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SuperstarNeilC
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 206
Location: Manchester, England
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atm
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 2696
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 Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Griffin is way offbase. The creation of the Federal Reserve was not (repeat NOT) the result of the Jekyll Island meeting. Ever since the bank run of 1907 it had been a topic of open public debate that the banking system needed to be reformed.
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That is open to rebate, mate.
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Robert
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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wow................
GOLD breaks out against the £
New alltime highs. |
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Fintan
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3909
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah Gold is breaking out, but beware of paper gold instruments.
Below is Jurg Kiener the CEO of Swiss Asia Capital warning of a
DEFAULT in the gold paper exchanges. Physical gold is way over
the paper price - if you can get it.
http://breakfornews.com/audio/JurgKiener-SwissAsiaCapital081007.mp3
Meanwhile, another bloodbath today:
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No doubt in part caused by investors getting this in the mail:
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However, some of the selling may be
due to much bigger fish cashing out:
| Quote: | Indonesia market shut down,
may stay closed through Friday
By Zakki Hakim, Associated Press Writer
JAKARTA, Indonesia — Trading on the Jakarta Stock Exchange was
canceled Thursday and may remain suspended through the week as
officials try to quell a stampede of selling that has sent the country's
main stock index skidding more than 20% this week.
Fears about the global financial crisis sent the benchmark JSX index
tumbling more than 10% Wednesday before authorities ordered a halt
in trade in the late morning.
Thursday's session was canceled before trading opened and the
suspension could be extended through Friday, Minister of State
Enterprises Sofyan Jalil said after a late night Cabinet meeting.....
"What is happening is panic selling to an extent that it is irrational," said
Irvin Patmadiwiria, the head of investments at PT Lautan Dana
Investment Management.
He said roughly 70% of stocks traded in Jakarta are owned by foreign
investors, who are cashing out holdings to create liquidity.
Among the most active sellers were Merrill Lynch, United Overseas Bank,
McGuire and JP Morgan, he said. They were dumping blue chip
telecommunication, banking, and manufacturing shares.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2008-10-09-indonesia-market-shut-down_N.htm?csp=34 |
Undoubtedly, a huge factor is the unwinding of the yen carry trade
as the yen appreciates against the dollar while yen-based speculators
cash out their US investments. The tracking is perfect:
But this sell off is a perfect mood-setting preface to an
unprecedented multi-level series of international financial elite
meetings over the next few days:
| Quote: | The Group of 20 (G20) that brings together emerging economies and
industrial nations will hold an emergency meeting Saturday to consider
joint efforts to tackle a debilitating financial crisis.
US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson will host the gathering in
Washington on the sidelines of the annual meetings of the International
Monetary Fund and World Bank, and will include finance ministers and
central bank heads from the world's largest economies.
"We see evidence every day that world economies and financial markets
are more connected and interdependent than at any time in history,"
Paulson told reporters.
Members of the Group of Seven industrial nations plan to meet on Friday.
Paulson said the wider gathering on Saturday would give ministers the
chance to "discuss how we might coordinate to lessen the effects of global
market turmoil and the economic slowdown on all of our countries."
http://profit.ndtv.com/2008/10/09121328/G20-nations-to-meet-on-Saturda.html |
I was thinking that a good name for the new
world currency unit would be the Globo!
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Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open. |
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RedMahna
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 884
Location: On or near a computer
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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You know, the fuckers shoulda took the 700B and bought MER Jan 09 $10 Puts a week ago. Or any other financial company puts, or even Mastercard or Visa puts, or PBR and PTR puts... shit, just about any fucking put.
Who the hell gave them financial advice, anyway? Dumbshits.
| Quote: | "We see evidence every day that world economies and financial markets
are more connected and interdependent than at any time in history,"
Paulson told reporters. |
WHERE THE F HAS HE BEEN??? "We see... markets are more connected...?" Was that a joke?
| Quote: | I was thinking that a good name for the new
world currency unit would be the Globo! |
I was thinking if they are reading this post, they just might do it to blow our minds, whaddya think?
red
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James D
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Fintan said:
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I was thinking that a good name for the new
world currency unit would be the Globo!
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I don't know Dude, "globo" in Spanish means Balloon!!
It could get it off to a dubious start with doom impending conotations!!
On the other hand, it might give it the kind of realism that a global currency needs! |
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evelyn
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I thought implosion was the goal.
And when the dust settles and the "leaders" (royalty and their wealthy exspurts & henchpins) sashay forth - we little pissants will all live more or less at one level (poverty).
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There is a side of every competitor that wants to leave his opponent lifeless and demoralized on the side of the road. And then there is that other, darker side. |
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PatrickSMcNally
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 851
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| atm wrote: | | That is open to rebate, mate. |
No, it's a historical fact that the issue of reforming the banking system to try to counter what had been a long-time trend on bankruns was publicly discussed for several years. The trip to Jekyll Island was an attempt by banking leaders to respond by presenting their proposition before anyone else came up something. Their proposition was rejected however. |
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RedMahna
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 884
Location: On or near a computer
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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PatrickMcN wrote:
| Quote: | | Our financial crisis today has really nothing to do with the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, except insofar as the latter is part of the general history of capitalism. The crisis today has occurred simply because of what Karl Marx used to call "overproduction." We produce so many goods and services that it's hard for anyone to find room for a profitable new investment in the classical sense. Hence a surplus of phony investment schemes begins to grow in its place, and now we bear the burden of all of those scam investments. But that is not controlled by the Federal Reserve, and it isn't something which can be said to have come about because of the latter's creation. Actually, the greatest period of productive growth in US capitalism happened in the 20th century after the Federal Reserve was created. That period of upward growth that began after WWII ended not because of anyone's conspiracy but because the economic room for growth exhausted itself. |
Hey PMcN, good to see you 'round... and glad you make that point. I think in all of our trouble to pin the tail on the most blame-worthy donkey in such a complicated mess, we see the mechanics of the system as an evil micro-managed plan that has spot-on timing which results to their favor. I don't doubt there's a lot of dot-connecting, but what I always have a problem with is our amount of consumerism. It's grotesque in comparison to practical use. So undoubtedly, we need out-the-ass marketing and an administration (or several) that pushes - like dope - spending.
I liked watching Zeitgeist, but it's too simplistic in blame. It doesn't account for the public's equally greedy ambitions. I am to blame as is the next guy. If the lady down the street kept her money between her mattress and paid cash for rent, utilities, her car, clothes and food, I can maybe excuse her. But the fact is, even those of us who voted for politicians that were pro-deregulation, pro-privatization, and anti-union, were reckless for the mere reality that while they felt capable of controlling their spending, they ought to have known their next-door neighbors would not be quite so conservative.
In other words, if I can see a corruption factor in a piece of legislation, I don't think it's a good thing for all of us to have for the mere perception of freedom... like as in free market.
There's no real industry so consumerism is the Gross National Product to abuse anymore in the United States, meaning cheap goods & services, and sheep-leading bubbles on which the cunning can step on multiple times like a bad spoon of street cocaine. Hail Madison Avenue and Wall Street.
Now that we sheep are all cacpable of owning a copy of Michael Jackson's Thriller, they knew we'd buy new cars every year, one for each new licensee, and a TV for each room, a computer for each member including the kiddies, a few XBoxes, a few iPods, cellphones every time a new one comes along... well, we have so much stuff, a house is just what we need to store all that shit.
Even elections are nothing but another sales vehicle. If they keep it entertaining enough...
red
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RedMahna
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 884
Location: On or near a computer
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Hi evelyn...
| Quote: | | And when the dust settles and the "leaders" (royalty and their wealthy exspurts & henchpins) sashay forth - we little pissants will all live more or less at one level (poverty). |
Sadly, middle America's 401K is the last to bail towards the end of this down cycle. The last to jump in with high prices, the last to bail during low prices. (On average.) How many under 59's lost their "retirement" money this past month? They were afraid to take the 20% tax hit. Perhaps Congress should have exempted the IRA & 401K penalty for the time-being. (Does anyone know if that ever came up in the "bailout" plan?)
Hmmm. Many a new poor will come to know what the old poor know, and they will begin to justify the very shit that used to piss them off before.
red
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The Architect™
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Everybody,this is my first post here although i listen to the shows and read the other posts on a regular basis.One thing is kinda bugging me and its fairly trivial BUT what is the music at the start of the most recent audio shows [the one with somebody counting down,,lift off ect]Sorry if this is of topic  |
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bri
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2246
Location: Capacious Creek
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Also mentioned by ATM here:
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=50161&highlight=#50161
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49A43L20081011
Finance chiefs endorse G7 action plan: IMF panel
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Finance leaders from the International Monetary Fund's 185 member countries on Saturday endorsed a plan announced by major economies to chart a course out of the credit crisis.
The International Monetary and Financial Committee (IMFC), chaired by Egyptian Finance Minister Youssef Boutros-Ghali, called for "exceptional vigilance, coordination, and readiness to take bold action" to address the crisis.
Boutros-Ghali said the fact that all 185 IMF member countries, including emerging and developing economies, supported the Group of Seven plan.
"We are committed to the plan of action," Boutros-Ghali said. "This is an essential element for restoring confidence."
The G7 on Friday vowed to take all necessary steps to unfreeze credit markets and ensure banks can raise money, but offered no collective course of action to avert a deep global recession.
IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn said the committee agreed the IMF should take the lead in looking more in depth at what went wrong and coordinate with other institutions.
He said the fund was the right forum for the job, given its universal membership, and that the IMF stood ready with resources to help any country facing financial difficulties due to the crisis.
The IMF cautioned that emerging economies may experience spillover effects from the financial crisis and it was important that they preserve economic stability.
"For these reasons, it is critically important that collaborative action be coordinated between advanced and emerging economies," the panel said.
In advanced economies, the committee said, policies need to provide "essential stimulus in the face of the risk of a pronounced economic downturn, as confidence in the financial system is restored."
(Reporting by Lesley Wroughton, Editing by Chizu Nomiyama)
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atm
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 2696
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Brown: we need a new world order in finance
October 15 2008
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2460502.0.Brown_we_need_a_new_world_order_in_finance.php
Gordon Brown will today step up his call for a fundamental overhaul of the international financial system as yet another world leader copied his bailout plan with George W Bush announcing that the US government would take a $250bn share in America's leading banks.
The Prime Minister will press his case for radical reform when he travels to Brussels this morning for an EU summit, set to be dominated by the banking crisis, but which comes amid a backdrop of domestic woe with inflation at a 16-year high of 5.2%, a slump in house sales and the lowest levels of home loans since modern records began. Having confirmed that he intended to break with tradition and campaign in the Glenrothes by- election, Mr Brown last night turned the financial emergency to his political advantage by insisting an independent Scotland could not have bailed out the stricken banks.
He claimed it was the financial strength of the UK which made possible the £37bn rescue of the Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS.
"It's the Union that makes this possible; that we are prepared to share the risks as well as the opportunities," declared the Prime Minister.
"And when things are difficult we are in a position to support each other - stronger together, weaker apart."
Asked if the bailout undermined the argument for an independent Scotland, Mr Brown stressed this was "not the time for party political points", but then claimed the £37bn package "would not have been possible with a Scottish administration".
Yesterday, Mr Brown made clear that his part-nationalisation of British banks was only "stage one" of a wider programme of international reform.
In Brussels, he will press his case that the world needs a new "global financial architecture", involving greater transparency, integrity and responsibility in banking affairs.
The Prime Minister is expected to receive a warm welcome in the Belgian capital as some 15 EU governments have already copied elements of his bank bailout plan. At a briefing in London for the international media, some of whom have labelled Mr Brown a "magician" and a "superhero", he brushed off a suggestion by one foreign reporter that he was now "Flash Gordon", given that governments around the world had rushed to adopt their own versions of the UK rescue plan.
"Just Gordon, just Gordon, I can assure you," he replied to laughter.
The Prime Minister made clear he wanted to address what he described as "stage two" - building a successor to the 1944 Bretton Woods agreements, which laid the foundations for the post-war international financial system.
"The stakes are higher than ever before and the coming days will be crucial for the international community," he said. "We have not yet built the means by which we solve the problems at a global level and that's what we now must do."
In yet another extraordinary development for the world's financial system, Mr Bush became the latest leader to announce his administration would take a stake in national banks, amounting to $250bn (£144bn). The US President sought to reassure Americans that his government's role in the banking system would be "limited and temporary".
He said: "These measures are not intended to take over the free market but to preserve it."
The US Treasury will buy non-voting preference shares - those with a fixed return - in nine banks, including Bank of America, Citigroup, and Goldman Sachs with stakes in each limited to $25bn. Bank executives will have to accept limits on their pay and stricter standards of corporate governance.
Hank Paulson, the US Treasury Secretary, said: "Government owning a stake in any private US company is objectionable to most Americans, me included. Yet the alternative of leaving businesses and consumers without access to financing is totally unacceptable."
The London stock market continued to respond positively to developments, ending on 4394, up 137 points or 3.2%. This was despite the fact that inflation rose by 0.5% to 5.2% in September due largely to increases in energy bills.
However, analysts believe that it has peaked and, with lower oil prices and reduced demand in a slowing economy, expectations are high for more interest rate cuts. Elsewhere, while European shares rose 3% and Japan's Nikkei shot up more than 14%, its biggest one-day gain in history, the Dow Jones responded much more cautiously to events. Having risen on early trading, the New York index closed down around 73 points at 9313.
At Westminster, the Commons Treasury Committee announced it was launching an inquiry into the banking crisis.
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On the manifest of the ships of fools
http://business.theage.com.au/business/on-the-manifest-of-the-ships-of-fools-20081014-50oc.html
David Hirst
October 15, 2008
A NEW, new world order is emerging and it is now that we had better get a lot of things right. We must learn that the days of a coherent "floor" are forever gone. Now we might be best calling it a deck on a ship to be forever tossed on stormy seas.
For not only are Australians forced to contribute much of their pay and pay rises to this vessel, so are many citizens of the world. The world's banks and even the ships of state are committed to keeping it afloat, though it is untried and possibly unseaworthy.
This world has been transformed following a great panic, but we "the people" have not been consulted on what we want. The issue foremost in the minds of American voters is not an issue in the election to be held in only a few weeks. The new order is a fait accompli, but its form is unknown.
In coming months we will see the creation of a global structure that will shape our collective destiny or we will spin out of chaos into a nether world where everyone must be their own phoenix.
Co-operation and co-ordination on a scale never dreamt of must be hastily and roughly hewn and assembled from some untrustworthy beams and planks. But there is no way out.
Bloomberg reports: "US officials are hurrying to address frozen credit markets that led France, Germany, Spain, the Netherlands and Austria to agree to commit $US1.8 trillion to guarantee interbank loans and take equity stakes in banks. Buying shares of financial institutions has become the latest focus of Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's rescue plan."
An odd paragraph if read a week or two ago. How on earth, we'd have thought, would a US public servant be connected with such a vast sum of European money? Soon, as the latest version of the new world order takes shape, we will find a world converging with power over our purses passing to unelected international figures and officials upon whom our security rests. Those currently at the helm have driven us perilously close to the needle-point rocks of recession and worse.
For all the flag-waving after the US indices went up 10%, we face among many "unknowables" such minor matters as: lack of detail in the rescue package; earnings news that will get worse as recession deepens; major stresses such as the risk of a CDS (collateralised debt securities) market blow-out and associated collapse of hedge funds and housing prices around the world falling.
This partially co-ordinated international rescue operation is bound to become a feature of the world's financial and even corporate system, supplanting often the role of governments which, while they will be able to tax, will have less power to distribute revenue.
Who will run the ships of state, the United States? With the coming departure from the Treasury of our reigning tsar, Hank Paulson, Neel Kashkari has, it seems, been anointed as the man to take the helm.
Kashkari, who like Paulson is a veteran of Goldman Sachs and who has been called upon to rule on who gets what from the $US700 billion troubled assets relief scheme (TARP) bail-out, has announced the appointment of five individuals to administer same.
They include the inevitable IMF official, three obscure public servants and Reuben Jeffery, who seems to head the unit. Jeffery, like Paulson and Kashkari, is a former long-time employee of Goldman Sachs.
"We are working around the clock to make it happen," Kashkari told the Institute of International Bankers. He said the Treasury planned to use its broad powers under the new law. He means that and the new laws are draconian, borderline totalitarian.
Thus the plans for the supervision of the US side of things are being made in a political vacuum but under the watchful eye of former Goldman Sachs officials. Very reassuring.
David Hirst is a journalist, documentary maker, financial consultant and investor. His column, Planet Wall Street, is syndicated by News Bites, a Melbourne-based sharemarket and business news. |
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KATSTAN
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Most banks in the 19th century back then had an expected lifetime of about 5 years before crashing. The Fed was created in an effort to stabilize this, and on a relative scale it did manage to succeed for awhile. But an outdated system can't be sustained. |
I don´t really think that the "Fed" was created for this purpose.
It all seems to be a big game of Monopoly. |
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PatrickSMcNally
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 851
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| KATSTAN wrote: | | I don´t really think that the "Fed" was created for this purpose. It all seems to be a big game of Monopoly. |
Tendencies towards monopoly are inherent in the nature of capitalism. That is not related to the specific issue of when the Fed was created. That has been inherent from the beginning. The public demands for a reform of the banking system after the crisis of 1907 were what gave birth to the Fed as a regulatory agency. Since the Reagan era, we've had a massive push towards deregulation in every form and this current crisis reflects that fact. It doesn't have much to do with 1913. |
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