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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Country or Company? Reply with quote

Over in the 'Rats Nest' thread, there were some references to the murky delineation between corporate espionage and national intelligence - or 'Corporate' fakes vs. 'CIA' fakes. IMO, the question itself points to the blurry line between country and corporation, especially as portrayed in the government friendly 'corporate' media.

To me, suggesting either as the true culprit is simply hiding one arm of the octopus behind another, and allows the 'operatives' to swap trench coats for buisness suits and back again to avoid culpability.

The cosy relationship between big business and government is almost a cliche at this point, but it does seem to be a match made in ...er... a good match. When countries expand their national borders to increase wealth, it is considered imperialistic agression and frowned upon by the citizens, however when corporations 'open up new markets', people cheer about econimic progress. The same holds true about defending these resources; Protecting vital econonic interests from terrorist aggression is considered an honorable use of national force, however when foreign resources are privately policed, it is seen as merciless exploitation of third world resources. Wouldn't it be handy if they could work together to make truckloads of cash and look like heroes doing it?

The concept is not new - in fact most of us still use ol' Ike's McCarthy era moniker, the Military / Industrial complex. But what the hell is it, or more mystifying, who the hell is it? If you're expecting an answer, sorry. I've got no idea either - that's why this is a post, not a blog - but this seems like a good place to yap about it.

I'll throw out something to start - something I got from www.theyrule.net, which is an extremely fun resource for those with no social life whatsoever:



What exactly is this suggesting? I dunno, but I could just stare at it for hours for some reason - it hypmotizes me. It suggests Futter's got some clout, and it's interesting to talk about, but ultimately it's just one way of looking at a whole bunch of data that maximizes 'implications.'

I don't know if TheyRule is info, disinfo or what. I'd love to hear some other opinions. I did find the link on a 'Fake' site (Makow... ugh, I'm so embarassed...), so I was 'encouraged' to visit TheyRule by somebody I don't trust. But it's still neat, and provides a place to start. Like:

1. Does examining the 'interlocking directories' of the Boards of Directors of multinational corporations and governmental institutions accomplish anything? Is the influence peddling that these charts imply an actual issue, and if so, is it usable information in attempting to understand covert control?

2. Do these Board of Directors wield any actual power, or are they merely another layer of puppet protection, insulating the true private interests beyond the focus of public SEC filings? The Straw Elite?

3. Where else can we look to for an answer to the question, "Is this a Country or a Company?"
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kathy



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 728
Location: Surfing The Waves

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, I don't see Monsanto or W.R.Grace on the list - any idea why since they are the biggest players in GM?
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point.

That was my major frustration as well - most of the companies I wanted to look up were mysteriously missing from 'the list.' I wondered if this was because they were owned by a larger company, or because for some reason, they were omitted.

Does it have to do with 'public' vs. 'private' companies? Is Monsanto a private company or public?

Perhaps the 'public' corporation is the dodge?

This can't be a 'complete' list, right? Maybe that's the disinfo factor built into this site - the really guilty companies aren't on the list.

Perhaps the only companies listed are for the purposes of generating 'agenda friendly' implications, and deflecting suspicion away from the true culprits?

I'll poke around and see if I can dig up the selection criteria.
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Ozregeneration



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 485
Location: Big Island Down Under

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're missing the biggest corporation of them all, UNITED STATES. The US con-stitution was all about a reorganisation whereby the debt could be paid off (though that is an impossibility, as the debt can NEVER be paid off). The states became States (additional corporations) and vowed to paid off the debt. We became indebted through our parents (unwittingly) filling in an application for the Certificate of Live Birth (or it's equivalent) which is a contract. I pledge alliegence to the 'debt'......

I think you'd find that the families such as Rothchild, Rockefeller, etc would not appear anywhere as they would be hidden behind trusts.
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Robert



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 406

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Jerry,
At risk of being a newbie who is immediately ostracised....
Your SELF is at the centre of that diagram.

Is not this another Illuminati,do they exist or not line?(if that hurt,keep reading!)
Could not this 'control' be in everybody?
Why do you always look in another for it?

From Fintan's,Ultimate Secrets 4....he starts to play with YOU as a form of ME.
Logic:since without me...you are nothing.

So unfortunate as we may like it these lovely little circle characters are in ME.

Are they not just people whose overall response to life is more fearful than yours,Jerry?
They are so fearful,they grab forcefully what they can.
Not entirely unlike a lizard brain,maybe.
Some are so forceful,they stay on top.

But as you conquer your desire to control everything(through painfully realising it's impossible) you become more powerful:more able to live with nothing.You can read what i'm saying and not react strongly.Maybe even grin...

So why did i say SELF.....well myself,yourself,fintanself is the layer of deathcult Fintan mentions in UReality 1,this self is an overactive bodyprotector that has clouded up our beautiful vision with its concepts and opinions,taught from parent,teacher,ruler into the force led people.

Finally,to really put the boot in....
Fintan you are wrong in Ultimate Reality 4,where you state that we don't have to take responsibility.
Making a coffee as you suggest is taking responsibility.
It is to observe and not emotionally react.To act when you are still if something can be done.Otherwise keep enjoying life.
These last three sentences might sound simple,but they are often difficult to live .To grace through,to contain,to enjoy....

It's all very well seeing the secrets,knowing them but living them(as Truth) is a totally different ballgame.Watching the crystalline clarity of Fintan's investigation is a joy.


Robert
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kawazu



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Country or Company? Reply with quote

Jerry Fletcher wrote:
Over in the 'Rats Nest' thread, there were some references to the murky delineation between corporate espionage and national intelligence - or 'Corporate' fakes vs. 'CIA' fakes. IMO, the question itself points to the blurry line between country and corporation, especially as portrayed in the government friendly 'corporate' media.

To me, suggesting either as the true culprit is simply hiding one arm of the octopus behind another, and allows the 'operatives' to swap trench coats for buisness suits and back again to avoid culpability.

You got that right.Framing the debate as Corporate Fakes vs CIA Fakes is rather pointless and unproductive,they are obviously two sides of the same coin.The chart you found is indeed fascinating,I will have to look further into that,not sure if its actually usefull or just more disinfo to muddy the waters,lord knows there is plenty of that to go around.
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
• We became indebted through our parents (unwittingly) filling in an application for the Certificate of Live Birth (or it's equivalent) which is a contract. I pledge alliegence to the 'debt'......


Oz - know of an honest, understandable source for information about this? I've read some things about this franchise concept - unfortunately some of those things also had fictional chapters about reptiles.

Is this related to the 'You aren't legally required to pay income tax' thing?

Quote:
• Hello Jerry,
At risk of being a newbie who is immediately ostracised....
Your SELF is at the centre of that diagram.

Hey Robert. Dude, we're all newbies. 'The Whole World Changed' a few years ago, remember? Smile Plus, there's no ostracize button on my browser ... although there is my dangerous buffy the vampire slayer wit ... but it's meant to unite, not divide.Smile

Quote:
•Are they not just people whose overall response to life is more fearful than yours,Jerry?
They are so fearful,they grab forcefully what they can.
Not entirely unlike a lizard brain,maybe.
Some are so forceful,they stay on top.
But as you conquer your desire to control everything(through painfully realising it's impossible) you become more powerful:more able to live with nothing
.

Quote:
• It's all very well seeing the secrets,knowing them but living them(as Truth) is a totally different ballgame.

Yeah, I hear ya. It's another form of pyradimical control structure run on high octane fear. I also realize free from desire means beyond 'control', or freedom. I still feel compelled to understand the nature of the holographic projections we as the supermind 'choose' to project. By seeking to understand 'the matrix' we learn about what it reflects - ourselves, yes? It is at least the first steps toward transcending it's control - truly living moment to moment with this level of 'forum righteousness' is a daunting thought - but an admirable goal.

Ultimately, I think I'm still in the state off amazement that the world really is nothing like I ever thought it was.

Quote:
•Finally,to really put the boot in....

Ooch! Smile
Quote:
•Watching the crystalline clarity of Fintan's investigation is a joy.

Well said!
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Ozregeneration



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 485
Location: Big Island Down Under

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oz wrote:
We became indebted through our parents (unwittingly) filling in an application for the Certificate of Live Birth (or it's equivalent) which is a contract. I pledge alliegence to the 'debt'......


Jerry Fletcher wrote:
Oz - know of an honest, understandable source for information about this? I've read some things about this franchise concept - unfortunately some of those things also had fictional chapters about reptiles.


Jerry, now depending on how far you wish to take this, you may be sorry you asked. Wink But rest assured, no reptiles were used, involved or harmed in my research.

I've been researching this and other related subjects for about 12 months now via articles and audios, and I think I could keep going for the rest of my life and still not get totally on top of what is going on. But as of this moment, I believe there are a few people who have quite a handle on what has gone down.

Now as far as the Certificate of Live Birth goes, the most knowledgable researcher in this area would probably be Barton Buhtz. Based on a report he wrote, Barton gave a couple of radio interviews (they are no longer accessable) which explained the whole Certificate process. Now from these audios I put (as best I could) together a flow chart in MS Word of this process if you are interested.

The following extract came from this website, which may interest.

The Application For A Birth Certificate

When a woman gave birth to a child in the old days back before 1933, the record of that birth was most likely put into the family bible. That was the only place where it was recorded. Well, back in 1921 there was a federal bureau set up called the Federal Bureau of Children. This agency began a program of initializing or educating the states to register children. They guided the states to begin pressing for, or getting parents to issue or accept, a Certificate of Birth for their offspring. In 1933 this process was effectually put fully into force within local counties in hospitals and birthing houses, etc. Virtually everyone today now has a Birth Certificate.

Well, the issuance of a Birth Certificate means that somewhere there has to be an original signed contract that brought it into existence. When a child was born, the parents were presented with an application for a Certificate of Live Birth. The application for a Certificate of Live Birth was a UCC contract. For reference, a UCC contract stipulates that the property named in a contract shall be transferred over to the control of someone else or to some other entity. So, when your parents got you a birth certificate a transaction took place. Mr. Buhtz discovered it is not the Birth Certificate itself that causes a transfer of interest, it is the application for a Certificate of Live Birth. Now here is the interesting part. Go and try to find the application for a Certificate of Live Birth. You won't find it. You won't find it at the county level because they sent it on to the State capital. You won't find it at the State capital because they sent it on to Washington, D.C. From there, as far as Mr. Buhtz could figure out, it is very possible that the application ended up either on file somewhere in Puerto Rico or at the headquarters of the International Monetary Fund or the IMF in Switzerland.

The application used to obtain your Birth Certificate is nowhere to be easily found because it is a very valuable UCC contract. As near as Mr. Buhtz's investigation shows, here is what happened. When the application for a Certificate of Live Birth reached Washington, D.C., the Department of the Treasury in conjunction with the Social Security Administration, took out a bond and borrowed money with it. They invested that borrowed money in the name of a fictitious entity that they set up with YOUR NAME in all capital letters. Today, this entity is being called the "strawman".

Mr. Buhtz was born in 1939. He said in his day and age sixty-two years ago, the federal government borrowed $630,000 and invested it in his all capital "strawman" entity name BARTON BUHTZ. They invested this money and started doing business in stocks and bonds worldwide with it. As of August 6, 2001, this will have been going on now for sixty-two years with the BARTON BUHTZ entity. The value that has accrued over all these years based upon the money the government invested in Mr. Buhtz's "strawman" is anybody's guess. The same goes for all of us who have Birth Certificates.


Jerry Fletcher wrote:
Is this related to the 'You aren't legally required to pay income tax' thing?


It would depend who "You" is. Persons are required to pay tax. People are not.


Last edited by Ozregeneration on Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 740

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:18 am    Post subject: Constitutional Stuff Reply with quote

Just a quick follow up. There’s a KEY distinction between "people", as stated in the "Declaration of Independence", i.e. "We the people" and a "person", i.e. a citizen.

The trap is found in the 14th amendment of the constitution. Here is where you are given your "person", i.e. citizen status:

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This is a contract forced on you at birth, involuntarily, bound by your acceptance of a "birth certificate". It basically makes you part of the "corporation" of the US and obligates you to be responsible for all the debts and bad policies that go with it, i.e. taxes etc. This contract was not entered into voluntarily, making it a form of "involuntary servitude".

Your only out is located in the 13th amendment, which states:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

The trick is to identify what parts of being a "person" that you have been obligated to and professing that it was your understanding that you are part of "We the people", not a “person” or citizen. Sounds simple but its not.

I wish I had more time to put on this but I got to go to work, more later. Starting to make sense???

- Hawk
:roll:

I'd rather be a word man, better than a bird man.

- Jim Morrison
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Ozregeneration



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 485
Location: Big Island Down Under

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Constitutional Stuff Reply with quote

hawkwind wrote:
Just a quick follow up. There’s a KEY distinction between "people", as stated in the "Declaration of Independence", i.e. "We the people" and a "person", i.e. a citizen.

The trap is found in the 14th amendment of the constitution. Here is where you are given your "person", i.e. citizen status


And from my understanding, another trap is that while the "Declaration of Independence" was for the people in the united states of America, the "Constitution" was related to the persons of the corporate United States.

hawkwind wrote:
This is a contract forced on you at birth, involuntarily, bound by your acceptance of a "birth certificate". It basically makes you part of the "corporation" of the US and obligates you to be responsible for all the debts and bad policies that go with it, i.e. taxes etc. This contract was not entered into voluntarily, making it a form of "involuntary servitude".


The contract is the "Application for the Certificate of Live Birth" not the "birth certificate" itself. (Just re-reading my quote from Barton Buhtz above and it would appear I need to update based on his recent research). Our mothers unwittingly dobbed us in by signing the application. Though not signatories, we are still parties to the contract. Thus, after correctly filing our UCC documents, one can then become the controller the 'strawman' rather than be the owner of it.


Last edited by Ozregeneration on Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Robert



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 406

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry,


Quote:
By seeking to understand 'the matrix' we learn about what it reflects - ourselves, yes?

You can work that way round but it would seem a long route.The supply of unhappiness and dishonesty is endless,whatever billion stories,it could engulf you!
But perhaps the supply of unhappiness and dishonesty in you can be made finite?

I don't deny we need to know what tricks they are up to,from a survival point of view.Like avoiding the potholes,as banal as that,whilst not missing the sight of a kestrel hovering over the road.

Robert
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oz, Hawkwind -

You guys kick Buhtz! Wink

Or is it pronounced 'boots'? Either way, that is some very interesting information - pretty mind blowing, actually.

All I can say, from whichever angle I approach it, Contract Law always seems to be the guardian stationed at the gates of truth.

It's like the million armed monster that guards the 'Castle' in a video game - seems like you always blow 15 or 20 lives just learning how to fight it.

Oz wrote:

But rest assured, no reptiles were used, involved or harmed in my research.


But see, you can't tell cause they shape cha- ... oh, never mind... Wink

Jokes aside, I found this sentence nothing short of chilling:

Quote:

From there, as far as Mr. Buhtz could figure out, it is very possible that the application ended up either on file somewhere in Puerto Rico or at the headquarters of the International Monetary Fund or the IMF in Switzerland.


Well, I'll stop throwing the term 'Strawman' around like an ignoramus. Is this 'contract' we're involved in kind of like a DBA, or 'ficticious business name'? Like USA Inc., 'doing business as' JERRY FLETCHER? (As opposed to jerry fletcher, who does very little business.)

Or is this a different concept entirely?

Oz wrote:


put (as best I could) together a flow chart in MS Word of this process if you are interested.


Does the Pope sh*t in the woods? Yeah, I'm interested! I'm a chart junkie! Thanks dude. I'm interested in any info you got on this subject. You can always email me - wassupfletch@gmail.com. Or PM? Can we send files that way? I've made / found a few neat charts myself.

It does seem in order to decide where my country 'stands' with me, it's important to realize where I stand within my country. It completely blows my mind to think that my productivity potential was estimated at the time of my birth, and a loan was taken out against my lifelong labor. I'm not infuriated as much as completely flabbergasted. This shines additional light on the nefarious advances made during the Wilson and Roosevelt administrations - the Fed, the Glass bill, the Tax act, and the codification of the UCC code. What I always found interesting, is that all the early revisions of the UCC involved the contracts of marriage, and who ultimately is 'responsible' for the child of a married couple. I always thought it was to shield the robber barons from alimony and paternity suits, but now I'm beginning to think a little differently.

Hawk wrote:

The trick is to identify what parts of being a "person" that you have been obligated to and professing that it was your understanding that you are part of "We the people", not a person or citizen. Sounds simple but its not.


Simple? It sounds diabolically complicated. I really want to understand this.

Hawk wrote:

I wish I had more time to put on this but I got to go to work, more later.


Get your priorities STRAIGHT, man! Wink Looking forward to more, thx...

Robert wrote:
whilst not missing the sight of a kestrel hovering over the road.


Ok, I had to look up kestrel - I was picturing a blimp!

Robert wrote:

But perhaps the supply of unhappiness and dishonesty in you can be made finite?


Boy, wouldn't that be nice. Well, it's something to shoot for, but I do find that the less dishonesty I allow into my life, the less unhappiness seems to follow it - although the disillusionment factor skyrockets.

But I hear what you're saying about not letting the 'fights' and 'injustices' eat you from the inside out. I feel like I'm finally leaving 'that period' of my life - my blathering on this board is more of an optimistic attempt to find other like minded individuals rather than a vetting of anger and frustration.

Let's just say, the search for truth has become the 'wind beneath my kestrel's wings'. Wink


Last edited by Jerry Fletcher on Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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