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Tom



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, towards the end Griffin at least strongly implies, that 9-11 was an inside job (compares it to other "teaching events" from the viewpoint of the NWO-bringers like Golf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, Lucitania...)

so what do we have? At least some sources on point 4. , but rather slim pickings, a lot of Wiki, and not many second sources.
For today, that's it for me. The rest of the research and analysis another time.

By the way: just downloaded and screened the Alex Jones Show on the 16 October 2007 with AJ substitute Bob Dasey (?) (Simple Truth) interviewing JBS-President John McManus about the history of JBS and so on. http://www.btmon.com/Audio/Other/The_Alex_Jones_Show_-_Alex_Jones_-_16_Oct_2007_-_MP3.torrent.html
Latina Ass Pop-up allert Wink

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,
I am no longer a subscriber to Infowars/Prisonplanet, so I have no access to old archives.

I have some on my FTP here
ftp://takeoverworld.dyndns.info/
Look on the Poli_MP3 section and also Political_MPEG.

I don't know on which talk Jones claimed his father was JBS, as I did not listen daily. I might have heard that from a friend who listens to Jones religiously, or did. My friend calls himself a communist and visited the USSR some time, I think in the 80's. So he vehemently disagrees with Jones on key points, but he agrees with exposing 9-11. I had a hard time convincing him (and probably still have not) that Jones is a shill. He likes what Jones exposes, but he cannot grasp the WINGNUT IMPRESSION Jones makes with most people, with his gratuitous gay-bashing bullcrap (though he claims to be not anti-gay person, like most Christians).

In any case, Jones ideology is basically a rubber stamp of the JBS outlook. There have been a number of orgs like that floating around, forming, breaking, intermingling.

I posted this link on the history of fascism and Nazi-ism in America.
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/53-index.html
NOT some Aryan Race cult offshoot, but mainstream wealthy businessmen and intellectuals.
It's a difficult site to navigate, sometimes you need to delete something in the address bar to go up a level.
When you click on Behind the Scenes, you get frames and a sidebar.
Here is a list on the sidebar. I'll bold the organizational names and a few famous names. Their relationship with and support for Nazi-ism ranged from overt to more covert support for the ideas of Nazi-ism.

American Legion
Association Against the Prohibition Amendment
wanted to overturn prohibition, but main reason was backing by people interested in licquor sales, Sanders is not promoting "dry"
Sewell Avery
Thomas L. Chadbourne
Chamber of Commerce
Christian America

Albert Christmas
Dr. Samuel H. Church
Robert S. Clark
William L. Clayton
Committee for a Sound Dollar and Sound Currency
Crusaders

Bill Doyle
The Dupont family
Alfred W. Erickson
Walter E. Frew
Albert W. Hawkes
William R. Hearst
Howard Heinz
E.F. Hutton
William S. Knudsen
Douglas MacArthur
Hanford MacNider
Gerald MacGuire
Andrew W. Mellon
Nathan L. Miller
George M. Moffett
J.P. Morgan
Grayson M.-P. Murphy
National Association of Manufacturers
Order of '76
Pitcairn family
J. Howard Pew Sunoco, Pew Charitible Trusts
John L. Pratt
Joseph M. Proskauer
John J. Raskob
David A. Reed
Hal Roach
Rockefeller Associates
Pauline Sabin
Jouett Shouse
Alfred P. Sloan, Jr GM
Alfred Smith
Sentinels of the Republic
Southern Committee to Uphold the Constitution
William H. Stayton
James W. Wadsworth, Jr
Ernest T. Weir
Joseph E. Widener
William Woodward Sr

Spivak, who Patrick O'Malley critiqued on another page, pointed out that these pro-fascist groups never failed to promote a message which centered on Patriotism, Family, God, Christ, and the Constitution. Sound familiar?

This is NOT to say that Patriotism, Family, God, Christ, and the Constitution are WRONG, of course. It's about the language and the carefully scripted messages, and how these ideas are hijacked to promote Arrogant Nationalism, Xenophobia, Racism, and most of all, protection of Property Rights (of the elite who own all the property) above all else. That means, if a business chooses to not hire people of a certain race or religion or sex, govt should not interfere. It means if a business chooses to dump waste on it's neighbors, govt should not interfere with regulations, (except perhaps to allow humans to hire lawyers --- individually, not collectively, not class action --- and sue in court -- but only for damages, you cannot sue for future damages which will statistically occur from living in a toxic dump, and you must prove that any damages which have occurred were caused by the Defendant, i.e. you must "sources" your cancer. Otherwise how can you say that a million pounds of PCBs dumped in the lake caused your cancer. Maybe it was a Hot Dog you ate or some second-hand smoke at the bar.

It's like how Grover Norquist's "Americans for Tax Reform" group or whatever he calls it really proposes a world where Corporations are Tax-Free. If you think about that, that means that all Capital Gains are tax-free, while ALL the taxes get paid by .... Laborers and employees. If they don't want to pay high taxes, cut services, or "privatize" them, so that some Corporation can pick up the service and start charging exhorbitant fees for what used to be "free".

That's my generic anti-Libertarian rant. Jones regularly has radio and tv guests from this milleau. Check it out.

I'm not against guns. I think gun control is a bad idea, esp. with fascists in charge. Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America is one of Jones buddies. Larry Pratt assisted the CIA with pacification of the farmers in Guatemala, and other "anti-communist" CIA operations in Latin America. So did Pat Robertson.

Listen to Dr. Cuddy. He sounds weirder than Falwell and Robertson, albeit not a White House shill.

Jones comes out with a lot of reasonable stuff, then stuff like this:
Quote:
Occult Symbolism In The Western Hemisphere
In this exclusive video for Prison Planet.tv members, Alex Jones, followed by a Russian film crew, travels to England, Canada and tours his own home city of Austin Texas, and brings to light startling examples of how the Illuminati's hidden codes of communication are littered everywhere, so long as you know how to look.

I mean, give me a friggin break.

I also posted something on this forum before on Jones' hero Fritz Springmeier, convicted of bank robbery and a related bombing. When this Christian was arrested out on some farm where he was allegedly selling marijuana to finance himself, police found a huge arsenal of weapons, like enough to start one of those aryan-style race wars against ZOG or something.

Jones himself seems moderately right-of-center at times, other times right wing extremist, then he brings on this really scary people and lends them his acquired air of legitimacy.

I'd like to see his talk at the First Unitarian Universalist Church of Austin, because that is an interesting dichotomy, but I'm not willing to subscribe to watch that.
It seems to be here
http://www.leechvideo.com/video/view2316835.html

Actually, Tom, the opening by this minister covers your question. He quotes a JFK researcher saying that once he understood what JFK was about, it did not matter how, he knew he paid for the bullets. Ditto for 9-11. He said it much more eloquently.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,
The MySpace website you posted (could you condense/shrink/bury the link using the LINK icon above? it has to say [url=fuseaction...]LINKED WORDS [/url] )
I read that and it referred to the usual "the Jews did it" banter, and bashes Jones for not going after Zionists.

I mentioned my recent revelation to my own understanding (see other post, Zionism NOT Jewish) that Lord Balfour and Lloyd George were Christian-Zionists who were operating around the time of perhaps Theodore Herzl, but before Chaim Weitzman, i.e. before the bulk of Jewish political Zionism took hold (many Jews resisting it), AND that their real GOAL was to "rig" Revelations and Armageddon into coming down soon. They saw these Aliyah Jews (Jews who wanted to return to Palestine and create a National Home/State) as a gift to the Christians from God, in other words, the Jews would be the tools to bring Jesus back and the fulfillment of Biblical prophesy if only they forced history by transferring Palestine to the Jews and pushing the Arab Muslims and Christians out, and creating conditions for war. I understand now that these mean, evil, nasty, deluded religionists (percursors of people like John Hagee and Pat Robertson) were Zionists in their own right.

Not that Zionist Jews did not of course participate or even lead the way in some areas, but now I understand what Weitzman talked about with Balfour that tickled Balfour so much, and now I understand how and more importantly WHY a tiny minority of persecuted European Jews got so much support from the heads of British Govt and Royalty. Basically, everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die, and moreso, people in power are willing to arrange mass murder and robbery of other people to (ironically) delude themselves that they are securing their own spiritual salvation, rather than their own personal Hell.

I learned about the Christian-Zionist named Francis Brooks who was the handler for Ahmed Chalabi's efforts to seize control of Iraq (I guess they gave him the Oil Ministry, not the more visible presidency). A lot of what Brooks did was get Chalabi to offer concessions and perks to Israel, like re-opening a pipeline to Haifa, to gain their support for a US war. Brooks spoke of black and white, good and evil, absolutes, and his willingness to slaughter EVERY Iraqi person if that's what it takes, to do God's will and get rid of Saddam. He said, "they'll go to heaven anyhow", so it doesn't matter. It astonishes me how these people THINK, and how the justify mass murder. It makes Charlie Manson's Helter-Skelter plan seem sort of normal.

So in that sense, I understand this rant on MySpace about "Zionism" being the cause of many of these things, but it was not the same Zionism I thought it was. In this sense, YES, the John Birch Society and it's ties to the Christian Right makes perfect sense as being a Zionist source behind events which cause so much confusion.

I mostly know the JBS as being sort of a gentlemanly form of pro-fascism and more importantly a wellspring of anti-communist hysteria, as well as becoming sort of ridiculous themselves to the broader society, especially after they called Eisenhower a commie. Ike may have been a lot of things, he may have lacked their fanaticism about the Cold War/Hot War and their perceived NEED to nuke the USSR, but he was far from a communist.

Jones, maybe he does not completely echo every single JBS meme, and some of them have differed and changed throughout the years too, but Jones is to me like an outsourced mouthpiece for JBS principles and ideas, with a smattering of other Christian Right confusion. I support him on his defense of the Iraqi people against the New World Order (the corporate NWO according to Thomas P.M. Barnett), but the mindspace and background and foundation where he comes from to make these assertions is very cock-eyed, in large part because he -- like many libertarians -- ignores the ability of concentrated corporate capitalist money to exercise POWER, to force their will and to buy the outcomes they want, outside of the official political structure. Libertarian Lassez-faire is not going to do anything to mitigate that power structure. On the contrary, most likely it will unleash that power which is somewhat mitigated by Law at the moment (where it has not purchased the Law and the Lawmakers and Judges), resembling the changes of post-Yeltsin Russia and other Third World capitalist hellholes.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_Birch_Society
Quote:
Welch saw "collectivism" as the main threat to western civilization, and liberals as secret communist traitors who provide the cover for the gradual process of collectivism, with the ultimate goal of replacing the nations of western civilization with one-world socialist government. "There are many stages of welfarism, socialism, and collectivism in general," he wrote, "but communism is the ultimate state of them all, and they all lead inevitably in that direction."
(i.e. democracy is the road to communism)
Quote:
In October 1964, the Idaho Statesman newspaper expressed concern about what it called an "ominous" increase in JBS-led "ultra right" radio and television broadcasts, which it said then numbered 7,000 weekly and cost an estimated $10 million annually. "By virtue of saturation tactics used, radical, reactionary propaganda is producing an impact even on large numbers of people who, themselves, are in no sense extremists or sympathetic to extremists views," declared a Statesman editorial. "When day after day they hear distortions of fact and sinister charges against persons or groups, often emanating from organizations with conspicuously respectable sounding names, it is no wonder that the result is: Confusion on some important public issues; stimulation of latent prejudices; creation of suspicion, fear and mistrust in relation not only to their representatives in government, but even in relation to their neighbors."

The Statesman article went on to charge "that there are many local communities in which the tactics of the extremists have made life miserable for good citizens . . . through spying, nocturnal phone calls, economic and social pressures, stoning, even bombings, and other tactics alien to the American way of working out political decisions. An unchecked increase in this kind of propaganda is degrading the American political dialogue to such a point as to damage our self-respect at home and our reputation for public responsibility abroad. These radical, reactionary positions are undermining American Democracy."


Bob Dylan: Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues

http://watch.pair.com/jbs-cnp.html

JBS article positive on 9-11 truth
http://www.jbs.org/node/2200

Quite a few, actually.

Tom,
Like you, a search of Google cannot find any negative articles on Alex Jones or on 9-11 truth on the JBS.org or thenewamerican.com website. I don't know where or why Jones said that McManus was bashing him. Maybe this "split" was fictional all along.
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Tom



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx dilbert for a lo- Oot info,
it will take time to digest it all,

For now I will try to stay the course with your text as a showcase how I think documentation of sources might look like.
For now this is very much work in progress and I plan to "clean it up" for easier reading at the end - still not decided on footnotes or highlited links...seems you prefer the later.
About the "Anti-Zionist" - source: I just mentioned it, because via this source I found this page claiming that AJ is a RSICC - what ever that is, I did not go into that yesterday - but supposedly a link to the JBS.
Any suggestion on the slick BBC - Story?
In my opinion a great start for a research project would be Suttons "Wall Street and the rise of Hitler" since it seems Sutton shows its sources and
I guess this would be also interessting for dilbert...
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/index.html
Anyway, back to work...

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Tom



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert, this link ain't working
ftp://takeoverworld.dyndns.info/

Had the idea to search monster torrent again, but the audio files go back only to sept 2006

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Tom



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot about the CIA FAKES for a while (what a sweet time it was)
Tell me again, what is the proof for JBS being CIA? Except of talking shit sometimes?
An interesting case for me is this movie by JBS:
The UN Deception:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=2634703139474212867&q=un+deception&total=64&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
At the beginning they develop a totally different narative about what happened with Lumumba, Congo and Katanga (go figure, Lumumba being a "commie" and stuff).
See, because here I had thought that Katanga was rich in diamonds and with the help of belgian "Blackwater" and DeBeers it just stayed in Belgian hands. When Eisenhower would not sell planes for troop-movement to Lumumba, but the sowjets did, he was "done"
part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4daHG3I3ePU

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Tom



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert are you talking about this?
http://www.takeoverworld.info/audiolinks.html

IGNORE THE FOLLOWING - TEST
Let me try something:
[url]Link[/url]
http://www.takeoverworld.info/audiolinks.html

http://www.takeoverworld.info/audiolinks.html

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Tom



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn
[url=fuseaction...]Damn[/url]
[url]Damn[/url]

Is your Link-option working properly? My seems not to work or I do not know how it works...should I not mark the word and then go on the Link-icon? How do I insert the URL-code?

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Tom



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry everybody, my wife is giving me the evil eye Wink

I would have posted a cleaned-up version of dilberts text, with highlighted word with links to sources, antiwar.com-style - as a showcase.
But I do seem to have "technical" - problems...I worked once with typo3, so I think I know how it should work.

I do not and I never claimed that this is THE ANSWER, but at least I would find it much easier to get into a discussion being able to check the facts without googleing and searching for the needle in the hay every time.

Sorry, if this quick knee-jerk "demonstration" was not very convincing - I guess I will have to try another time again. For now I am out of time, everyday problems are waiting to be solved...actually the last couple of days I kind of ingnored them, but that works only so long - you know what I am talking about.

OK, won't be around for a while

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SidVicious



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farewell, Tom. We hardly knew thee.
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
I forgot about the CIA FAKES for a while (what a sweet time it was)
Tell me again, what is the proof for JBS being CIA? Except of talking shit sometimes?


Western Goals, Inc. Spied on Americans, collected dossiers for the CIA, FBI, NSA, and private companies.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
dilbert are you talking about this?
http://www.takeoverworld.info/audiolinks.html


This is part of my Website. You might check
http://www.Takeoverworld.info/vid.html instead, though neither are 100% up to date with every file.

However, I also linked to my FTP.
Last i checked, it worked from a remote location.
ftp://takeoverworld.dyndns.info/
I cannot check it externally from an internal address due to Router, but the server is UP. I'd have to VNC to a remote and then try to get back in. The firewall should permit it. Are you using PASSIVE? Are you using an FTP client? Filezilla Client is free. You might have to change something in IE settings to use a PASSIVE connection if YOU are beh. a firewall/router, as I am, but I forget what that was. Microsoft or something on Google will say. Passive FTP Internet Explorer. Something under Tools, I think, or Folder Options in Windows Explorer.

People from Europe and from Shanghai and Hong Kong keep trying to hammer it and log in using the Admin username and thinking up a password. There is no Admin.
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