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Afghanistan - Pakistan : Latest Developments
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Rom



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Afghan Heroin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan
This amounts to an export value of about $4 billion, with a quarter being earned by opium farmers and the rest going to district officials, insurgents, warlords, and drug traffickers.[3] In the seven years (1994–2000) prior to a Taliban opium ban, the Afghan farmers' share of gross income from opium was divided among 200,000 families.[4] In addition to opiates, Afghanistan is also the largest producer of hashish in the world.[5][6]

Profits from mining?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Afghanistan
In November 2007, a 30-year lease was granted the development of a copper mine at Mes Aynak in Logar Province to the China Metallurgical Group for $3 billion,

Some large deposits of metal worth $3 or $10 billions is of minor interest compared to a profit of $1 billion from opium from a small investment. Gold mining is almost not profitable.
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bri



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, video won't embed properly.
Apparently it's from October of last year.
No facts here, but it sure rings true. Laughing

</iframe>
Could The Use Of Flying Death Robots Be Hurting America's Reputation Worldwide?
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


A week ago I wrote:

Quote:
Group Of 'Drunk' Soldiers Killed Afghan Civilians Say Witnesses

Neighbors and relatives of the dead said a group of US soldiers arrived at
one of three villages in the Panjwai district of Kandahar Province at about
2am, entered homes and opened fire.

Haji Samad told Reuters 11 of his relatives were killed in one house, including his children.

"They (Americans) poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned
them
," a weeping Samad said at the scene. Neighbors said they awoke to
crackling gunfire from American soldiers, whom they described as
laughing and drunk.

"They were all drunk and shooting all over the place," said neighbor Agha
Lala, who visited one of the homes where the incident took place. "Their
bodies were riddled with bullets."


Jan Agha, 20, told Reuters that American soldiers entered the family home
as he lay on the floor, pretending to be dead.

"My mother was shot in her eye and her face. She was unrecognisable.
My brother was shot in the head and chest and my sister was killed, too."

Another witness, Agha Lala, who is in his 40s, said he was awoken by
gunfire at about 02:00.

"I watched them from a wall for a while. Then they opened fire on me. The
bullets hit the wall. They were laughing. They did not seem normal. It was
like they were drunk," he said.


President Hamid Karzai's office, said in a statement he had spoken by
telephone to a young boy who was wounded in the shootings who also
described how American soldiers had entered his house and opened fire
on his family.

http://fintandunne.blogspot.com/2012/03/group-of-drunk-soldiers-killed-afghan.html


A few days ago, I wrote:

Quote:
I felt from the start that if a group of soldiers had been involved in
killing the civilians, there would be a very strong motivation for the US
military to cover that up and construct a "lone rogue soldier" story.

Given the dire state of the US campaign in Afghanistan, and the level
of public anger --even before this incident-- it would have been a military
priority
to halt a tale of murders by a group of soldiers.

That kind of story getting out would result in service member deaths and
huge political fallout which might lead to a reduction in military operations.

So I figured we had very high cover-up motivation. Link


Well, those early indications have firmed up into some damning
evidence collected by an official Afghan parliamentary inquiry:


Quote:



Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath – Afghan probe

Published: 16 March, 2012, 11:33 - Edited: 17 March, 2012, 03:42

An Afghan parliamentary investigation team has implicated up to 20 US
troops in the massacre of 16 civilians
in Kandahar early on Sunday
morning. It contradicts NATO's account that insists one rogue soldier was
behind the slaughter.

The team of Afghan lawmakers has spent two days collating reports from
witnesses, survivors and inhabitants
of the villages where the tragedy took
place.

“We are convinced that one soldier cannot kill so many people in two
villages within one hour at the same time, and the 16 civilians, most of
them children and women, have been killed by the two groups,”
investigator Hamizai Lali told Afghan News.

Lali also said their investigations led them to believe 15 to 20 US soldiers
had been involved in the killings
. He appealed to the international
community to ensure that the responsible parties were brought to justice,
stressing the Afghan parliament would not rest until the killers were
prosecuted.

"If the international community does not play its role in punishing the
perpetrators, the Wolesi Jirga [parliament] would declare foreign troops as
occupying forces,” he said.

The head of the Afghan parliamentary investigation, Sayed Ishaq Gillani,
told the BBC that witnesses report seeing helicopters dropping chaff during
the attack, a measure used to hide targets from ground attack
.

Gillani added that locals suspect the massacre was revenge for attacks
carried out last week on US forces
that left several injured.

http://rt.com/news/massacre-kandahar-soldier-american-705/

I can't see this going away in a hurry. It's going to get worse.
RT and Press TV are reporting it. Many Islamic media outlets also.

The lone nut maneuver was rolled out pronto - with the patsy
being shipped back stateside quickly to cement that story.

Waiting to see if McClatchy or AFP run with this. It's a hot potato.

Afghanistan's 'My Lai' looms - with big fallout for Obama & US Military.

Any further details - please post.

Quote:



Probe team: Women sexually assaulted before killing in Panjwai

Before the gun attack, US soldiers physically manhandled the two
women and later turned their weapons on the helpless residents


By Absin Zaheer

US soldiers were alleged to have sexually assaulted two female victims
before they were killed in the Panjwai massacre in southern Kandahar last
Sunday, a high-level Afghan probe team revealed.


The Wolesi Jirga’s, or lower house of Parliament, delegation investigating
the Kandahar shootings by US troops said besides killing 16 civilians, the
soldiers sexually assaulted them.

On the ill-fated Sunday, US troops shot 16 civilians, including nine children
and three women, and injured five others when they opened fire on
houses in Zangabad village, in Panjwai district.

Some of the victims’ bodies were later set on fire.

The Wolesi Jirga members jointly probing the Panjwai episode, along with
a government team, on Saturday presented their chilling findings to the
general session of the Parliament.

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2012/03/17/probe-team-women-sexually-assaulted-before-killing-in-panjwai.html

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Last edited by Fintan on Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:24 am; edited 3 times in total
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mainstream Media : Doncha just luv 'em:

Quote:
Many seem willing to cut Afghan shooting suspect some slack;
‘good guy in the wrong place’


By Associated Press, .......

Yeah, just a lone nut. Guy snapped. Could happen to anyone.

The hard facts are that an Afghan official parliamentary investigation
team on Thursday said up to 20 American troops were involved in
Sunday's killing.


That team spent two days in the province, interviewing the bereaved
families, tribal elders, survivors and collecting evidence at the site in
Panjwai district. Two members of the team, Hamidzai Lali and Afghan MP
Shakiba Hashemi have given media interviews confirming their findings.

Nothing about the findings on AlJazeera, by the way.

However, the UK Independent has just headlined the findings and
conducted further inquiries. Their report shows the rape allegations
to be uncertain, but they confirm earlier reports of multiple different
soldier boot footprints
. Adding that multiple weapons were used
-based likely on calibers of entry wounds and spent rounds.

Two villages. 16 dead.

Bodies piled in a heap and burned? (Sounds like concealment panic)

All in an hour, by one guy.

We are accumulating damning evidence that this tale is a total lie.


Quote:
New claims emerge about Afghan killing
MP sent to investigate massacre suggests two
women were raped but others deny her claim

LIANNE GUTCHER KABUL MONDAY 19 MARCH 2012

A new and potentially damaging row broke out in Afghanistan yesterday after a member of the team investigating last week's massacre of 16 people, allegedly by US soldier Robert Bales, said two of the female victims had been sexually assaulted.

Shakiba Hashimi, a member of the delegation sent to Kandahar province to examine the shootings, told reporters the women were "dishonoured", suggesting they may have been raped.

There was ambiguity, however, after Sayeed Mohammad Akhund, another delegation member, said that while the women's clothes had been removed, they were not sexually assaulted. Elders from Panjwai district, where the murders took place, also said the women were not sexually abused and that Kabul MPs claiming this were doing so for their own political purposes.....

Five Afghan MPs and other dignitaries were sent to Panjwai by President Hamid Karzai after Bales apparently left his camp and killed 16 civilians. While US investigators say he acted alone, the Afghan delegation found that up to 20 soldiers in two groups took part in the killings and had helicopter support.

Mr Akhund told The Independent that numerous different footprints, and evidence of "various types of American weapons" being used, indicated more than one perpetrator. The British ambassador to Afghanistan, Sir William Patey, tweeted yesterday: "Reports of more than one gunman involved in Kandahar killings simply not true."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/new-claims-emerge-about-afghan-killing-7576846.html

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leon



Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 1046
Location: 3d-rate nation

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan be used to occupy former Soviet Asian Republics?

An interesting opinion by KGB Analyst Panarin.
http://www.panarin.com/comment/16344/ (in russian)

According to Panarin, MI6 is preparing a covert plan to use NATO troops withdrawal from Afghanistan as a pretext to occupy former Soviet Asian Republics in Fergana Valley in the spring of 2013. Tony Blair is named as the primary coordinator for the operation. Currently Tony Blair is serving as a consultant to Kazakhstan president Nazarbaev.

MI6 is doing its best to stop Euro-Asian integration process that is well underway. Code name for the operation is “Fergana Spring”
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Rom



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us not think Igor Panarin is anything else than a high level freemason with knowledge about Illuminati planning. What he says about US being divided into 6 parts is something "Svali" too easily could communicate (with no political education). It it easy to perform analysis when you cheat all the time. Panarin would not live long if told the whole truth and blamed the cabal in a more true way than "The British/MI6".
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leon



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Panarin would not live long.."

Perhaps a little longer then that unfortunate MI6 code breaker? Or that Russian double-agent that got Radioactive Polonium with a cup of tea?

Maybe KGB knows a little how to protect their own.
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duaneh



Joined: 26 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan,

I'm surprised that during the flight out of Afghanistan, after being properly identified and giving a signed and video-taped confession, the "fall guy" didn't accidentily fall out of the plane at some unknown location over the Indian Ocean.

problem solved
these guys must be slipping...

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


US SOLDIERS WARNED AFGHANS
OF REVENGE OVER IED ATTACK


The mainstream media continues to downplay allegations that many
soldiers were involved in the Kandahar, Afghanistan village massacre.


Their blind spot continues despite the claims coming from reputable critics:
an Afghan parliamentary inquiry report and even the Chief of Staff of the
Afghan army.

Quote:
The Afghan Army Chief of Staff says the slaughter of 16 civilians,
including nine children, in Kandahar province was a premeditated
assassination carried out by a number of servicemen
, RIA Novosti
reports, citing Afghan media. Link

Saying he had personally visited the villages where the slaughter took
place, the General stressed he had repeatedly demanded to meet with the
suspect Robert Bales
but was turned down cold. Then Bales was spirited
out of Afghanistan as part of an alleged cover up. Link

Local residents told the parliamentary inquiry team that there had been
threats of revenge from US soldiers - following an IED attack on NATO.

Quote:
Shakiba Hashami, another delegation member, .... quoting local residents,
said ahead of the tragedy, there was a blast in the area and foreign troops
had warned of revenge killings
.
http://www.pajhwok.com/en/2012/03/17/women-sexually-assaulted-being-killed-investigators

It is unclear if the IED attack is the one which has been referenced in
media accounts that the alleged perpretrator Sgt. Bales had seen the
leg of a friend blown off the day before the attack on the village.

Sgt. Bales has since corrected those media accounts. He told his lawyer
the incident was two days before - and that he did not actually witness
the IED attack - only the aftermath.

Quote:
During the meeting, Browne said Bales confirmed a story first recounted
by Bales' family, that a friend's leg had been blown off by a roadside
bomb. Bales' clarified that it happened two days prior to the Afghan
shootings, not hours before
as had first been reported, and that he did
not witness the explosion but saw the aftermath. Link

A chilling analysis by veteran British reporter, Robert Fisk highlights how
the mainstream media has also carefully forgotten that the US army's top
commander in Afghanistan, General John Allen tried to head off exactly
such a revenge attack by US forces for casualties they suffered during
the ongoing public backlash over the Koran burning and other incidents.

Quote:
I'm getting a bit tired of the "deranged" soldier story.

The Afghan narrative has been curiously lobotomised – censored, even –
by those who have been trying to explain this appalling massacre in
Kandahar. They remembered the Koran burnings – when American
troops in Bagram chucked Korans on a bonfire – and the deaths of six
Nato soldiers, two of them Americans, which followed.

But blow me down if they didn't forget – and this applies to every single
report on the latest killings – a remarkable and highly significant
statement from the US army's top commander in Afghanistan, General
John Allen, exactly 22 days ago
....

Allen told his men that "now is not the time for revenge for the deaths of
two US soldiers killed in Thursday's riots". They should, he said, "resist
whatever urge they might have to strike back" after an Afghan soldier
killed the two Americans.

"There will be moments like this when you're searching for the meaning of
this loss
," Allen continued. "There will be moments like this, when your
emotions are governed by anger and a desire to strike back. Now is not
the time for revenge, now is the time to look deep inside your souls,
remember your mission, remember your discipline, remember who you
are.
"

Now this was an extraordinary plea to come from the US commander in
Afghanistan. The top general had to tell his supposedly well-disciplined,
elite, professional army not to "take vengeance"
on the Afghans they are
supposed to be helping/protecting/nurturing/training, etc.

He had to tell his soldiers not to commit murder. I know that generals
would say this kind of thing in Vietnam. But Afghanistan? Has it come to this?

I rather fear it has. Because – however much I dislike generals – I've met
quite a number of them and, by and large, they have a pretty good idea of
what's going on in the ranks.

And I suspect that Allen had already been warned by his junior officers
that his soldiers had been enraged by the killings that followed the Koran
burnings – and might decide to go on a revenge spree
. Hence he tried
desperately – in a statement that was as shocking as it was revealing – to
pre-empt exactly the massacre which took place last Sunday.

Yet it was totally wiped from the memory box by the "experts" when they
had to tell us about these killings. No suggestion that General Allen had
said these words was allowed into their stories, not a single reference

because, of course, this would have taken our staff sergeant out of the
"deranged" bracket and given him a possible motive for his killings.

As usual, the journos had got into bed with the military to create a
madman rather than a murderous soldier. Poor chap. Off his head.
Didn't know what he was doing.

No wonder he was whisked out of Afghanistan at such speed......

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-madness-is-not-the-reason-for-this-massacre-7575737.html

It's a bizarre situation. The US reality machine is willfully blind to all this.

Leaving it to foreign media and internet forums to probe the truth.

Quote:



If then a squad of U.S. soldiers was involved--upon orders--then the
question arises how the command and the U.S. political leadership decided
to single out Staff Sergeant Robert Bales.

Is he the one who is willing to "take it for the team," who, in exchange for
a deal, is going to cooperate with the one-lonely--snapped-soldier-on the-
3'o clock-long-hike narrative?

And/or is it because his personal profile lent itself to the most exploitable
sympathy-arousing sentiments (3+1 tours, PTSD, daughters, wife, etc.)?

The intense rush to cover this up also strongly indicates (together with
Bales's task to give protection to special operations) that the U.S. is,
indeed, covering up for its cherished and elitist special forces soldiers
whose modus operandi requires a nearly absolute immunity guaranteed
by their government.

The refusal to give his name soon also appears to point to a process of a
careful PR and political selection of the one who would stand for the whole
group.

How the U.S. is going to treat this case will be a critical test (if not a
turning point) on the road of turning toward a fuller blown fascist regime.

...The U.S. military and the U.S. media limited the voices of the victims,
the witnesses, and the survivors to the least possible amount. And, in the
last several days, they already began completely ignoring them.

The same blackout is being extended to the sites of the massacres. And
a similar treatment is now also being given to the Afghan high officials.


The reaction to the latest statements of the Afghan high officials by the
U.S. military and NATO, as reported, has been: "No comments."
"We have nothing more to say." "There is nothing more to say."

In one of the first news about the presence of the helicopters, the ISAF
declared that these helicopters were supposedly part of the rescue
operations assisting the survivors! This means that the presence of the
helicopters was actually acknowledged. Now, it should not be that difficult
to establish the timeline and to see when exactly and how were the
wounded survivor handled and assisted. That's just one of the many
critical details, which are completely ignored by the well paid news media
professionals.

http://rt.com/news/kandahar-massacre-counterinsurgency-operation-805/comments/


Quote:
Links:
http://de.rian.ru/society/20120317/263085763.html
http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?p=133655
http://oefkia.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-03-08T07:21:00-05:00&max-results=18

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IronClad



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Posts: 435
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/patrick-cockburn-the-strange-forgettability-of-some-civilian-massacres-7576284.html

This article will make you think particularly the ending. When soldiers are armed and civilians and insurgents all look alike there must be a sense of power, may be at the same time fear and may be a wonder what you are doing in the country. Armies are for war fighting other armies not for fighting folk who look like civilians.

Even after the cold-blooded murder of Palestinian old men, women and children and babies it did not change anything. The world was not shocked. The world has become immune to it.

What never changes is the lack of respect armies or the public have for weakness, even when they are the innocent. It is as though we have no sympathy for weakness. It is your own fault that you are killed. You are weak.

What have we become?

Nothing will change in Afghanistan after this mass murder of 16 people said to be women and children and afterward set on fire. Call it murder because that is what it is. It will be a surprise if the guy ever gets on death row.

He undoubtedly had no respect for the people and was allegedly absorbed in his own personal problems. No it was not battle fatigue. There were no constant battles as in the great wars. It was probably most of the time killing time and being cooped up with too much mass testosterone for long periods.

An army sitting around in a town or city amongst a civilian society wearing army uniforms without a war to go to. Peace time without peacemakers. What the hell are they doing there. Is this what they ask themselves daily?

Where are the peacemakers? Hearts and minds. The British are known for it. The British discarded their helmets for more casual wear. May be it was because they wanted to appear more confident of what they knew what they were doing exercising hearts and minds and wanted to show the people their soft side. The invasion was over. It was time for peace making.

How can soldiers who are on "battle stations" all the time exercise a hearts and minds policy. How can they do that fully geared up for a fight - looking for a fight or simply attracking one? They are out, on patrol and ready to engage. You see the western media are always on about the Taliban. What motivate them? What keeps them going? What keeps them willing to fight? None of these question have any explanation. They have the American troops pinned down. Whose winning?

The Americans know how to invade and to engage the enemy but their politicians know nothing of making the peace. Their army have been left to kill or be killed. That is working out to be never ending.

It took 58,000 dead young Americans and a million or so Vietnamese women and children to die and a few student protesters to die and the intervention of one news reporter before the American people woke up.

This is what I was talking about before. It was not respect for the Vietnamese people that stopped the war. It was not the 58,000 young Americans who died that stopped the war. It was simply time.

The public had got tied of the war and it had run its course.

A small number of coffins are being expatriated [yes, the description used by the British media] and we don't even bat an eye-lid. It's only a few hundred, after all.

So, the latest 16 women and children are not going to make any difference. It isn't time yet.
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Southpark Fan



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Afghan killings ‘were by team of US soldiers’
Posted on March 20, 2012
“In four rooms people were killed, children and women were killed, and then they were all brought together in one room and then put on fire; that one man cannot do.”
Mar 19, 2012 | gulf-times.com


'“After our investigations, we came to know that the killings were not carried out by one single soldier. More than a dozen soldiers went, killed the villagers and then burnt the bodies,” lawmaker Naheem Lalai Hameedzai claimed'

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IronClad



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want the truth?
We can all handle the truth.
We have been told the gruesome details and much of the evidence, if it goes to trial, will be photographic.
So we were ready for the gruesome images but where are they?
No parent would have been adverse to their kids surfing the BBC cite and coming across the images. The images told us nothing. One could have been captioned "family living in car". The nearest we got was ashes inside a dwelling and a patch of what one's own imagine will think is blood.

This could have been alarming to the public. More alarmng than it is today. And it should have been if the intention had been for a dramatic effect. Again, its implanting ideas in the public minds without special effects.

This incident has been under-played. A full exposure has not been made but does it need to be. Our imaginations are working overtime. Seeing is believing and we have not seen anything yet.
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Rom



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a massacre like this occurs - how will controlled media (or IronClad) react? Wikipedia is also controlled media. Here is how they present My Lai today: First the facts about My Lai. Facts, basic facts, more facts, additional facts, detailed facts, facts about facts ...

"Rescue helicopter crew Warrant Officer One Hugh Thompson, Jr. - helicopter pilot who confronted the ground forces personally. Died 6 January 2006. Specialist Four Glenn Andreotta - crew chief. Killed In Action: 8 April 1968. Specialist Four Lawrence Colburn - door gunner."

I have not cared to count how many names of officers and journalists mentioned, there must be a hundred names - everything to make sure the big picture is obscured.
Then Wikipedia presents the conclusion that is formulated like a "fact" ... "some people say", in this case a "General" .... no, "Commanding General" ... no
"South Korean Vietnam Expeditionary Forces Commanding Officer General Chae Myung Shin" ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
"Effects and analysis
.... Defense establishment. South Korean Vietnam Expeditionary Forces Commanding Officer General Chae Myung Shin remarked, "Calley tried to get revenge for the deaths of his troops. In a war, this is natural."[53]"
----------

(those who doubt claim "In a war, this is natural" may verify claim it by checking footnote [53] for citation of course ... Wikipedia is just telling the "truth" :(

Wikipedia makes a lie look like a "scientific fact". When Wikipedia lies they will mix the lie with as much irrelevant factual elements as possible.

Actually, US used terror systematically in Vietnam (see "Phoenix") (the whole war was a elitist war contrary to Kennedy's values). 20.000? civilians were assassinated by death squads (one may wonder why that factual information is missing in the My Lai story? Because Wikipedia is sensored)

Most of what the controlled media were reporting were cover-ups. The My Lai-case became more a story of cover-ups?

cover-up = new lies to support old lies
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IronClad



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We still have controlled media and to avoid making a leap of faith I'd like to know beforehand whether I need to make any leap of faith. Evidence.
Where is the evidence. They have whisked their man off back to the States which is an implication the story is true. That's all there is. OK, it may be enough.

The point I was making is that they could have made this thing stick by showing some of the images depicting the acts which are alleged to have taken place. We got the sanitised version. Why?
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