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9/11 Without Tinfoil 2: The Deception
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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urbanspaceman: Yes the nose is a popcan, but there's more mass there than just the skin, just like your own body. How much, I don't know, I'm not an expert, and since we don't know how strong the reinforced Pentagon wing was, I can only speculate on how much damage an airliner would do flying at 450mph. Without facts there's no way for us to calculate.

At 450+ mph, I would think any puncture or weakening caused by the nosecone would be ripped open by the rapid onslaught of following debris, much of it hard and heavy. Some would say the 16' foot hole is too small (for the fuselage area,) but I think the fast forward momentum helps to account for the containment.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:19 am    Post subject: NO TINFOIL 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Without facts there's no way for us to calculate.


NOW, I hate to admit this:
I had dl No Tinfoil v2 but I had not finished listening to it, my battery went dead on my MP3 walkman and I got diverted. Somehow, I ended up in the middle of this thread, in a wild debate, instead of at the beginning.

NOW I get it from No Tinfoil v2. I STILL have to get my head around it a little.

THAT MAKES SENSE. As someone said previously in this thread, that's the unexplained INTERSECTION between the super-duper juicy Gen. Mahmoud Ahmad story (which they handed out, but only to a max of probably 1,000,000 Americans or far less) and the FAKENESS of the whole hijacker thing.

(The one factor of the Gen. Ahmad ISI story that seemed not-fake is the fact that so few know it and it was seemingly buried by the media --- if a conspiracy-theory diversion falls in the forest, and no one is nearby, does it make a sound?)

That's why BOTH parts seemed real, i.e. the CIA did it and the Hijackers were involved. That's the nexus of LIHOP and MIHOP (as someone said). The CIA did pay them and send them. But only to be actors.

Hmm. Didn't I already know that? I think I did, but not so clearly.

They were sent money FROM Pakistan to create this legend. They were USED and thrown away. THEY probably thought they were real terrorists, or thought they were real Egyptian James Bond or thought they were real Al-Qaeda, on some kind of real mission.

Check, that alleged recording of Mohammed Atta, he allegedly TOLD everyone the plane was going back to the airport. One would assume that he WOULD say that, to keep everyone from rioting. What if HE believed that, because HE had a different mission in mind?

Anyhow, I really liked Fintan's talk, I need to hear it again.

re: George W and Osama -- fall guys
I did notice that "OsamaCo" caused nothing but destruction and ruin for the Arab world, not liberation or victory, and that this would have been the entirely predictable outcome of attacking America (in the conventional paradigm). I thought of that within seconds of seeing the South Tower hit, that Bush would roll out the war machine and kill LOTS of innocent people.

How could it be that "OsamaCo" were so smart that they could plot the attack to work so perfectly that it could beat NORAD, and yet be so stupid that they did not consider that the outcome of the attack would backfire and destroy the Arab world ... unless that was their intention. (I know that's a foregone conclusion here. I joked on my site and with some local folks that the CEOs of Exxon and all the Nynex/London speculators should be sending Osama a bottle of Old Malt Scotch for Christmas.)

I also noticed that "BushCo" has caused nothing but destruction and ruin for America and that THIS was the predictable outcome of attacking Iraq --- at all --- and especially attacking Iraq with less than 150,000 "peacekeeping/reconstruction" troops on the ground. I mean, it was wholly predictable that the Iraq War as orchestrated would lead to quagmire and death and disaster for the US as well as Iraqis. Rummy had to fire several top people to launch his "unplanned" "Happy Meal War", instead of a well-stocked "Triple Cheeseburger and Supersize It War" the Generals insisted he needed.

Bush practically spit tobacco in Chirac's escargot to make sure that America would have NO strategic support from France, as well as flipping off the rest of Old Europe -- which was really our allies all along. (I"m borrowing from Fintan's analogy about drowning blacks in NOLA to drive them away from Republicans.)

Last checked on some financial sites, the US economy is hemorrhaging $2 billion per week in Iraq, on a war that "ended" in 2003. We probably could have completely rebuilt Iraq for what we're spending in 6 months, and THEN they would have thrown flowers at Donald and George. Yet they chose to not only fuck the Iraqis but fuck the troops and fuck America.

Congress has appropriated more than $300 billion for US military operations in Iraq. Simply stated in monetary terms, estimates are that we are spending $8 billion per month in Iraq with no end in sight. That equates to $2 billion per week, or $267 million per day, or $11 million per hour.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has estimated the cost of "prosecuting" a war against Iraq at up to $9 billion per month, on top of an initial outlay of up to $13 billion for the deployment of troops to the Persian Gulf region.

And we're supposed to believe this was some ACCIDENT? Quo Bono?

Even going with the obvious, that there was NEVER any interest in actually *helping* Iraq, America could have spent MUCH more up front on the war effort, maybe could have drafted 3 million when war hysteria ran high, and got it FINISHED in one year, or at least CLAMPED DOWN. Then they could have stolen the oil, and we could have had parades and could have had Geoge W. Bush International Airport and Donald Rumsfeld Boulevards throughout America.
Obviously, this was not the plan.

So, I think that LOSING EVENTUALLY (long-term stalemate) was the plan. Isn't that was the US tried to achieve with Iran-Iraq? Stalemate, bleed both socieities dry, emotionally, and economically, just like Henry said?

I'll try to fight the emotional temptation to respond with factual details to trolls in the future.

Thanks for the heads up review on the fašade of the Pgon. It definitely looks like WAS hit by something very wide, even if the penetration doesn't look right.
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've stated elsewhere in these forums that the Pentagon crime scene is sorely lacking when it comes to sufficient verifiable evidence.

As with every other crime scene on that day, I find myself trusting video over photographs, simply because of their release date (in many cases "live") and because they are more difficult to alter than photographs.

Yesterday, I attempted to disprove a photograph of the WTC1 "impact hole" by cross-referencing it to video. Even though I did fail miserably in that attempt, I still believe in the method I used. I just happened to find myself fishing in the wrong pond, for lack of a better metaphor.

The plane pieces which are often referred to as having existed at the Pentagon seem to only appear in photographs. They appear to be out in the open, albeit a considerable distance away from the Pentagon hole. It seems strange to me that nobody with a videocamera managed to see that large chunk of skin sitting all by itself on the Pentalawn. Instead, only one photographer happened to spot it and capture it in a still shot. This seems pretty amazing to me. (source: http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr68e.html)

Excerpt from source, in which Mark Faram explains how and when he took the photographs:
I hate to disappoint anyone, but here is the story behind the photograph. At the time, I was a senior writer with Navy Times newspaper. It is an independent weekly that is owned by the Gannett Corporation (same owners as USA Today). I was at the Navy Annex, up the hill from the Pentagon when I heard the explosion. I always keep a digital camera in my backpack briefcase just as a matter of habit. When the explosion happened I ran down the hill to the site and arrived there approximately 10 minutes after the explosion. I saw the piece, that was near the heliport pad and had to work around to get a shot of it with the building in the background. Because the situation was still fluid, I was able to get in close and make that image within fifteen minutes of the explosion because security had yet to shut off the area. I photographed it twice, with the newly arrived fire trucks pouring water into the building in the background ... Right after photographing that piece of wreckage, I also photographed a triage area where medical personnel were tending to a seriously burned man. A priest knelt in the middle of the area and started to pray. I took that image and left immediately ... I was out of the immediate area photographing other things within 20 minutes of the crash.

I urge everyone here to read the entire article, as it contains much more that what I have excerpted. I will also note that I am not the first to post this link on b4n.

Getting back to my analysis....

Now if I were a deceptionist, I think it would be a relatively easy task to snap photos of various open sections of lawn at the time of event. It would be somewhat more difficult, but certainly not unmanageable, to evaluate "live" video footage in search of an unfilmed section of lawn. With these two tasks accomplished, I would be free to insert whatever plane parts were at my disposal to the photographs.

Using the same video/photograph correlation elimination method, it only gets easier from there. Any objects photographed inside the Pentagon could either be planted or inserted - I would have my choice based on the fact that prior to the "attack," these objects would have been concealed behind the walls of the most secure building on the planet.

Taking off my deceptionist hat and putting my thinking cap back on, I am forced to question every photograph taken from inside that Pentagon hole. This leaves me with very little that I can deem to be factual visual evidence.

Due to the risk of exceeding the typical length of a dilbert_g post, I will stop here and continue my thoughts in my next post, hopefully after some meaningful debate over my analysis thus far.

Prediction: 9/11 Without Tinfoil - Part 327: WE'RE ALMOST THERE
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck off. Laughing Razz
How's that for brevity?
PS. You're right, I didn't 'get' the Truck-humor exactly.
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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert g: They were sent money FROM Pakistan to create this legend. They were USED and thrown away. THEY probably thought they were real terrorists, or thought they were real Egyptian James Bond or thought they were real Al-Qaeda, on some kind of real mission.

......or maybe they thought they were taking part in another drill, reminiscent of Atta's alleged LA to Boston flight the week before 9-11, according to actor James Woods who reported 'suspicious behaviour' to authorities when the plane landed. (?)
The story came to light just after 9-11. There hasn't been much mention of it since then, just on a few alternative sites. (Does anyone know if Woods ever confirmed the story, beyond reports of the FBI visiting his home in the aftermath?)

The drills were a safety net/smoke-screen for most every dirty deed on 9-11. Even the 9-11 Commission admits that some of the 'hijackers' lived with a man with close ties with the FBI.

My undignified opinion is that the 'highackers' were a collection of bums who were paid incredibly well to do very little, mostly to be at certain places and at certain times....
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