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Zeitgeist 2
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evelyn



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(If anyone boycotts money, I want theirs.)

Speaking for myself - I've watched these feel-good films for decades, offering warm-fuzzy hope, tongue-in-cheek solutions, and "justice" for all mankind: If we can just get rid of rich folks everyone will agree to play well together.

Utopia is impossible b/c generally utopian pushers cannot change or "save" their own family, or community, or town - much less 6+ billion others, many of whom with ideologies very different than the Utopianistas, who are actually the counterpart of those gun clinging god thumping folk - both groups claiming to have the key to solving the world's problems - the rightwingernuts have their glossy feel-good/get mad/be afraid/here's the problem and here's the cure videos too.

It's entertainment - not educational, useless distraction - not enlightenment, although such media pretends to educate and enlighten. And ka-ching ka-ching - many Utopianites make a damn good income off distributing the cross-eyed notion of the world holding hands around a campfire singing.

Quote:
...if people weren't so desperate[ly] under the thumb of the economy...


If people weren't so dumbed down they could drag their lazy fat butts from under the thumb and give the "economy" the finger. Economies rise, fall, and collapse and folks survive.

I agree with MATW that extreme wealth is parasitic - but then again, so is most poverty. It's the honest, decent, busy folks who do the bleeding to fund both. This thing called "aid" has killed more men, women, and children than bombs.

Quote:
... slave trade is inherently violent, waging international war, dispensing harmful prescription drugs on a global scale - all of these activities are carried out by the wealthy and the powerful because these are the people with the resources to do so ...


True - but most of those utilizing the slave products, buzzing on prescription drugs, and getting a paycheck from the trigger factory - are we the sheeple. I would guesstimate 90% of folks willingly hand the wealthy their resources.

I dunno ... but my daddy used to say - if you don't wanna be a doormat - don't lie down.

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ManAtTheWindow



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 260
Location: Inverness, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sid and evelyn -
I think we're all singing in more or less the same key on the issue of extremes of wealth and poverty. Poverty can't be cured by throwing money at the poor because the present system immediately sucks it back up to the top of the pyramid. It is therefore essential that there is more awareness amongst the majority that they have to realise their true situation and then help themselves. The last bit is the most important but it's often the least emphasised because it's easier to blame Bush/Blair/Brown/Rockefeller/Paulson/A.N.Other for every problem. These are bad people all right but they're not an excuse for us not being part of a local co-operative, for instance. Nor do they yet have the power to prevent us from using what's left of our justice systems to fight winnable battles.

SidVicious wrote:

I'd still like to hear why the crowd here isn't 'buying it' with a bit more specificity-


My distaste for the final part of the film is based on the unproved (and deeply flawed) assertion that science has the answer to all of our problems. The very best that science can provide us with is knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom.
Scientific knowledge, furthermore, is invariably subject to revision. Basic scientific principles have frequently been turned on their head and the best that can ever be achieved is a working model that answers a limited set of questions. A model is not reality.
The idea that a world religion can be invented and then imposed on the entire world is completely ludicrous. There is simply no argument for a man-made religion. Either a religion is a belief system derived from a revelation from a Supreme (or at least superior) Being or it is nothing at all. Anything between these two extremes is implausible. It's a question of moral authority. A consensus-based "religion" is not a mystical, spiritual system that can guide its adherents to a higher Truth; it is merely a pragmatic code whose practical application depends totally upon near-universal agreement upon its principles. Failing this, it can only be imposed by force; "re-education" comes under that banner.

This is not an argument for or against a particular religion or religion in general. It is merely an observation that a so-called religion that takes its authority from anything less than a belief in a God is inherently incompatible with a religion that places God at the centre of everything. For many, many people, the power of this latter belief is always likely to be stronger than any number of peer-reviewed papers, regardless of the qualifications of the scientists. The fellow in Zeitgeist is being disingenuous when he uses the word religion. He's not talking about a religion at all, he's talking about putting something else in place of religion. Just because it says "New Improved Religion" on the tin isn't a guarantee that the contents are what you expect.

My intuitive feeling is that the search for our own individual answers is an intrinsic part of our happiness and humanity. Having all the questions answered in advance by some self-selecting group of physicists and pharmacologists is never going to cut it for me. That's like buying a book of crossword puzzles that have all the words already filled in. It misses the point of the exercise.

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Turner



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evelyn wrote:
(If anyone boycotts money, I want theirs.)

Speaking for myself - I've watched these feel-good films for decades, offering warm-fuzzy hope, tongue-in-cheek solutions, and "justice" for all mankind: If we can just get rid of rich folks everyone will agree to play well together.

Utopia is impossible b/c generally utopian pushers cannot change or "save" their own family, or community, or town - much less 6+ billion others, many of whom with ideologies very different than the Utopianistas, who are actually the counterpart of those gun clinging god thumping folk - both groups claiming to have the key to solving the world's problems - the rightwingernuts have their glossy feel-good/get mad/be afraid/here's the problem and here's the cure videos too.

It's entertainment - not educational, useless distraction - not enlightenment, although such media pretends to educate and enlighten. And ka-ching ka-ching - many Utopianites make a damn good income off distributing the cross-eyed notion of the world holding hands around a campfire singing.

Quote:
...if people weren't so desperate[ly] under the thumb of the economy...


If people weren't so dumbed down they could drag their lazy fat butts from under the thumb and give the "economy" the finger. Economies rise, fall, and collapse and folks survive.

I agree with MATW that extreme wealth is parasitic - but then again, so is most poverty. It's the honest, decent, busy folks who do the bleeding to fund both. This thing called "aid" has killed more men, women, and children than bombs.

Quote:
... slave trade is inherently violent, waging international war, dispensing harmful prescription drugs on a global scale - all of these activities are carried out by the wealthy and the powerful because these are the people with the resources to do so ...


True - but most of those utilizing the slave products, buzzing on prescription drugs, and getting a paycheck from the trigger factory - are we the sheeple. I would guesstimate 90% of folks willingly hand the wealthy their resources.

I dunno ... but my daddy used to say - if you don't wanna be a doormat - don't lie down.


Fair enough you don't like the film but what are you doing in the "real world" to help the sleep walkers of the world to "wake up" apart from slagging off other peoples (IMO)reasonable attempts at doing it?

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evelyn



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turner-

I've yet to see a "sleep walker" actually "wake-up" after watching Z or Fahrenheit 911, or Sicko, JFK, or the multitude of other "truth" epiphany DVDs preaching to the choir. But, such film is as honest and revolutionary as Reefer Madness or The Silent Scream. Gets 'em going - to do nothing.

Watch the U-boob tube - it'll bring all the hope and (loose) change ya need.

I do my part in my little corner of the world - but waking up mankind with a just released, re-released, or new and improved fluff video is not one of my methods. Although, maybe a tell-all book from a former expert high-level insider, who has "woke up," will move folks to change thing$ ... nah.

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Azoth



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: c Reply with quote

well i'm one of the few saps still on dial up so i can't view any of this stuff. or is there a way to download? besides orbit as that doesn't work on this end.

so where might one find a summary/overview of the (artificial/imposed) money system? this is old hat of course but would like to refresh my memory. and how all this ties in with the straw man/capitol lettered names etc....

have been listening to Alan Watt for about 2 years now and am fairly up on the generalities.
now here, i tend to feel that Alan is a bit myopic.

ya, these movies simply keep the wheels spinning...

as for those "asleep" in general. it's not about "nonthinking" sheeple etc. there are too many smart folks out there. i think it's more like compartmentalization....based on not (ie never) having all the facts.

etc
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Turner



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

evelyn wrote:
turner-

I've yet to see a "sleep walker" actually "wake-up" after watching Z or Fahrenheit 911, or Sicko, JFK, or the multitude of other "truth" epiphany DVDs preaching to the choir. But, such film is as honest and revolutionary as Reefer Madness or The Silent Scream. Gets 'em going - to do nothing.

Watch the U-boob tube - it'll bring all the hope and (loose) change ya need.

I do my part in my little corner of the world - but waking up mankind with a just released, re-released, or new and improved fluff video is not one of my methods. Although, maybe a tell-all book from a former expert high-level insider, who has "woke up," will move folks to change thing$ ... nah.


Thanks for the reply-unconditional love to you and all on here.

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Alfresco



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 183
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: c Reply with quote

Azoth wrote:


as for those "asleep" in general. it's not about "nonthinking" sheeple etc. there are too many smart folks out there. i think it's more like compartmentalization....based on not (ie never) having all the facts.

etc


I agree. Many people seem to have some kind of understanding of whats
going on. Unfortunately because of all the disinfo and crazy conspiracy
theories, it just becomes too confusing and difficult to know what to
concentrate on and near impossible to have all the facts. Its easyer to
just carry on with life as they know it.

I have given copies of Z to a few people. I find they seem to believe there
is truth to the film and it does effect them for a short time but they soon
return to normality and start regurgitating main streem news as truth in
conversation.


sidvicious wrote:


I'd still like to hear why the crowd here isn't 'buying it' with a bit more specificity-


I do quite like this film but can't help thinking its an establishment op.
What it describes as utopia could easely be hell on earth with just a
few changes to the structure.

Overall though, i do find these films and others like them useful. Loose change
was the film that woke me up after a friend recommended it to me and
i do think Z is the best i have seen to recomend to others. I'm not so quick
to recommend the sequel though.

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EddieT



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this guy brings up some good points about Zeitgeist, 2012 and the "spiritual awakening", etc. He is coming from a Christian perspective which I know will turn some people off, but it certainly seems as if enough people here are skeptical about Zeitgeist, so I thought I would post the interview:





I've only listened to about 3 parts so far, so if it is too long I would recommend this little series. He gets into some serious speculation along the way here, but I think the foundation is good and he acknowledges that he is speculating:



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bri



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 3234
Location: Capacious Creek

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh...sorry Eddie I tried to
make it all the way through.
As you can see in my above posts
I'm not a Z fan but it was too God-fearing.
Full of devilish, irrelevant details attempting
to prove the existence of Jesus.

Although the 2nd series had some interesting,
mostly obvious points, I don't need a
Jesus fanatic to tell me that Project Camelot
types are deceivers.

There's a big fear element from Chris White's angle as well.
As if enlightenment were a bad thing.

I don't believe he's a Fake or anything,
just a guy having a bad reaction
to some major fakes, which Z
has some serious ties with.

I'm browsing through Chris White's
full 2012 Deception movie. So far it's
not bad but just your basic ABC of what's
wrong with the 2012 Dreamspell hocus pocus.

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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 740

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bri wrote:

There's a big fear element from Chris White's angle as well.
As if enlightenment were a bad thing.

I don't believe he's a Fake or anything,
just a guy having a bad reaction
to some major fakes, which Z
has some serious ties with.

I'm browsing through Chris White's
full 2012 Deception movie. So far it's
not bad but just your basic ABC of what's
wrong with the 2012 Dreamspell hocus pocus.


Yeah, and what's up with the Mayan calendar having a concrete core?? Chris really gets around ... Laughing Cool

- Hawk

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