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money myth$ : $alvation i$land
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Jeroen



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mr. Oliver, we're going to build you a house that you will be proud to live and will keep your dignity as a banker.

I see that Oliver actually does get his house and his other needs for free. But here the story loses its correspondence with reality, since bankers make a living by charging interest, not because people work for them for free.
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Christopher Brooks
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article on my web site has a very relevant discussion debating the merit of credit creation for a Government's financing needs.

This article is a very rare statement by a text book on the subject of credit creation.

http://www.brooksuncensored.com/BrooksUncensoredMoneyFinance.html
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DrewTerry
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christopher Brooks wrote:
This article on my web site has a very relevant discussion debating the merit of credit creation for a Government's financing needs.

This article is a very rare statement by a text book on the subject of credit creation.


Rarer still has got to be such a statement saying nothing intended to sound like it said lots more than nothing.

I cannot agree with you or the article or your web site - at all.

First is no clear statement in the thread, and to reference in the article to which you refer; first dead giveaway and I should have left it at that because I have seen your site before and cannot get over by how - useless? It is - USELESS!


The statement made by the author is just as vague and useless, about the current policy - to borrow from central banks vs~ printing money on their own. The 'arguments' that go with it are severely choked, limited mad-libs versions of the credit and finance debates since the Federal Reserve was signed into law on 12/23/1913. (What? Embarassed Me Worry?)

Arrow Unless I am missing something else not stated, this book and this site are brooksian pure kiwi propaganda. :Cool
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Christopher Brooks
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrewTerry, the article I referenced was not my opinion.

The reason I have it on my site is because it conceeds that credit creation is an option. Most polititians and economists do not even conceed that money is created from nothing when debt is created.

Thanks for the "useless" judgement on my site.

Have you been to diplomacy school recently!

My site is in fact very incomplete but it was constructed to publish my correspondence with my local MP on the 9-11 and terrorism related issues. The rest is simply to hint at the subjects of importance for any understanding of the political realities at this time
I hope to make my site active at some time in the future when I am better resourced.

I have a very good knowledge of Douglas Social Credit and undoubtedly the solutions to the current dominance of the policy of monopoly
depend on this knowledge expanding.

DrewTerry, I suspect you might well be allergic to some truth that may have been hinted at on my site.

My site is in fact very useful in sorting out the useful from the pretenders.

I am in fact very happy with it's results.
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Excuse me, myth... Reply with quote

Drew Terry wrote:
Argumentative posts based on Cent$-less ideology are not for this forum and do not deserve attention or refutation.


Hey Drew,

With all due respect, I don't think Jeroen is being overly argumentative. In fact, I'm kind of interested in what he has to say -

Maybe I'm easily beguiled by a spreadsheet, but his argument seems to make sense. Oliver does gotta eat.

I'm not saying I think 'the banksters' are off the hook, or fiat currency is great, or that I even understand what the hell we're really talking about.

I'm just saying it's a complicated issue, and I'm not sure what this salvation island thing is really saying, and I'd like to understand how monetization and currency valuation actually works. This story may be a helpful starting point, but the fact is, we don't live on an island, and things aren't that simple.

Real life is impossibly fucking complicated.

That's exactly why we wrassle with the difficult, misunderstood, emotionally charged issues here at TNL - cause that's where the social manipulation takes place in the minds of you and me.

I think we all agree that there are parasitic elements in the financial community, and that the little guy gets screwed on a regular basis. I just think it's worth discussing the merits of this financial parable, cause it's got legs on the internet, and it endorses an understanding that is consistently promoted in the tinfoil community, namely, "Banksters are responsible for social inequality, because they make money out of 'thin air', and then use it to economically enslave the rest of the world." This implies that as soon as the world 'wakes up' from this scam and runs the banksters off our island, we can all hold hands and sing 'We are the World', and I think that might be a dangerous and short sighted assumption.

Sure, I'd like to see things a little less unequal and screwed up, but I have yet to read a piece of disinformation that didn't offer to reveal the truth behind what was 'really wrong with the world'. Re-framing one issue as another, something a little easier to 'intuitively' understand, is a very common characteristic in literature designed to obfuscate rather than clarify.

I'm curious as to whom this Oliver character would be analogous in real life? Bank manager, VP, President? Does this story actually describe an identifiable group of people in society performing some sort of actual fraud? I ran across this story a few years ago, and I never felt like it really explained the 'money myth' to my satisfaction.

Does this story really describe 'our problem' , and accurately identify the cause, or does it simply re-frame actual social injustice and divert blame to a conceptual patsy known as the 'bankster'?

I feel it's worth a little deeper look, if only to satisfy my own curiosity.


Jeroen wrote:
The mistake here is that Oliver needs "produce" from the others as well. Suppose every inhabitant, including Oliver, buys and sells each year for $80--$16 per customer. Then Oliver will get his interest (his "produce"), and the others will still have $200 at the end of the year--nothing changes. Any amount bigger than $16 will allow the debtors to repay their loan--while keeping their $200--and any amount smaller than $16 will increase the loan.



Jeroen,

I see what you're getting at, and I appreciate your points. I think Oliver's need for 'produce' is a glaring inconsistency in the salvation island equation.

I think a thorough analysis of anything that purports to expose the truth is a very next level excercise, and perhaps this discussion can lead to a deeper understanding of monetization and currency value.

Seems you know more about this stuff than I - did you study economics formally? I won't ask if you're a banker... Wink

I've been on the fence about the money island parable, but I haven't really known why, other than the fact that it deals with a pretty murky, misunderstood topic.

So, I'd be interested in your take on the story. Do you think the inconsistencies foster a misunderstanding about how money really 'works'?

Do you think the author was aware of the inconsistencies between real life and salvation island?

Do you think it's deliberate disinfo or some sort of financial conspiracy smokescreen?

If so, any speculation as to the purpose? Who might benefit from spreading a potentially inaccurate view money mechanics?

Thanks for your input.
Cheers!
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Christopher Brooks
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just imagine if "distance", ""number units", "weight" or even "page numbers" were monopolised and the creation was restricted as an instrument to control others.
Most would consider this insanity - yet our system of storing and measuring our wealth, ie money, though infinite in reality like "page numbers" and having no real wealth baring the administrative and organisational aspects, is manipulated and controled by private interests for their enrichment and power.
A bank should be a service provider like a draftsmen or engineeer who records exactly the statistics of the economic activity of the society.
The "banker" rightly deserves his just income for the important service of administration.
The Money Trickery is in the claim of ownership over the effort, assets and plans of real wealth producers by monetising these real things with "debt" facilities that are created out of nothing because the banker takes possession of the real wealth as security.
The interest component must be paid but is never created.
This means the debt can never be paid back.
The debt must expand for the economy to avoid collapse.
The banker can create infinite quantities of "debt" for individuals and governments as long as new real wealth is surrendered as security.
Power inevitably concentrates in the hands of those who control and assist the money trickery.
The power over credit creation is the centre of the Global Power Complex.
Money is a subject buried in confusion.
Hitler's Germany understood the value of controling the money supply to serve the real material capacity of a society.
While most of the world waded in deep economic depression in the thirties Germany was booming with development. Germany rejected the controll of "international "finance which is essentially a "jewish" domain.
The "Holocaust" hoax was put in place to hide the economic miracle of Germany when it created it's own money supply.
Any study of the history of money will involve a study of the "Jewish" question. Cleverly the Money Monopolists maintain their fear weapons to ensure the subject is never widely understood.
Anyone who truthfully follows the evidence discovers that the knowledge of economic freedom is trapped behind layers of propaganda trickery that destroy rational thinking with emotive fear.
Break for News appears to be a very sophisticated part of the deception as free speech is not permitted on all subjects on this site.
Throughout all of history the ideas and theories that have needed laws and rules for protection have all been eventually exposed as lies.
Who does this site really serve?
Fintane is very particular about the "fakes" that he exposes.
The Auschwitz "gassing" fakery stands between the slavery and the freedom of mankind.
Fintane and Break for News seem to support the slavery of myths.
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rustyh



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 489
Location: A Wonderful World

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Break for News appears to be a very sophisticated part of the deception as free speech is not permitted on all subjects on this site.
Throughout all of history the ideas and theories that have needed laws and rules for protection have all been eventually exposed as lies.
Who does this site really serve?
Fintane is very particular about the "fakes" that he exposes.
The Auschwitz "gassing" fakery stands between the slavery and the freedom of mankind.
Fintane and Break for News seem to support the slavery of myths.


Brooksy.
PLEASE EXPLAIN???
When and where cant you have your 'free speech'?
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8217

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just that ol' holocaust thingie again rusty...... yawn.

We gave 'em pages 'n pages of ranting space, on that.
It's been done. Done to death. It's history and it's still
in the forum if anybody wants it.

But as the Jews apparently run everything, then unless you
totally buy that discrediting CIA bullshit - you must be in on it... lol
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Continuity



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1716
Location: Municipal Flat Block 18A, Linear North

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezus Christ, I'm all for everyone being allowed to have their own opinions and free speech and all that, but now I'm absolutely *convinced* that every time this Brooks guy hears or reads words like 'gas chamber', 'gassing', 'holocaust', he gets a lump in his trousers.

A man obsessed - utterly - I bet you couldn't even have a conversation about the weather with this guy without him spouting off about (non) gassings etc. - really - I reckon he's that far gone, TBH.

_________________
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Touch my tail, I shred your hand.
New rule tomorrow.

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Nat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm

Salvation Island is NOT a reference to Israel :roll:

BfN is a whore to 'yiddishism' ?...complete bunkum i say

hellllllo...Jews, Gypsies, Disabled, Homosexuals, Poles, Russian soldiers and sundry
others were killed in large numbers in the short lived German empire of the 20th century...for
fuxsake, who's quibbling over numbers, the fact is it happened to some degree or other.
anyone who has problems getting that needs to get over that


Last edited by Nat on Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Christopher Brooks
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintane, what are you now suggesting is "discrediting CIA bullshit"?

Try and be clear in your answer for the record.

You have been vague on this question all along.

What in fact are you promoting?

Are you suggesting the "gassing" of millions of "Jews" is propaganda or are you suggesting the evidence supports this thesis?

Wouldn't it be useful for the criminals that are destroying with their wars,
lies and money trickery to have lots of "fakery" "experts" who ignore the deeper levels of their political power games but provide lots of juicy and colourful distractions.

I look forward to some clear explanation from Fintane.
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Fintan
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8217

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm saying that the conflation of the 9/11 issue and the Holocaust
is a gambit to paint those who question the official 9/11 story as:

"the same kind of jew-hating lunatics who disbelieve the Holocaust"

I'm saying that this linking of the two issues is an agency-designed
discreditation gambit, promoted by professional disinfo artists who
are pissing themselves laughing at the resultant mayhem.

I'm saying I'm not that fucking stupid that I fall for it. Wink
I don't care whether it was 6 million were gassed or 5,946,251.

I saw that Jimmy Stewart movie where he was defending the rights
of Nazis to march in the street and say Hitler was a great guy. He said
that not to allow them do so, was to ironically bow to fascist impulses.

I'm saying he was damm right.

I'm also saying that if you want to set up a forum to debate that,
then I believe you have an invoilable free speech right to do so.

But I am also warning that if you walk into a bar and randomly pick
someone and insist they debate it with you, then they have an
equally invoilable right to tell you to fuck off. Smile

I'm saying that out of respect to demands on editorial principles of
reasonable free speech in a public forum, that I was happy to allow a
rather long and tedious topic all about the Holocaust on the forum.
And it was all said, and it's over. And it's still there.

I'm also saying that this is an economics topic.
Or to put it another way, I'd just like to have
a few quiet beers here dude.

Back to economics. Wink


Last edited by Fintan on Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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