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9/11 Audio: Twin Towers Built for Demo
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Christophera



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 1851
Location: Santa Barbara

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, that WTC core piece onto WTC 3 image didn't make it. I'm still looking for the image from a chopper taken looking down into the hole created in WTC 3 that shows a pile of gravel in the center.


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Info specific to WTC 1 via the documentary, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers". WTC 2 had differences in its concrete core.
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8211

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the same inconclusive images you
have been posting over and over and over again.

Always asserting that the dust hides a concrete wall.
Always asserting steel core columns are just guide rails.

Quote:
Now the substantial evidence for a steel reinforced cast concrete rectangular tubular core.

WTC 2 core standing at + 400 feet.


Sorry, that's not proof the core has solid walls of concrete.

Quote:
A corner of the top of the WTC 2 concrete core, the brownish surfaces, surrounded by broken perimeter walls falling onto the roof of WTC 3


I see the perimeter walls and the brownish stuff.
Sorry, brownish stuff is not proof the core has solid walls of concrete.

Quote:
WTC 1 spire with sloping concrete silhouetted behind the interior box columns located outside the north side of the core as seen at ground zero outside, to the left of the concrete core wall at its base.


Sorry, I see sloping dust - not solid a concrete wall.

Quote:
Note, no steel core columns to the right of the spire in the core area.

Possibly because the rest of the building has fallen down.

Quote:
The spire from the north with an end view of the broken western concrete core wall. Note, no steel core columns to the left of the concrete wall.


I don't see a broken concrete wall.
I just see concrete dust still falling..

Quote:
From the north east with the concrete core walls sloping and silhouetting the interior box columns. Note, no steel core columns behind in the core area.


Sorry, I see sloping dust - not solid a concrete wall.
Again, has it occurred to you that the steel columns are
missing because the rest of the building has fallen down?

I could go on, but I will end by saying that the main reason
you have failed to persuade is the over-reliance on these
images that are totally inconclusive.

The other reasons are the lack of firm evidence, the lack of a valid
explanation of how the concrete cores could fit in the floor area,
and a constantly-changing story which has destroyed credibility.

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S.N.A.F.U.



Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe this is LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE of a CONCRETE CORE at least in WTC1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dWBBEtA5bI

This large section of the concrete core wall can be viewed in three different pieces of film (I found it in a 2nd series in the above video tonight)...one still aerial image and two motion videos, one shot from behind the Woolworth Building and the other shot directly behind WTC7. The exact location of this large piece of the concrete core can clearly be seen and verified by analyzing all three pieces of corroborating EVIDENCE.

VIEW #1:
A HUGE piece of what can ONLY be concrete...NOT DUST...NOT A CLOUD...is clearly visible at 0.17-0.18 seconds, viewed from an angle behind the Woolworth Building which is roughly about 45 degrees to the east off the north face of WTC1. Here it is marked inside a red rectangle.


VIEW #2:
This very same piece of concrete core wall is also captured at 0.42 - 0.44 seconds of that same video as the Woolworth shot. The view is from directly behind and just off the western corner of the WTC7 building, at approximately the same height as the roof of that building and also roughly the same elevation as the Woolworth shot, nearly horizontal with the top of the core section being filmed. Here it is marked inside a red rectangle. Note the exact same toppling motion as was seen in VIEW #1:


VIEW #3:
This is a still aerial photo which is also marked to show the angles of the other two views mentioned above for correlation. There is CLEAR correlation of the position, movement, size, shape, and location of this massive object which displays properties of being a SOLID FORM that holds it's shape and has distinct edges that are maintained during motion. There is NO WAY this can be construed as "smoke"...or "dust" and it can't be anything other than concrete. To deny this is beyond logic...IMHO.

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Christophera



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 1851
Location: Santa Barbara

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stairwell notion cannot stand with the proportions of what is seen. That triangular piece falling into the core is way too big to be a stairwell, the wrong shape, and visibly far too structural to be a set of stairs.
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Info specific to WTC 1 via the documentary, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers". WTC 2 had differences in its concrete core.
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Christophera



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 1851
Location: Santa Barbara

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan wrote:
These are the same inconclusive images you
have been posting over and over and over again.


What is conclusive is that there are no images from 9-11 showing the steel core columns and logically the core of columns is the strongest part with many cross braces. All never seen, not even as wreakage at GZ.

So perhaps the choise is to percieve no conclusive evidence, but at least there is evidence and we know there was a core.

If espousing demo, a detailed explanation of how the supposed steel core columns was cut so that NONE are seen is an obligation of reason. Feasibility must be shown.

Or, aliens did it, and it was all in our head. No planes, no TV, no towers, . nada. This text doesn't even exist.

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Info specific to WTC 1 via the documentary, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers". WTC 2 had differences in its concrete core.
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Hombre



Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 967

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan writes:

Quote:
It is closing because regardless of my own feeling about this,
I have enough experience to make the call that this theory
would fail to convince serious 9/11 researchers.


My only closing comment comes in the form of a question:

Who are, and where are all of these SERIOUS 9/11 RESEARCHERS?

I have many other questions but have been reluctant to ask them for personal reasons, I've been low to the ground so to speak.

My Father passed away this month, He's accounted for much of my time, especially these past two months. Did I ever mention that he began his working career with the FBI? Sorry another question.

I've an Uncle 30 plus year, career Army Intelligence. 3 Masters+ 1 or 2 PHD's I forget, Blah blah blah, not important in the grand scheme of things, but when it comes to being serious about something maybe we should define the word serious in terms all can grasp.

Hombre'
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tellytell



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: 9/11 - The Verdict Reply with quote

......the posting of the negative energy toward conscious truth seeking through secrecy and destruction of evidence reveals its own clue!

The hiding and rejection of people sincere about truth and research is its own clue, and should be recognized as progress...

After having thus struggled, and sweat “blood,” we now lie exhausted and at the same time blissfully free. For we have come to realize, through this process itself, that if the message of Hip Hop is to be perfected (which actually means wholly completed), it will only be so in that moment where “all possible expression of the infinite range of human experience” happens simultaneously.

We have been blessed with the guidance of seeing that this seemingly impossible moment is actually the reality of our happening, all of our happenings; and although at the beginning of our search for truth we viewed our attempt to achieve the perfect Hip Hop message as a problem, we now see, through the miracle of life itself, that not only is the medium the message, but the problem is the solution.

Marshall McLuhan also said that the “answers are always inside the problem, not outside.” We have learned that the “problem” or the “question” is the solution or answer, in a form, the main import of which, is signifying that the person or persons facing the problem or asking the question are qualified or ready to see the solution or receive the answer.

In this case, the question was asked by Chris, and he IS qualified to see the solution, his right views have to do with a "truth process". And in this situation where the truth has been blown up,
hidden and oddly rejected unordinarily motivated people who show no respect for truth process and present no sincere effort to connect the dots while only
destroying the positive environment of those true efforts doing good....

Closing the forum is the wrong move for many many reasons... because when can anyone evere do anything about "the timing".... The results of
this effort here have produced great change in the lives of all who have seen it......

THE TRUE TRUTH SEEKERS HERE (CHRIS AND THOSE SUPPORTING) serve as an ever arising and expanding foundation upon which PEOPLE can involve THEMSELVES IN to better come together AS A TRUTH PROCESS NOT OF THE SPACE ATOMIC BEEM CROWD WHCH HAS BEEN MISLED. And the tactics they use to mislead ARE a big clue!

THESE CONCRETE CORE TRUTH SEEKERS HAVE practiced kind and professional actions of body, speech and mind; and HAVE aimed to add value to your current process directly or indirectly.

When we view the generations before us, and their building of America, we see that "getting there," was all the fun. What’s left is the
cultural and artistic ashes of that endeavor. We want to build the new continent, alive from within,
never forgetting that all conclusions are provisional, and as such are only working models.
Corporations are not persons, they are groups of people using the social contract to gain advantage to exploit the rest of the people and they should not have a right to free speech and they should not be assumed innocent until proven guilty. Truth and accountability is the least that can be demanded.

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Gamolon



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 1408

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

S.N.A.F.U. wrote:
I believe this is LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE of a CONCRETE CORE at least in WTC1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dWBBEtA5bI

This large section of the concrete core wall can be viewed in three different pieces of film (I found it in a 2nd series in the above video tonight)...one still aerial image and two motion videos, one shot from behind the Woolworth Building and the other shot directly behind WTC7. The exact location of this large piece of the concrete core can clearly be seen and verified by analyzing all three pieces of corroborating EVIDENCE.

VIEW #1:
A HUGE piece of what can ONLY be concrete...NOT DUST...NOT A CLOUD...is clearly visible at 0.17-0.18 seconds, viewed from an angle behind the Woolworth Building which is roughly about 45 degrees to the east off the north face of WTC1. Here it is marked inside a red rectangle.


VIEW #2:
This very same piece of concrete core wall is also captured at 0.42 - 0.44 seconds of that same video as the Woolworth shot. The view is from directly behind and just off the western corner of the WTC7 building, at approximately the same height as the roof of that building and also roughly the same elevation as the Woolworth shot, nearly horizontal with the top of the core section being filmed. Here it is marked inside a red rectangle. Note the exact same toppling motion as was seen in VIEW #1:


VIEW #3:
This is a still aerial photo which is also marked to show the angles of the other two views mentioned above for correlation. There is CLEAR correlation of the position, movement, size, shape, and location of this massive object which displays properties of being a SOLID FORM that holds it's shape and has distinct edges that are maintained during motion. There is NO WAY this can be construed as "smoke"...or "dust" and it can't be anything other than concrete. To deny this is beyond logic...IMHO.


So you think that Chris' concrete walls are legit huh? From those blurry photos and movie shots?

I'll ask you a couple of questions.

Here is a photo of the two columns that Chris says "sandwiched" the concrete wall between them.


Can you please explain to me how that gypsum planking in the red rectangle got there? Was it encased in the concrete? Lastly, how in the world did that weak gypsum planking survive the detonated concrete let alone the falling debris. Notice the other planking pointed out by the red arrows that went around the stairwell.

Yeah, there was concrete there.

Laughing

I just love how Chris says he supposedly gets all his information from the documentary that he cannot find, yet that same information changes as people find evidence against his so-called theory. Did the information in that documentary change since he saw it last? How is that possible?

What about the Mr. Hill "little white lie"? In the beginning of Chris' theory, Mr. Hill saw the same documentary. Then all of a sudden, when he was questioned/back into a corner about it, it comes out that it was a DIFFERENT documentary and NOT the same one. Funny that.

What about the fact that Chris was all about the tower cores being the same in the beginning of his preaching and then when the heat was turned up and evidence came out against his theory (express elevator location), he comes up with the redesign aspect. When was this redesigned information found out? From what source? Obviously he didn't know that in the beginning because he never mentions it at all. Not one word about the towers being different. Why did he all of a sudden add the documentary disclaimer to his posts about the documentary being about WTC1 only? His reasons in the beginning for the delay in construction was because of the mechanics of pouring the concrete walls and that they changed them because they found a better, faster way to pour them. NOT because the folks renting the towers found the access of WTC1 bad.

How many times are we going to change the wall thickness dimensions Chris?

How many times are we going to find you changing your story as to the concrete encasing the columns at the base of the towers? One minute they were encased, the next miute they aren't.

How many mistakes have you admitted to? You've made mistakes in your photo examinations, dimensional mistakes, you've contrdicted yourself NUMEROUS times. All because you've told so many lies over the years that you can't keep your story straight. It's so PAINFULLY obvious. All anyone need to do is go back to when you started and see the evolution of your story. It's sad really.

Fintan, thanks for the sounding board and putting up with us for such a long time.
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tellytell



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:09 am    Post subject: the message of Hip Hop.... Reply with quote

the message of 911 truth is that unity and respect for truth seeking from ALL points of view is not going to happen.

Ever since hip hop became, artists have never bought into the abuse and protection of secrecy by those like we see on these forums. Who want exactness from truth seekers but never expect an end to secrecy and hiding by the powers that be who are manipulating everything into the ground!

Is hip hop the only community that has been so involved in the true investigation that things like the concrete core are just another example of what these powers are up to, and the evidence that we have is really everything that ever happened?



What do you think the human cry out to stop the killing will look like?

Keep the Forum Open!

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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8211

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


S.N.A.F.U.
A HUGE piece of what can ONLY be concrete...NOT DUST
...NOT A CLOUD...is clearly visible at 0.17-0.18 seconds

The collapse sequence has many shots like this.
Showing pieces of the facade or debris falling away,
often with their own integral clouds of dust.
It's not conclusive.

Quote:
Hombre:
Who are, and where are all of these SERIOUS 9/11 RESEARCHERS?

Serious researchers are those who have experience of the issues;
who have done considerable independent research; and especially who
are open to argument and to evaluating their own bullshit critically.

There are thousands of them globally. All over forums on the net.

There are also tens of thousands of opinionated idiots.
The CIA Fakes love the idiots. Need them, actually.

Quote:
tellytell:
Closing the forum is the wrong move for many many reasons...


Closing the forum??? Eh?
I am closing this thread after eighteen months of failure to
present substantive evidence and after Chris destroyed
his credibility by dogmatic insistence and by changing his
story to try deflect the major holes found in it.

If there was even the remotest possibility there is value in
the concrete core idea I would keep the thread open. But at
this stage the theory has been destroyed by good criticism
to which Chris has had no good answers.

The theory is history.
That's where we are at.
Time to move on to issues of substance.

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They only function when open.


Last edited by Fintan on Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gamolon



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 1408

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: 9/11 - The Verdict Reply with quote

tellytell wrote:
THESE CONCRETE CORE TRUTH SEEKERS HAVE practiced kind and professional actions of body, speech and mind; and HAVE aimed to add value to your current process directly or indirectly.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

aAzzAa wrote:
Well good for you fuckstain.


Hombre wrote:
Pull your head from your arse! The misrepresent a bracket/perlin for a damper. The kind of crap you spew!


aAzzAa wrote:
You're an idiot. Or at least they pay you double time to be one.Very Happy


Christophera wrote:
You really are a sweet nutcase though, unlike gam who is simply a deceptive weasel and contributes nothing except yapping like a deranged photoshopper at nice guys like us.


aAzzAa wrote:
Ya Fukkin Cunt...I can guarentee that I will never see you calling for the truth re the 9/11 fiasco.


Yeah, they sure did practice kind and professionally.

Laughing

You guys crack me up.

"The poor, kind, helpful, truth seekers. Doing things for the good of all and always getting spit on."

Spare me. And before you go off on the "you did it also" rant, I admit that I acted in the same way. But for you to lay down this "righteous, kind, and professional" label on Chris and his supporting cast, I suggest you go back and read. The quotes above are but a small sampling of their "kind and professional" ways.

By the way aAzzAa. You wanted proof of your "belittling ways" right? Have a look above.

Wink
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Gamolon



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 1408

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aAzzAa, I'll answer a couple of your questions for you.

1. Do I believe that the blueprints that were leaked are real?

Yes I do. Why? Because I can match evry single one of them to the photos during construction, after construction, from 9/11, interior, and exterior.

I can also match them to eyewitness descriptions. What you fail to understand is that I have yet to find one anamoly between the blueprints and visual or verbal evidence.

What does that mean? It means that if the blueprints that were leaked WERE fake, why do they match everything? There should be verifiable differences everywhere. Especially with the kind of crap Chris says supposedly existed.

2. What is my stance on the 9/11 situation? As of right now, I don't have a stance as I haven't researched all aspects of it yet. In my opinion, I am not well versed in all the other aspects to debate in a reasonable manner. I may have laid down a few things previously, but have found that I need to learn more. People have brought uo good points that don't have a good answer to and need to research a bit.

Do I think our govenrment is capable of doing such things? Of course. Have they done terrible things in the past? I'm sure they have. Do I trust them? Not as far as I can throw them.

So yeah. I will continue to look into the conspiracy aspects and come to a conclusion about them. If that isn't good enough for anyone here, I don't know what else to say.
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