Sorry but I cannot simply start and take stuff at face value and forget 20 odd years of false flag attacks and hoax's simply because MSM puts out a few tear jerkers..
What's the message?, Not who sent it.
As for Chapelle who kept his mouth shut but refused to obey the inner-code of Hollywood wasn't allowed to work again for years and likely the only reason he was allowed back in at all is because he cut a deal. He like so many others get drawn into the conspiracy theories 'they' want you to believe in.
Let's for argument sake say that Sandy Hook was a hoax. To believe every terrorist attack is a hoax says a lot to a person's gullibility. That suggestion becomes so strong that you fail to take each with fresh eyes, and not be influenced by the past. For example what do we know of the Manchester bombing, and how much can be verified.
You could take it further, and say that even if the victims were fake has the desired effect been achieved on the population?. What I'm saying there is it's very easy to be led down a path chosen by others. If you believe it's a hoax, then the burden of proof is on you.
You won't find any tear jerker reactions here, but well thought out analysis on what's occured. With that though question everything, and take nothing for granted.
Seems Salman was in Germany four days before the attack. I wonder how that fits in timeline wise with his trip to Libya.
May 25 (Reuters) - Salman Abedi, the British suicide bomber who killed 22 people at a music venue in Manchester on Monday, was in Germany four days before the attack, Sky News reported on Thursday citing German intelligence.
Abedi had been in Dusseldorf, 300 miles (482.8 km) west of Berlin, Sky said.
Investigators have said they believe he was part of a wider network of militants.
What I dont understand is why are the police sharing Intel with the US to begin with?. Shouldn't that be the job of British Intel?.
(Reuters) - British police have stopped sharing information on the suicide bombing in Manchester with the United States, a British counter-terrorism source told Reuters on Thursday after police said leaks to U.S. media risked hindering their investigation.
Police are hunting for a possible bomb-maker after the 22-year-old attacker, British-born Salman Abedi, detonated a sophisticated device at a concert venue packed with children on Monday night, killing 22 people and injuring 64.
As the situation remained tense in Manchester, police said they were responding to a call at a college in the Trafford area, roads were closed and they were assessing the situation. Army bomb disposal experts had arrived at the college.
The decision to stop sharing police information with U.S. agencies was an extraordinary step as Britain sees the United States as its closest ally on security and intelligence.
"This is until such time as we have assurances that no further unauthorised disclosures will occur," said the counter-terrorism source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The official threat level was raised after the Manchester attack to "critical", its highest level, meaning a further attack could be imminent. Troops have been deployed to free up police officers for patrols and investigations.
After a series of police raids in and around Manchester, a total of eight people are in custody in connection with the suicide bombing. British media have reported that one of them is Abedi's brother but police have not confirmed that.
If there was no blood n guts then the NYT stuff would be an obvious Intel op
As for proof? Define proof. Lipstick on the colour is enough for most Women they don't
wait for consensus or a judge to tell them. It will do me too...
What is proven is that most on here think Manchester is not a hoax and are telling me so _________________ Vaut mieux prévenir que guérir.
People have had their fill -and more- of all this mayhem
TRUST BETRAYED -
THE MISSED CHANCES TO STOP
THE MANCHESTER ARENA BOMBER
Theresa May and her Securocrats FAILED to stop Abedi - despite many
chances. Community leaders, friends and even FAMILY of alleged bomber
Salman Abedi had REPEATEDLY rung terrorism hotlines to alert authorities
of the danger he presented. Nothing was done.
The Manchester suicide bomber was repeatedly flagged to the authorities over his extremist views, but was not stopped by officers, it emerged Wednesday night.
Counter Terrorism agencies were facing questions after it emerged Salman Abedi told friends that “being a suicide bomber was okay”, prompting them to call the Government’s anti-terrorism hotline.
Sources suggest that authorities were informed of the danger posed by Abedi on at least five separate occasions in the five years prior to the attack on Monday night.
The authorities were also aware that Abedi’s father was linked to a well-known militant Islamist group in Libya, which is proscribed in Britain. Abedi also had links to several British-based jihadis with Isil connections.
Yesterday his father was detained by Libyan militia in the capital Tripoli while the suicide bomber’s two brothers have separately been arrested on suspicion of terrorism offences......
Last night the Home Secretary conceded that Abedi was known the intelligence services, while counter terrorism officials were braced for criticism over the apparent failures.....
It emerged security services are examining links between Abedi and an expert bomb-maker who had lived in the same street in Manchester....
The missed opportunities to catch Abedi were beginning to mount up last night. The Telegraph has spoken to a community leader who said that Abedi was reported two years ago “because he thought he was involved in extremism and terrorism”.
Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, said: “People in the community expressed concerns about the way this man was behaving and reported it in the right way using the right channels.
“They did not hear anything since.”
Two friends of Abedi also became so worried they separately telephoned the police counter-terrorism hotline five years ago and again last year.....
Akram Ramadan, 49, part of the close-knit Libyan community in south Manchester, said Abedi had been banned from Didsbury Mosque after he had confronted the Imam who was delivering an anti-extremist sermon.
Mr Ramadan said he understood that Abedi had been placed on a “watch list” because the mosque reported him to the authorities for his extremist views.
A well-placed source at Didsbury Mosque confirmed it had contacted the Home Office’s Prevent anti-radicalisation programme as a result.
A US official also briefed that members of Abedi’s own family had contacted British police saying that he was “dangerous”, but again the information does not appear to have been acted upon.
Abedi's own family background might also have been a red flag to authorities. His father was a member of the militant Libyan Islamic Fighting Group.
Yet Abedi was able to travel frequently between the UK and Libya, where it is feared he trained in bombmaking and possibly travelled to Syria.
His youngest brother, Hisham - who is photographed on social media wielding an automatic rifle - was yesterday arrested by the Libyans who suspect him of knowing about the Manchester plot in advance and plotting his own attack in Tripoli.
A spokesman for the Libyan authorities told BBC2's Newsnight that one of Abedi's final acts before the murders was to ring his mother.
The spokesman said: "His brother felt there was something going on there in Manchester and he thought his brother would do something like bombing or attack. So after that, he told us, 'Having internet, I see the attack in Manchester and I knew that's my brother'."
The spokesman added that Libyan authorities were aware of Abedi going to the capital of Tripoli on April 18 and believed he stayed for two or three weeks.
He revealed that Abedi's younger brother Hashim had been investigated for about a month and a half over suspicions that he was linked to IS.
"We were not quite sure about this, but when we arrested and we asked him, he told us, 'I have ideology with my brother'. Hashim told us, 'I know everything about my brother, what he was doing there in Manchester'."
US authorities said Abedi was known to them prior to the atrocity while France’s interior minister said the 22-year-old had “proven” links with Islamic State and that both British and French intelligence services had information that the attacker had been in Syria.
Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, disclosed that the intelligence services had been aware of Abedi, who had only in the past few weeks returned to the UK after visiting Libya.
Rudd told Sky News: “We do know that he was known up to a point to the intelligence services.”
Ramadan Abedi, the suicide bomber’s father who lives in Tripoli, gave a series of interviews yesterday in which he denied his son was to blame.
Mr Abedi told Bloomberg: “I was really shocked when I saw the news, I still don’t believe it.
“He was always against those attacks, saying there’s no religious justification for them. I don’t understand how he’d have become involved in an attack that led to the killing of children.”
But a friend of the family said Abedi’s parents had become so concerned about his behaviour they had ordered him to leave the UK and live with them in Libya.
Adel Elghrani said: “The father was so concerned he confiscated his passport. But then Salman went to his mother and said that he wanted to go on a pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia and she gave him his passport back and he came to England instead.”....
Counter-terrorism officers now believe that Abedi rented a flat through Airbnb in the days before the attack and stayed there until around 7pm on the night of the Ariana Grande concert at the Manchester Arena....
He carried the bomb to the destination in a rucksack and detonated it at just after 10.30pm as the US pop star was completing her last song.
Sources last night told The Daily Telegraph that there were two separate bomb factories, with the chemicals mixed in the rented Airbnb flat in Granby Row before the bomb itself was assembled elsewhere. It was not clear if the second flat had been discovered.....
What you just read is very seriously politically damaging
to the establishment. It speaks of either gross incompetence
or deeply malign intelligence relationships.
Corbyn could win an election on the strength of it.
We'll see how it's handled in the days ahead.
People have had their fill -and more- of all this mayhem:
_________________ Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
Last edited by Fintan on Fri May 26, 2017 7:13 am; edited 5 times in total
Many arrests and raids over the last 24hrs, but very little
has been said about the outcome -for operational reasons.
Talk of "significant" arrests and seizure of "very important"
items, is the extent of public comment.
It's likely that TATP bomb precursors have been found and a
number of individuals in an alleged terror network arrested.
But there are persons of interest still at large - and possibly
more operational assets unfound - thus the ongoing silence.
The security services have quickly spun a response to the
catastrophic failure to intercept the obvious threat of Abedi.
Defending against accusations that MI5 had been repeatedly warned the Manchester suicide bomber, Salman Abedi, was dangerous, a senior Whitehall source revealed the security services have foiled five attacks in the past two months since the Westminster attack. The source revealed authorities are managing 500 active investigations - involving 3,000 subjects of interest at any one time.http://bit.ly/2r0ITBn
That doesn't even come close to justifying the level of failure here.
The G7 intelligence services are not just mere bystanders to this.
They have actively fomented and fostered this bloody chaos.
Here's a run down of other
details to emerge today:
A Libyan militia, the Special Deterrence Forces (SDF), arrested two people linked to Abedi on Wednesday, his father Ramadan and his brother Hashim, it said in a statement. The militia reported that Hashim had knowledge of Salman’s plot and planned an attack in Tripoli after traveling to the Libyan capital from Britain on April 16. The SDF said Hashim was in daily contact with Salman by phone, and had been going to pick up more than $500 sent by his brother when they arrested him. Newsweek could not independently verify the militia’s claims....
A brother of Salman Abedi, Hashem Abedi, was detained in Libya after the attack. Libyan authorities had been following Hashem Abedi for a month and a half because of suspected links to ISIS, said Ahmed Dagdoug, the spokesman for Libya's counterterror forces.
During interrogation, Hashem Abedi revealed that he knew his brother was going to carry out an attack, but he did not know where or when, Dagdoug said.
Hashem Abedi also revealed that he knew exactly how the bomb was made, Dagdoug said, and that he believes that Salman created the device by himself. He said that he provided some assistance to his brother, but added no specific details about how.
Dagdoug said a network was involved in planning the attack.
The brothers came to Libya on April 18 and Salman Abedi departed on May 17, Dagdoug said, but it's not clear at this time if Salman went to Syria.
Authorities were investigating whether Abedi had possible contacts with extremists in Germany, including during a 2015 visit to Frankfurt, the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity. Abedi was en route back to Britain from Istanbul when he stopped off in Düsseldorf.
The German newspaper Der Tagesspiegel first reported the bomber’s presence in Germany. The paper, which cited unidentified security sources, said Abedi, flew from Düsseldorf to Manchester last Thursday.
The killer’s sister, Jomana Abedi, told the Wall Street Journal her brother may have been reacting to US-led strikes in the Middle East.
“I think he saw children – Muslim children – dying everywhere, and wanted revenge,” she said. “He saw the explosives America drops on children in Syria, and he wanted revenge. Whether he got that is between him and God.”
Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 253 Location: Inverness, Scotland
Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject:
Reading that Telegraph report makes me wonder what the thinking of the intelligence services actually is on an issue like this. They received numerous alerts from all kinds of sources that this guy smelt like a bad egg, his movements were a series of red flags, his family were known to be colourful characters (to say the least) so what more were they waiting for?
But I also wonder what they are actually supposed to do that won't attract flak from civil rights groups and libertarian mouthpieces. On the one hand, most of us are in no doubt that the government and the police are relentlessly restricting the rights of people who pose no threat whatsoever to civil order but on the other hand we're not particularly comfortable when we see the State apparatus unilaterally wielding its overwhelming power to crush some little guy without any of the checks and balances we expect from open, due process.
From that point of view I'm not sure what the security services "win-win" procedure actually is. Presumably, if they'd just rubbed him out and nobody ever knew about it, we wouldn't worry about it but I'm not too comfortable with that principle either.
Every now and again, we hear some police spokesperson or similar telling us that they have already used recently acquired powers to avert numerous potential attacks and I think many of us are inclined to think, "Aye, right you are. You would say that, wouldn't you?" So perhaps there is a bit more truth in that than I might have conceded a week ago. But at the same time, they must therefore concede that, by the same standard, they've made an absolute arse of this case. Why?
There's been a lot of talk today about how both the Conservative government and the Labour government which preceded it have been reducing the size of the police force and the armed services with the obvious strong suggestion that this outrageous incident could have been prevented if there were more rozzers and soldiers on the public payroll. That's probably shameless opportunism - especially in the light of the fact that the police spend far too much of their time and resources (at least in Scotland) harassing motorists, escorting Orange Walks and baiting football supporters - so I'm not buying it. However, it is a convenient defence to be able to pull out of the hat if they did feel like just keeping tabs on this guy right up until he actually did something rather than intervene to arrest him and have him deported before he did any damage.
"We're doing all we can with our limited resources and we so nearly stopped this from happening but our budget just doesn't stretch far enough and we don't have the manpower to do the job as effectively as we want to..."
Is that the choice we have now? Fearing suicide bombers in public places or fearing the emergence of the overt Police State? Is there another option on offer? _________________ My real name is Gerry.
One of the the loudest protests about the prison in Cuba is that they've locked up too many perfectly innocent people, individuals who were snagged for a bounty. But I wonder that since we are in a "war on terror" it shouldn't require a full blown legal post-crime conviction to put them away. How about locking up people on a watch list or no fly list? If there is any suspicion of terrorist activity, a report from their family members, say, lock them up first and ask questions later
MI5 is to hold an inquiry into the way it dealt with warnings
from the public that the Manchester suicide bomber, Salman Abedi,
was a potential threat. The security service, which was alerted to
Abedi's extremist views three times prior to last Monday's attack,
will examine how it dealt with the warnings. Home Secretary
Amber Rudd said it was right for MI5 to review its processes.
A damage limitation exercise of no consequence whatsoever.
No more word on the dozen or more people under arrest.
But the biggest development in this story is NOTHING. Silence. Quiet.
Boy did the mainstream corporate media drop this like a hot potato
when it became clear it was a huge electoral liability for the NWO. _________________ Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
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