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Please help me save lives, now NEEDLESSLY lost!~~~

 
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CaptainChurch



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Albuquerque

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Please help me save lives, now NEEDLESSLY lost!~~~ Reply with quote

Arrow Idea
Help spread these [volunteer sites] planet-wide and express real
empathy!~~~

~~~~~SUICIDE VACCINE~~~~~[It works, which is the only point, Eh?!]
http://CaptainChurch.proboards57.com
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=24582
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=15311
http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ChurchCaptain
~~~On sites above: "A New fact about Jesus Christ" and "666 finally
explained"~~~
*
http://groups.google.com/group/TeenAnswers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BestTeenAnswers
http://groups.google.com/group/answers-for-teens
[~~~All groups:::5 permanent monographs & no chat~~~
like, "Who are YOU?!?" , "The useless War of the Sexes" and "LOVE is
the Real Thing".]

http://www.bev.net/users/homepages/JamesSorrell [My first web
page-2003]

Jim Sorrell [CaptainChurch] Cool
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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lurker
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain, I see that your posts are usually ignored, so I will respond. You are anti-suicide, right?

Who wouldn't be?

Certainly, amongst teens, and anybody in their 20s or 30s. After that I think most of us have accummulated enough life experience to know if we want to live or die. Forgive me if I have misinterpretted your posts. Having recently had to deal with a woman my age committing suicide (knowing she was going to do it, and being the one who found her body) it is a subject very close to my heart. To say it left me traumatised is to put it mildly, but the worst outcome was for her. She is dead.

Can you expand a bit on what you want to say? I find links to other websites a total turn-off in all honesty. If I bought a newspaper (like I did in the "old days") and I kept getting referenced to other sources, I would feel a little bit pissed off.

What is your message Captain? To my mind suicide is SELF murder. But I very strongly understand the suicidal impulse and believe it is every individual's right to take their own life when they feel they cannot continue on with their life.

Thanks for reading (if you did).
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Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2448
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: Suicide is short-circuiting the process Reply with quote

It is also an insult to your spirit and a rejection of your self and your source. It is the one act that you never plan before coming here and it is the one act that totally succumbs to the retarding and involutive forces that are arrayed against us in our struggle to evolve.

In the blueprint that you created and came into this existance with, there are many dangers and difficulties but they all serve to provide you with the tools and the experience to deal with those issues and aspects of your person that need to be adjusted and improved.

Once you have completed this, you will leave in the appropriate fashion to complete the picture. When you consign yourself to the scrap heap, you are denying your birthright and the intelligence of your own purpose. Suicide is a crime of the highest order as it is an affront to your self.

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The grand design, reflected in the face of Chaos.
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think suicide is rooted in confusion and mistaken emphasis.

I think most people commit suicide over legitimate feelings of utter despair, hopelessness, sadness, and self-rejection or hate. I said the feelings are real.

Yet most of these feelings involve exaggerated social crises and interpretations which manifest in feelings of shame and guilt, mental barriers to forgiveness of self and others, correctable self-image errors, self-condemnation, and an exaggerated focus on "drama" and "pathos" which can grab any of us who has an ego. A lot of SYMBOLIC MEANING is involved, albeit symbolic interpretations of some real events. Depression, which may sometimes be a physical brain chemistry imbalance, but is often rooted in a thought-problem, can make waking and living so emotionally painful that death is seen as relief.

At times it's hard to imagine that much emotional pain, at other times it can be hard to shake.

However, after you're gone, the birds are still singing, life is still attempting to give birth and survive, and humans are still struggling to make the world a better (or worse) place, and you get to miss all that exciting drama.

So I would try to help anyone (and have) to step OUTSIDE their box and view their situation and crises with some detachment ... and dark humor. This is nearly impossible for the sole individual caught in such a mental spiral to accomplish on their own. That's quite a bit different from condemning such a person for selfishness, though in a particular paradigm, suicide is a selfish or self-absorbed act.

I'm suggesting some reprogramming assistance, helping someone create appropriate mental filters or higher-level foundational thinking through which to view the world and one's life and the human race. (Some religions attempt to do that -- via metaphor.) I believe in decreasing the spin of the drama, interrupting it's seriousness with such tools as humor, and not hightening it by adding more condemnation of the suicide planner.

The use of humor in conjunction with drama is an old trick of artists and people of wisdom, to help us interpret life in a successful manner. Is that not true? I dunno. I think Shakespeare was into that.

That's only my viewpoint, as a non-professional psycho. Laughing
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help me save lives, now NEEDLESSLY lost!~~~ Reply with quote

CaptainChurch wrote:
Arrow Idea
Help spread these [volunteer sites] planet-wide and express real
empathy!~~~

~~~~~SUICIDE VACCINE~~~~~[It works, which is the only point, Eh?!]
~~~On sites above: "A New fact about Jesus Christ" and "666 finally
explained"~~~
*

Jim Sorrell [CaptainChurch] Cool
~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sorry Jim. I see your good intentions. Well-meaning. At one point I had to establish a working relationship with a higher power, but if I was suicidal and someone started quoting complicated Biblical Scripture at me, I think I'd kill myself just to get them to shut up.

A demonstration of empathy, on the other hand ... that is truly a spiritual gift.
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lurker
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert_g:
Quote:
Depression, which may sometimes be a physical brain chemistry imbalance, but is often rooted in a thought-problem, can make waking and living so emotionally painful that death is seen as relief.


And there is still no CURE-ALL for depression, whatever manifests it (physical brain chemistry and/or thought problem). So yes, death is then seen as relief.
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Mike



Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 333

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not so sure that depression, or anger or sadness for that matter, are "problems" that need to be "fixed."

Whether it is the Bush administration telling us that everything is hunky dory, or Amway salesmen preaching "think and grow rich," or New Age pseudo-Eastern religion believers - "you create your own reality" - it all strikes me as variations on the naive modern American "put on a happy face" delusional approach to reality.

There are things that happen for which those emotional states are the appropriate and sane human response.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan:
Quote:
So I have a big problem with funerals. They are such a laughable display of mental illness.

Or spiritual illness. The same thing really. Call it what you will, I call it a farcical display of reinforcement of shared delusion that there is ever anything or anybody lost.

Ever.

The whole "loss" thing is the mirror reflection of inability to perceive reality.

But what can you do? if you laugh out loud at the fallacy of a gathering of immortal beings huddled mournfully around a hole dug in the clay, and bemoaning mortality, then they might likely tear you limb from limb for disrespecting their tragic "loss."

ROTFLMAO. It's abso-fuckin-lutely hilarious.


Mike:
Quote:
I am not so sure that depression, or anger or sadness for that matter, are "problems" that need to be "fixed."

Whether it is the Bush administration telling us that everything is hunky dory, or Amway salesmen preaching "think and grow rich," or New Age pseudo-Eastern religion believers - "you create your own reality" - it all strikes me as variations on the naive modern American "put on a happy face" delusional approach to reality.

There are things that happen for which those emotional states are the appropriate and sane human response.


I totally agree with you Mike, but I am confused by Fintan's previous involvement in the "anti-suicide movement" (for want of a better term) which is where he seemed to start out (after the suicide of his brother) BEFORE getting involved in 9/11 truth and other matters. I thought the death of the individual was one of Fintan's motivating factors.

Confused Question
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Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2448
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Dr.,Dr., gimme a cure, I got a .... Reply with quote

And if these emotional states were just symptoms? Some more severe and potentially damaging than others.

Still real and with tangible effects, just from a cause that can be dealt with in other ways. Doing nothing allows it to go unchecked, psychotherapy is palliative and drugs are overwhelming.

You have to reach in and explore with the application of some brilliance that we all have and are able to share for that reason.

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Mike



Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 333

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Dr.,Dr., gimme a cure, I got a .... Reply with quote

Peter wrote:
And if these emotional states were just symptoms? Some more severe and potentially damaging than others.

Of course. Pain is "just" a symptom of an injury. Then everything is a "symptom" yes? If how we feel is the only standard for judging anything, we are negating that humans are social beings, living in cooperative communities and having effects on each other.

Emotional states are more like an "observation" of objective reality than a "symptom" and solely internal, no? The pain is the "messenger" the injury is the "message."

Quote:
Still real and with tangible effects, just from a cause that can be dealt with in other ways. Doing nothing allows it to go unchecked, psychotherapy is palliative and drugs are overwhelming.


Not sure what "other ways" means. If we divorce objective reality from subjective emotions, we truly have created hell on earth.

Quote:
You have to reach in and explore with the application of some brilliance that we all have and are able to share for that reason.


I prefer to look out, not in. My observation is that over the last 30 years we have been increasingly harangued from all directions to look inward. The more we do that, the worse things get out there.

For most of the people in the world, the very real pressure from events in objective reality preclude spending a lot of time on self-analysis or self-improvement.

My emotions may be a symptom of observing the suffering that others are going through, and I would not judge them as being insufficiently evolved or enlightened, and so blame in some way for their suffering, because they do not have the luxury of being able to indulge in self-improvement. I don't want that empathy to be cured.
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