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Beating AIDS denialism
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Jeroen



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

puffdaddy wrote:
This guy was gay. No history of drug abuse at all. He was my neighbor too. He was healthy and then began to have fungal infections and weight loss.

Did he do an hiv-test because of his illness, or had he already tested positive? In the latter case, the fear of death will no doubt have contributed to his illness. And perhaps he did use poppers, a drug almost exclusively used by gays. Also, gays often suffer from repeated fungal and amoebal infections of the lower intestine ("gay bowel"), which was recognized prior to AIDS. And please remember that inability to find a convincing alternative cause doesn't mean that hiv is the culprit.
puffdaddy wrote:
His viral "load" was huge and his white blood cell count was almost gone.

That doesn't really mean much.
puffdaddy wrote:
guess the New England Journal of Medicine is in on the "AIDS conspiracy" too or maybe it isnt "Peer Reviewed"

Every jounal depends on its advertisers. Therefore, journals are unlikely to publish anything that might hurt Big Pharma.
puffdaddy wrote:
Definition of Koch's postulates.

Don't know why you're giving this definition, but hiv doesn't meet these postulates--in fact, it doesn't even exist.
puffdaddy wrote:
I initiated AZT and some other pharmaceutical cocktail that was being used at the time (I can't remember exactly) but after that his health improved dramatically and his viral load was so low it couldn't be calculated.

AZT kills microbes before it kills the patient. There may also be a strong psychological effect.
puffdaddy wrote:
The year was 1997 or 1998. Went into Emergency Room medicine about 5 years ago.

Good choice. I don't think it's entirely coincidental that a leading aids-dissident is an emergency doctor as well--no problems with the mirror image..
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puffdaddy



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 506
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Beating AIDS denialism Reply with quote

I have read the AIDS/HIV conspiracy stuff and it seems too farfetched. There were other Aids patients I have managed too. Their Viral loads were high AND they presented with the classic symptoms Treated them with the meds and not only did they improve but their viral counts dropped. There was marked improvement of symptoms and simultaneous drop in viral counts. Maybe the studies are all bullshit??
One can read and choose to believe whatever they want no matter who the authors are or what the motive behind the articles are or what the subject matter is. It sure seems like there is a virus causing AIDS. It is very difficult for me accept that this patient's Immune system just spontaneously disentegrated. He was against drugs. He drank quite a bit and he never seemed malnourished to me. OH....he did the HIV test because he was losing weight and had oral thrush.

What is the ONE THING that has led others to believe that there is something other than a virus causing AIDS? What is the one thing besides Big Pharma being involved that makes you think otherwise? Why is it that 99% of the physicians out there believe in the Virus causing the illness and not others? Why do the antivirals seem to work?

If everybody believed the same things, then I guess we would be at the Fox News Forum with Sean Hannity and Colmes as our moderators.
Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Toto



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to examine how the mind and belief effects our health. AIDS medicine is really modern day voodoo.


Primitive peoples, in their inherent wisdom, would recognize a hex when they saw one, and would have prescribed methods to deal with such things, perhaps through healing rituals performed by a shaman, a witch doctor, a medicine man, or an exorcist. Our culture, however, is far too civilized, educated, and sophisticated to believe in the casting of spells, and when we are all hexed by the AIDS industry's hoax, we are helpless to act because we have no remedies in place to deal with such phenomena.

- George N. Hazlehurst, AIDS as Information Disease

http://healtoronto.com/cult.html

Cheers TOTO! Wink
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puffdaddy



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 506
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Beating AIDS denialism Reply with quote

My life's work is bullshit I chant! Now....where is that incense? Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Jeroen



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

puffdaddy wrote:
I have read the AIDS/HIV conspiracy stuff and it seems too farfetched. There were other Aids patients I have managed too. Their Viral loads were high AND they presented with the classic symptoms Treated them with the meds and not only did they improve but their viral counts dropped. There was marked improvement of symptoms and simultaneous drop in viral counts. Maybe the studies are all bullshit??

Kary Mullis who received a nobel prize for discovering the principle behind the viral load test is an aids dissident. You seem to have missed that not just "conspiracy stuff" has been produced, but several articles have appeared in the medical literature as well.
puffdaddy wrote:
What is the ONE THING that has led others to believe that there is something other than a virus causing AIDS? What is the one thing besides Big Pharma being involved that makes you think otherwise?

Why the one thing? The virus theory is superfluous and preposterous for many reasons.
puffdaddy wrote:
Why is it that 99% of the physicians out there believe in the Virus causing the illness and not others? Why do the antivirals seem to work?

As for doctors, you should know, because you are one yourself. Doctors believe what they are told by the proper authorities (or at least they act as if they do). I already wrote that antiretrovirals work because they kill microbes. Why don't you try studying the science behind hiv/aids yourself? This publication is supposed to document the discovery of hiv. Here you find some useful comments about the article and about an interview with one of the authors. An excellent publication in Nature/biotechnology from the commentator can be found here.
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Cyn



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All AIDS cases can be explained by factors other than infection with HIV.




Quote:
My extensive review of the medical literature has not led me to a single individual with AIDS that was caused by HIV, nor a single person with AIDS who was cured by the treatment with the antiviral agents (AZT and protease inhibitors). On the contrary, epidemiology and pathology of AIDS worldwide show that agents and factors other than HIV are responsible for causing the AIDS epidemic [1-6]. My findings include:

1) The appearance of AIDS in the USA and Europe coincided with the introduction of crack cocaine, the use of alkyl nitrites by homosexuals to enhance anal sex, and the approval of glucocorticoid aerosol use to treat inflammation of respiratory systems in 1976.

2) AIDS in drug users and homosexuals in the USA and in Europe results from heavy ancillary use of glucocorticoids and other immunosuppressive agents. Physicians prescribe these drugs to treat a wide range of chronic illnesses of the respiratory and gastrointestinal systems, and other organs.

3) AIDS in hemophiliacs relates to the use of corticosteroids and other immunosuppressive agents to prevent the development of antibodies for factors VIII and IX, and used to treat other chronic illnesses such as joint disease.

4) AIDS in people receiving blood and/or tissue follows use of glucocorticoids to prevent transfusion and tissue rejection, and to treat other illnesses.

5) AIDS in infants and children is caused by their exposure to drugs and corticosteroids in utero, and to corticosteroids used after birth to treat their chronic illnesses.

6) AIDS in Africa results from malnutrition, the consequent release of endogenous cortisol, and opportunistic diseases. Atrophy in the thymus and lymphoid tissue in people suffering from malnutrition has been known since 1925; malnutrition also impairs T cells functions. Feeding an adequate diet reverses these changes. It cures AIDS! Thymus size in malnourished children increased from 20% of normal to 107% of normal, after nine weeks of feeding.

7) Kaposi's sarcoma (KS) and lymphoma result from the use of steroids and drugs, and the release of endogenous cortisol. They are not caused by a slow virus. Stopping treatment with immunosuppressive agents prior to metastasis reverses KS in some cases.

Cool The medications currently used to treat patients with AIDS, such as AZT, protease inhibitors, and glucocorticoids are highly toxic. They can cause AIDS in asymptomatic patients; they worsen the condition of AIDS patients and even lead to their death. These drugs have no therapeutic value; their use should stop forthwith.

9) Damage to the immune system is rapidly reversible after removal of the true insulting agent or treatment of the factual causes. Examples: a) The CD4+ T cells of 1,075 HIV-positive pregnant women increased from 426/uL to 596/uL in six months on a balanced diet. This also improved the outcome of their pregnancies; and b) In HIV-positive homosexuals, stopping treatment with glucocorticoids reversed a fall in CD4+ T cells.


More at the British Medical Journal:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/327/7427/1306-c
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puffdaddy



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 506
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Beating AIDS denialism Reply with quote

I have already studied the science behind HIV/AIDS and the pharmacology behind how the meds work. Ad Nauseum (I accept that I may have been lied to)

Jimmy Carter was awarded a Nobel Prize.
Billy Carter wasn't.

I have not seen anything in any of the usual medical journals indicating that the current thinking about the pathophysiology behind HIV/AIDS has changed to include a non-viral etiology.

Now excuse me while I meditate, chant, burn incense and dance next to my crystals and bullshitometer......
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Cyn



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Nobel prizes, Kary B. Mullis received one in 1993 for inventing the PCR test, a test which he, by the way, says should not be used to determine viral load. Because the test is designed to amplify genetic material, you cannot rely on any supposed "count" of that amplified material.


Quotes from "The Other Side of AIDS":


ROBERT DA PRATO: Dr. Kary Mullis who invented the polymerase chain
reaction gives this -- in '83, I believe, and he got the noble prize in 1993 -- gives
this little story that he was hired to do PCR for an HIV project for a private
company; and he wrote as the first sentence of his paper, "HIV is the probable
cause of AIDS." And he said he turned to a virologist and said, "What's the
reference for that?" And the virologist said, "You don't need it." Well, Mullis is
smart enough to know, of course, something new as this, you always have a
series of original papers that established unequivocally that this was the cause of
AIDS.

KARY MULLIS: Then and only then I started looking into it. I looked up a bunch
of papers in science that Bob Gallo -- I knew about him -- had written. And I
figured, well, Gallo must have been the one to figure it out because he is the
name I've heard associated with it. I looked at his papers, and I didn't find
anything in there that actually showed me that there was a fact now in science
called HIV is the cause of AIDS, or even the probable cause of AIDS, which is all
I would have expected, the probable cause of AIDS, highly probable, because
they were attacking the whole problem by then as though it were certainly the
cause. So I would expect it to be highly probable. But I couldn't find anything
that said it was remotely probable even. It was possible, but it wasn't probable.
And so, therefore, it wasn't even close to what you would call a fact.

KARY MULLIS: There are no really good experiments that would lead anybody
who was at least maintaining a healthy skepticism to believe that HIV was
responsible for this series of -- this not series but kind of a loose confederation of
diseases that people are now willing to call AIDS, right? It's a confederation of
maybe 30 different diseases, all of which have existed in one form or other prior
to the condition that we call AIDS ever being pointed out, and all of which have
had some other explanation at one time or other. You know, to say that all 30 of
those are somehow caused, in at least some cases called AIDS cases, by a virus
called HIV, I think -- I haven't seen any evidence for that. I haven't even seen
anybody trying to bring evidence forth for that.

KARY MULLIS: I mean I understand there are a lot of people if you ask them
about HIV causing AIDS as being a fact, they'll say, of course, it's indisputable.
And the very fact that they will say it's indisputable might lead to you question
their ability to understand scientific method. People that think any scientific fact
is indisputable don't understand about scientific facts.



http://www.theothersideofaids.com/images/OSATranscript.pdf[/quote]
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puffdaddy



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 506
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Beating AIDS denialism Reply with quote

Reading Kary Mullis: (she sounds like a dumbass.) "People that think any scientific fact
is indisputable don't understand about scientific facts." WTF is she trying to say dude?

How 'bout this: http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/evidhiv.htm


The above article indicates facts that Koch's postulates have been fullfilled in the current AIDS/HIV theories. (theories are just theories not facts)
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Continuity



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1716
Location: Municipal Flat Block 18A, Linear North

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kary Mullis is a man, dude, and also as has been mentioned the 1993 Nobel Prize winner in chemistry, for his invention of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR). Certainly not what you would call a dumb-ass.

Quote:
Reading Kary Mullis: (she sounds like a dumbass.) "People that think any scientific fact is indisputable don't understand about scientific facts." WTF is she trying to say dude?


I think that this is *exactly* what he was trying to say:

Quote:
theories are just theories not facts


Quote:
Kary Banks Mullis, Nobel Prize-winning chemist, was born on Dec. 28, 1944, in Lenoir, N.C.

He received a Bachelor of Science degree in chemistry from the Georgia Institute of Technology in 1966. He earned a Ph.D. degree in biochemistry from the University of California, Berkeley, in 1972 and lectured in biochemistry there until 1973. That year, Dr. Mullis became a postdoctoral fellow in pediatric cardiology at the University of Kansas Medical School, with emphasis in the areas of angiotensin and pulmonary vascular physiology. In 1977 he began two years of postdoctoral work in pharmaceutical chemistry at the University of California, San Francisco.

Dr. Mullis joined the Cetus Corp. in Emeryville, California, as a DNA chemist in 1979. During his seven years there, he conducted research on oligonucleotide synthesis and invented the polymerase chain reaction.

In 1986, he was named director of molecular biology at Xytronyx, Inc. in San Diego, where his work was concentrated in DNA technology and photochemistry. In 1987 he began consulting on nucleic acid chemistry for more than a dozen corporations, including Angenics, Cytometrics, Eastman Kodak, Abbott Labs, Milligen/Biosearch and Specialty Laboratories.

Dr. Mullis received a Nobel Prize in chemistry in 1993, for his invention of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR). The process, which Dr. Mullis conceptualized in 1983, is hailed as one of the monumental scientific techniques of the twentieth century. A method of amplifying DNA, PCR multiplies a single, microscopic strand of the genetic material billions of times within hours. The process has multiple applications in medicine, genetics, biotechnology and forensics.

PCR, which was the theoretical basis for the novel and motion picture Jurassic Park because of its ability to extract DNA from fossils, is in reality the basis of a new scientific discipline, paleobiology.

Dr. Mullis has authored several major patents. His patented inventions include the PCR technology and UV-sensitive plastic that changes color in response to light. His most recent patent application covers a revolutionary approach for instantly mobilizing the immune system to neutralize invading pathogens and toxins, leading to the formation of his latest venture, Altermune LLC.

Dr. Mullis was awarded the Japan Prize in 1993 for the PCR invention. It is one of international science's most prestigious awards.

His many other awards include the Thomas A. Edison Award (1993); California Scientist of the Year Award (1992); the National Biotechnology Award (1991); the Gairdner Award, Toronto, Canada (1991); the R&D Scientist of the Year (1991); the William Allan Memorial Award of the American Society of Human Genetics (1990); and the Preis Biochemische Analytik of the German Society of Clinical Chemistry and Boehringer Mannheim (1990). Dr. Mullis was presented the honorary degree of Doctor of Science from the University of South Carolina in 1994. He was inducted into the National Inventors Hall of Fame in 1998.

His many publications include "The Cosmological Significance of Time Reversal" (Nature), "The Unusual Origin of the Polymerase Chain Reaction" (Scientific American), "Primer-directed Enzymatic Amplification of DNA with a Thermostable DNA Polymerase" (Science), and "Specific Synthesis of DNA In Vitro via a Polymerase Catalyzed Chain Reaction" (Methods in Enzymology).

Dr. Mullis has written an autobiography, "Dancing Naked in the Mind Field," published by Pantheon Books in 1998.

He is currently a Distinguished Researcher at Children’s Hospital and Research Institute in Oakland, California.

Dr. Mullis serves on the board of scientific advisors of several companies, provides expert advice in legal matters involving DNA, and is a frequent lecturer at college campuses, corporations and academic meetings around the world.

He lives with his wife, Nancy Cosgrove Mullis, in Newport Beach, California, and in Anderson Valley, California.


From: http://www.karymullis.com/bio.html

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Cracrocrates



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Beating AIDS denialism Reply with quote

puffdaddy wrote:
My life's work is bullshit I chant! Now....where is that incense? Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked


Rebecca Culshaw www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/culshaw1.html wrote a phD dissertation on math models of HIV infection, so she and all those other hundreds of scientists must feel like shit if not in denial...many have to keep the lie alive to keep getting funding.

Quote:
To add to this impact, my chosen career has developed around the HIV model of AIDS. I received my Ph.D. in 2002 for my work constructing mathematical models of HIV infection, a field of study I entered in 1996. Just ten years later, it might seem early for me to be looking back on and seriously reconsidering my chosen field, yet here I am.
....
As it turns out, the reason there was no consensus mathematically as to how HIV killed T-cells was because there was no biological consensus. There still isn’t. HIV is possibly the most studied microbe in history – certainly it is the best-funded – yet there is still no agreed-upon mechanism of pathogenesis. Worse than that, there are no data to support the hypothesis that HIV kills T-cells at all. It doesn’t in the test tube. It mostly just sits there, as it does in people – if it can be found at all. In Robert Gallo's seminal 1984 paper in which he claims "proof" that HIV causes AIDS, actual HIV could be found in only 26 out of 72 AIDS patients. To date, actual HIV remains an elusive target in those with AIDS or simply HIV-positive.


Some assholes were busy getting their I.P.O.s on the stock market for companies with "HIV vaccines."

I can't imagine what a doctor in San Francisco must feel like dealing with this stuff on a regular basis.

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Continuity



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That patient that you treated for HIV/AIDS, puffdaddy, where did he, or you, reckon that he must have contracted it from, do you know?
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