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History: Fiction or Science?
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: History: Fiction or Science? Reply with quote

Man, I hate this sh*t!

Cause I just love this sh*t!

Plus, try as I might, I could never quite get a handle on the chronology of all the simultaneously emerging ancient cultures and the development of their social technologies.

Not that I have a PhD in History, but I figured after three or four encyclopedias, I should be able to form some sort of logical mental timeline of human development.

Anyway, looks like this Russian mathematician just pulled out a fresh roll of tinfoil for students of historical hyjinx.

It's all over google vid:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3446119914735919347&q=tampered+with+history&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8709711894449216572&q=history+fiction+or+science&hl=en

Very tempting...

Quote:




Is it possible that Ancient Rome, Greece and Egypt were invented during Renaissance?

Can it be that Jesus Christ was born in 1053 AD and crucified in 1086 AD? Scientific research points to the evidence that many modern beliefs of traditional history are a sham.

"History: Fiction or Science?" by the eminent mathematician Anatoly Fomenko and his colleagues crowns 30 years of meticulous and extensive research. It is the first volume in seven comprising a "Chronology" that exposes numerous questionable notions of traditional history.

"History: Fiction or Science?" describes how the contemporary chronological scale was created and by whom, with the culprits named as the 16th 17th century clergy. The well-known model of history has enjoyed the relentless attention of prominent critics ever since its creation including respected people like Sir Isaac Newton and Jean Hardouin, the court librarian of Louis XIV, the Sun King of France.

Anatoly Fomenko dissects every historical age scrupulously and analyzes the data from every angle imaginable. Roman and Egyptian chronology take a good beating. Poggio Bracciolini and Petrarch take the blame for creating the beautiful legend of a mythical Classical age that never was.

The Biblical events are brought a lot closer to us both historically and geographically. The Biblical Jerusalem is actually the medieval city of Constantinople. The New and the Old Testament swap their positions in chronological order and are shown to refer to medieval events.

Using astronomy and statistics to back his theories, Fomenko delivers an abundant astronomical proof showing that the identified dates of 'ancient' eclipses are blatantly untrue. Fomenko explains the confusion between the Antiquity and the Middle Ages, and how the division between the two is merely imaginary. The book contains in-depth descriptions of the research methods used as well as the most meticulous rendition of the global chronological map with its numerous errors and glitches explained in a very level-headed manner.


Quote:
Book Description
Recorded history is a finely-woven magic fabric of intricate lies about events predating the sixteenth century. There is not a single piece of evidence that can be reliably and independently traced back earlier than the eleventh century. This book details events that are substantiated by hard facts and logic, and validated by new astronomical research and statistical analysis of ancient sources.

From:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/2913621058/ref=dp_proddesc_0/104-2174446-3147959?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books
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Robert



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmm.....

From "Tuning in:Microtonality in electronic music" by Scott R Wilkinson 1988

There's a history of tuning temperaments....

one remarkable thing in the timeline is that the chinese were doing things BC that the west took 10-18 centuries to catch up:

King Fang
During the 3rd century BC a remarkable discovery was made by King Fang in China.....details.....this anticipates the discovery of the 53 cycle of pure perfect fifths by 18 centuries

Ho Tcheng-Tien
Once again the chinese were far ahead of the west in discoveries of a musical nature.Ho Tcheng-Tien(c.370-447)gave the string lengths for the 12-tone equal tempered scale 13 centuries before such a scale would be considered in europe.
..............
(that's the one we all are pelted with everyday 12-tone equal temperament...the federal reserve note of music)

..............
if the jesuits (as briefly described)were playing with the chinese timeline then the advances would be more contemporous with renaissance europe....

tangently yours
Robert Mr. Green
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elbowdeep



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats with the "text to speech" on those videos? It really sticks out and gives me the willies.

Makes you wonder who the producers of that video are, and why present the audio in that manner?

I too love this stuff... it's amazing how "evidence" can be used. I've been reading in to this sort of thing for years, in particular Graham Hancock, in "Fingerprints of the Gods", but he goes in the opposite direction, saying that modern-man has been here for something like 12-14,000 years, much LONGER than the history books tell us.

ED

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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2057

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

much of the 'american history' that I was taught in school was indeed fiction - some might call it plain old outright lies. I refer to the presentation of such topics as the american civil war, the federal reserve & "AID$". God knows what today's children are being told about this stuff - without even getting to the fictions of '911' and 'terrorism'.
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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched it up to the Chinese spaceships. Then I had to stop. I happen to know what those spaceships looked like, and that drawing was highly inaccurate.

Poly-fused, multiple-core inductor vents on a sub-atomic reactor grid my ass. Laughing

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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ED wrote:
Whats with the "text to speech" on those videos? It really sticks out and gives me the willies.


Stay away from the weather channel.
And OK Computer too, prolly. Wink

I picture a casting office full of Mac Plusses nervously pacing and rehearsing their lines, "Fitter...happier..."

Quote:

Makes you wonder who the producers of that video are, and why present the audio in that manner?


I'm guessing it's the russian dude who wrote the books, and he was trying to save a few rubles in the global internet promotion campaign.

Maybe he thought a robot would sell more books than a commie - to American audiences, at least.

Rumple wrote:
Poly-fused, multiple-core inductor vents on a sub-atomic reactor grid my ass.


Ok, technically it was a series of mono arrays running in parallel, but that's what they called it back then, so it's chiseled that way in all the older text tablets.

Just because you've read a couple issues of Home Reactor doesn't mean you're an expert on the history of PMI valves. Wink

Ahh ... gooberdom.

Well, I couldn't resist. I ordered the book. I'm a geek and a sucker.

Well, I figured I deserved to splurge for a little 'entertainment'.
God help me.
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Holy crap ... literally! Reply with quote

Well, I'm on page 79 right now, and this best describes how I feel about Fomenko's book,

Holy Crap!

That is to say, his hypothesis is sound, his research is incontrovertible and exhaustive, and supports his conclusions thoroughly. Plus, he's really smart, but uses examples and evidence anybody can understand. My forehead is beet red from a good slap every few pages.

A couple of one liners or a poop joke, and I'd be in heaven, but after 79 pages, I'm pretty much a convert. In fact, consensual 'History' books are suddenly hysterically funny.

This is better than entertainment, and much more entertaining.

Consensual chronological history = propagandist bunk.

Which does raise an interesting question - What the hell did happen then?
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obeylittle



Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Middle o' Mitten, Michigan Corp. division of United States of America Corp. division of Global Corp.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which does raise an interesting question - What the hell did happen then?


Doesn't matter. If its that damn good I'm gettin' me some! Cool
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Do it! Reply with quote

Do it!

Considering it costs about as much as two movie tickets and a pack of smokes, it's worth it.

It's only hard to believe until you read it. Right now the 'Dark Ages' are getting a good beat down!

Wiki's consistent vagueness seems to support Fomenko, IMO.

Quote:

Periodization

Introduction
Periodization is a complex issue. To the extent that history is continuous, all systems of periodization are more or less arbitrary. Nevertheless, it is pragmatically useful to divide up history in order to make sense of the past and to articulate changes over time. Different nations and cultures, which experience different histories, require different models of periodization. Periodizing labels are challenged and redefined all the time. Thus a historian may claim that there was no such thing as the Renaissance, while others will defend the concept.
The reasons for this are complex. Periodizing blocks will inevitably overlap, or even seemingly contradict one another. Furthermore, certain periodizing concepts only apply under specific conditions. Some have a cultural usage (but 'the Romantic period' seems to exclude Ingres). Others refer to historical events ('the Inter-War years: 19181939'), yet others are defined by decimal numbering systems ('the 1960s', 'the 17th Century'). Other periods are named from influential or talismanic individuals ('the Victorian Era', 'the Edwardian Era', 'the Napoleonic Era').

From: Periodization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodization


Ahem... more or less arbritrary? I think more.

Here are a couple classic quotes from Petrarch, the poet and scholar who supposedly 'recovered' knowledge of the Classical period of Greece and Rome.

Quote:

Francesco Petrarca
(Petrarch) (July 20, 1304 July 19, 1374) was an Italian scholar, poet, and early humanist. Petrarch and Dante are considered the fathers of the Renaissance.

"What else, then, is all history, but the praise of Rome?"Petrarch

"Each famous author of antiquity whom I recover places a new offence and another cause of dishonour to the charge of earlier generations, who, not satisfied with their own disgraceful barrenness, permitted the fruit of other minds, and the writings that their ancestors had produced by toil and application, to perish through insufferable neglect. Although they had nothing of their own to hand down to those who were to come after, they robbed posterity of its ancestral heritage."Petrarch


From: Dark Ages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages
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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2950
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, Jer, time for me to play my favorite game, Devil's Advocate (or, as I prefer, being a Pee Wee Herman fan, Satan's Helper.)

So, Mr. Smarter Than Thou, I was Abducted By Alien Historical Facts (always start with a condescending tone and schoolyard put-down)..... who's to say all this "History is faked" stuff isn't some sort of fundamentalist Christian ploy to redraw the carbon 14 yardstick, thereby bringing the shroud of Turin into time alignment, as well as justifying the possibility that dinosaurs truly did not walk the Earth more than 6,000 years ago.... as the Bible is being twisted into saying lately? And all the while laying the blame for this hoax on evil Catholics and Jesuits, leaving the Protestants and Restorationists as the "true religion". (And maybe the Anglicans as alter boys and the clean-up squad for parties.)

Huh? Let's hear it, Mr. Fundamentalist Christian Shape-Shifting Dinosaur Hoax of Turin Lover-Enabler. Confused

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Last edited by Rumpl4skn on Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumple,

You may actually be raising an important issue.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what it is. Wink

While I consider the implications of the Protestant Dinosaur conspiracy, maybe you could have a look at the sample pages from Fomenko's book that Fintan has graciously allowed me to post on the BFN server.

http://www.breakfornews.com/fomenko-sample.htm

I think they offer a glimpse of Fomenko's general perspective, and a few examples of his evidentiary style.

As far as the Catholic vs. Protestant flavors of Christianity, it appears to me that the mercantile interests that supported the Vatican's crusades eventually hijacked the Christian cultural control paradigm and applied it to the principles of corporate colonization of the Indies and Americas. Culturally, this shift of authority from the Vatican to the Bank of England was known as the Protestant Reformation, and IMO, was part of the 'Christian cultural independence' necessary for international commerce.

Naturally you can see how it was in the best interests of both groups to make sure support for the Dinosaur movement and their Neo-Jurrassic rhetoric remained extinct.
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cliff



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating subject!

So carbon dating is fairly inaccurate to 3000 yrs. I was wondering about sedimentary layers, how paleontologists search for things within layers, eg like the Jurassic era. Now modern historians also search through layers, does that not also tell them something about how old things are? Like the many layers of Troy that were dug through before the "real" Troy was uncovered. Does the author cover (or uncover) this point? It may very well be that 12000 years of layers do not provide very accurate layering, but I would not imagine too many layers on (say) a 1400 city. Can anyone with archeological knowledge confirm or deny this before I go and burn my history books. Laughing
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