopular candidate (Rafsanjani). The 20 million Iranians who boycotted 4 years ago in protest at the Islamic excesses of the regime did actually vote this year, even by Ahmadinejad's own admission. So whom do you believe they voted for?
I am sick to death of those of you who knee-jerk defend the Islamic regime purely and simply because it is anti-American. You make me sick.
Posted by: Parviz | Jun 14, 2009 5:13:02 AM | 1 |
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GaryGo
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 713
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: The day of destiny |
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A demonstrator who was shot during a protest demonstration
in the streets of the capital Tehran today
| Quote: | Robert Fisk witnesses the courage of one million protesters who ignored threats, guns and bloodshed to demand freedom in Iran
Tuesday, 16 June 2009
It was Iran's day of destiny and day of courage. A million of its people marched from Engelob Square to Azadi Square – from the Square of Revolution to the Square of Freedom – beneath the eyes of Tehran's brutal riot police. The crowds were singing and shouting and laughing and abusing their "President" as "dust".
Mirhossein Mousavi was among them, riding atop a car amid the exhaust smoke and heat, unsmiling, stunned, unaware that so epic a demonstration could blossom amid the hopelessness of Iran's post-election bloodshed. He may have officially lost last Friday's election, but yesterday was his electoral victory parade through the streets of his capital. It ended, inevitably, in gunfire and blood.
Not since the 1979 Iranian Revolution have massed protesters gathered in such numbers, or with such overwhelming popularity, through the boulevards of this torrid, despairing city. They jostled and pushed and crowded through narrow lanes to reach the main highway and then found riot police in steel helmets and batons lined on each side. The people ignored them all. And the cops, horribly outnumbered by these tens of thousands, smiled sheepishly and – to our astonishment – nodded their heads towards the men and women demanding freedom. Who would have believed the government had banned this march?
The protesters' bravery was all the more staggering because many had already learned of the savage killing of five Iranians on the campus of Tehran University, done to death – according to students – by pistol-firing Basiji militiamen. When I reached the gates of the college yesterday morning, many students were weeping behind the iron fence of the campus, shouting "massacre" and throwing a black cloth across the mesh. That was when the riot police returned and charged into the university grounds once more.
At times, Mousavi's victory march threatened to crush us amid walls of chanting men and women. They fell into the storm drains and stumbled over broken trees and tried to keep pace with his vehicle, vast streamers of green linen strung out in front of their political leader's car. They sang in unison, over and over, the same words: "Tanks, guns, Basiji, you have no effect now." As the government's helicopters roared overhead, these thousands looked upwards and bayed above the clatter of rotor blades: "Where is my vote?" Clichés come easily during such titanic days, but this was truly a historic moment.
Would it change the arrogance of power which Mahmoud Ahmadinejad demonstrated so rashly just a day earlier, when he loftily invited the opposition – there were reported to be huge crowds protesting on the streets of other Iranian cities yesterday – to be his "friends", while talking ominously of the "red light" through which Mousavi had driven. Ahmadinejad claimed a 66 per cent victory at the polls, giving Mousavi scarcely 33 per cent. No wonder the crowds yesterday were also singing – and I mean actually singing in chorus – "They have stolen our vote and now they are using it against us."
A heavy and benevolent dust fell over us all as we trekked the great highway towards the fearful pyramid of concrete which the Shah once built to honour his father and which the 1979 revolutionaries re-named Freedom Square.
Behind us, among the stragglers, stones began to burst on to the road as Basijis besieged the Sharif University (they seem to have something against colleges of further education these days) and one man collapsed on the road, his face covered in blood. But on the great mass of people moved, waving their green flags and shouting in joy at the thousands of Iranians who stood along the rooftops.
On the right, they all saw an old people's home and out on to the balcony came the aged and the crippled who must have remembered the reign of the loathed Shah, perhaps even his creepy father, Reza Khan. A woman who must have been 90 waved a green handkerchief and an even older man emerged on the narrow balcony and waved his crutch in the air. The thousands below them shrieked back their joy at this ancient man.
Walking beside this vast flood of humanity, a strange fearlessness possessed us all. Who would dare attack them now? What government could deny a people of this size and determination? Dangerous questions.
By dusk, the Basiji were being chased by hundreds of protesters in the west of the city but shooting was crackling around the suburbs after dark. Those who were fatally too late in leaving Azadi, were fired on by the Basiji. One dead, thousands in panic, we heard behind us.
After every day of sunlight, there usually comes a perilous darkness and perhaps it was prefigured by the strange grey cloud that approached us all as we drew closer to Azadi Square yesterday afternoon. Many of the thousands of people around me noticed it and, burned by the afternoon sun, seemed to walk faster to embrace its shade. Then it rained, it poured, it soaked us. There is a faint rainy season in mid-summer Tehran but it had arrived early, sunlight arcing through the clouds like the horizon in a Biblical painting.
Moin, a student of chemical engineering at Tehran University – the same campus where blood had been shed just a few hours before – was walking beside me and singing in Persian as the rain pelted down. I asked him to translate.
"It's a poem by Sohrab Sepehri, one of our modern poets," he said. Could this be real, I asked myself? Do they really sing poems in Tehran when they are trying to change history? Here is what he was singing:
"We should go under the rain.
We should wash our eyes,
And we should see the world in a different way."
He grinned at me and at his two student friends. "The next line is about making love to a woman in the rain, but that doesn't seem very suitable here." We all agreed. Our feet hurt. We were still tripping over manhole covers and kerbstones hidden beneath men's feet and women's chadors. For this was not just the trendy, young, sunglassed ladies of north Tehran. The poor were here, too, the street workers and middle-aged ladies in full chador. A very few held babies on their shoulders or children by the arm, talking to them from time to time, trying to explain the significance of this day to a mind that would not remember it in the years to come that they were here on this day of days.
The vast Azadi monument appeared through the grey light like a spaceship – we had been walking for four miles – and Moin and his friends spent an hour squeezing through a body of humanity so dense that my chest was about to be crushed. Around the monument, the Shah had long ago built a grassed rampart. We struggled to its height and there, suddenly, was the breathtaking nature of it all. Readers who have seen the film Atonement will remember the scene where the British hero-soldier climbs a sand-dune and suddenly beholds those thousands on the beaches of Dunkirk. This was no less awesome.
Amid the great basin of grass and concrete that surrounds the monument were a thousand souls, moving and swaying and singing in the new post-rain sunlight. There must have been at least a million, and – here one struggles for a metaphor – it was like a vast animal, a great heaving beast that breathed and roared and moved sluggishly beneath that monstrous arrow of concrete. Moin and his friends lay on the grass, smoking cigarettes. They asked each other if the Supreme Leader would understand what this meant for Iran. "He's got to hold the elections again," one of Moin's friends told him. They looked at me. Don't ask a foreigner, I said. Because I'm not so sure that the fathers of the 1979 revolution will look so kindly upon this self-evident demand for freedom.
True, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader – how antiquated that title sounded yesterday – had agreed to enquire into the election results, perhaps to look over a polling statistic or two. But Ahmadinejad, despite his obtuseness and his unending smile, is a tough guy in a tough clerical environment. His glorious predecessor, Hojatolislam Mohamed Khatami, was somewhere down there amid the crowds, along with Mousavi and Mousavi's wife Zahra Rahnavard, but they could not protect these people.
Government is not about good guys and bad guys. It is about power, state and political power – they are not the same – and unless those wanly smiling riot police move across to the opposition, the weapons of the Islamic Republic remain in the hands of Ahmadinejad's administration and his spiritual protectors. As, no doubt, we shall soon see. |
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