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'I Warned Cops of 7/7 Bombers!' ...Oh Yeah?

 
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: 'I Warned Cops of 7/7 Bombers!' ...Oh Yeah? Reply with quote

How about this guy?

It's a Guardian, UK scoop so there are three stories in all.
The last is by Gilbertson himself --as told to the Guardian reporter.

He was their IT guy
Which put him pretty close to the action, eh?

One year after the event comes the supposed clincher to dismiss
all those 'conspiracy theories' about the 7/7 Bombings.

Only thing is: we know the intel penetration of such groups,
to the point of their being an intel creation. And so the place
would have been crawling with intel ops.......

So, is Martin Gilbertson, IT guru for an intel front,
.....just a regular guy?........


Quote:
VIDEO Claim over London bombers warning


The pair made "anti-Western" material, Mr Gilbertson said

A computer expert warned police about the activities of two of the 7 July London bombers in 2003, he says.

Martin Gilbertson told the Guardian he was concerned by material Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer produced at a West Yorkshire bookshop.

Video Here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5112428.stm

Quote:
IT expert: I worked with 7/7 bombers and warned police

Intelligence on bombers sent to detectives in 2003
Technician helped make anti-western propaganda


Ed Vulliamy, Saturday June 24, 2006 The Guardian

A computer expert who worked alongside two of the July 7 bombers claims today that he tried to warn the police about their activities almost two years before the suicide attacks.

Speaking for the first time about his work, Martin Gilbertson, 45, says he produced anti-western propaganda videos, secured websites and encrypted emails for Muslims who were involved in an Islamic bookshop and a youth centre attended by bombers Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer. Mr Gilbertson was also employed to establish firewalls that would safeguard both places from outside interference.

By October 2003, he says he was so alarmed by what he was producing in Beeston, West Yorkshire that he went to the local Holbeck police station, saying he had material and names he wanted to deliver to anti-terrorist officers. He was told to post his material, and did so, to West Yorkshire police headquarters in Wakefield. The package contained DVD material he had compiled for circulation by the bookshop, a list of names including Khan and Tanweer and a covering letter giving a contact telephone number.

He claims he heard nothing until he was interviewed three times by two officers from the Metropolitan police, having contacted them after the explosions.

"I wish I could have had some access to MI5," says Mr Gilbertson, "I probably could have got them in there, before the bombs went off".

Mr Gilbertson today tells for the first time how he encountered the bombers after being introduced to three men at a party in Beeston to celebrate the September 11 attacks .

Over two years, he was commissioned to make "presentations" in the backrooms of the Iqra bookshop, and at Hamara Youth Access Point, established later and visited regularly by Khan, a youth worker, and Tanweer. Khan and Tanweer were also, says Mr Gilbertson, involved in the Mullah Crew, a local gang which used to train at what was known as the "al-Qaida gym". Mr Gilbertson says the gym, which he visited, was linked to the bookshop, a few metres away.

Some of Mr Gilbertson's presentations showed children in Iraq and the Palestinian territories mutilated or killed by American or Israeli forces. At one point, he says, he reached a "last straw" and tried to alert the police. He fled the area, "sick and tired of the religious racism, sick of being bombarded". Attempts to convert Mr Gilbertson to Islam failed. "On reflection," he says, "I don't know which way round it was. Whether the people at Iqra were putting Khan up to it, or whether Khan was using them. The path of least resistance is to say that the people at Iqra were creating the atmosphere in which Khan worked. Khan was taking advantage of the atmosphere they were creating ... It was an atmosphere conducive to the bombers, a bedrock."

West Yorkshire police told the Guardian: "It's going to be almost impossible to trace what happened to a specific item of mail. It's impossible to say whether this made its way into the intelligence system, whether it was discounted as low-level intelligence or whether it was acted upon in some way". There is no evidence to implicate any of the workers at the Iqra bookshop or the Hamara centre in the July 7 plot.

Scotland Yard would not comment on Mr Gilbertson's claims, but it confirmed that a telephone number provided by him was for one of its anti-terrorist officers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1804936,00.html

Quote:
The IT man who tried to stop the 7/7 bombers

Computer expert made DVDs and encrypted emails for Islamist circle

Ed Vulliamy Saturday June 24, 2006 The Guardian

It began with a party in Beeston, Leeds, on September 12 2001 - crisps and soda passed around - in celebration of al-Qaida's murderous attack on New York and Washington. It ended with what was intended to be a dry joke in front of a television set on July 7 last year: "I bet they come from Beeston," said Martin Gilbertson, only to realise a few days later how "unfunny" his remark was.

By then it had emerged that two men the computer expert had worked closely with for several years were among the four who blew themselves up killing 52 people on three London tube trains and a bus. The pieces of a chilling jigsaw were falling into place. Mr Gilbertson would soon appreciate how unique a position he had occupied: "We were as far inside as anyone outside could get," he says.

Immediately after the bombings of July 7, Mr Gilbertson told his story to the anti-terrorist squad of the Metropolitan police, but has never done so publicly, until now. His attempts to alert West Yorkshire police, before the bombings, to what he was doing and with whom - including the provision of two names who would later become bombers - were, he claims, ignored.

Mr Gilbertson - from Blackpool, but a longtime resident of Yorkshire - is a former Hell's Angel and Motorhead roadie now working towards a university thesis on the radicalisation of Islam in Leeds.

But it was his IT expertise that was sought out by the men who ran four entwined institutions in Beeston frequented by two of the July 7 bombers - the Iqra Islamic bookshop, the Leeds Community School, the "al-Qaida gym" and the Hamara Youth Access Point (YAP), an offshoot of a mainstream Muslim community centre nearby.

All these institutions are a stone's throw from each other in the cluster of streets that is Beeston - a poor enclave of terraced housing on the road from Leeds to Dewsbury. And, between 2001 and 2004, Mr Gilbertson deployed his expertise to produce spine-chilling DVD "presentations" which contributed to what he himself calls the "atmosphere conducive to the bombers" in Beeston.

"I was doing it because I was on crap wages. I'm good at what I do, and I've got kids to feed. And after a while, I became so alarmed by what was going on around me, I went to the police."

The "presentations" depict crimes by the west against the Muslim world. Watching them, Mr Gilbertson is deeply moved. One opens majestically, with skillfully assembled sequences featuring a rising sun, a turning globe, set to sung verses from the Qu'ran. But for one presentation called Think Again, using material from a website called Harun Yahya, Mr Gilbertson re-edits a montage of images of violence in America, to a soundtrack of the Star Spangled Banner, ending - surreally - with the first plane crashing into the World Trade Centre.

"The amount of time I spent editing this bastard," says Mr Gilbertson. One sequence features President George Bush citing the word "crusade" after 9/11, repeating his threat and proceeding to a horrific history lesson about the Crusaders of old "like an unholy tide of demons let loose upon the earth". The presentation then twists into horrific images of mutilated, dismembered and slaughtered children in Iraq, the Palestinian territories and elsewhere. "If these pictures can make me cry," says Mr Gilbertson, "what effect are they going to have on some impressionable Muslim youth?" According to reports after the bombings, the man regarded as the bombers' ringleader, Mohammad Sidique Khan, distributed what newspapers called "horror DVDs". By October 2003, Mr Gilbertson had become so alarmed by his own work and the discourse around him that he went to the local Holbeck police station. He says he was told to send his material to West Yorkshire police headquarters. The package he sent to the force's HQ in Wakefield included examples of the DVDs he had produced, a contact number at which he could be reached and a list of names, including two of the bombers - Shehzad Tanweer and Sidique Khan - as well as the recipients and senders of their email traffic.

He heard nothing; his warning, he claims, disappeared into a black hole. "I only wish I had had some access to MI5. I probably could have got them in there, before the bombs went off."

Intelligence

Mr Gilbertson's package was addressed to the anti-terrorist squad. Asked this week about Mr Gilbertson's approach, a spokesman for West Yorkshire police told the Guardian: "It's going to be almost impossible to trace what happened to a specific item of mail. We don't have an anti-terrorist squad, and there's no way of saying to where it might have gone from the mailroom. We get all sorts of material on extremist groups - but it's impossible to say whether this made its way into the intelligence system, whether it was discounted as low-level intelligence or whether it was acted upon in some way."

The men who ran Iqra, Leeds Community School and Hamara YAP were Naveed "Jazz" Fiaz, Tafazal "Taf" Mohammed and a convert to Islam, a former Royal Marine called Martin McDaid, now Adbullah Mohammed, whom Mr Gilbertson met at the 9/11 celebration party. They approached Mr Gilbertson wanting instruction in website production. In the event, Mr Gilberston ended up doing the production work himself. He also repaired their computers and, with a young colleague, set up firewalls and encryptions to protect their network and emails from interception. He was asked to repair Mr McDaid's computer after it was seized by the police.

While "Taf" was a quiet manager who said little, Mr Gilbertson recalls McDaid, above all, "ranting and raving" about "jihad", with Khan and Tanweer visiting the bookshop and later the Hamara as regulars, but not as prime movers. Khan, says Mr Gilbertson, "seemed to want kudos ... to be a 'cool dude'". Often presented in media and security service reports as a mean, clean and lean "Bin Laden of Beeston", Mr Gilbertson remembers Khan best for his role in a street gang called the Mullah Crew, four of whom were convicted of murdering a black man in 2003 for "dissing" Islam.

On Khan's role and relationship with his employers, Mr Gilbertson concludes: "On reflection, I don't know which way round it was. Whether the people at Iqra were putting Khan up to it, or whether Khan was using them. The path of least resistance is to say that the people at Iqra were creating the atmosphere in which Khan worked. Khan was taking advantage of the atmosphere they were creating, but what I don't know is to what extent the others were aware of what he was doing." Mr Gilbertson did not hear any specific plans for suicide bombing. But an associate of his who does not wish to be identified, vividly recalls discussions in the community, and his conclusions from it: "Some people made it clear they had no objection to dying for their cause. They didn't see it as suicide, and didn't talk much about martyrdom. They saw the suicide bomb as the only weapon they had in a war in which they were outgunned and overpowered. It was a purely military consideration.

Upset

"So I came away thinking: If you want to be suicide bombers, why aren't you over there in Afghanistan or Iraq? And if you're not over there, why are you not upset that you are not? They were chomping at the bit to do something like this, but they weren't chomping at the bit to go over there. It puzzled me, until I had this sudden thought: hang on, if they aren't there, they're training for something here. That they had a bloody good reason for not being on the next plane over there. When 7/7 happened, it all became crystal clear."

The Guardian could not contact Mr McDaid who told the Daily Mirror last year that he condemned the attacks, and terrorism. He denied preaching hatred: "I am totally against violence of this sort and I completely condemn these acts." Tafazal Mohammed is a part-time student, but has yet to speak publicly and could not be traced out of term for comment. Naveed Fiaz was arrested after the July 7 bombings - having appeared with two of the bombers on a picture of a rafting trip, and was released without charge. Visits to various addresses associated with him and his family produced no response. Over the past year, local people have defended the bookshop and its workers, saying they had nothing to do with terrorism. "It was just a place where people go to meet, have a chat and read books."

Walking the little terraced streets of Beeston Mr Gilbertson points out the landmarks of his former employment. The "al-Qaida gym", where the enigmatic Khan would work and work out with youths in his care, is shuttered. Leeds Community School has been taken over by a Discount Decorator firm, yet to establish itself; what was the Iqra bookshop next door is closed. The Hamara Youth Access Point, another of Khan's haunts, hides behind a blue metal grate. The Hardy Street Mosque, at which the bombers and their circle worshipped and from which they were supposedly ejected, is also home to the Kashmir Muslim Welfare Association. Carved masonry proclaims the building as having been the Leeds Industrial Cooperative Society Ltd 1897. Chatting to former neighbours about Khan's Mullah Crew, it is learned that they have split and changed their name, to the Beeston Mafia Crew and Paki Loving Crew.

Research by Katy Heslop and Linda MacDonald

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1804953,00.html


Quote:
'When I heard where the bombers were from I felt sick'

Martin Gilbertson (as spoken to Ed Vulliamy)

Saturday June 24, 2006 The Guardian

September 11th, 2001: in front of a television set a computer shop in Beeston, Leeds - where I was working - aghast at the news, watching the Twin Towers fall. I will never forget, as the second plane crashed into the World Trade Centre's South Tower, the cheers of the people in the room around me. I was horrified by what I saw, while they screamed their hoorays. Next day, September 12th, with details coming out about the connections to al-Qaida, the owners of the shop and some of their 'brothers' from the area held a celebration party: drinking pop, passing round crisps - cheering, shouting their delight at what they saw as an attack on the infidel, Satanic USA.

I'd been working there only a few days - it was a Muslim-owned business, getting me work all over the area: Batley, Dewsbury and in Beeston itself. But it was at that gathering to celebrate 9/11 that I first made contact with three people: Naveed Fiaz, whom I knew as 'Jazz'; a former Royal Marine called Martin McDaid, who had converted to Islam and was now known as Martin Abdullah - and the quiet one, sitting at a computer during all this celebration, Tafazal Mohammed - or "Taf". These introductions were my first step into a murky world, in which I came to know two of those who bombed London on July 7th last year, and those around them, those behind them - people for whom I worked, people who needed my skills with computers, compiling their presentations and propaganda, and protecting their systems from outside; part of what I call the bedrock for what happened in London. We - myself and those who helped me - were as inside as anyone outside can get. And my warnings to the authorities about what was happening - long before 7/7 - were ignored.

This is how it happened: in December 2001, I was assigned to work for the Leeds Community School, based at 49a Bude Road in Beeston - for Martin Abdullah McDaid. The School was closely connected to - and run by the same people as - the Iqra Islamic bookshop next door, for whom the owners of TBB wanted me to start work in January 2002, teaching the 'brothers' how to use a Macromedia flash programme, for a presentation the bookshop wanted to compile.

Being reasonably proficient in producing flash animations - and because teaching flash takes a long time - I found myself doing the work for Iqra myself, and in June 2002 I left TBB to work on this first of 12 presentations I made for the group: "War on Terror: Hidden Agenda", finally finished on October 12 2002. They made several copies for distibution at the mass demonstration against the Iraqi war in February 2003.

The driving forces behind the work of the school and bookshop were the three I had met at the 9/11 celebration. The were back rooms at the bookshop, and access was by invitation only, and, apart from two colleagues of mine, I never saw a non-Muslim inside these rooms. They consisted of a downstairs internet suite with four PCs linked to the web by broadband, a first-floor prayer room and storage room for a women's group that met there every Sunday afternoon; plus, on the second floor, an office for the Leeds Community School and a room containing a digital video editing suite. Iqra and the Leeds Community School were capable to producing their own videos and along with the computers, they had a multi-CD burner to produce large quantities of of CDs and VCDs. How do I know these PC's? I built them!

Martin 'Abdullah' McDaid did most of the talking, most of the ranting and raving; and as an ex-Marine, he knew about matters military. Two of those who later became bombers on July 7th - Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer - were regular type - but the talk around me, all the conversation between themselves and their 'brothers', was about Jihad, Jewish conspiracy, how the Holocaust was a fake, the 'Great Satan' America - and Britain's alliance with the Satanic USA. Bush's word 'Crusade' triggered them off - triggered off their ranting about the 'Jihad', and we used it in the presentations - very effectively, I would add.

Indeed, though I say it myself, the presentations were unbelievable, and won me kudos in the Muslim community. The fact that I wasn't a Muslim baffled them, but they kept me on because of that kudos. Mostly, it was a job - but I was also doing it for the children. They would give me material you would never see on television - horrific stuff from Iraq in 1991, Afghanistan and the Middle East - and there I was, editing terrible pictures of what the Americans and Israelis had done to children. I have nine children myself, one of them victim of a tragedy - although I would later become an opponentof the war in Iraq, I was doing it for them, for the children.

What they were doing was creating an atmosphere in Beeston conducive to the bombers. If these pictures can make me cry, what effect are they going to have on some impressionable Muslim youth? This was religious racism. I am not at all convinced about any link to al-Qaida proper; I think this was home grown.

I was alarmed and disgusted by what I heard, but kept my views to myself, and they were friendly towards me. They needed my skills and I was perceived to be anti-Government. Some years before, I had set up a website and got some press coverage during the government's plans to criminalise DOS attacks on internet services. They liked that, they saw me as some kind of internet anarchist.

I spent a lot of time repairing their PCs, and clearing viruses they had picked up from Jihad websites, put there, I think, by the Americans. When the Jihad sites were closed down, they were often replaced by pornographic sites, again - I think - by the Americans. At one point, the police took McDaid's Laptop computer and stripped it down - I had to repair it. Naveed also had his home computer taken by the police, and I helped him build a new one.

From July 2003, a young colleague and I ran a computer and internet security course at Iqra. They wanted to secure their network from outside access. They wanted their emails encrypted. They had a computer upstairs that was offline, with a removable hard drive, and used a Linux server - an advanced server system which is more stable and a lot more secure. It had been paid for by an institution called the Hamara Healthy Living Centre, which had connections to mainstream Muslim community leaders. They provided it, and we supported it. We also set up a firewall on the main server which would make access from the outside harder. They also asked my young colleague to tell them how to hack - he refused. They also wanted me to access the videos of the beheadings of hostages in Iraq - I do actually have a sneaky way of getting to them, but said the government was blocking those sites, and that would be impossible.

I became aware of Sidique Khan, the man the newspapers and authorities call the bombers' 'ringleader'. To be honest, he wasn't the one who stood out. I bumped into him, and he was much like the others - 'Allah Akbar' and all that. But he wasn't the ranting type; what he seemed to want was kudos within the group, and among people on the street outside. Khan's way was to be a 'cool dude'; it was all about kudos in the Muslim community. Khan was well known at the gym round the corner, affiliated to the Leeds Community School and Iqra - known as the 'al-Qaida gym'. So far as I could see, Khan was the one who had to be 're-converted' or 'reverted' - as they say - back to Islam first.

I remember a conversation I had with another of the bombers, Shezhad Tanweer, in eary 2003. I thought I might have been seriously ill at the time, and he said he would pray for me. He couldn't have been nicer. What disturbed and disturbs me is: what happened to get them from that to what they then did? I think the answer lies in what I'm calling the "atmosphere" - the bedrock. I call it 'Ummaism', corrupting the youth; making them disillusioned with their families; determined to show that Western civilisation was a lie, that your parents are not living the Koran, that you are a Muslim first and supporting your brothers in arms is what it means to be a Muslim. A lot of young Muslims were being re-converted - or 'reverted' as they say - to this distortion of a beautiful religion. The attitude was: if you insult my religion, you will die.

You know how you have those moments of revelation? Something happened that was last straw. Even then, it never occured to me that there would be a bomb in Britain. But, in October 2003, I walked into the police station in Holbeck and said I have something for the Anti-Terrorist Squad. The officer told me to "send it in" to West Yorkshire police headquarters. I sent, by normal mail, a collection of the discs I had made and a covering letter, with my telephone number, to the West Yorkshire police. I added a list of names, including Khan and Tanweer, plus the names of people from whom they were receiving emails. Some of those names were quite surprising, because they included people regarded as mainstream Muslim community leaders. I heard nothing back from the police. Not a word. I only wish I had had some access to MI5 - I probably could have got them in there, before the bombs went off.

Khan became more prominent after that autumn of 2003, when the Hamara Youth Access Point (YAP) was opened, at 73 Lodge Lane - another front for the Leeds Community School and Iqra. They moved the Linux server from Iqra to the Hamara YAP. Khan used to go there without them, with some of the youths he was 'working' with - there were plenty of stories about him working and working out in there.

Anyway, from January 2004, I signed a contract to maintain and support the PCs at Hamara YAP. The following month, I finished the Iqra website and began work on Hamara's - it was a good website. During June that year, there was an open day for Muslim male youths, with anti-Western presentations, some of which I had worked on. I had even worked with Khan himself, a leaflet for the football team they had. I remember him having quite a flair for design. There was nothing special - it was just a job done. I used to play football with them quite regularly, Naveed, Khan and the others, though not McDaid. I scored seven goals !

On reflection, I don't know which way round it was. Whether the people at Iqra were putting Khan up to it, or whether Khan was using them. The path of least resistance is to say that the people at Iqra were creating the atmosphere in which Khan worked. Khan was taking advantage of the atmosphere they were creating, but what I don't know is to what extent the others were aware of what he was doing. I see it as series of pyramids: at the top, the official Muslim community leaders; below that, the pyramid I was working for at Iqra and Hamara YAP, with Khan as a hinge between this and a third tier of pyramids: one of which was the footsoldiers, the bombers.

But Khan was a hinge to another third-tier pyramid: the Mullah Crew. The Mullah Crew was an Asian street gang, ostensibly for self-defence against racist attacks, only I don't remember any racist attacks by whites in Beeston. Khan was playing the Mullah Crew, and the training of this crew was the other reason - apart from supposedly preparing for Afhanistan or Iraq - they were forever working out at the 'al-Qaida gym', and at various classes run by the Hamara YAP. Then, in April 2004, the Mullah Crew killed a black youth, Tyrone Clarke, who they said had insulted Islam. Tanweer was among those questioned by the police, but not one of the four members of the crew later convicted.

On my very first day, they had asked me if I believed in God. I had said 'No'. But they never stopped trying to convert me, especially McDaid, the convert himself. Sometimes, I felt that I may have come close, but I never made the leap - to my great relief, which sometimes leaves me wondering what would have happened if I had. By the end, I was even living in a house belonging to Taf - he said: "it's yours; no deposit, just pay the rent" - and sometimes not even that: I would do a bit of decoration in lieu.

But in July 2004, I left Beeston, to get away from it all. I was sick and tired of the religious racism. I was sick of being bombarded. I had done what I had done out of a sense of community, but felt I was being dragged into a cesspool in which I could drown. I wanted to get my wife and family away, and did: to the Harehills area. But I failed. I ran into McDaid. I was contacted again by Taf; he wanted me to teach a group at Iqra how to use web-based programmes - I refused. He asked me again, this time to teach a group how to produce secure web pages - I refused. Even in Harehills, I couldn't get away from the very religious dogma I'd worked on myself.

By July 7th 2005, I had moved to Keighley, still trying to get away from it all. I was with some Muslim friends that morning, watching the news from London. I said it as a joke: "they're probably from Beeston". A few days later, I realised how un-funny that was. When I heard where the bombers were from, I felt physically sick. It was the last piece in the jigsaw. Everything fell into place. I spent five hours trying to get hold of the Anti Terrorist Squad; this time they did come to meet me, at the Radisson SAS hotel. They were nice guys, and we talked. But they knew little about Islam and nothing about computers. All they wanted ot know about was Khan and Tanweer. My wife called them Dangermouse and Penfold. Thanks very much, they said, we'll get back to you. And they did: after the failed explosions on 21st July, they came back up and, at 2am, showed me the photographs of the non-bombers. I said I couldn't help.

The authorities, over all this, remind me of something I remember Eric Cantona saying: "When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1804930,00.html
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Useful Eater



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I wish I could have had some access to MI5," says Mr Gilbertson, "I probably could have got them in there, before the bombs went off".

Laughing

September 11th, 2001: in front of a television set a computer shop in Beeston, Leeds - where I was working - aghast at the news, watching the Twin Towers fall. I will never forget, as the second plane crashed into the World Trade Centre's South Tower, the cheers of the people in the room around me. I was horrified by what I saw, while they screamed their hoorays. Next day, September 12th, with details coming out about the connections to al-Qaida, the owners of the shop and some of their 'brothers' from the area held a celebration party: drinking pop, passing round crisps - cheering, shouting their delight at what they saw as an attack on the infidel, Satanic USA.


Laughing


Thanks for the light entertainment for this evening Fintan, I would have missed this article otherwise.
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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm constantly amazed at the audacity with which the scams are enacted with such sameness of approach, such identital M.O.'s, such obvious comparison to past ops. The "if only they'd have taken the warnings seriously" against the backdrop of "gross incompetance." Followed by, "no need to investigate, the across the board incompetance is all fixed up now." Then, "give us carte blanche to do what we want, or you'll die in your sleep."

Are they simply that cock-sure of themselves, and just daring the brighter ones to take notice? Or is this simply the formulas that work, so there's no need for the slightest variance, no matter what kind of flags they send up to anyone paying the slightest bit of real attention?

I couldn't help but notice that Charlie Sheen's infamous appearance on CNN was 3/22, the Skull & Bones' boys favorite number. They're just playfully thumbing their noses, aren't they?

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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting related development -

Bridget Dunne is finally getting some mainstream press. I wonder why now?

Does anybody think the CCTV photo is an 'orgy of evidence' style herring?


Quote:

Seeing isn't believing

A year on from 7/7, wild rumours are circulating about who planted the bombs and why. Some people even claim this picture of the four bombers was faked. Mark Honigsbaum, who accidentally triggered at least one of the conspiracy theories, investigates

Tuesday June 27, 2006
The Guardian


A CCTV image of the London bombers at Luton station on July 7. Photograph: Getty



On July 10 last year, Bridget Dunne opened the Sunday newspapers eager for information about the blasts that had brought death and mayhem to London three days earlier. Like many people that weekend, Dunne was confused by the conflicting reports surrounding what had initially been described as a series of "power surges" on the tube. Why were the Metropolitan Police saying that these surges, which were now being attributed to bombs, had occurred simultaneously at 8.50am, when they had originally been described as taking place over the space of 26 minutes?

Dunne, a 51-year-old foster carer, was also having trouble squaring the Met's statement on July 8 that there was "no evidence to suggest that the attacks were the result of suicide bombings" with the growing speculation that Islamic suicide bombers and al-Qaida were to blame for the blasts that had hit the London underground and a bus in Tavistock Square. The Met Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, had talked himself of "these people who oppose our way of life".

"I'm not a conspiracy theorist," insists Dunne. "I was just trying to make a cohesive, coherent story from the facts."

(Continues...)

From: Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | Seeing isn't believing
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't understand the doctored photo thing from the git-go, as far as being conclusive. They show you a grainy .jpg from a grainy camera, and then stress details how it looks like the railing protrudes through one figures body.

I've seen stuff in real photos I've taken myself that looks like a bad photoshop job. I took a digital camera photo of an old laptop that I'd throw a screwdriver through the screen. Everybody who saw that was conviced I'd photoshopped the screwdriver in, and it was a real picture. I knew, because I took it and I threw the screwdriver.

And as far as timing, it's perfect - we're 1 year out, al-CIAda has now jumped on the "guilt" bandwagon, and we need to get the CT side pumped up again, so we can have our endlessly debatable conflict.

Funny how we are in the age of unbelievable digital graphic fidelity in every area except public surveillance cameras now. I'd bet a year's pay (not a large bet, btw) that most cameras are much more hi-res than the compressed images that are dispensed to the public. I'm sure many of them can be quite precise if it's needed to prove an "official" theory, or officially reinforce a necessary suspicion.

I have running bets with some 'net friends, every time there's news of "new videos" being released, regarding 9/11. I always bet the farm that what's shown will prove nothing except that "there's much more to be debated and infinitessimally argued", preferably in ALL-CAPS blog posts. I believe I'm 6 and 0 so far. Laughing

Addendum: I don't mean to suggest that photo can't have been doctored. It may have, for all I know. But as usual, it's debatable. And the timing makes it fit into that "preferred" category of evidence - what we're being directed to see, and see at this precise moment.

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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, there's an easy way to "manufacture" that "confession video" of the London boy proclaiming his allegiance to Allah and vowing Death to the West.

MI6: Okay, Haji... welcome to the force. Your first op is going to be a bombing drill in the tubes. You and 3 other agents will be acting as Middle Eastern operatives, going through the motions as if you were blowing up a few tube trains.

Agent: Okay.

MI6: There's nothing to worry about, you'll have dummy bombs. All we need you to do is plant the dummy explosives, then make your way out, to see if any of the field agents and Bobbies recognize what you're up to.

Agent: Sounds like fun.

MI6: One more thing... there is a peripheral procedure to this drill, a little something extra we came up with. We want to test the local police's reaction to this drill, to see if they can - after the drill - recognize one of you from one of those "mission declaration videos" they make at the Mosques before a bomber goes off to do his work. So, we need one of you to volunteer to make one of those videos - you know, appear in front of the flag of Palestine, wearing a red bandana, holding an AK, you know... the standard stuff. We'll shoot it right in the basement here on a cheap camera, and we'll make it look very authentic, even write you one of those hate-filled suicide speeches. You in?

Agent: Yeah, I'll do it.

MI6: Great. You wouldn't happen to have a Palestinian flag at home, would you?

Agent: Umm, no. What do they look like? I don't even know where Pallastein is.

MI6: Never mind. Just bring a red bandana... oh wait, I think a CIA buddy of mine has a few brand-news ones left over from the Flight 93 op. And btw, you didn't hear that.

Cool

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rabbiosi



Joined: 10 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject: For the record Reply with quote

Burying red herrings?

"Evidence showing that all three of the London bombers of Pakistani descent visited Pakistan last year has been thrown into doubt."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4704427.stm

"An Egyptian chemist detained in Cairo has been cleared of any links with the London bomb attacks, officials say."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4695891.stm

Inevitably a question as to whether such incidents were premeditated, orchestrated decoys designed to promote the Al Qaeda and Islamic militants "Terror" war or the results of a genuine frantic investigation.

Keep up the good work, my sincerest compliments for the site.

Razz
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Continuity



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject: Cameras... Reply with quote

Quote:
Funny how we are in the age of unbelievable digital graphic fidelity in every area except public surveillance cameras now. I'd bet a year's pay (not a large bet, btw) that most cameras are much more hi-res than the compressed images that are dispensed to the public. I'm sure many of them can be quite precise if it's needed to prove an "official" theory, or officially reinforce a necessary suspicion.


Believe me - I used to work at a place that manufactured the damn things (CCTV cameras - v. good ones) and that was a few years ago, now, I don't even think they've changed them that much - these cameras are good.

The ones I'm talking about are the ones that you see 100's feet up on light-poles, or the ones in train stations, public sqares etc.

The problem a few years back was not with the quality of the cameras, sensors or optics, which are just fine - it was the quality of the VCR tape which was invariably (re)used again and again, even though the recommendations were to use only high-quality "metal" tapes and then only once. (or sometimes max twice)

Of course, when the (worn-out) VCR image was transferred to a still, often with shitty lossy compression as well - you get images as shitty as we're all used to seeing.

But any security image system that's been installed over the past 5 years or so will prolly use digital means (hard-drive recording etc) in the 1st place, so the images should, nearly always be a lot better than what they show us.

Regards,
C.

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