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Robert



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 406

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Camera Business Reply with quote

Odd little one coming in....

Control of photography in public space...

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Photography/

Quote:
Knapster Pro User says:

This came via a photography tutor of mine.

Please read and sign the related petition if so moved:

The UK Govt are about to propose restrictions on photography in
public places which could make street photography and documentary
photography against the law.

The petition reads:

"There are a number of moves promoting the requirement of 'ID' cards to allow photographers to operate in a public place.

It is a fundamental right of a UK citizen to use a camera in a public place, indeed there is no right to privacy when in a public place.

These moves have developed from paranoia and only promote suspicion towards genuine people following their hobby or profession."

The URL of the petition in question is HERE


http://www.flickr.com/groups/publicspace/discuss/72157594545167404/

Quote:
view profile
Briggate.com Pro User says:

It is useful to know your rights. The following is a short (2 page) article explaining them

www.sirimo.co.uk/media/UKPhotographersRights.pdf

UK photographers might want to print the article out and keep it in their camera bags. Also useful when challenged is to have a few postcard-sized examples of your photos. It helps to keep ones tone friendly.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/publicspace/discuss/72157594545851734/

Quote:
The UK Government is about to propose restrictions on photography in public places which could make street photography and documentary photography against the law. These proposed changes to the law could result in photographers having to apply for ID cards in order to take pictures in a public places.
The consequences of these proposed restrictions to the fields of documentary and street photography could be hugely damaging, potentially wiping out an entire area of photographic practice and certainly provoking suspicion around people simply carrying out their profession or hobby. The number of iconic photographers whose work would have been severely challenged by these moves is endless. With such limitations and procedures placed on them photographers such as Diane Arbus, Walker Evans, Garry Winogrand, Ed Ruscha, Brassai, Robert Frank, Cartier-Bresson, Bill Brandt, Stephen Shore and William Eggleston would perhaps not have been able to make the work for which they are now internationally recognised.
A petition has been lodged on the UK government's website which you can sign if you would like to voice your concerns about these proposals. Click here to go straight through to the petition.
http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/blogon/2007/02/uk_government_plans_to_restric_1.php

Can't find this phantom bill itself....

But groundwork...
The petition sponsor:
http://www.phooto.co.uk/rights.shtml

and his angst
http://www.epuk.org/News/472/npower-injunction-on-epuk-member

nice photo to finish...


Have they learnt how to manipulate these Downing Street petitions ?
ID ...photography...let's watch.

Comments requested.

Robert Mr. Green
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Nat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it appears they have found a way to manipulate these petitions, as well as manipulate the average person's point of view of same - the type who will have only heard of the road pricing petition...your reply (necessary to get your signature confirmed) will usually go into your junkmail box, and will very often never actually arrive

and even when a petition exceeds millions of signatories, they just wheel out some berk who mumbles about engagement (translation: we don't care wtf you people want, this is a democracy and we're going to reassure you and continue with the exact plan we always had)

still signed it though Wink

no reply yet from the photography petition, not even in my junkmail folder...seems likely to me that the road pricing petition was almost certainly a psyop, millions signed, and they all most likely got their confirmation emails within about a half second (i did on that one)...the system works ! ...no it fucking doesn't
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Janama



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 410
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so what are Japanese tourists going to do??

I was sitting in the park under the Sydney Harbour Bridge, there's a great fish'n chip shop there, and a bus pulled up with about 20 Japanese tourists.

They all jumped out and started lining up for photographs. Once everyone had had their photo taken they returned to the bus and drove off.

I watched them all the time and not one of them actually stopped and looked up at the magnificent bridge Very Happy
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telecasterisation



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you accept that there will be scenarios where unrestricted photography will be offensive and people will be justifiably and morally incensed?

For example, you have young children and a man walks up and starts taking pictures of them.

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Robert



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 406

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For example, you have young children and a man walks up and starts taking pictures of them.


The level of intelligence on this forum is well above this argument.
I'd be in confrontation mode if someone took photos of .....my mother in law....in the social space that is english mannerisms.

Perhaps we should discuss Rape and Paedophilia...how prevalent is it and in what scenario?
It is just as manipulated as any other public subject.


This is a direct quote from Rachel from NorthLondon's blog on rape....
Quote:
If I were a rapist, this weekend I would go out as usual, nicely dressed, with my mates. I would look for the laughing girl enjoying herself in a bar, wearing pretty clothes, having some drinks with her friends, throwing back her head and dancing, smiling into the faces of everyone she sees, high on life and her own attractiveness. I would buy her some drinks, lots of them, make sure everyone saw us talking and I would kiss her in full view of people in the room, I would tell her she was beautiful, and leave with my arm round her shoulders, telling her I would love to get her number. I would offer to find her a taxi, or I would invite her to somewhere to join me, maybe a nice bar, maybe a party, and I would take care, when I raped her, not to injure her or to tear her clothes. Or not much, just enough to excuse it as passionate rough sex. I would use a condom, to minimise DNA evidence.

When she complained, when she cried, when she begged me to stop, I would tell her to shut up, that she was asking for it,what did she expect, dressed like that, drunk like that, to stop whinging because it would be over soon, and you've had sex before, haven't you? So what's the big deal? And I'd tell her to keep still, don't scream, don't fight, or you'll be sorry, I'll really hurt you if you do. Just take it girl, you wanted it all along.

And afterwards, I'd tell her she could try to take it to court if she wanted, and see if she felt lucky. The odds of a successful rape prosecution are less than 5%. About 50,000 women are raped every year. Yeah, yeah, the police are nice to you when you report it now, girlie. But wait til the defence gets started on you. You haven't got a prayer.

I could probably do that every couple of weeks if I wanted, and never get caught.

It's Friday night tomorrow. Someone's probably looking forward to the weekend tonight, making plans. And someone else will have a weekend they'll never forget.


this came to me from surfing through Matt and Dale's postings at other forums (during the Fintan/Alex Jones periodic)and i was somewhat shocked by this woman's inability to see this is her fantasy of rape, by her misunderstanding of what men are like and her dismissal of the evidence of where most rape occurs(and as such the scale of it).




............




Quote:
there's a great fish'n chip shop there


nice interlude Janama,i've a friend who spent Christmas in Sydney and when he got back to London he did rave about the fish Very Happy

Robert

Mr. Green


Last edited by Robert on Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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telecasterisation



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert's philippic included;

'The level of intelligence on this forum is well above this argument.'


It is interesting that having dismissed the 'argument' due to the level of intelligence, we are exposed to a diatribe on rape.

My sister-in-law was on holiday in 2001 in Cornwall. Her kids were on the beach, she had two then, one was 3, the other 5, both girls. A man started taking pictures in a roundabout way capturing them by including them in generic landscape images. He got more daring and strated filling the frame, she asked him to stop - he refused stating it was a public place.

At that moment her husband returned from the water, there was a brief exchange of words and the photographer was hit in the face. He suffered a broken jaw and lost a few teeth. Her husband was arrested and being his first offence it culminated in him being fined, his sentence of three months inside being suspended plus 70 hours of community service.

I don't believe that this is an 'argument', it is a case of someone having the legal right to ask for it to stop and the camera owner doing so.

Yes, photographers' have rights, but so too should those without the camera.

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Robert



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 406

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Storm in a teacup...nice full moon,sir

Quote:
No.10 petition fuels photo rights confusionFebruary 22, 2007
Chris Cheesman

A photographer's Downing Street petition against 'proposed restrictions' on rights to take pictures in public has confused many into wrongly believing that the government is planning such a move. It seems that the petition was largely fuelled by a photo enthusiast's idea to launch a self-styled ID Card and has nothing to do with future government policy whatsoever.

The 'e-petition' was set up by Hampshire-based photographer Simon Taylor and – at the time of writing – had been signed by more than 11,000 people.

However, the petition's wording has confused some photographers, who have contacted AP fearing that the government was planning to announce new restrictions on photography in public, such as the need to carry an ID card.

Clarifying the government's position a Home Office spokesman said he was not aware of government plans requiring photographers to carry an ID card while operating in a public place.

The petition – which was set up on 14 February - states: 'We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Stop proposed restrictions regarding photography in public places.'

AP has discovered that the fuss stems from a suggestion put forward by David Kessel, publicity secretary for the Southern Photographic Federation. He told us that he had suggested the idea of carrying an ID card when taking photos in public, part of which indicates that he is a bona fide non-commercial photographer.

Kessel said that he put forward his idea to the Photographic Alliance of Great Britain (PAGB) in the hope that the card could be carried by PAGB members. It is understood that Kessel's suggestion was also forwarded to other clubs.

But he told us that the PAGB rejected his suggestion and that he has now virtually abandoned the idea.

He had not expected that his proposal would lead to a petition on the Downing Street website, which he had no role in drawing up.

A similar idea is being considered by the Royal Photographic Society (RPS) but nothing has yet been decided.

The RPS's director general Stuart Blake today told us that any such initiative would aim to 'help photographers as a whole' – including both amateurs and professionals.

Taylor, who is a professional photographer, opposes any suggestion from clubs that enthusiasts should carry with them an 'ID card' that outlines their rights to capture non-commercial images, such as those for competitions, for example.

He doesn't see why non-professionals should have more rights than professional photographers, journalists or members of the public.

He believes such a card would restrict its carrier to taking pictures only for non-commercial purposes.

Responding to the confusion that the Downing Street petition has aroused Taylor has now posted a message on his website stating:
'I have been inundated with requests for details regarding the petition I have started at the Number 10 e-petition site…. I have not said that a bill is in preparation, or that legislation is being prepared, but am referring to the ID cards proposed by various bodies which will serve to create an 'uber class' of photographer, and restrict the use of cameras by normal citizens. These cards will only further the suspicion and misunderstandings that many photographers already suffer.'




http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/No10_petition_fuels_photo_rights_confusion_news_110568.html

Still,if you did want to push an agenda for ID cards,having photographers carry them so that people could easily distinguish them from paedophiles would be some sort of argument.

And typically it would never address the real issues about paedophilia,its habits,prevalence and a social cure,apart from it's always someone else and they need to be locked up.
I quoted rape piece because it was an example of the sort of standard thinking on a nervy topic like paedophilia.Neither are ever dealt with honestly.

The description of an apparent miscourse of justice at the beach seems to misunderstand my reply concerning the fact that someone taking close up photos of anyone including a mother in law is seen certainly in the UK as socially being offensive unless there is consent of some form.

Still watching

Robert

Mr. Green


Last edited by Robert on Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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telecasterisation



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert wrote:
No comment in reply to telecasterisation.

Robert


Agreed.

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