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Impossible Plots of The Terror War
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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:07 pm    Post subject: Impossible Plots of The Terror War Reply with quote

Inadequate Deception: The Impossible Plots of the Terror War

Excellent article on the beneficial management of "terror". Kudos to Don Smith for the tip.

http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/

Quote:

Terror Games

Suppose you were running a counter-terrorism unit. What would you need? A huge budget -- obviously! But what else? You'd need lots of good people, and you'd need good ways to train them, and good ways to test them. You'd also need to make sure that they passed their tests.

If you were running a conventional military unit, you could do quite a bit of training and testing using relatively short war games. A war game is a simulated battle, with people from the same army (or its allies) playing both "sides". One side "attacks" and the other side "defends", and even though it's not exactly like a real battle, it can be an excellent learning tool. Some war games are designed to last a long time, but many are not, because you can do a lot of training, and a lot of testing, in a week, or even a weekend.

But the war on terror is a different kind of war, and it requires a different kind of war game. Instead of a series of battles, the war on terror involves complex surveillance operations lasting months -- or years. So a war game in the war on terror -- a "terror game" -- would be designed to last a while.

If you were planning a terror game, you wouldn't want your people playing bad guys for months at a time, if you could get somebody else to do it. Fortunately for you, it wouldn't be too hard to recruit some "bad guys" and give them a "plot" to work on. Then your people could watch them while you waited for -- or arranged -- a most opportune moment to "foil" "their" "plot".

In this way you could "pass" your "test", "prove" your "worth" and "justify" an enormous increase in your huge budget.

Knuckleheads and Cutouts

As in most endeavors, much depends on your people. For this job you'd need to avoid anybody bright enough to suspect you of scamming, so you'd be looking for knuckeheads. Fortunately, plenty of knuckleheads are available.

You couldn't do the recruiting directly. The knuckleheads you'd be looking for would never knowingly work for you. Instead you'd have to use a "cutout" to do the recruiting for you. But this wouldn't be a problem. And it would have some powerful advantages.

If the cutout did his job properly, the knuckleheads would never think anything was amiss. They wouldn't suspect they were dealing with a cutout, let alone working for you. And they certainly wouldn't know they were part of a terror game.

It would all be very serious business to them -- and rightly so, for the aftermath of a terror game isn't like that of a conventional war game, when the two "adversaries" get together for steaks and beers to compare notes and so on ...

The "bad guys" in a terror game won't be invited to any barbecues. They'll be arrested; incarcerated and possibly tortured; tried, and potentially convicted and sentenced to long prison terms. For them, it's not a game by any means.

There's enormous deception going on here, and if you were running it, you could set it up in a couple of different ways. You could use a single cutout, but he'd have to be a great actor because he would have to deceive all the knuckleheads all the time. Or you could use two cutouts, one of them deceiving the other, who then passes the messages on to all the rest. In this model, the cutout dealing with the knuckleheads is himself a knucklehead!

People are always more convincing when they believe what they're saying. So using a knucklehead as a "leader" of knuckleheads is almost always a good idea. It simply requires a second cutout.

The term "cutout" comes from covert operations. In a covert op, a cutout isolates the perpetrators from the planners. The perpetrators think they're working for the cutout; they don't know anything about the planners. So even if the perpetrators are captured, they can't implicate the people who are actually running the operation.

This is one of the ways in which covert operations stay covert. And most covert operations do stay covert long enough to be considered successful, if not forever. But if things go wrong and the perpetrators get captured, then the planners can protect themselves by eliminating the cutout (or cutouts).

Using multiple cutouts may seem overly complicated to you. But to any reasonably sophisticated covert agency, it's child's play.



-- cont'd at link

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indigitydogdignation



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've known for a long time that the "terror" networks never target the top of the pyramid, and we've always known how important compartmentalization is in all areas of intel, especially in managing and selectively using terror networks. Thanks for finding a source willing to speculate a little further. I've always thought that Osama and Zawahiri were shills, though it never occured to me that they could have been shilling each other. Probably they weren't, but the strategy outlined in the article applies on may levels in Al-CIAduh, ...maybe we don't need to know who's who, since finding out might take several lifetimes.

Implied somewhat in the article but not actually discussed is the issue of how effectively these terror networks have been controlled, and the implicit danger in loosing that control. A question I've been asking myself for years seems to have been largely overlooked: How much more lethal would these radicals be if they finally woke up and realized they've been managed, to a large degree, by their nominal enemies, and for so many years? Perhaps they'll no longer wait for the kinds of instructions that rarely if ever came? Perhaps they'll decide to attack but deny any involvement, leaving a newly awakened public to speculate on thoughts of treason from the big boys, in place of actual terror? More likely still, the establishment could play upon this last option and use their twisted situational advantages to punish us for confronting their treason.

I'm willing to speculate that the danger of a radical Islamic awakening is potent enough, or seemingly so, or even artificially so, to discourage the kinds of disclosures/whistle-blowings that could actually lead us somewhere. All things considered, we'd be living in a much safer world if the radicals could figure things out on their own, and loudly denounce terror as an ambiguous and self-destructive option, universally. Lowering the number of possible recruits to a trickle would seriously hamper ongoing operations, (though Zarkowi was made of whole cloth and the potential for bs will always be somewhat infinite.) Not to mention, the ongoing pestilence of US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan gives people all the wrong incentives.
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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indigitydogdignation wrote:

Implied somewhat in the article but not actually discussed is the issue of how effectively these terror networks have been controlled, and the implicit danger in loosing that control. A question I've been asking myself for years seems to have been largely overlooked: How much more lethal would these radicals be if they finally woke up and realized they've been managed, to a large degree, by their nominal enemies, and for so many years? Perhaps they'll no longer wait for the kinds of instructions that rarely if ever came? Perhaps they'll decide to attack but deny any involvement, leaving a newly awakened public to speculate on thoughts of treason from the big boys, in place of actual terror? More likely still, the establishment could play upon this last option and use their twisted situational advantages to punish us for confronting their treason.

I'm willing to speculate that the danger of a radical Islamic awakening is potent enough, or seemingly so, or even artificially so, to discourage the kinds of disclosures/whistle-blowings that could actually lead us somewhere. All things considered, we'd be living in a much safer world if the radicals could figure things out on their own, and loudly denounce terror as an ambiguous and self-destructive option, universally. Lowering the number of possible recruits to a trickle would seriously hamper ongoing operations, (though Zarkowi was made of whole cloth and the potential for bs will always be somewhat infinite.) Not to mention, the ongoing pestilence of US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan gives people all the wrong incentives.

I undertand what you're saying, and this comment is pure speculation on my part, but.... I think if there was a way to count the number of actual terrorists willing to wreak havoc for the sake of Islam, I think we'd find it was a shockingly low, insignificant number.

Jill Layton: "How many terrorists do you know Sam? Actual terrorists? (Brazil, 1985)

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indigitydogdignation



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Rump: I undertand what you're saying, and this comment is pure speculation on my part, but.... I think if there was a way to count the number of actual terrorists willing to wreak havoc for the sake of Islam, I think we'd find it was a shockingly low, insignificant number.


Very few indeed, ...until taking radical action serves the larger purpose of destroying the reputations of western leaders. Presently, wreaking havoc would only give them more power and public support. The power elite will exercise all manner of creative punishments when the scales are finally tipped against them, with new dimensions of popular resentment to dress up and play around with. It would help if the remaining radicals would limit their attacks to those who actually deserve to be attacked, (....ye shall know them by their fruits?) but what if they get more payback from killing large numbers of civilians and blaming it on the power elite? It only takes a few people to start an avalanche.
If such a potential exists at all, there's nothing to keep the power elite from exploiting it to even more destructive ends than we've seen or imagined.
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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say this much - it's fairly obvious to me that one of the underlying reasons for Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is to try to push the buttons of those Arabs that are not already enraged enough to thinking about "doing something". Just like the truth movement, there are a lot of people just simmering on the back burner, waiting for a bigger excuse to take some action, or not knowing how to.

And that is another reason why I think there are possibly "not enough" knuckleheads for intel's purposes. It seems to me that maybe they have to sometimes poke the hive with a stick.

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Hocus Locus



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumpl4skn wrote:
And that is another reason why I think there are possibly "not enough" knuckleheads for intel's purposes. It seems to me that maybe they have to sometimes poke the hive with a stick.

Yeeeah!! Go Rumpie!!

We're just too dag-burned smart and civilized. We need to git riled up.

Like the stupid car that just wouldn't explode when it was supposed to.

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Ready and waiting for some catasrophic and catalizing event, like a new season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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indigitydogdignation



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I should have said this more than once: I'm trying to assess the situation through the eyes of functionairs and insiders who are sitting on information that could prove quite condemning, and who'd love to blow the lid off the circus but find themselves paralysed. I believe they're guided by concerns reaching far beyond any forseeable consequences to them, their families or their collegues. Again: Take any threat of homegrown terrorism out of the picture and you still have the potential for all the machinations I've described.

Twisted Evil "...all this speculation about conspiracy theories makes us more vulnerable to attack." Twisted Evil ...sober advice to some, but it reads like a genuine threat to my ears, though not the kind of threat that would reach US or shut OUR mouths. After all, we're spinable and otherwise ignorable.

Will the 9-11 guilty go down without a huge fight? And if we ever came close to actually 'getting them,' (ie - approaching the point of indicitments, prosecutions, interrogations, etc,) will they have anything to loose? I would say they'd have plenty to loose, if things were handled properly. While we're waiting, those with the means and the motivation to change things are inhibited by layers of doubts and concerns that we don't often touch upon in our musings, and they won't come forward until the public shows some smarts and more confidence than history alone would allow for.

edit - ...and we'll never have any real power at all until those of us who are 'waking up' learn to think outside of the box without crawling into another, and another, and another.

Quote:
Rump: And that is another reason why I think there are possibly "not enough" knuckleheads for intel's purposes.


Wrong. Plenty of people would eagerly blow themselves and x # of civilians to the heavens....

Quote:
It seems to me that maybe they have to sometimes poke the hive with a stick.

....if goaded properly. Right now they're selling the 'war on terror,' and they want us to believe that it's working.
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M$onic_G



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I post this because I remember you saying something along the lines of AJ did predict 9/11. In that case, judge for yourself:
William Cooper speaking on 28 6 2001
Alex Jones speaking on July 25 2001


Here we have Cooper speaking on Osama before the the time.

Anyhow, all of you are missing the action down here in London. Not only do we have 'terror, terror, everywhere', they also have a now popular gun crime card, which translates to:

oh them crazy niggers, they're killing themselves. The police really ought to show them a lesson. I hope they get what they deserve. Can't anyone tame these savage animals. This country is really getting like America now...



Which conveniently has the benefits of

SAS: blending of them crazy fundies and crazy niggers together to give the police a brilliant reason to stop whoever they so desire, under the holy word of 'suspicion'.



*Strange thing is, if I made a case to stop police on the grounds of suspicion, I'd be a conspiracy theorist. If a religious person said they were inspired to believe something of someone, they'd be called deluded, however, the Government is GOD, therefore, anything official is holy and not to be questionned. What's that, but the police are special you say? I thought all men were created evil. Furthermore, if these terrorists are so devious, surely some could be police?

OK... the fun is over... thinking of conspirayc theories, I had no idea that Osama may not be a complete scam. (Do keep in mind however, this is affiliated with GCN)

Scott talks with the formerly anonymous Michael Scheuer about his book Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror.

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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wrong. Plenty of people would eagerly blow themselves and x # of civilians to the heavens....

Think want you want, but that is contrary to basic human nature. I know a few Fundy Christians quite well, and even they don't want to go to Heaven unless they can fantasize about them all being Raptured up at once. Otherwise - they'd be sitting there with Jesus, but someone down here would get all their 'stuff'. Wink

To each his own, but I think you're buying the "they're homicidal maniacs!" op too well. I think the % of Muslims who are truly convinced of the 71 virgins scam is infinitely small - yet regularly blown out of proportion in order to perpetually widen the chasm between the sides in this phony 'war'.

So... we simply disagree. Cool

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Peter



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: If at first you don't succeed, blow it all out of proportion Reply with quote

Well, first they preyed on the zealots (blew them all up)
then they made use of the desperate (kids wanting to leave something for their families) (blew them all up)
now they are using the mentally infirm (blowing them all up)

They are running out of the gullible and the insane. Time's up!

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PatrickSMcNally



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumpl4skn wrote:
I know a few Fundy Christians quite well,

It should at least be recognized that there's a qualitative difference between Christian "zealots" raised in a very wealthy imperial nation versus Muslims from the Arab world who may see their land as being colonized. The latter context involves motivations which no fundamentalist Christian in the USA could share.
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Grumpy



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickSMcNally

Quote:
It should at least be recognized that there's a qualitative difference between Christian "zealots" raised in a very wealthy imperial nation versus Muslims from the Arab world who may see their land as being colonized. The latter context involves motivations which no fundamentalist Christian in the USA could share.


Many Fundies say "their" country is being taken over by liberals, Humanists, Atheists, Jewish conspiracies, government persecution, blacks, hispanics............... Osama himself was raised in a privileged lifestyle most Americans cannot even dream of. I excuse no one for their actions just because life is tough or unfair, especially those who base their hatred and violence in religious fantasies, the source of most of these conflicts to begin with. Even the False conspiracy theories and lies told about 911 could "justify" someone's irresponsible actions(troother behavior toward family members at Ground Zero comes to mind or killtown's vicious lies about the lady that took the photo of flt 93). Someday, one of you loons will kill someone based on your erroneous beliefs, it's inevitable. McVeigh was a conspiracy nutjob, though more of the "Jews did it" sort(Which you have a few of on this forum, I would point out).

So, qualitative difference??? Hardly.

Grumpy Cool

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