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paradox
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 212
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 Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: Fallacy |
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What I see above is guilt by association. Steeler supports Paul, so Paul is bad?
Common guys, that top ten list has more solid points to be made, even if some of those are false too. Stop the easy smear and attack the substance.
_________________
There is no single definition of truth about which the majority of philosophers agree. -Wikipedia.org |
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bri
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2887
Location: Capacious Creek
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I see how you mean, that wasn't my exact intention. If you listen to that specific radio show,and read Steele's work on Ron Paul it's easier to understand what are perhaps Paul's underlying policies, as made clear in the list you also mention.
Aside, what you see below gives me a funny feeling.
| Quote: | ------------------------------------------------------------
Elitists Consider Assassinating Ron Paul
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Best-selling author and Bilderberg sleuth Daniel Estulin says he has received information from sources inside the U.S. intelligence community which suggests that people from the highest levels of the U.S. government are considering an assassination attempt against Congressman Ron Paul because they are threatened by his more... burgeoning popularity.
Estulin, whose information has unfortunately proven very accurate in the past, went public with the bombshell news during an appearance on The Alex Jones Show today.
"I am getting information from my sources that there are people involved from a higher level of the American establishment who are seriously considering - this has not been confirmed - but assassination is definitely on the agenda and I pray to God that this is not the case," said Estulin. |
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bri
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2887
Location: Capacious Creek
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Another thing that made me uneasy tonight. I was watching a Ron Paul event with my roommate, and guess who is standing behind Ron the whole time? I know he is a big supporter,
| Quote: | | The Ron Paul bus with Shotgun 01 and Dave vonKleist ill arrive early to do the last hour of The Power Hour radio show live at 9am cst. |
and it almost seems he arrived with the entourage. I'll have to wait for the video to go up on youtube for actual confirmation of this.
Before I get flamed, no this is not concrete proof that Paul is a fake.
I took a screen shot when I realized who it was. There are much clearer shots that I will try to capture later. I would not normally use such a blurry screen capture.
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PatrickSMcNally
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 846
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Hocus Locus
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out
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bri
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2887
Location: Capacious Creek
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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You nailed it Hocus.
On a lighter note, here is proof that Ron Paul is not a racist. And that he IS capable of changing his mind on certain issues such as the death penalty.
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Hocus Locus
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Daniel Estulin wrote: | | received information from sources inside the U.S. intelligence community which suggests that people from the highest levels of the U.S. government ((or whoever)) are considering an assassination attempt against Congressman Ron Paul because they are threatened by his more... burgeoning popularity. |
I brought this very risk up last May (and raised the Hocus threat level to ORANGE)
bri, perhaps you're in a position to see that the idea gets to the right people...?
<<<REPOST<<< HL BFN 18-May-2007
I am aligned with Ron Paul (though electorally impotent, American citizen but living in Territory, no seat) and without a hint of tinfoil I'd like to propose something... it is I believe a revolutionary idea.
What we have in Ron Paul is quite possibly a left field candidate, one that those in the shadow one-party system not only do not endorse but did not anticipate, and as such, grassroots support for this candidate is going to be watched carefully, and managed closely if at all possible because it represents a wildcard factor and possible 'upset'.
I'll probably hit the radar for even broaching the subject, as I probably should -- but I will point out directly that historically, the last refuge of the ruthless and politically incompetent has been assasination. Or when such tactics are not in their best interest, an untimely death apparently of natural causes.
Even if my BFN chums are not in full consensus of whether Paul's playbook is that of a stalwart independent or not, play along with me here.
I propose a tactic of Political Position Life Assurance.
*GIVEN* an assumption that he is an independent, and a wildcard, and his campaign should progress to that arbitrary tipping point from which assasination would be considered by some to be increasingly necessary -- the motive and purpose of these perverts would be to plan the Event for a point in time where it could be safely assumed that the movement to elect him would no longer have enough time to regroup, and his supporters would hold their noses and choose a candidate whose playbook is stamped;
*OR* if there is enough time remaining, a new lone 'Trojan Horse' Ron Paul' would serendipitously arise to gather all of Paul's support and then fold, cede or be brought down by preplanted crisis;
*THEN* the best preemptive tactic would be the same one employed by the Reverend Martin Luther King, and the Prophet Mohammad for that matter (as I posed in this 06-Dec-2006 essay at BFN) would be to play a 'last prophet' card.
In which one specifically does not appoint a successor in the dynastical sense (a process prone to subversion) but rather lays out the tenets of one's ideas into a framework; in a sense empowering everyone, equally. In the sense of one running for Office, this would mean that Paul is merely assembling the platform and presenting it and any number of followers step up to the plate and pledge not only their support for the underlying idea, but they are ready to take the reins directly and offer themselves to the campaign ticket should any unfortunate event render Paul unable to run.
What I propose then is essentially the creation of a new, full Political Party here.
For that is the original intent of the political party, what they were originally meant to do -- provide a place to safeguard an ideology while providing the necessary safety in numbers to dissuade the any-means-to-an-end crowd from solving their 'problem' with a single bullet.
I believe that in allowing our two parties to become subversely compromised, we have brought ourselves to such an extremely vulnerable state of affairs. 9/11 proves that there are no freaking limits to what may be actively planned, or (if you will) permitted to happen to further a Global agenda.
And since the system has been compromised so deeply -- it is completely impossible that any single candidate could succeed -- because there is no party protection from that single bullet.
In this regard, the kindest and most patriotic thing Ron Paul's supporters could do at this point, for the Man as well as his Ideas, is to form, with his active assistence and participation, a political party around him. This shield -- where it is implicitly assumed that should one fall, another will step forward to carry the ticket -- being done in the full light of public transparency -- assasination is not a viable option.
I also think that the mainstream people who routinely fail to 'think the unthinkable' because it is uncomfortable or unpopular, has allowed us to fall into a soft state. I believe that 100, 150 years ago peoples' confidence and vestment in the political process was so much greater that fronting the possibility of a breakaway cabal who are capable of considering assasination would could been discussed openly, directly. People would nod their heads, say "yes such a thing is certainly possible..." and might even follow along to the next proposed course of action to mitigate this risk.
That action is to create a New Party.
If Ron Paul loves America as much as I think he does -- it is high time for him to create a Party, a new party. AND NOT some open debate platform that attracts the platform-by-committee toads either. A Party that has as its tenets his own political positions, straight out and clearly defined at this point in time. Clear and directly stated enough to make a real pledge into. To 're-use' any existing party mechanism, or invite a full committee power-treatment into the organization of a New Party would be, at this point in time, to create another opportunity for compromise. In order to succeed it (at least) must begin as a cult of personality.
Currently there is no framework for Ron Paul's position to rest on -- and that is a urgent and dangerous condition. I hereby raise the Hocus Locus Terror Threat Level to ORANGE
Life Assurance for Paul, a Party would be a shield from that magic bullet. Ideology and ticket assurance for the rest of us. From my take of his personae, I think he might give a nod.
___
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office."
~Ambrose Bierce |
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bri
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2887
Location: Capacious Creek
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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100-150 years ago? Oh you mean "white men people", Hocus?
Or just some "tea party"?
Time to move on.
Ah the good old days when I wasn't (and I'm guessing you weren't) born.
Yes I agree a new party is in order.
And yes I agree his "message" is important(I have heard this endless times), only to a certain extent.
Will we live up to the "good side"?
Last edited by bri on Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:50 am; edited 2 times in total |
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bri
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2887
Location: Capacious Creek
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| I have been invited to meet Ron Paul, or at least hear him speak on Sunday by my roommate. I will let y'all know how it goes. |
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Jerry Fletcher
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: golddigging |
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| Quote: | | A Party that has as its tenets his own political positions, straight out and clearly defined at this point in time. |
The Chumpitarian party.
With all due respect... 
C'mon, he doesn't wanna be president. He want's to retire, which is what he's gonna do after this term.
He's running some sort of scam with his goldbug libertarian austrian economic buddies that bleeds into the conspiracy theory truth movement through the anti government christian patriot right, and the anti government tinfoil hippie left.
Both of these groups traditionally hate paying taxes, but not nearly as much as the free market corporate fascists that sponsor this propaganda circus.
The political 'freedom fringe' are the ones most likely to invest heavily in gold, before the inevitable 'dollar meltdown'. You know, the one that melts down right before 'marshall law' kicks in. Right after we attack Iran and get our microchip.
BTW, Alex Jones is also backed by gold - Genesis communications is run by goldbug Ted Anderson and his gold coin dealership, Midas Resources. Coincidence?
Seen the price of gold recently?
Seen the price of gas?
We caught that Obama feller yet?
President? Four Years? For that money? No way. Running as a republican is insurance against any sort of accidental success.
"If I'd only gotten the nomination, why I woulda changed this country..."
Nah, Ron's just about ready to relax and enjoy the golden years.
| Quote: | Petroleum speculator
There is a strong historical correlation between the price of oil and the price of gold. The general rule is that the price of an ounce of gold is 10 times the price of a barrel of oil.
[15] This is in part because mining gold is an energy intensive process, the cost to mine an ounce of gold will increase as the price of oil increases and in part because they are both commodities and often affected by the same economic stimuli. [16] Buying gold is one way for a speculator to bet on the price of oil going up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_gold_investors |
| Quote: | Oil Trades Near Record After Reaching $100 on Nigerian Unrest
By Christian Schmollinger and Grant Smith
Jan. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil traded near yesterday's record of $100 a barrel on concern that violence in Nigeria may disrupt supply as global demand for commodities climbs.
Nigerian militants killed 12 people in the oil city of Port Harcourt on Jan. 1. Violence has curbed daily output in Africa's biggest oil producer by almost a quarter. Gold surged to a record yesterday as the dollar's slump against major currencies enhanced the appeal of commodities as a hedge against inflation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=a0M6H_sO0nP4&refer=asia
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| Quote: | Gold within striking distance of record
By Chris Flood
Published: December 31 2007 10:00 | Last updated: January 1 2008 13:47
Gold rose to within striking distance of its record high on the last trading day of 2007, helped by safe haven buying prompted by concerns about the deteriorating political situation in Pakistan following the assassination of Benazir Bhutto on Thursday.
[...]
The net long position in crude oil jumped by 51.1 per cent to 52,847 lots in the week to December 24 when WTI reached $94.13 a barrel.
The speculative net long position on gold rose by 8.3 per cent to 184,375 lots while the net long on platinum increased 12.3 per cent.
Plpatinum prices appeared to be finishing the year on a strong note, trading at $1,520 a troy ounce, not far short of the record $1,542 reached last week. The platinum market remains extremely tight with disruptions to supplies being caused by fatalities in South Africa’s mining industry while demand has reached record levels supported by growing consumption in the autocatalyst sector.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/63675688-b784-11dc-96f3-0000779fd2ac.html |
| Quote: | Disadvantages
Beyond the difficulty in transporting, storing, and preventing the debasement of gold, one of the main disadvantages of implementation is that a gold standard would artificially inflate gold's value, increasing the cost of items and industrial processes in which it is used.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard |
| Quote: | First note on your ‘to do” list:
Call Burt Blumert or George Resch at Camino Coin in Burlingame, California.
Mention my name, Stewart Armstrong, or GoldSeek.com for VIP treatment and some of the best prices and absolutely the best service you’ll find anywhere. This is our gift to you. A company founded in 1959 and currently in its 47th year has to be doing something right!
It is also known to some as Ron Paul coins. Yes, the one and the same Ron Paul from the US Congress who has almost single handedly advocated a sound monetary policy for America.
Not many people know this, but it’s true. He’ll most likely return to being involved in the business upon his retirement from Congress.
Ron Paul Coins aka Camino Coins has a wonderful crew including Parker and Cathy and they are honest as the day is long.
This company is the personification of the word integrity, and yes they do ship all over the country. However, as you can imagine, security is extremely tight so best call for an appointment if you plan a visit. They may request references but nothing out of the ordinary. Incidentally, Burt writes for LewRockwell.com and offers humor and insight into some very serious subjects.
Mr. Bert Blumert
Mr. George Resch
Camino Coin
851 Burl Way Rd., Suite 202
Burlingame, CA 94010
Office 1.650.348.3000
Toll Free: 1.800.348.8001
From: The Summer of 2006 - Part I
http://news.goldseek.com/StewartArmstrong/1154530800.php |
| Quote: | Incidentally, I don’t receive a penny for telling you about any of these folks. But if you follow their advice you are going to be a heck of a lot more in tune with the financial / geopolitical environment than my reading some of the major financial newspapers and that may translate into some serious returns on your investments.
Finally, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention Camino Coin in Burlingame, California as a very good coin and metals dealership. I’ve mentioned this before but Ron Paul, is part owner in the business and I for one, am endorsing Dr. Paul and will continue to support him in every way possible.
From: A September to Remember
http://news.goldseek.com/StewartArmstrong/1189622580.php |
| Quote: | Most of the Y2K extremists were genuine in their concerns. The establishment, as usual, has taken this opportunity to savagely attack them. But remember, the media have no affection nor sympathy for you. To them you are aliens who live in "flyover country."
So don't be embarrassed. The elites, in the end, were far more gullible than you.
January 8, 2000
Burton S. Blumert is president of the Camino Coins and Ron Paul Coins in Burlingame, California.
From: In Defense of Y2K Extremists
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/blumert2.html |
| Quote: | TAYLOR: Before we finish our discussion, I understand from reading Richard Maybury's excellent publication that there is a precious metals coin dealership that bears your name. If there is not some law or rule some place that makes it illegal for you to talk about it, could you tell us if this is your business and, if so, how our subscribers might avail themselves of this service?
CONGRESSMAN PAUL: I had a coin dealership with Bert Blumert. It still exists. I have no commercial benefits from it, but I still recommend it because I think he is very trustworthy. If I could remember that number correctly, I would say it.
TAYLOR: I can look it up. I know Richard Maybury has it in his letter. The number for Camino Coin is 800-982-7070.
CONGRESSMAN PAUL: Yes, Richard does put it in there. He has been a friend and he knows the business is run very reputably. I'm not allowed to be involved.
TAYLOR: Okay. For the benefit of our subscribers, here is the number for Ron Paul Coins as published in Richard Maybury's letter, "U.S. & World Early Warning Report." It is 1-800-982-7070.
From: Mar 17, 2006 Congressman Ron Paul Talks About Gold, Oil & the Economy Jay Taylor 321gold . . . Inc |
| Quote: |
[...]
More even than the war, Paul despises paper currency, which he considers a hoax, "fiat money."
He can become emotional talking about it. Caught in traffic in downtown Vegas on the way to an event, Paul looked out the window at the casinos and mused aloud: "Can you imagine when all those slot machines used real silver dollars?
All that silver … " His words trailed off, as in a pleasant daydream.
Paul trusts coins, and he has bought them all his life, first as a childhood collector, then as an investor. During the 1980s, as he ran unsuccessfully for the Senate and the White House, he became involved in a coin business, Ron Paul Coins. Numismatics, he says, is a labor of love. "You only make five or ten dollars a coin. You've got to sell a lot of coins to get rich. I was just promoting something I believe in." It's a rare person who admits something like this.
Everybody knows the gold standard is for cranks. It's complicated, unwieldy, and basically incompatible with the modern world.
Worse, it's boring. Paul doesn't care. "It's been over one hundred years since that issue has been talked about in a presidential election," he told me with apparent pride.
Over dinner at the coffee shop in the Saddle West Hotel, Casino, and RV Resort, Paul and his staff talked about little else.
There were eight or nine of us at the table, with the 72-year-old obstetrician-congressman at the head in a gray suit, working over a chicken platter and discussing hard money. It had the feel of a familiar conversation, a dialogue that doesn't really end but that never diminishes in intensity.
At one point, Paul's assistant checked his BlackBerry for the latest gold and silver prices and read them aloud to the table.
From: Ron Paul Updates - #5 |
http://www.thelangreport.com/?p=225 |
| Quote: | THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2007
FBI Raids L. Ron Paul's Supporters
Apparently the FBI and Secret Service has raided the offices of a company which has been selling "Liberty Dollars" and, more recently, "Ron Paul Dollars" allegedly backed by (or minted in) Gold and Silver.<
Why? Well, this company was minting coins and issuing paper notes claiming to be "dollars" and which, at least in the case of the coins, might easily have been taken by individuals for notes and coins issued by the Mint or the Federal Reserve.
Of course, some will claim that these actions are no different than a company issuing gift cards or the like - as has already been attempted. This is utter nonsense. Companies which issue gift cards and the like don't specifically market them as a replacement for the U.S. dollar.
Neither do they, for that matter, sell them at a discount on a dollar-for-dollar basis and encourage people to make money by putting them into circulation.
Perhaps even more hillariously, given the intended market for these things, it appears that the minted gold, silver, and bronze coins were being told at markups of between 25% and 400% on the actual value of the precious metals contained therein. The only thing worse than a Goldbug is a stupid Goldbug and, apparently, these people were that in droves.
Now, Ron Paul's smarter supporters will attempt to distance themselves from such a disreputable operation. They can try and do that, of course - but, frankly, it will be difficult to with fifty pages of teeth gnashing from L. Ron's supporters about the raid. Moreover, any claim that Ron Paul didn't approve of or support this ought to be viewed skeptically in view of the fact that these people have been marketing these coins using his name and likeness since July at the very earliest.
From: adamyoshida.com: FBI Raids L. Ron Paul's Supporters
http://www.adamyoshida.com/2007/11/fbi-raids-l-ron-pauls-supporters.html |
| Quote: | Ron Paul
Before the U.S. House of Representatives, April 25, 2006
Inflation, as exposed by high gold prices, transfers wealth from the middle class to the rich, as real wages decline while the salaries of CEOs, movie stars, and athletes skyrocket – along with the profits of the military industrial complex, the oil industry, and other special interests.
A sharply rising gold price is a vote of “no confidence” in Congress’ ability to control the budget, the Fed’s ability to control the money supply, and the administration’s ability to bring stability to the Middle East.
Ultimately, the gold price is a measurement of trust in the currency and the politicians who run the country. It’s been that way for a long time, and is not about to change. |
Sure he hates them ter'ists, and their inflations and whatnot, but they just make him so gol durn much money!
http://
Last edited by Jerry Fletcher on Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bri
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2887
Location: Capacious Creek
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Re: golddigging |
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| Jerry Fletcher wrote: |
C'mon, he doesn't wanna be president. He want's to retire, which is what he's gonna do after this term.
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With sweet cash to boot! Goldernit!
Jimminy Crickets! Ya darn tootin. |
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Hocus Locus
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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i hear ALL OF YOU. Respect gratefully recieved.
And I got bri's joke too, like Marilyn Monroe found with a suicide note written on a birthday card.
Am I going boogaloo for Ron Paul? Well in the sense that after some hundred plus years we have some post-school adults reading at least sections of the Constitution for meaning, YES KINDA. Are they working through the road map of "flush the Fed and watch the country turn red?", well NOPE.
Do they want out of Iraq? YES! To the FULLEST EXTENT of the 'Nixon era Viet Nam pullout' degree. The gap between hawk rhetoric and voter sentiment has never been so large... even the spinmasters who orchestrate the distractions in main medias, used to molding a single digit here and there, are running scared.
The thought of losing people to the unmanageable blogosphere gives 'em the willies. No wonder the YouTube debates turn into dog and pony shows edited for time and greatest entertainment value.
On the Internet you can spoof television with a single sentance. Verbally and visually, within the much-reduced realm of 'discourse within bounds' that embodies News:Television these days it, however, lacks the vocabulary to describe the Internet:
| Television, she wrote: | Opening snippet of 12-Oct-2007: RP on PBS Newshour from 'Pac Man' post above
WOODRUFF: You are somewhat of a sensation among young people in this country... you've broken all records for web searches, you're on MySpace, FaceBook, YouTube I guess more than just about any other candidate... with all due respect... [mutual shruggy laughter] 72 years old... how do you explain it?
PAUL: [mutual shruggy laughter] Young ideas. A fantastic idea about individual freedom and allowing people to view what they want and take care of their lives and, 'eyes belong to them', get the government off their backs and offer them low taxes... make sure I never mess around with the Internet... don't tax Internet, don't regulate the Internet... freedom is a very popular idea and young people love it, and they're open ideas, and they like principled answers to our problems. Older people seem to be stereotyped, set in their ways and they're not as 'open'... to the ideas of freedom... [...] |
Ssss...okay... now the color key breakdown (and due respect to those so colorized, when it comes to speaking in cliché I usually ne'er cast the first stone),
"You are old, father William," the young man said,
"And your hair has become very white;
And yet you incessantly stand on your head --
Do you think, at your age, it is right?"
"You are old," said the youth, "and I'm told by my peers
That your lectures bore people to death.
Yet you talk at one hundred conventions per year --
Don't you think that you should save your breath?"
"You are old," said the youth, "and your jaws are too weak
For anything tougher than suet;
Yet you finished the goose, with the bones and the beak --
Pray, how did you manage to do it?"
"I have answered three questions and that is enough,"
Said his father, "Don't give yourself airs!
Do you think I can listen all day to such stuff?
Be off, or I'll kick you downstairs!"
~Lewis Caroll
QUESTION ASKED: How was it done? Why is this happening...?!?
ANSWER: I haven't a clue, I havent a clue.
Ron Paul is running on a cult of personality ticket. His following makes no apologies for that because when you come of age in a environment where everything is party-driven and cult hero-driven and you wake one morning and find a hero who actually has a brain, you rejoice. Presidential campaigns are run on candor and gravitas to a greater extent than depth. And they're discovering that it is easier to get behind someone with a brain.
Their BRAINS it was... that put 'em on the spot.
And I thought brains were good... guess not.
It takes MORE. In order for a flash in the pan to EVOLVE into a MOVEMENT (and not just a neat block party that some remember the following day, some not) there needs to be a PLATFORM. And a platform, unless it is a one-off thing that will be chucked the following year, can only aise from the stated and written tenets of a FULL POLITICAL PARTY.
Without that -- it's all flash in the pan. There's no idea protection from moment to moment to guard against mission creep. There's no protection from a single Magic Bullet. Without a platform foundation to lean against the wall and step back ten paces and study... there isn't even much assurance whether we've reinvented the wheel.
But Internet is reinventing the wheel, by triggering the next stage in self-aware communities that gather through the sharing of information -- rather than television's attempts at PROJECTING sentiment, Plato's Cave revisited. That's why it is happening.
It's not a young old thing or a popularity thing and it is not merely a matter of rediscovering fundamental freedoms either. The finest things ever published in newspapers or spoke on radio or televisiion -- nothing to fear but fear, itself -- still have the power to make the days of our lives. And the consensus machine has escaped the sentiment and geopolitical boundaries ('firewalls' if you will) that have fallen into place in tradition or placed by design, that hamper such freedom of assembly. And it's just happening a little faster is all.
Why is Internet always one full step ahead? It is not just tracking opinion, it promotes accountability.
| Hocus Locus wrote: | HL BFN 14-Mar-2007: Hocus attempts to define Accountability, explains the Internet
[...] There is no shortage of accountability in our world -- or our legal systems. It has just been diluted in term and concept to include anything percieved to be in the public interest. And it is the perception of what public interest is that has been clouded.
"Public interest" and "public opinion" have become synonymous with "popularity" -- to the extent that those discussing either feel no shame or ethical discomfort to use the terms interchangably. And ethos runs rampant: that 'important' polls reflect true public opinion (they cannot, they are anonymous: these people are not being 'pressed', merely 'asked'). That what is 'news' is relevant somehow by definition. Or channel.
[...] At media-crossings there is an open channel. That is why transcripts of spoken word are so important. People -- especially those interviewed on mainstream news channels -- will say things, go places they wouldn't feel comfortable putting into writing. It is why we have court stenographers in our legal chambers: things uttered in a courtroom are sacrosanct, not necessarily for reasons we'd expect. People may lie under oath -- at times with no fear of perjury. People may engage in stonewalls, filibusters and outbursts -- at times without fear of being held in contempt. But I maintain it is the sense that every word is being committed to public record, that has the greatest effect of all.
[...] It is the inquisitiveness of Internet investigators -- those who independently seek to confirm or dismiss the apparent motive -- that have the power to effect change.
Because when they speak, they're quotable -- every one who speaks out. While the unInternet public's perception is cherry-picked or cultivated by crafting leading questions and polling until the results fit.
Those of us who make sense to others are the ones who are accountable -- because we feel pressed on these issues, and we are quotable.
Aliud est celare, aliud tacere.
To conceal is one thing, to be silent another |
The reason I push for a 'Ron Paul Party' is precisely so the man can retire, in good health. God knows 72 years and much of it in the public spotlight is quite enough. And so the young 'uns who are presently "Rah Rah Rah!" surround him can get down to serious business. OR give up and vote Republicrat and go about their own silly business.
HOCUS DISCLAIMER: I am not old... just talk that way sometimes. Hey, I'm single too!
___
By necessity, by proclivity, and by delight, we all quote. In fact, it is as difficult to appropriate the thoughts of others as it is to invent.
~Emerson |
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PatrickSMcNally
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 846
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Forming a political party requires political ideas which people fight over and fight eventually fight for. Very few of the political ideas presented by Paul are such that I could ever endorse, let alone fight for. Restoring the gold standard, dreaming of a return to the 19th century, enacting what he regards as the "real" program of Ronald Reagan, no, there's nothing in there that I would ever cast a vote for. If the Socialist Equality Party puts up candidates this year as they did in 2004 and 2006,
http://www.wsws.org/sections/category/news/cam-2004.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/sections/category/news/us-2006.shtml
then I'll vote for them and continue suggesting to my friends that they take more of a look at the SEP platform:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/nov2006/beck-n04.shtml
People should not feel a need to vote for Paul based upon theories of a possible assassintion. I've seen some people argue that Bush may eventually be hit in the same way that Reagan was shot at under odd circumstances, and Gerald 'Warren Commission' Ford also had a strange incident. Does that mean people should have been voting for each of them? I think not. I'm skeptical about the "Paul out of control" scenario, but can't rule out a possible assassination of Paul anymore than I can a possible assassination of Bush. But building a party needs more than that.
Last edited by PatrickSMcNally on Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dilbert_g
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Let it be said, I am prepared to believe that Ron Paul believes in what he promotes. On the other hand, I believe that he probably knows what kind of "Liberty" he's pushing for. Not the kind you think.
FURTHER:
| Quote: | http://web.archive.org/web/20040806082029/home.att.net/~Resurgence/L-ausmain.htm
Myth: The Austrian School of Economics is "apart and above" mainstream economics.
Fact: The Austrian School is a classic example of crank science.
Summary
The Austrian School of Economics is a tiny group of libertarians at war with mainstream economics. They reject even the scientific method that mainstream economists use, preferring to use instead a pre-scientific approach that shuns real-world data and is based purely on logical assumptions. (You have to read or hear Mises and Rothbard and compare to this website or other real-world economists (even Krugman) to really appreciate the weighted assumptions that democratic govt is bad and self-regulating business is both good and honest, and that the 'Religion of the Invisible Hand' is the Only True Economic Religion.For chrissakes, Ron Paul's philosophical forbears want to privatize COPS, COURTS, and LEGISLATURE. Then everyone just buys however much justice they can afford. If you're BigCorp, you buy a lot. John Doe, you get the discount model. This is Newt Gingrich and Grover Norquist on steroids.) But this is the very method that thousands of religions use when they argue their opposing beliefs, and the fact that the world has thousands of religions proves the fallibility of this approach. Academia has generally ignored the Austrian School, and the only reason it continues to exist is because it is financed by wealthy business donors on the far right. The movement does not exist on its own scholarly merits.
Argument
To describe and critique an entire school of economic thought in one short essay is impossible. Therefore, we'll do it in several short essays.
Introduction
The Scientific Method
Statistics
Methodological Subjectivism
Methodological Individualism
Starting Assumptions
The Market Process
Monopolies
The Gold Standard and Business Cycle
The History of the Austrian School
The Politics of the Austrian School |
Joe Stiglitz is arguing against Economics which doesn't use DATA, or which ignores DATA, i.e. real world information on how people and businesses are affected by economic trends. He says they have better computer models now which are better at figuring out stuff from DATA than in the past. The DATA proves FM Libertarians are wrong! Not only wrong, but liars and shills for corporatism.
For further reference, look up "William Volker - What an Asshole" on this site or others.
Regardless if it was published by populistindependent.org which may be slightly too commie, it shows how in an era of rising grassroots Labor activism and social and economic expectations, such as for Liberty at work and Prosperity in Paychecks, wealthy businessmen decided they needed their own philosophy to counter Labor. So they bought one.
Their conclusion was that
a) Free markets work best when left alone
b) Govt intervention ruins things
c) Private property (theirs) is sacrosanct
d) Gold is best
Having developed their conclusion, all they needed was the filler, the logical arguments to back up their conclusions.  Presto, a few zillion dollar donations to Volker's tax-free Foundation and Libertarianism was born.
Corporations can seize as much liberty as governments. Corporations used to hire their own private vigilante squads. Blackwater is a private company. So is ISI, Instinctive Shooting International, the Israeli company that helped police New Orleans and shoot fleet-footed black looters of baby diapers. (My point is, looters of survival goods like food and water were treated the same as armed robbers and people looting high-tech equipment to sell for crack, after the govt intentionally created conditions which made looting a necessity.)
This is Ron Paul's BASE. BIG TIME. Corporatists.
In another Ron Paul interview, he described being against VIOLENCE and then went on to describe "violence" in classic Libertarian terms: Taxes. Collecting Taxes on govt-sanctioned-and-created-and-protected multi-national corporations is a VIOLENT ACT. I kid you not. Actually, it was a libertarian who pointed it out, on Free Republic no less, that the reason America has Big Govt is because of Big Corporations. The only part they want to shrink is the Human side of things.
The scary part is that Ron Paul and Ronald Reagan and all the "free market" hoopla that dominates what passes for Economics in America is the brainchild of one William Volker and his hired hacks, Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek. Also Sam Bush and the Ohio Assoc of Manufg, and the NAM.
Propagandists. See Alex Carey CORPORATIONS AND PROPAGANDA The Attack on Democracy. Fascist coup d'etat in America. Woo hoo. google actually found this in my own website
Also Milton Freidman and Augusto Pinochet.
Ron Paul's hero, Friedrich Hayek, was the economist who went into straighten things up after Allende was executed along with several thousand of his countrymen and suspected supporters. This includes, from what I've heard, left-leaning and Keynesian economists who were disappeared. Hayek said that "free markets plus fascism is better than no free markets".
That says enough for me. But while Ron Paul downplays this for his TV appearances, when he's talking to his base supporters (that speech on this thread), he lets loose with that to a greater extent.
END WELFARE. EAT the POOR.
GIVE GOVT THE POWER TO CRIMINALIZE ABORTION, and allow BIG GOVT to consider the VAGINA and UTERUS to be STATE-CONTROLLED PROPERTY.
LEGISLATE A PHONY ECONOMIC AGENDA, based on smoke, mirrors, and hype.
If unregulated free markets worked perfectly, Franklin Delano Roosevelt would never have been elected (4 times!!) and the New Deal would never have been put in place because it never would have been needed. Massive bank failures due to rampant unregulated speculation would not have happened. It was due to people sleeping in public parks that the New Deal happened, including the Glass-Stegal Act which blocked commercial banks for the public from gambling on inflation-causing speculation, backed by taxpayers via the FDIC. The FDIC is what got banks rolling again, as opposed to "mattress-money", so taxpayers were on the hook, but banks were put on a leash. Gradually, they removed the leash, while keeping taxpayers on the hook.
FDR and much-hated Liberalism happened for a reason! That reason was the upper class fear that radical grassroots populist socialism would catch fire, in their ongoing War on Labor. Actually, it already caught fire, along with some of their property. They were trying to put the fire out, and keep it out.
Ron Paul's big success is based on an extreme ignorance of history. They have succeeded in destroying even the IDEAS of Liberalism and erasing the facts about how Modern Liberalism arose, the necessity of govt to 'interfere' with the economy. (The problem is, govt is now interfering on behalf of Big Business and banking, rather than on behalf of the general public. The solution is more democracy, not more corporatism.)
I don't like the smears and slurs about what Ron Paul may or may not have said about black people. Not sure if they stick, just inflammatory, and mostly there is nothing educational about those slurs. Such attacks say Ron Paul's ideas may be wonderful, except for the fact he doesn't like black people. Such slurs don't TEACH Americans anything, they are empty of content.
Besides, what's the matter with saying that black criminals are fleet-footed? Maybe it's a compliment on their athletic prowess. 
Another "birds of a feather" point to make is about Gary North and Rushdoony. Google their names with the word "Stoning" and then with "Ron Paul". They support THEOCRACY. Not to say RP supports theocracy, but that is far too close for comfort. George Washington and T. Jefferson were constitutionalists, but not for theocracy.
As a matter of fact, all 1930's fascist movements in America always waved the flag and touted Christianity, Patriotism, and the Constitution. It was both ultra-nationalist and against America. They HATED America --- as America is and was. What they liked was their peculiar IDEAL of America.
Obviously, GUNS on PLANES would not have stopped 9-11. That's pandering as much as Rudi. With over a dozen FBI agents and military officers who have stated in the public record that they were OBSTRUCTED and THWARTED and even YELLED AT when ORDERED to STOP trying investigate and arrest suspected terrorists before Sept 11 -- or what appeared to them to be terrorists planning an attack -- LIHOP is a no-brainer.
There's dozens of other rock-solid points which are indisputable and which require little political courage to talk about. Could they accuse any candidate of "hating America" for citing 12 former FBI agents (even if those agents cited mostly internal bickering and politicking, rather than LIHOP)??
Ron Paul uses Liberty and Small Govt as mostly buzzwords. Everyone likes Liberty. But for whom? It is a very seductive use of language. He's a brainy Ronald Reagan. Ron Paul's once-hero, Reagan liked freedom so much he called for a "BLOODBATH" (literally) of students in California. |
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dilbert_g
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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At first I didn't know that Ron Paul and Lehrman co-wrote that book.
Then I did not know if New American Century just posted his article from the Weekly Standard, or if Lehrman was truly a member.
Here's what I found on trusty, reliable no-frills no-tinfoil Rightweb:
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1263
Lewis Lehrman
Project for the New American Century: Board of Directors
Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History: Co-Chairman
Lehrman is a former drugstore executive turned conservative economic theorist turned Heritage Foundation big wig. (Heritage backed the Islamic Radical "freedom fighters" we now have to fight for survival. So did Ronald Reagan.) He helped found Citizens for America, which was formed in 1983 by various conservative heavy hitters such as Holly Coors (the wife of Joseph Coors) to promote conservative causes. According to GroupWatch, CFA “worked closely with Oliver North in North's Contra supply efforts,” organizing briefings by Contra speakers that targeted congressional offices and encouraged congressional members to vote Contra aid. CFA was also the principal U.S. sponsor for a 1985 meeting of anticommunist ‘freedom fighters’ held in Angola. This conference produced at least three memoranda -- one from speechwriter Dana Rohrabacher (another heavy Taliban lover, see below) to White House communications director Patrick Buchanan, one from Buchanan to National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane (arranged arms shipments to Iran while Carter was still President), and one from National Security Council staffer Walter Raymond to McFarlane. The memos discussed whether the president should send a personal message to the Angola meeting via Lehrman and whether Rohrabacher should attend the meeting. The conference was considered instrumental in pressuring the Reagan administration to authorize a $15 million aid package for UNITA in 1986. The conference also exerted pressure on the U.S. Congress and public to support the Nicaraguan Contras and the guerrillas in Afghanistan.”
| Quote: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Rohrabacher#Involvement_with_Afghanistan_and_the_Taliban
Rohrabacher had a history of involvement in Afghanistan dating back to the Cold War, when he openly supported the groups that were fighting troops from the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
In late 1988, Rohrabacher went to Afghanistan:
After I left the White House and was elected to Congress, but before I was sworn into Congress, I knew I had that two months between November and January to do things that I could never do once I was elected to Congress. I chose to hike into Afghanistan as part of a small Mujahedin unit and to engage in a battle against the Russian and communist forces near and around the city of Jalalabad.
In the November/December 1996 issue of Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, Rohrabacher was reported as saying that the Taliban were not terrorists or revolutionaries, that they would develop a disciplined society that would leave no room for terrorists, and that the Taliban posed no threat to the United States.
During the summer of 2001, Rohrabacher made a trip to Qatar that was paid for by the Islamic Institute and the Government of Qatar, according to Rohrabacher’s financial disclosure forms. While in Qatar, Rohrabacher, Grover Norquist, and Khaled Saffuri met with Taliban Foreign Minister Mullah Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil. Wakil reportedly asked for help in increasing the amount of foreign aid sent by the United States to Afghanistan, apparently in exchange for U.S. oil company UNOCAL being allowed to construct of an oil pipeline through Afghanistan. If Rohrabacher was conducting diplomacy, he was in violation of the Logan Act, which prohibits citizens from doing so if not in an official capacity.
Rohrabacher told wire service reporters who were present in Doha, Qatar at the time that he had discussed a “peace plan” with the Taliban. But Norquist, a close associate of Rohrabacher, said that the meeting happened accidentally and that it included Rohrabacher yelling at them about blowing up the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan.
Rohrabacher’s staff would not answer questions about the Taliban talks. (really?!)
After the September 11, 2001 attacks, Rohrabacher claimed that the attacks were due to incompetence on the part of the Clinton administration.
Defense of Extraordinary Rendition and Torture
On April 17, 2007, while defending the Bush Administration's program of extraordinary rendition during a House hearing on transatlantic relations, Rohrabacher stated that the unfair treatment of one innocent suspect is an acceptable "unfortunate consequence" of holding others who would otherwise be free to commit terror acts. After receiving boos and groans from the gallery, Rohrabacher responded, "Well I hope it's your families, I hope it's your families that suffer the consequences." |
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