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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8274

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:43 pm    Post subject: Forum Disruption Reply with quote

I'm going to kick off a thread here on Forum disruption issues,
which originally came up in the course of the China & Tibet topic.


I posted about John Muir in that thread, as follows:
=========================================

I'd like to spotlight something else John said in the last day or so, and
compare it to what rampant CIA Fake Chris Bollyn said when I released
the CIA Fakes list in August, 2005. Is it just me who see uncanny levels
of similarity? :

Quote:
John Muir: Its funny how Fintan only put the SMALL fries that he THINKS
are CIA on his fakes list. But he forgot about the New York Times and the
whole of the mainstream media that we know from actual documentation are CIA riddled.
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42228#42228



Christopher Bollyn:
Why have you not included USA Today? This mainstream paper is known
to be CIA asset, no question about it. Are none of the controlled mainstream
media outlets "CIA fakes" in your opinon? Are only small independent
researchers who actually probe into the facts of 911 included on your list?

He has also included in his "CIA Internet Fakes" list the websites of some
people who I have been in close contact with, such as Mr. Jimmy Walter,
Mr. Dave vonKleist, and Mr. Phil Jayhan, who I have all found to be
honest, truth seeking individuals.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message137086/pg1

Ok, the point they both make is facile. If everybody KNOWS that the
mainstream media is rotten with CIA plants and influence, then WTF would
be the point of me pointing out something already obvious to everybody??

But I find the similarity of the wording of their attacks to be curious.

And here's something even more curious.

For the last week John Muir has been accusing me of supporting the CIA
--on the basis of his painfully simplistic and now shown wrong analysis.

In that context, here's something he said on the forum about 3 weeks ago,
when he was accusing ATM of being an FBI agent Laughing
It's very interesting:

Quote:
John Muir: Another option is "snitch jacketing" - making the target look like a police informant or a CIA agent.
This serves the dual purposes of isolating and alienating important leaders,
and increasing the general level of fear and factionalism in the group
.
Look, your tactics are an example of the classic cointelpro technique of snitch jacketing.....
http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=41047#41047


Oh! Are you deploying that very tactic right now?
A "classic cointelpro technique" to undermine the forum??

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42238#42238
==============================================



John Muir replied to these issues as follows:
=========================================
Stay Calm Fintan Laughing

First of all I am not sorry to have attacked your CIA fakes list. By any standard of legal proof you would leave all of us wanting. The USA has two standards of legal proof, in penal cases its "beyond a reasonable doubt" and in civil cases its "the preponderance of the evidence" you have not provided the evidence to meet either of these standards.

Yes, I did accuse ATM of snitch jacketing, I should have accused you though. (Sorry, I won't drink your Kool-aid dude.) There is no way that ALL of those sites are CIA. It is very possible that you are paranoid though. Where is the proof? I mean real proof. I mean evidence that would stand up in court. You don't have and most likely will never have that kind of proof. I am sorry I won't just take your word for it either......

Quote:
For the last week John Muir has been accusing me of supporting the CIA
--on the basis of his painfully simplistic and now shown wrong analysis.


Yeah, sure you "showed" me. Laughing I suggest that you invest in and buy a logic text book dude. This rant that you have posted does not even come near to meeting those standards. The standards needed to show that someone’s argument is wrong. What is really "painful" for you is that you cannot believe that the CIA has duped you dude!!! BTW disorganized thinking is a symptom of psychosis. You might want to see a shrink dude.....

Quote:
You call ATM an FBI agent; me a CIA supporter....
Lie through your teeth about being a Marxist.
So it's fair to say you're a shit-stirring liar.
Not an insult. Just as a statement of fact.

And, by the way,
I'm not even finished with this analysis.
There's much more to come.
We are not so dumb as you think.

Folks there has been as you have seen a very determined effort
for a few months to try take BFN Forum down. You all know why.
Sorry if it's shitted up the forum a bit. Goes with the territory.


Laughing I love reading this "analysis". Well you are pretty dumb Fintan because you still support the CIA's "Free Tibet" movement in the face evidence thats shows that their support. When it comes down to it. Fintan you support the CIA's Tibetan Movement.

==============================================

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Last edited by Fintan on Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:45 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In his reply John Muir steered clear of important issues.

Most important is that as you can see above, he used virtually the same
theme and words which were used by Christopher Bollyn in an article he
wrote after telephoning me within days of our release of the CIA Fakes
article in August, 2005.

Bollyn's American Free Press had been included in the list of websites
and his article was an attempt to deflect the effect of our assertions.

It's hard to believe that Muir developed this stance after he joined
the forum. Our CIA Fakes material is well known, and usually when
someone joins a forum it is because they like the stance of the website.

Because of the highly independent stand we take, we often get people
coming on board with an agenda of disruption or disinformation, which
they mask at first. I think Muir has such an agenda.

Muir's anti-CIA Fakes stance is rather lightweight. I have scores of hours
of audio, and thousands of words of analysis. So far, all he has done is
to say this no proof, but has offered neither a substantive argument, nor
any detailed critique. I think his main aim is now pure forum disruption.

That aim is evidenced as you can see above, by laughable allegations
that ATM is FBI. Also by his use of emotive personal attacks. And it's
clear from the Muir quotes above that not only does he understand
'Cointelpro' tactics but he seems to be using them.

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John Muir



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In his reply John Muir steered clear of important issues.

Its interesting how you accuse people of steering clear of “important issues”, but you are guilty of that yourself. You have not answered many of the important questions that I have brought up. Thing is you would not know a logically valid argument if it slapped you in the face. But let me make myself clear. The main point that I am arguing is that the Free Tibet movement is CIA and to support that movment is to be following a CIA led movement. In support of that contention I post several You Tube pieces and articles that show that the CIA has been behind the Free Tibet Movement for decades. The Dalai Lamas brothers were trained by the CIA. Why should anyone think that the CIA is not involved now? They have been behind the principals for decades. You don’t even deny that this is the case.

Quote:
Muir's anti-CIA Fakes stance is rather lightweight. I have scores of hours
of audio, and thousands of words of analysis. So far, all he has done is
to say this no proof, but has offered neither a substantive argument, nor
any detailed critique. I think his main aim is now pure forum disruption.


Yes, there is no proof. Proof to my mind is documentation FOIA documents, witnesses that come forward and say yes I was a hired by the CIA to discredit the 9-11 Truth Movement. You have nothing dude. It would take documentation and witnesses to convince a jury. Furthermore your contentions would never convince a jury that ALL of the sites you name in your list are CIA fakes. Here is a question for you Fintan, I doubt that you will answer. Are you up to the challenge?
1. Do you think that the analysis that you have presented amounts to proof beyond a reasonable doubt that those websites are CIA?

2. Do you think that the analysis that you have presented is up to the civil court standard for conviction of the preponderance of the evidence?

I don’t think that you have met either of these standards. If you want to think that this “stance is rather lightweight” go ahead. You Fintan are the one making the claim that ALL of those sites are “CIA Fakes” its your job to SHOW that to be the case. I would consider hard proof to be FOIA documents showing that ANY of the people that you accused as being fakes are being paid by the CIA or any other spook agency of the USA. Now when Bernstein published his article on, “CIA in Media”, he had proof. Bernstein did interviews with the principals involved. He had FOIA documents to back him up. Fintan you on the other hand offer nothing in the way of documentation to SHOW your point. Since you don’t offer evidence in the way that Bernstein did. I think that it is reasonable to doubt that not ALL of the sites that you have listed are CIA FAKES.

Quote:
Well at least the fact that Muir espouses Marxism is out in the open,
so I suppose that could explain his support for the Chinese 'Party'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Ad_hominem_circumstantial


This “argument” of yours is an informal fallacy. It is known as the Ad hominem circumstantial fallacy. I don’t support the Chinese effort to end the riots because I have left wing beliefs. I support it because the Tibetans are killing innocent people. Either way you assertions don’t hold water and are not considered to be reasonable arguments by the tenants of logical argument.

Quote:
I noticed McGehee being endorsed by people who we know are
extremely dubious, to put it mildly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

3) The CIA's Ralph McGehee has smeared the Tibetan's cause as a CIA Plot.

So I reckon it's pretty clear that the real CIA Plot is to try to isolate the
Tibetans from potential support by anti-establishment folks in the West.

I have pointed out the holes in your reasoning several times in the thread. Case in point your argument the Ralph McGehee is still some how CIA. Your argument on for this contention is also an informal fallacy, known as Guilt by Association. Its an association fallacy. Using this kind of faulty reasoning one could conclude that you are CIA, Fintan. It would be like me arguing:
Fintan Dunne has published known CIA front articles from Radio Free Asia. Therefore he must be CIA. Its your use of the association fallacy that leads me to question your CIA FAKES list.
Here is another question for you point blank.
Do you believe that there is even such a thing as an “Ex-CIA agent?

Quote:
And it's clear from the Muir quotes above that not only does he understand
'Cointelpro' tactics but he seems to be using them.


I understand snitch jacketing. It looks like that’s what you did to the 9-11 websites that you don’t agree with. I think that could make you some kind of disinformation agent yourself. I don’t know if you are but your actions are more in line with that than mine are. Fintan can you cite some documentation to show that I am “using” Cointelpro tactics as you claim? Here is a link to the Church Committee documents for you to peruse. http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm
I think that you will find no parallels there to what I have done in here which is question you and point out the holes in your logic what little there is of it. It lends weight to a persons argument when they use documentation to back up their claims. So when are you going to produce some Fintan?
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Good evening.

Tonight is indeed a unique occasion in the history of television.
We are very privileged, and deeply honoured to have with us in the studio,
Karl Marx, founder of modern socialism, and author of the 'Communist Manifesto'.....

Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov, better known to the world as Lenin, leader of the
Russian Revolution, writer, statesman, and father of modern communism....

Che Guevara, the Cuban guerrilla leader.....

And Mao Tse-tung, leader of the Chinese Communist Party since 1949.


And the first question is for you, Karl Marx.

The Hammers - the Hammers is the nickname
of what English football team? 'the Hammers?

(shot of Karl Marx furrowing his brow- obviously he hasn't a clue) No?

Well bad luck there, Karl. So we'll go onto you Che.

Che Guevara - Coventry City last won the FA Cup in what year?

(cut to Che looking equally dumbfounded) No?

I'll throw it open. Coventry City last won the FA Cup in what year?

(they all look blank) No?

Well, I'm not surprised you didn't get that.

It was in fact a trick question. Coventry City have never won the FA Cup.


So with the scores all equal now we go onto our second round,
and Lenin it's your starter for ten.

Teddy Johnson and Pearl Carr won the Eurovision Song Contest
in 1959. What was the name of the song? ...

Teddy Johnson and Pearl Carr's song in the 1959 Eurovision Song Contest? Anybody?

(buzzer goes... zoom in on Mao Tse-tung) Yes, Mao Tse-tung?

Mao Tse-tung: 'Sing Little Birdie'?

Presenter: Yes it was indeed. Well challenged. (applause)



Well now we come on to our special gift section.
The contestant is Karl Marx and the prize this week
is a beautiful lounge suite.

(curtains behind the presenter sweep open to reveal a beautiful lounge suite;
terrific audience applause;
Karl comes out and stands in front of this display)

Now Karl has elected to, answer questions on the workers'
control of factories so here we go with question number one.

Are you nervous? (Karl nods his head; the presenter reads from a card)

The development of the industrial proletariat is conditioned by
what other development?

Karl: The development of the industrial bourgeoisie.

(applause)

Presenter: Yes, yes, it is indeed.

You're on your way to the lounge suite, Karl.

Question number two. The struggle of class against class
is a what struggle? A what struggle?

Karl: A political struggle.

(Tumultuous applause.)

Presenter: Yes, yes!

One final question Karl and the beautiful lounge suite will be yours...

Are you going to have a go? (Karl nods) You're a brave man. ...


Karl Marx, your final question, who won the Cup Final in 1949?

Karl: The workers' control of the means of production?.....

The struggle of the urban proletariat?

Presenter: No.

It was in fact, Wolverhampton Wanderers who beat Leicester 3-1.

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why should anyone think that the CIA is not involved now?
They have been behind the principals for decades. You don’t even
deny that this is the case.


Of course I don't???

The CIA are involved now dude!!

Covering for the Chinese in the new globalist market.

Stop living in the past. This is 2008 - not 1950.

Welcome to the New World Order.

Quote:
Proof to my mind is documentation FOIA documents,


Give me a fucking break. Yeah, the CIA are gonna release that. Laughing Laughing

What I do is political analysis and intelligence analysis.
If you're too dim to see it, that's not my problem.

But I don't think you are that dim. That's not the problem.
You are parroting CIA Fake lines articulated by Chris Bollyn.

You are here to NOT get it! Wink

Quote:
1. Do you think that the analysis that you have presented amounts
to proof beyond a reasonable doubt that those websites are CIA?

2. Do you think that the analysis that you have presented is up to the civil
court standard for conviction of the preponderance of the evidence?

You Bet!!


Quote:
Quote:
Well at least the fact that Muir espouses Marxism is out in the open,
so I suppose that could explain his support for the Chinese 'Party'
.

Muir: I don’t support the Chinese effort to end the riots because I have left
wing beliefs. I support it because the Tibetans are killing innocent people.


Oh I see! So it's a total coincidence that you
are a Marxist and China's 'Party' are (notionally) Marxist.

How fucking stupid do you think we are? Laughing Laughing Laughing

Quote:
Case in point your argument the Ralph McGehee is still some how CIA.
Your argument on for this contention is also an informal fallacy,
known as Guilt by Association.


Now you're finally getting it! Congratulations.

That's the meat and bones of Mafia RICO convictions.


So now answer two simple questions:

Why are you paraphrasing CIA Fake Christopher Bollyn?


Quote:
John Muir: Its funny how Fintan only put the SMALL fries that he THINKS
are CIA on his fakes list. But he forgot about the New York Times and the
whole of the mainstream media that we know from actual documentation are CIA riddled.
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42228#42228

Christopher Bollyn:
Why have you not included USA Today? This mainstream paper is known
to be CIA asset, no question about it. Are none of the controlled mainstream
media outlets "CIA fakes" in your opinon? Are only small independent
researchers who actually probe into the facts of 911 included on your list?
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message137086/pg1


If you agree with his line, why did you join the forum --if not to disrupt?

(Meaning you are as dishonest as when you lied about being a Marxist.)

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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Che Guevara - Coventry City last won the FA Cup in what year?

(cut to Che looking equally dumbfounded) No?

I'll throw it open. Coventry City last won the FA Cup in what year?

(they all look blank) No?

Well, I'm not surprised you didn't get that.

It was in fact a trick question. Coventry City have never won the FA Cup.


Um, actually, Coventry City won the FA Cup in 1987. They beat Spurs 3-2.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/TheFACup/History/Postings/2003/11/46668.htm

How could you forget?!

atm Cool
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok - very good challenge ATM !!

Fair's fair....

That beautiful lounge suite is YOURS!

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atm



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't I just have Dusty Bin? Go on Ted, go on.

But not just any old one. I want this one:



http://www.vectisdirect.co.uk/marx_dusty_bin_walking_toy_boxed_1978.html

"Wind him up and watch him go...."

atm Laughing
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John Muir



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that you created a little concentration camp for this topic. You want to stay “focused”. You are a censor and practice censorship here on your web board. Its just more hypocrisy on your part Fintan. I see that you wanted to keep the thread "free" so you could parrot the CIA MEDIA line. Did you find anymore good tidbits on the known CIA FAKE media outlet RADIO FREE ASIA? This is a documented CIA FAKE. You remember this right? Its on your wagnews site the site where you wag your tail for CIA MEDIA:
Quote:
According to a report by Radio Free Asia,
villagers saw police putting police uniforms on
three villagers' bodies and taking photos.

The armed police and riot teams cleared the
scene in front of the power plant where they
had fired on the villagers. Villagers burned
incense and knelt down before the police,
begging to get the bodies of their family
members back.
http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/12/another-tiananmen-civillians-massacred.html


BTW WHY DO YOU QUOTE FROM THE CIA'S AGIT PROP MOUTH PIECE?

Yeah, the “CIA is Covering for the Chinese” that must be why they publish stories like this on their website. BTW have you visited their site lately? All of the coverage there is very sympathetic to the Tibetan cause. This blows a hole in your contention that the CIA is covering for them. Radio Free Asia’s coverage can hardly be construed that way. I am sure that this won’t register with you. You can’t seem to comprehend when you have been contradicted. Here check out the site: http://www.rfa.org/english/news/2008/03/26/china_baotong/

Quote:
Quote:
Why should anyone think that the CIA is not involved now?
They have been behind the principals for decades. You don’t even
deny that this is the case.



Of course I don't???

The CIA are involved now dude!!

Covering for the Chinese in the new globalist market.

Stop living in the past. This is 2008 - not 1950.

Welcome to the New World Order.


If you think that the CIA are covering for the Chinese. You obviously don’t understand historical connections. Maybe I was unclear here what I was trying to say is: Why should anyone think that the CIA are not behind the riots? But you seem to be saying yes they are involved but they are “covering for the Chinese”. If the CIA were covering don’t you think that they would use their influence to bury the story in the media? Where is the proof that the CIA is “covering for the Chinese”? It is certainly not on their Asian Propaganda mouth piece Radio Free Asia that you love to quote from.

Quote:
Quote:
Proof to my mind is documentation FOIA documents,



Give me a fucking break. Yeah, the CIA are gonna release that.
What I do is political analysis and intelligence analysis.
If you're too dim to see it, that's not my problem.

But I don't think you are that dim. That's not the problem.
You are parroting CIA Fake lines articulated by Chris Bollyn.

You are here to NOT get it!


You left out “witnesses that come forward and say yes I was a hired by the CIA to discredit the 9-11 Truth Movement. You have nothing dude. It would take documentation and witnesses to convince a jury.” from your quote of me. Let me make one thing clear. I do think that some of the sites you named are fakes. I just don’t think that All of them are. Bernstein used documentation to back up his claims. There are other ways to connect those people to the CIA. One way would be to find links to known CIA fronts by following the money. I also said that finding a witness would be proof as well. You left that out of the quote . I wonder why? I have never read Chris Bollyn’s work but we obviously make the same great point that you only seem care about these inconsequential obscure websites but make no mention of the heavies.

Quote:
Quote:
1. Do you think that the analysis that you have presented amounts
to proof beyond a reasonable doubt that those websites are CIA?

2. Do you think that the analysis that you have presented is up to the civil
court standard for conviction of the preponderance of the evidence?


You Bet!!


If you think that your “analysis” is enough to convince a jury, then why don’t you bring your case to court? Your case would be dismissed so fast that your head would spin. Fintan your opinion is not enough to get a case in front of a jury. You need evidence. Your opinion is not proof. There is a big difference between saying, “I think so and so is CIA”, and “So and so is CIA”.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well at least the fact that Muir espouses Marxism is out in the open,
so I suppose that could explain his support for the Chinese 'Party'.
Muir: I don’t support the Chinese effort to end the riots because I have left
wing beliefs. I support it because the Tibetans are killing innocent people.



Oh I see! So it's a total coincidence that you
are a Marxist and China's 'Party' are (notionally) Marxist.

How fucking stupid do you think we are?


Very stupid, I see that you don’t seem to understand what an Ad Hominem Circumstantial fallacy is. Its over your head I understand.

Quote:
Quote:
Case in point your argument the Ralph McGehee is still some how CIA.
Your argument on for this contention is also an informal fallacy,
known as Guilt by Association. Now you're finally getting it! Congratulations.

That's the meat and bones of Mafia RICO convictions.


So, you admit that your reasoning is unsound on this. Thanks for the admission. That’s big of you. You don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to RICO.
Quote:

So now answer two simple questions:

Why are you paraphrasing CIA Fake Christopher Bollyn?

If you agree with his line, why did you join the forum --if not to disrupt?

(Meaning you are as dishonest as when you lied about being a Marxist.)


I see more grasping at straws. This is another informal fallacy. It is known as a false dicotomy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma You have a black belt Fintan in the underhanded debate arts.
I explained the Marxist question. I did not paraphrase anyone. I came to the same conclusion he did just years later. If challenging you and your claims is what you consider to be “disruption” then think what you want. I know you love to surround yourself with sycophantic yes men. But you like to shut up people such as Paulo_Freire: http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4087. Is what he claims you did to him true? Did you shutdown his access to the board? Just because you did not like what he had to say? If you did doesn’t that make you just as bad as the Fascist that you rail against in here?

I am beginning to see that Paulo was right when he said:

Quote:
The fakes list deliberately placed a few good progressive domains into a list with utter tinfoil. No freeper websites are listed.
This place is run like a cult. How is this not a cult? Hertzberg thought he had DrewTerry in his claws. He wanted to further indoctrinate him using skype. Drew said he'd only agree to that if Hertzy revealed his real name. And Navari was stupid enough to admit it. ObeyLittle then figured out that he was the Director of the Election Science Institute, a group that whitewashed election fraud in Ohio.

Fintan banned me from this place but has made it seem that I am still a member.

He bans people without doing it above board. He turns his embarrassed buddy Steven Hertzberg into a guest, while he hijacks the usernames of anyone who dares to share independent thought.



Two easy questions for you:
Why should I trust your analysis, if you don't use logical arguments? I have now caught you using 3 informal fallacies.

Why do you parrot the CIA’s Radio Free Asia Line on Tibet?
http://www.rfa.org/english/
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John Muir



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan can you cite some documentation to show that I am “using” Cointelpro tactics as you claim? Here is a link to the Church Committee documents for you to peruse. http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm
I think that you will find no parallels there to what I have done in here which is question you and point out the holes in your logic what little there is of it. It lends weight to a persons argument when they use documentation to back up their claims. So when are you going to produce some Fintan?

I have even given you a source where you will find out what exactly Cointelpro tactics are. So how is what I am doing here in line with your assertion that I use cointelpro tactics? It seems that once more you don't know what you are talking about.
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atm



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John

I think the following is as good an example of what Fintan has been getting at.

What links this rogues gallery?

Jeff Rense

Henry Makow, PhD

Alex Jones / Paul Joseph Watson / Steve Watson et al, ad infinitum

Joe Vialls

Conspiracy Planet

Aljazeera

Free Press International

Jihad Unspun

Islam Memo

International Action Center

Free Arab Voice

This does:

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jul/27-595713.html

As does this:

http://www.rense.com/Datapages/stdept.htm

And this:

http://infowars.net/Pages/Aug05/300805potkettleblack.htm

Birds of a feather...

atm
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RockDock



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Posts: 366

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atm wrote:
Quote:


It was in fact a trick question. Coventry City have never won the FA Cup.


Um, actually, Coventry City won the FA Cup in 1987. They beat Spurs 3-2.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/TheFACup/History/Postings/2003/11/46668.htm

How could you forget?!

atm Cool


Ahhh, but when the Monty Python skit written and first performed, Coventry City had never won the FA Cup.

I will have the lounge suite please. Smile

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Fuck your yellow ribbon
If you want to
Support your troops
Bring them home
And hold them tight
When they get here
-Andrea Gibson - For Eli
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