Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[leon]

"Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner."

I have already suggested you to eat yours. That is going to be your contribution to clean environment

[Rom]

Leon
"My ass smells like roses.....My ass smells like roses...Ooops, it's not my ass, it's Chanel #5 "

It could be interesting to hear how you will defend Fukushima?
For me Fukushima seems more like a "Tokyo earthquake", a total disaster for Japan. They did not have the required competence for handling nuclear energy, and then they enriched uranium with it like idiots.

[leon]

It never helps using 50-year old design and obsolete machinery neither for safety nor for productivity. I hope Japan in their next nuclear project will use modern designs in cooperation with China and Russia.

Americans and Brits could suck on their ethanol from corn, keeps 'em drunk and happy.

[Rom]

Of course Japanese don't want another nuclear plant, modern or not.

Fukushima had 20? times more nuclear cores than Chernobyl, and everything is going to melt down, unlike for Chernobyl. That should be 40 times worse... in short distant from Tokyo. Since the Japanese do not have space like Soviet there is little they can do beyond evacuating 20 mill.people (worst case scenarion)...? But dying people will still have electricity, and engineers will say that's what matter ..

[leon]

No matter how painful and unfortunate the Fukushima accident was, much more people are going to die without nuclear power (or its better equivalent) either due to senseless and ruthless resource wars or just by sheer starvation.

I think Japan will endure like it always has.

[sushil_yadav]

Industrial Activity has decimated millions of species on earth.

Millions of species thrived on earth before Industrial activity came into existence.

In just 250 years Industrial Activity has destroyed what nature created in millions of years.

Industrial Activity has destroyed Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land .....the very things that created and sustained all life on earth.

Millions of species have already been decimated.....very soon it will be the turn of man to get decimated / wiped out.

[Rom]

Japanese put their pride into making worderful gardens. They took it for granted that culd be something beatiful for their children and grandchildren in all future. They did not expect their gardens some day to be radioactive - DANGER!

[leon]

Don't get stuck in the stone age - Noosphere

Noosphere ( /ˈnoʊ.ɵsfɪər/; sometimes noösphere), according to the thought of Vladimir Vernadsky denotes the "sphere of human thought". The word is derived from the Greek νοῦς (nous "mind") + σφαῖρα (sphaira "sphere"), in lexical analogy to "atmosphere" and "biosphere".

In the original theory of Vernadsky, the noosphere is the third in a succession of phases of development of the Earth, after the geosphere (inanimate matter) and the biosphere (biological life). Just as the emergence of life fundamentally transformed the geosphere, the emergence of human cognition fundamentally transforms the biosphere. In contrast to the conceptions of the Gaia theorists, or the promoters of cyberspace, Vernadsky's noosphere emerges at the point where humankind, through the mastery of nuclear processes, begins to create resources through the transmutation of elements.

One of the original aspects of the noosphere concept deals with evolution. Henri Bergson, with his L'évolution créatrice (1907), was one of the first to propose evolution is 'creative' and cannot necessarily be explained solely by Darwinian natural selection,

Living systems are dissipative structures that create internal order by expending energy in exchange for a local reduction in entropy. This is true at every level of biological organization and increasingly so the more abstract such order becomes within living systems. For instance, genes create an abstract information framework within which multicellular organisms may modify the topology of the epigenetic information state space in order to adapt and subsequently evolve. This may include changing the genes themselves that are involved in the abstract information framework or altering the manner in which these genes coordinate their activity. Nevertheless, as complexity and, therefore, order increases in biological systems, the amount of abstraction within that system also increases. This creates, in effect, an increase in information density. At the level of the brain, this abstraction becomes evident as the information structure known as the mind. Certain theories posit that such an ordering alters the information state of the surrounding environment such that, for ever decreasing levels of entropy, there is a net local entropy deficit or "information moment" impressed upon the surrounding environment by the extant local information structures. In this way, the mind, an abstract phenomenon seated in the physical substrate of the brain, may be capable of inducing a local entropic force that, when summed among many minds simultaneously, produces an even more amplified phenomenon known as the noosphere

That is exactly why we need one trillion people for our planet with their minds mostly dedicated to solving beautiful mysteries of the Universe; not doing pathetic subsistence potato farming on small swaths of land like this modern Aristocracy wants us to do.

[Rom]

LaRouche seems to have a special dislike for Greens (not the right kind of corrupt people or what?). His methods are intelligence, that can be interpreted as a very communist type of person or very right wing type. But as we know, Bolsheviks and right wing extremists mostly have the same masters, being financed by Wall St.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche
"U.S. sources told the Washington Post in 1985 that the LaRouche organization had assembled a worldwide network of government and military contacts, and that his researchers sometimes supplied information to government officials. Bobby Ray Inman, the CIA's deputy director in 1981 and 1982, said LaRouche and his wife had visited him offering information about ***the West German Green Party***, and a CIA spokesman said LaRouche met Deputy Director John McMahon in 1983 to discuss one of LaRouche's trips overseas"

[leon]

Vladimir Vernadsky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Vernadsky

Vladimir Ivanovich Vernadsky (Russian: Влади́мир Ива́нович Верна́дский, Ukrainian: Володимир Іванович Вернадський; 12 March [O.S. 28 February] 1863 – 6 January 1945) was a Ukrainian and Soviet mineralogist and geochemist who is considered one of the founders of geochemistry, biogeochemistry, and of radiogeology.[1] His ideas of noosphere were an important contribution to Russian cosmism. He also worked in Ukraine where he founded the National Academy of Science of Ukraine. He is most noted for his 1926 book The Biosphere in which he inadvertently worked to popularize Eduard Suess’ 1885 term biosphere, by hypothesizing that life is the geological force that shapes the earth. In 1943 he was awarded the Stalin Prize.

[sushil_yadav]

Industrial Society is a lunatic society that is trying to save environment not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing the technology.

Bring this technology, Bring that technology..........Bring this technology, Bring that technology.

A man is shooting someone with a gun........Some people are trying to save the victim.......They plead with the man asking him to save the victim by stopping the shooting.

The man says.....Don't worry......I will save him by changing technology......He replaces the old gun with a new one ........And continues to shoot.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ......

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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There is only one cause of environmental destruction.......Industrialization.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.......The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food.

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society of 7 billion has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after industrialization because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion.

An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion.

World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

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For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?

This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.

Poison kills people.....it doesn't matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It doesn't matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It doesn't matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems......Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.

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Discussion cannot save environment........Money cannot save environment......Technology cannot save environment......Environmental Organizations cannot save environment.......Activism cannot save environment.

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing environmental issues.

Animal species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment with money ........They had no money.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with modern technology........They had no modern technology......It was absence of modern technology that saved environment in pre-industrial societies........Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only because of Industrial Machines.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with the help of Environmental Organizations or Activism........They had no environmental organizations.

Animal Species did not destroy environment for millions of years.......Hunter Gatherer Society destroyed very little environment during a million years of existence......Agrarian Society destroyed very little environment [compared to Industrial Society] over a period of 10,000 years.

There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less......Minimize the list of things that are destroying environment.

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Promoters of Growth rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest terrorists on earth.......Millions of times bigger terrorists than Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Our society has placed a bounty of millions of dollars on the heads of Taliban and Al Qaeda

No bounty on the heads of people who promoted Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth???

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste that has contaminated and poisoned the entire planet......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated millions of animal and plant species......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement, concrete and asphalt......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated fish in the oceans......It was Industrial Fishing.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed millions of people in wars.......It was Military Industrial Complex.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.

For millions of years before industrialization the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.......Animals destroyed environment for food......Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment for food......Agrarian Society destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth.

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Environment has been destroyed by Cities.......Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers.........City People are doing extra work which has led to exponential "extra destruction of environment".......... Urban Dwellers are the destroyers of Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere.

For millions of years "searching for food" / “producing food” were the primary activities of animal species, hunter_gatherer society and agrarian society.........and that is why they sustained for millions of years because they destroyed very little environment compared to Industrial Society.......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for 100% of population and the remaining 50% living in cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of "thousands of consumer goods and services".

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population exists in this world.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is promoting Industrial Activity.

Industrial Activity is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Consumerism is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Destruction of environment is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

Most of the urban population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is urban......In Europe 80 – 90% of population is urban......this is why consumerism is so rampant in US and West.

World wide the percentage of urban population is about 50%.......If the entire world is made communist or socialist it is not going to stop/ reduce consumerism as long as the percentage of urban population remains the same.

As long as Urban Population exists all Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand........ Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.....all these Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand.

This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet cannot sustain Urban population.

Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed primarily by population that does not produce food.

This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food.

One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it has destroyed environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter".

The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.

Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.

Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums.

Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.

Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.

Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.

Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[Yurik]

I've got to say Leon still pisses me off with this thread. Feel Trolled

Regardless of what you say is the reality. We are far from it. Have you got the knowledge or the funding for any of the tech you propose? What time does all this become available for the average man?

Save your Soviet spiel please.

[hawkwind]

[Southpark Fan]

Six Arguments for the Elimination of Capitalism
Christy Rodgers | August 7th, 2012 | Dissident Voice

'Jerry Mander’s new book, The Capitalism Papers, has a promising subtitle: Fatal Flaws of an Obsolete System. None of the hedging of bets there that constrains much progressive social critique in the US. In liberal punditry, the acceptable spectrum of discourse does not even permit use of the word, and in the foundation-sponsored non-profit sector, such talk would be financial suicide. Nor are US trade unions, what’s left of them, anti-capitalist. (In fact their leaders explicitly claim their aim is to get capitalism to work better.) As he correctly points out, there is an unspoken consensus: “it is as if global capitalism” – a human creation – “occupies a virtually permanent existence, like a religion, a gift of God, infallible.”

This unmasking of the unspoken, invisible, assumed, is what Jerry Mander’s books do best, and it is a promising start. He outlines six intrinsic aspects of global corporate capitalism—which he takes pains to distinguish from a localized, petty bourgeois variety (more on that later) that make it fundamentally untenable if we are to avoid worldwide social and ecological collapse. They are:

■ Amorality – increase of individual and corporate wealth is the only core principle of capitalism. Recognition of any social concern or relationship to the natural world that transcends the goal of increasing capital accumulation is extrinsic to the system.

■ Dependence on growth – capitalism relies on limitless growth, but the natural resources essential to wealth production are finite. Super-exploitation is exhausting those resources and destroying the ecosystems of which they are a part, jeopardizing human survival as well as that of other species.

■ Propensity to war – since the only goal is to accumulate rather than distribute wealth, resources that produce wealth must be controlled; therefore war is inevitable.

■ Intrinsic inequity – without any constraining outside force or internalized principle of social equity, capital accumulation leads almost exclusively to more accumulation, and capital is concentrated in fewer and fewer hands.

■ Anti-democratic – democracies are corruptible: wealth can purchase most of the representation it needs to get the laws necessary for further accumulation and concentration of wealth. This means that as the concentration of wealth increases, democracy is degraded and ultimately destroyed.

■ Unproductive of real happiness – human happiness and wellbeing are demonstrably tied to other factors besides capital accumulation. Extreme poverty is clearly unproductive of happiness, but so is wealth, past a relatively modest level. Happiness is most widespread where there are guarantees that basic needs will be met for all, wealth is more equitably distributed, and bonds between people and the natural environment are still stronger than the desire to accumulate wealth.'


Credit: Dissdent Voice

[Jimbo]

How is it a guy gets fined for planting a vegetable garden in his front yard while a corporation can blow the tops off mountains?