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Janama



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 410
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
:
Dec. 13, 2007

His Excellency Ban Ki-Moon

Secretary-General, United Nations

New York, N.Y.


Dear Mr. Secretary-General,

Re: UN climate conference taking the World in entirely the wrong direction

It is not possible to stop climate change, a natural phenomenon that has affected humanity through the ages. Geological, archaeological, oral and written histories all attest to the dramatic challenges posed to past societies from unanticipated changes in temperature, precipitation, winds and other climatic variables. We therefore need to equip nations to become resilient to the full range of these natural phenomena by promoting economic growth and wealth generation.

The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has issued increasingly alarming conclusions about the climatic influences of human-produced carbon dioxide (CO2), a non-polluting gas that is essential to plant photosynthesis. While we understand the evidence that has led them to view CO2 emissions as harmful, the IPCC's conclusions are quite inadequate as justification for implementing policies that will markedly diminish future prosperity. In particular, it is not established that it is possible to significantly alter global climate through cuts in human greenhouse gas emissions. On top of which, because attempts to cut emissions will slow development, the current UN approach of CO2 reduction is likely to increase human suffering from future climate change rather than to decrease it.

The IPCC Summaries for Policy Makers are the most widely read IPCC reports amongst politicians and non-scientists and are the basis for most climate change policy formulation. Yet these Summaries are prepared by a relatively small core writing team with the final drafts approved line-by-line by *government *representatives. The great *majority of IPCC contributors and *reviewers, and the tens of thousands of other scientists who are qualified to comment on these matters, are not involved in the preparation of these documents. The summaries therefore cannot properly be represented as a consensus view among experts.

Contrary to the impression left by the IPCC Summary reports:

z Recent observations of phenomena such as glacial retreats, sea-level rise and the migration of temperature-sensitive species are not evidence for abnormal climate change, for none of these changes has been shown to lie outside the bounds of known natural variability.

z The average rate of warming of 0.1 to 0. 2 degrees Celsius per decade recorded by satellites during the late 20th century falls within known natural rates of warming and cooling over the last 10,000 years.

z Leading scientists, including some senior IPCC representatives, acknowledge that today's computer models cannot predict climate. Consistent with this, and despite computer projections of temperature rises, there has been no net global warming since 1998. That the current temperature plateau follows a late 20th-century period of warming is consistent with the continuation today of natural multi-decadal or millennial climate cycling.

In stark contrast to the often repeated assertion that the science of climate change is "settled," significant new peer-reviewed research has cast even more doubt on the hypothesis of dangerous human-caused global warming. But because IPCC working groups were generally instructed (see http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/docs/wg...2006-08-14.pdf) to consider work published only through May, 2005, these important findings are not included in their reports; i.e., the IPCC assessment reports are already materially outdated.

The UN climate conference in Bali has been planned to take the world along a path of severe CO2 restrictions, ignoring the lessons apparent from the failure of the Kyoto Protocol, the chaotic nature of the European CO2 trading market, and the ineffectiveness of other costly initiatives to curb greenhouse gas emissions. Balanced cost/benefit analyses provide no support for the introduction of global measures to cap and reduce energy consumption for the purpose of restricting CO2 emissions. Furthermore, it is irrational to apply the "precautionary principle" because many scientists recognize that both climatic coolings and warmings are realistic possibilities over the medium-term future.

The current UN focus on "fighting climate change," as illustrated in the Nov. 27 UN Development Programme's Human Development Report, is distracting governments from adapting to the threat of inevitable natural climate changes, whatever forms they may take. National and international planning for such changes is needed, with a focus on helping our most vulnerable citizens adapt to conditions that lie ahead. Attempts to prevent global climate change from occurring are ultimately futile, and constitute a tragic misallocation of resources that would be better spent on humanity's real and pressing problems.

Yours faithfully,


list of signatories

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164004

more info

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...5-3dce4095c360

Peer-Reviewed studies skeptical re GW

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...A-B35D0842FED8

BTW - the list of papers is too long to print here - the IPCC refuses to accept them as only info pre 2005 are used in the IPCC report as the above letter states.
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J Ruthless



Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 201
Location: The Constitution State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Came across this, don't know if anyone posted this yet, but its worth a glance. I thought he had some good points, and generally knew the real deal.
Although, im not sure what this guys connections are and where he stands with the PTB.


Quote:
Freedom, Not Climate, is Under Threat - Czech Leader
GERMANY: December 11, 2007


BERLIN - The movement against global warming has turned into a new religion, an ideology that threatens to undermine freedom and the world's economic and social order, Czech President Vaclav Klaus said on Monday.


Klaus was speaking to reporters at the launch of the German translation of his new book, a sceptical look at the worldwide campaign to stop climate change entitled "Blue Planet in Green Chains: What Is Under Threat -- Climate or Freedom?".

"My answer to that question is unambiguous," said Klaus. "Freedom is under threat.

"Also (threatened) is the prevailing social and economic order, contemporary civilisation, the current prosperity of developed countries and the chances of developing countries to achieve a similar level of prosperity."

He said the climate change movement was not based on science and that theories about man-made global warming could not be proven.

"It has become a new religion or new ideology and in that sense I think it's justified to compare it with other ideologies," Klaus said.

Klaus, an economist and former Czech prime minister who championed the free market, is one of the world's most vocal climate-change sceptics. On Sept. 24 he gave a speech to the UN General Assembly expressing doubts whether climate change was man-made. Several diplomats said the UN speech irritated some small island nations and may have cost Prague a hotly contested seat on the UN Security Council.

Klaus said the climate was constantly changing and current developments were no exception. There was no scientific consensus on what caused climate change, although mankind is playing a marginal role.

He added that any likely changes to the climate "in the relevant future" would not threaten the human race.

Greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, produced by burning fossil fuels, trap heat in the atmosphere. Scientists say that if emissions are not curbed, sea levels will rise while drought and floods will become more frequent.

A UN meeting in Bali running to Dec. 14 is seeking to launch talks on a new pact to slow climate change but is split about whether to include guidelines such as a mandatory cut in greenhouse gas emissions by rich nations.

Klaus said the timing of his book launch was a coincidence.

He was asked if there would be a copy of the book for US President George W. Bush, whose government is fighting in Bali against hard targets for cutting greenhouse gases.

"He already has one," said Klaus. (Editing by Matthew Tostevin)


Story by Louis Charbonneau


REUTERS NEWS SERVICE
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/45904/story.htm


Quote:


Czech leader raises new doubts on climate change
Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:11am EST



By Erik Kirschbaum

BERLIN, Nov 11 (Reuters) - Czech President Vaclav Klaus has criticised Chancellor Angela Merkel for her efforts to fight climate change, saying politicians, journalists and scientists are exploiting an unproven issue for their own advantage.

In an interview to be published in WirtschaftsWoche business magazine in Germany on Monday, Klaus said many world leaders had privately congratulated him for doubting whether climate change was man-made in a Sept. 24 speech to a U.N. conference.

"The unfair and irrational debate about global warming really annoys me," said Klaus, a leading climate change sceptic.

"The issue is increasingly turning into the fundamental ideological conflict of our times. The climate protection movement represents a new ideology."

Ahead of a U.N. climate panel meeting starting on Monday, Klaus compared it to the East-West conflict of the Cold War.

He said he was surprised Merkel, a physicist who grew up in communist East Germany, would fall for such an idea without making a "critical examination of a controversial hypothesis". Merkel has taken a leading role in fighting climate change.

"She's lived in a socialist society and she knows the dangers of ideologies that are aimed against freedom," said Klaus, whose Sept. 24 climate conference speech may also have hurt the Czech Republic's bid for a U.N. Security Council seat.

"Utopia is an excellent escape for politicians because they can busy themselves with far-away goals and don't have to worry about immediate problems," added Klaus. "Climate change is an excellent issue for that escape."

Klaus said many world leaders privately congratulated him for his sceptical remarks but he did not want to name them.

"I'm not alone," he said. "I didn't get applause for my speech at the New York climate conference. But afterwards many government leaders came to me and congratulated me. They said 'that was important, someone has to say it'. Evidently you need to be brave to speak up against climate policies."



U.N. CLIMATE PANEL MEETING

Greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, produced by burning fossil fuels, trap heat in the atmosphere. Scientists say that if emissions are not curbed, sea levels will rise while drought and floods will become more frequent.

A U.N. climate panel will meet in Valencia, Spain, on Nov. 12-17 to issue a report summing up more than 3,000 pages of findings this year that blamed humans for climate change.

Klaus told the German weekly magazine he did not doubt that global warming was happening and that humans were playing a role. But he said the decisive question was how big that role is. Klaus said it is only marginal.

"You can analyse the climate debate as a sociological trend. First, politicians have put climate protection on the agenda for self-interest and journalists then jumped aboard as freeloaders kicking up a storm with a headline-making issue," he said.

"And then come the climate researchers who want to maximise their profit by devoting themselves to an issue where the most research funds are being allocated," he said.

-- For Reuters latest environment blogs click on:

blogs.reuters.com/environment/

(Editing by Matthew Tostevin )

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL11213678

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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The current CO2 levels are higher than ever recorded before,


When, exactly, did these levels start to be recorded?
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Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Like a dog chasing its tail. Reply with quote

Hi Mike

I gather that they infer the actual values from the Oxygen 18 analyses of the ice cores from antarctica but it may be actual values.

Seems as if the warming occurs which leads to additional and incremental CO2 increase. It may lag due to reabsorption into the oceans etc. but it is an indicator if not initially a cause.

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Laurence Fishburne Junior



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 417
Location: Belfast

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Like a dog chasing its tail. Reply with quote

Peter wrote:
Hi Mike

I gather that they infer the actual values from the Oxygen 18 analyses of the ice cores from antarctica but it may be actual values.

Seems as if the warming occurs which leads to additional and incremental CO2 increase. It may lag due to reabsorption into the oceans etc. but it is an indicator if not initially a cause.
What is the problem with CO2?
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noplacebo



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 221

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

only that its the basis of our whole food chain,because thats plants what plants munch on. we are not much fun for there yums, oh well what goes around comes around.
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preddall



Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Manchester England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:58 am    Post subject: Climate change 'fraud' Reply with quote

Hi Can someone explain the following?

I read an article here:

http://www.nov55.com/gbwm.html

It said that C02 couldn't be the cause of global warming because it absorbs ALL of the radiation within a certain area. (ie radiation is the limiting factor - more C02 cannot trap more heat)

If this is true then how can it also be true that 'some' radiation is/has always been reflected by the earths surface and returned to space?

Surely both cannot be true? If some solar radiation is reflected then it stands that the C02 didn't absorb it all, and by that logic more C02 would absorb more radiation as it passes back through the atmospher having been reflected?

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Craig W



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump^^
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Janama



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 410
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must recommend this climate site

http://www.climate4you.com

if you want good graphics and charts they have the most up to date and the best IMO.
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duane



Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 554
Location: western pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Global Warming/Cooling is another false choice (republican/democrat) given to the people to squabble over instead of the real problem

here's a clue of one of the real problems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmD9IJh1Cr0

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ManAtTheWindow



Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 255
Location: Inverness, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ormond wrote:
Also, just for FUN, here's a trick question:

No polar bear has ever been known to eat a penquin, though polar bears are carniverous and penguins are quite edible (and tasty).
Why hasn't a polar bear ever eaten a penquin?


Polar bears live in the Arctic and would very much enjoy a diet of penguins. Penguins are cunning creatures and have therefore adopted a defensive strategy of living in the Antarctic. They're just poles apart, really.

What I want to know is, where would you find the West Pole?

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bri



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-09-22-voa16.cfm
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iVseyRMTWU-tI-9-sDhfCCJEk4vgD9ASDMQG0
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