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john23



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]
So, what is it John: a virus introduced by a vaccine or no virus at all? Boring stuff? (Answer: the vaccine probably increased the chance of testing hiv-positive, but hiv doesn't exist)[/quote]

who cares, HIV doesn't cause aids, drugs, politics (like the aids umbrella) and poverty do. It does have some fascination on a 'how they did the crime' level. It doesn't really matter if HIV exists or not, they can still make a test up out of thin air like they did with hepatitis. Medical tests come and go.

They could have intoduced a germ, like a mycoplasma, into the hep B vaccine to induce a disease so they could then start the AIDS ball rolling. In Africa 'AIDS' was mainly in the polio vaccine areas, but polio vaccine is used for genocide in itself, so that doesn't mean there was anything special in it. See Nkuba http://www.whale.to/a/nkuba_h.html
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Jeroen



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john23 wrote:
who cares, HIV doesn't cause aids, drugs, politics (like the aids umbrella) and poverty do.

Well, that's not with Alan Cantwell says, so why not remove him from your website? Anyway, I suggested that Peter Duesberg might be a fake--perhaps a mortal sin in the the dissident community. I think however, that it's appropriate to raise such doubts when they are well argued. Here's an argument I forgot, starting with something Kary Mullis wrote about Duesberg:
Quote:
I had known of Peter when I was a graduate student at Berkeley. He had been described as a truly brilliant scientist who had mapped a particular mutation to a single nucleotide in what was to become known eventually as an oncogene. In the 1960s that was a real feat. Peter went on to develop the theory that oncogenes might be introduced by viruses into humans and cause cancer. The idea caught on and became a serious theoretical driving force behind the research that was funded under the unfortunate name "War on Cancer." Peter was named California Scientist of the Year.

Not satisfied resting on his laurels, Peter torched them. He found flaws in his own theory and announced to his surprised colleagues who were working on demonstrating it that it was highly unlikely. If they wanted to cure cancer, their research should be directed elsewhere. Whether it was because they were more interested in curing their own poverty than cancer or that they just couldn't come to grips with their mistake, they continued to work fruitlessly on the viral-oncogene hypothesis for ten years.
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/kmdancing.htm

So Duesberg was at least partly responsible for introducing the viral-oncogene hypothesis but then became a a dissident. Duesberg now thinks an abnormal number of chromosomes (aneuploidy) causes cancer, a theory about which he was allowed to write in the may 2007 issue of Scientific American. The editors do however make the following preposterous comment:
Quote:
The author, Peter Duesberg, a pioneering virologist, may be well known to readers for his assertion that HIV is not the cause of AIDS. The biomedical community has roundly rebutted that claim many times. Duesberg’s ideas about chromosomal abnormality as a root cause for can­cer, in contrast, are controversial but are being ac­tively investigated by mainstream science. We have therefore asked Duesberg to explain that work here. This article is in no sense an endorsement by SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN of his AIDS theories.
http://www.reviewingaids.org/awiki/files/DuesbergSciAmCancer.pdf

Note that both the (viral) oncogene and the chromosomal abnormality hypothesis concern changes of the DNA in the nucleus. Here's what the Perth group has to say about that:
Quote:
It is often stated cancer is caused by changes in the DNA (mutations) or by cancer causing genes (oncogenes). However, in experiments conducted in the 1960s (upon which the present day animal cloning is based) by exchanging cell nuclei (where DNA is housed), it was proven that the character of a cell is determined by factors outside the nucleus. That is, factors within the cytoplasm determine what the DNA does--not vice versa. At present there is much evidence that the DNA function is regulated by the cellular redox state.
http://theperthgroup.com/EPE/RedoxTheory.doc

So, it could have been known in the 60s that every theory in which the nucleus is held responsible for causing cancer must be wrong. Perhaps his aneuploidy hypothesis will be the leading hypothesis for the next fraudulent "War on Cancer", and he himself might once again become a dissident. But would that be for real?
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john23



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, it could have been known in the 60s that every theory in which the nucleus is held responsible for causing cancer must be wrong. Perhaps his aneuploidy hypothesis will be the leading hypothesis for the next fraudulent "War on Cancer", and he himself might once again become a dissident. But would that be for real?


You would be daft to follow Duesberg on cancer given his involvement in the fake war on cancer, and he may have been into the special virus cancer programme, and it is a distraction anyway--- and it just buys into the war on cancer main lie that the solution to cancer hasn't been already found, similar in a way to the theories on how HIV causes AIDS. In other words mostly skidmark research http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/townofallopath.htm which also just hides the real question to ask--why does the body break down and create cancer? And stops anyone looking outside the town of allopathy for answers, as the cure is just around the corner if we spend more money.

Also the real causes of cancer get ignored, mostly because they are iatrogenic from the dental industry (mercury and root canals), vaccine industry, or the chemical industry through chemical farming and junk food such as pasteurised and homogenised milk (breast cancer), and aspartame (cancer, MS).

The real solutions to curing cancer get ignored, the collation of which would cure all cancers or over 98% anyway, including the Vitamin B17 (laetrile) deficiency, selenium, etc. And Hamers emotional theory which he has proved with cat scans, and Beard, Budwig (fats), Warburg (oxygen) etc http://www.whale.to/a/cancer_c.html

Not forgetting Livingston's theory of the cancer microbe found a lot in chicken.

If all that knowledge was in use by governments then we wouldn't even think about cancer, and save ourselves about 300 Billion $$ every year.

And the zapper cures all cancers except prostate and leukemia., which lends credence to Livingstons research.

There is plenty of stuff on Whale that isn't true, no doubt, but I expect people to use their own discernment, not find another totem to replace Allopathy. Whale is a help towards finding the truth and a source of knowledge as that is my want, and I share it the world. I also hate secrets.

Seeing outside the town of allopathy is the main point of whale. Once you can do that you are free of medical brainwashing, which is the main thing to get rid of as it is the number one Tyrant in western countries, the leading cause of death and disability, which is the main point of vaccination---creating a market for the drugs and doctor visits.

john
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urbanspaceman



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Location: London , UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had some time since my last post (9 days ago) to dig more deeply into this issue, on both AIDS and Rappoport's story about his interview with this fellow Medavoy.

It's my considered opinion that Medavoy is a complete fabrication, designed to scare and intimidate skeptics of the main cover story. Remember, that the covert operators are feeding the skeptics like us red herrings all the time, distracting and leading us on away from the truth. This story about this informant is there to make us think that the AIDS issue was an NWO plot from the very beginning, always under the complete control of very powerful people behind the scenes.

My rule of thumb is: be suspicious of any story that tries to get you to believe that the PTB already rule the world and control all world events. That's a lie designed to intimidate you and make you believe that that the battle is already over: "we already control everything, so there's nothing you can do. We can manipulate world events with ease".

AIDS was not a depopulation plot from the very beginning. It began with the greed and fraud of Dr. Gallo. People were quick to accept it because of "sex is bad and now we are being punished" meme (as well as a virus fad in medicine), then the issue became a cash cow for the drug companies. When regulations became stricter in the first world, the drug companies targeted Africa. The G8 want to increase their military presence in Africa, so perhaps there is now a consolidation of interests with the MIC, and it's become a larger conspiracy as a way to control Africa...that's plausible.

Talk of lizards, illuminati, freemasons, satanists, jesuits, all ruling the world with ease, is smoke and mirrors, kids. It's all a Halloween show designed to scare the shit out of you.

AIDS is now a conspiracy...but the conspirators simply got lucky with the chance appearance of the ambitious amoral lowlife Robert Gallo.
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john23



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

urbanspaceman wrote:
Talk of lizards, illuminati, freemasons, satanists, jesuits, all ruling the world with ease, is smoke and mirrors, kids. It's all a Halloween show designed to scare the shit out of you. AIDS is now a conspiracy...but the conspirators simply got lucky with the chance appearance of the ambitious amoral lowlife Robert Gallo.


That is the belief for pyjama people, 1-3 veil in this setup http://www.whale.to/b/sl.html

And what disninfo artists would want everyone to believe, that way they can keep everyone from seeing Big Brother.

Go back to sleep, satanism doesn't exist and the world isn't run by satanic psychopaths.

The solution is to orgonite the shit out of them http://www.whale.to/b/orgonite.html but you can't do that if you have your head in the sand.

Having said that, it is better for PJ folk to believe in the government etc as another sub game is to get everyone cynical and afraid to look outside the box (big dragon out there) so they will create a dire future as thought is creative.

"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
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urbanspaceman



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Location: London , UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A solid case can be made that Rappaport is a disinfo agent. He legitimized himself with the SARS reporting, but then his website stopped posting news, and all that was left was a series of New Age lectures which he charges $60 a pop to listen to. That puts his credibility down to near zero.

John23, what is your first-hand experience of the sixth veil, where the Reptilians can supposedly be seen? Even in David Icke's books, he only talks about second hand stories. Without better evidence, I'm inclined to believe the lizard people are part of the disinfo campaign, designed to poison the well. If you've got some better evidence than quotes from books, which I think is fiction designed to scare us, then I'm prepared to listen to your story.
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john23



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

urbanspaceman wrote:
If you've got some better evidence than quotes from books, which I think is fiction designed to scare us, then I'm prepared to listen to your story.

Bartley is good http://www.whale.to/b/bartley_h.html And the whole abduction field, eg Carla Turner http://www.whale.to/b/turner_h.html
Wiolowa http://www.whale.to/b/wiolawa_h.html Schneider http://www.whale.to/b/schneider.html Bielek http://www.whale.to/b/bielek.html

Plus the evidence from Don Croft http://www.whale.to/b/mc4.html and so on.

there is a vast amount of evidence on the alien presence. I wont believe it until I see one myself but unless you have an open mind your beliefs will create what you believe. Basic spiritual psychology.

I read all the Shapiro books http://www.whale.to/a/shapiro_h.html which are a good intro for spiritual people, into Secret government, Alien presence, human purpose.

If you have any evidence reptilians don't exist then go ahead, otherwise it is just beliefs and they are 10 a penny.

And I don't see why they would want to scare us with lizards, they have been doing pretty well for centuries without that.

And the more you look the more questions you come up with, why do the masons worship BAAL? Who is satan, who is lucifer? etc.
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urbanspaceman



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Location: London , UK

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john23 wrote:
...you have an open mind your beliefs will create what you believe. Basic spiritual psychology.

That is true, and that is why if you approach a subject with a certain belief, your belief will tend to be confirmed. I do accept that your beliefs can filter what you perceive. I also think 'keeping an open mind' doesn't quite work, because beliefs aren't just 'in the way'; we need them to perceive in the first place. Beliefs provide context for what we see.

So instead of pretending that you can study a subject openly without preconceived beliefs, I recommend this method:
believe A, read a subject, then believe B, and read the same subject, then believe C, and study the same subject again. Then at least you are conscious what you are projecting, instead of pretending to have an open mind that isn't projecting. There's no absolute standard of truth, but I tend to lean toward the beliefs that provide the most coherence. There's a feeling of things fitting into place when you get closer to the truth.

I will check out some of your links. I'm always willing to suspend my current beliefs and try new ones on for size.

On aliens: I used to think that Whitley Streiber was sincere, a long time ago, but when Fintan did a story about how he was promoting the idea that the Gulf Stream was going to stop and it would mean environmental catastrophe (which became the basis for the film "A Day After Tomorrow"), I realized it was more likely that he was a fear-monger and a disinfo agent. I'm not saying that disproves aliens, but that there are a lot of covert operatives involved in fucking with your mind on the subject. Streiber was a horror writer before he started writing books about aliens....totally plausible that he was asked to employ his talents at some point by the intelligence community.

There's probably some real phenomena behind the alien lore, but over the years I haven't been able to determine what it is.

The problem with studying secret societies is that they are secret. I think secrecy is not always there to hide evil, but that there was a tradition in the mystery religions to protect knowledge that would probably be misunderstood by the average person. Many religions have levels to them, which have higher teachings that they don't make public, and this isn't proof of hiding evil necessarily. Many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Masons, and I think that shows that they weren't worshipers of a God of Destruction. The written foundations of the US are highly moral, a great step forward at the time.

I noticed you quoted VALIS on your website, where Philip K Dick talks about how "the Empire never ended". Well, if you recall, Dick followed the Gnostic tradition. Many in the Gnostic tradition identify Jehovah as Satan...the Demiurge, the insane craftsmen who created this world and believes himself to be the only God. Does that mean Dick is an evil Satanist because he calls the God of the mainstream Christians the devil?

You have to look beyond the terminology. Who cares what deity you worship and what its name is...what does it represent? Are they worshiping a God of suffering and destruction, or something life affirming? To some, Baal was a god of fertility, or the lifeforce (prana). And lucifer is an Archangel of light to some, also a symbol of the lifeforce or lower mind. Christianity is a death cult in the hands of a Sadist...if you've got a person of low morality interpreting religion, you tend to get evil.

Anyway, really veering off the topic here, but whether Reptilians exist or not, trying to argue that they are responsible for the AIDS plot takes about 100 leaps in logic that I'm not prepared to make. Just like in court, documentary evidence is not enough to convict, since documents can be forged.
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urbanspaceman



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Location: London , UK

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post deleted
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john23



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Truth is a fruit that can only be picked when it is very ripe."--Voltaire
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Jeroen



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

urbanspaceman wrote:
AIDS was not a depopulation plot from the very beginning. It began with the greed and fraud of Dr. Gallo.

I agree that it probably wasn't a depopulation plot from the beginning, but it certainly didn't begin with Robert Gallo. The first description of aids cases appeared in two reports from the CDC in june and juli of 1981:
Quote:
In the period October 1980-May 1981, 5 young men, all active homosecuals, were treated [with TMP/SMX=Trimethoprim/Sulfamethoxazole=Co-trimoxazole] for biopsy-confirmed Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia at 3 different hospitals in Los Angeles, California. Two of the patients died. [...] Patient 1: [...] The patient's condition deteriorated despite courses of treatment with trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (TMP/SMX), pentamidine, and acyclovir. He died May 3, and postmortem examination showed residual P. carinii and CMV pneumonia, but no evidence of neoplasia. [...] The 5 did not have comparable histories of sexually transmitted disease [...] All 5 reported using inhalant drugs, and one reported parenteral drug abuse. [...] Editorial Note: Pneumocystis pneumonia in the United States is almost exclusively limited to very immunosuppressed patients (1). [...] The fact that these patients were all homosexuals suggests an association between some aspect of a homosexual lifestyle or disease acquired through sexual contact and Pneumocystis pneumonia in this population.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/reports/mmwr/pdf/mmwr05jun81.pdf

The inhalant drugs are nitrite inhalants, aka poppers and the "parenteral drug" is probably heroin. Note that at least some of the patients had a history of STDs and that the CDC considers "lifestyle" as a possible cause. According to the second report:
Quote:
During the past 30 months, Kaposi's sarcoma (KS), an uncommonly reported malignancy in the United States, has been diagnosed in 26 homosexual men (20 in New York City (NYC); 6 in California). [...] Six patients had pneumonia (4 biopsy confirmed as due to [i]Pneumocystis carinii (PC)), and one had necrotizing toxoplasmosis of the central nervous system. [...] Secondly, the disease [KS] appears to have a higher incidence in renal transplant recipients (6-9) and in others receiving immunosuppressive therapy (10-12).
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/reports/mmwr/pdf/mmwr04jul81.pdf

So it was known that PCP occurs in immunosuppressed patients and KS in patients receiving immunosuppressive therapy. Note that the second report doesn't say anything about the (medical) drug use of the patients. In animal experiments, nitrite inhalants were found to be dangerous immunosuppressive substances. Also, trimethoprim, one of the substances in co-trimoxazole, prevents rejection of skin transplants in mice just as long as azathioprin, a medical drug known to cause PCP and KS in humans. According to Heinrich Kremer, nitrite inhalants, trimethoprim and azathioprin have an analogous "nitrogen action profile". Both nitrite inhalants and co-trimoxazole were widely used in the gay community. Kremer therefore concludes:
Quote:
Although the causes of AIDS were obvious, the gay-male AIDS and cancer illnesses were explained as a mystery. Instead it was postulated that there had to be a "new virus" causing the illnesses. Otherwise one would have had to reckon on a pharmaceutical catastrophe with unforeseeable consequences.
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/heinterviewhk.htm

The "pharmaceutical catastrophe" concerns resistance against co-trimoxazole which, instead of curing 2 of the 5 first patients, contributed to their death. The first cases of such resistance had already been published in 1974. After receiving the first 2 reports, the CDC formed a task force to study the findings:
Quote:
Most of the cases were reported directly to the CDC or were identified in following up requests for pentamidine isethionate (a drug exclusively distributed in the United States by the CDC for therapy of PCP) or through active surveillance in metropolitan New York City, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. To determine the background levels of PCP, pentamidine isethionate requests made to the CDC from 1976 through June 1980 were investigated. During this period, there was one request for pentamidine to treat PCP in an adult without an underlying disorder identified. During the last half of 1980, nine such requests were made. In 1981, 55 requests for pentamidine were filled for adults without known underlying disease, accounting for 37 percent of all the requests for pentamidine for adults that year.
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/32/6/330

Perhaps the increase in pentamidine, in part, reflects the failure of co-trimoxazole; only one of the patients in the first report had been treated with pentamidine and he died. So the pentamidine may have been tried only because co-trimoxazole had failed. Also, according to the CDC, co-trimoxazole (still) is "the treatment of choice" for PCP. Surprisingly, the task force in its 1982 paper also writes:
Quote:
Recent advances in the field of retroviruses and the association of one of them, human T-cell leukemia virus (HTLV), with human T-cell lymphomas, raise the possibility of a role for retroviruses in this outbreak. [47-49]
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/32/6/330

All the references are papers of Robert Gallo. This was written one and a half year before Robert Gallo announced to the world that he had found a retrovirus probably causing aids! In the mean time, the CDC convinced the public that a deadly, yet to be found virus must be the cause of aids. Note also that T-cells are supposed to die in patients with aids, not become cancerous, making "the possibility of a role for retroviruses" even less likely. So, if you replace "Medavoy" in the sentence below with "some people", the statement is likely to be true:
Quote:
In 1983, a year before HIV (aka HTLV-III) was announced to the world as the official cause of AIDS, Medavoy knew that Robert Gallo would be the messenger for "some kind of retrovirus that would be said to be the driving force behind a global plague."
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/jrmedavoy.htm

The hypothetical virus of the CDC task force however, probably only served as a cover--not for depopulation--but for a pharmaceutical catastrophe. When Peter Duesberg writes about SMON that
Quote:
For fifteen years the syndrome was mismanaged by the Japanese science establishment, where virtually all research efforts were controlled by virus hunters. Ignoring strong evidence to the contrary, researchers continued to assume the syndrome was contagious and searched for one virus after another.
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/besmon.htm

perhaps we should read:
Quote:
For fifteen years the Japanese science establishment succesfully covered up the obvious pharmaceutical cause of the syndrome.
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urbanspaceman



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: London , UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post, Jeroen.

It is indeed hard to know for sure exactly when and how this hoax began. But I think anyone who has done an amateur investigation of it can be confident that we can point the first finger to Gallo as someone who definitely committed conscious fraud. It's hard to know whether he acted alone or not in the beginning. If the CDC was paying Gallo to help them cover up pharmaceutical deaths, that certainly would have been a lot of risk and effort for a few deaths of some homosexuals and drug users, which wouldn't cause much public outrage. One scenario could have been that some sincere people at the CDC believed in Gallo's fraudulent work....and this was also during a "virus fad" in medicine, so perhaps that made it more believable.

The other scenario is that the CDC conspired to fool the public into believing there is a global plague, and Gallo was part of that plan. It's possible, but this is a risky plan and you have to convince a lot of scientists. No matter how it began exactly, once the lie gained momentum, many groups had interests in stoking it, that's for sure.

I wonder if anyone's ever dug up evidence of the CDC trying to create a plague scare before 1984?
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