Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[Yurik]

this is very cool check this out.

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page

[leon]

Which part is "cool" - the Solar heat collector? or 17-century piston steam engine? I agree, they are cool as in cold as in corpse.

[leon]

I don’t know who their audience is, but I bet mostly wide-open eye school kids wanting to impress their teachers at next science fair. Any self-respecting engineer will tell you that solar heat collector, unless you are willing to invest billions of dollars, will be good to make a hot shower on a sunny day, not to drive any meaningful machinery. They would also tell you that steam turbine is way superior to piston machine. You go to Chicago or New York and will probably still find those individual turbines and boilers in 150 year old houses (coal operated) and with some repair still capable of producing electricity. Way cooler than anything you find on wikishmedia.

[leon]

Also, all those very inefficient individual machines will be much more harmful to the environment than nuclear power units. Let’s say you managed to land one of those real steam turbines. After a few frustrating experiments you soon realize there is no way to drive it from solar long enough to click “I like” on the Facebook.

So, what’s your next move? Why, wood of course (or better charcoal).

That’s exactly how Haiti got screwed with total deforestation, since nobody could afford tank of propane and everybody likes hot food (Facebook be damned).

[Yurik]

so whats the answer?

[leon]

The only answer is higher energy-flux density, amount of KWH produced per hour, per square mile of territory, per kilo of source material.

The history of humanity progress is the history of ever increasing energy-flux density: from burning wood to burning charcoal, from charcoal to coal, from coal to oil, from oil to nuclear fission, from nuclear fission to nuclear fusion, from nuclear fusion to matter-antimatter controlled annihilation reaction.

If we weren't frozen in our technological progress somewhere in the 70s, we would have compact-enough nuclear fusion reactors to power if not cars, but high-speed trains moving at 800 miles per hour in evacuated tubes.

Here is what we could do immediately:


Thorium-based liquid salt breeder reactors and Fischer-Tropsch process solution for all our energy needs

From: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2491667

What is Thorium? It's a fertile material. That means that when struck by a neutron in a reactor it transmutes via a nuclear process to an element that is capable of fission. Note that Thorium itself is not fissionable - that is, it will not (directly) split and release energy. Instead it captures thermal neutrons and turns into Uranium-233. U-233 is fissile.
Consider this: There is 13 times as much energy in coal in the form of Thorium as there is available by burning the coal, and right now we literally throw it away in the ash pile!
There is a type of nuclear reactor that utilizes this fuel cycle. Instead of the traditional nuclear reactor which uses water as a moderator and coolant (either a boiling or pressurized water reactor) these reactors use a liquid salt. In the vernacular they're called "LFTR"s, pronounced "Lifter."

You've probably never heard of them. But they're not pie in the sky dreams. US ran one for nearly four years in the 1960s at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. It was scrapped in favor of the traditional uranium fuel cycle we use today because the fuel it produces is very difficult to exploit for nuclear weapons, and it breeds fuel at a slow rate. The natural process of the nuclear reactions in the core of such a unit produces a byproduct that is a very strong gamma emitter that is difficult to separate from the other reaction products. For this reason - and because we wanted both nuclear power and nuclear weapons - we built the infrastructure for uranium and plutonium rather than thorium.
Thorium-based reactors have several significant advantages and a few disadvantages. We have much less experience with LFTRs than traditional nuclear power, simply because we stopped working with them for political and war-fighting reasons. They use a fluoride salt which is quite reactive when in contact with water, but the reactivity is a bonus in all other respects, because it tends to encapsulate the reaction products (the nasty fission products that you don't want in the environment) through that same chemical process. It runs at a much higher temperature (typically 650C) than a traditional reactor and unlike a traditional reactor the fuel and the working fluid is the same - there are no fuel rods that can melt and release their nasty fission product elements, as the fuel is dispersed in the coolant.

Finally, the unit is intrinsically safe. It does not require high pressure; the working fluid and coolant is a liquid at ordinary atmospheric pressure. This gets rid of the need for high-pressure pumps, pipes and similar materials. Without the moderator the reactivity is insufficient to sustain a chain reaction, and the moderator is in the reactor vessel itself through which the fuel/coolant is pumped, so criticality is impossible outside of the reactor vessel and inside the vessel the fuel and coolant are the same, and a liquid. The working fluid is contained in the reactor loop by an actively-cooled plug. If power is lost cooling ceases and the plug melts; the working fluid then drains into tanks by gravity under the reactor and cools into a solid, as it cannot maintain criticality outside of the reactor itself (there's no moderator in the tank or the plumbing.) As the fuel is in the fluid, there is no core to melt as occurred in Japan and being dispersed over a much larger area the working fluid naturally cools from liquid to solid without forced pumping and cooling. This safety feature was regularly tested in the unit at Oak Ridge - they literally turned off the power on the weekends and simply went home!
One final piece of information: The Germans figured out how to turn coal into synfuel - gasoline and diesel - before WWII. This process, called Fischer-Tropsch, requires energy to drive it and is currently in commercial use in some places that have a lot of coal but little or no oil, such as South Africa. Malaysia also has an operating plant. Typical operating temperatures for this process are in the neighborhood of ~350C.
Let us assume we consume twice the fuel content of the coal extracting the thorium. We have 11x the original energy left (once in combustion of the coal, and 10x in thorium energy content.)

We will then use the Fischer-Tropsch process to turn the coal into synfuel - gasoline and diesel. We will be rather piggish about efficiency (that is, presume we're not efficient at all) and assume we put in twice as much energy as the coal contains in fuel content converting it. Since the process heat from the reactor is of higher quality (higher temperature) than the Fischer-Tropsch reaction requires by a good margin, we can do so directly without first converting to electricity (which would introduce more losses.)

We now have all of our gasoline and diesel fuel, and we also have 8x the original BTU content of the coal left in thorium energy content.

All is what required is political will and some 100 years 1% Federal Bonds discounted by Federal Reserve. Will create approximately 5 million Union wages jobs in US and pay for itself by reducing Imperial Oil region policing operations by the Pentagon. Not to speak of we will finally stop killing the people in the name of controlling the world oil flow by few Multinationals. To me it sounds a hell of a lot better than saving some pitifull pennies by putting 50 million Americans on $17/week or $2.43/day grocery ration

[Rom]

Leon
"Not to speak of we will finally stop killing the people in the name of controlling the world oil flow by few Multinationals. "

A lot of biases here

1. US killed millions in Iraq (and other places) to get hold of their oil (not true)
2. US is in desperate need for oil
3. Some "few multinational" (oil) companies are running US politics

From where have you learned all this stupidity? LaRouche ... or someone else? (you should tell that since most of you knowledge is "copy and paste")

[leon]

Yurik,
Please pay attention to all “home-based” decentralized power solutions and take a note that they are all between 1Kwh to 5Kwh (sometimes 10) power units if not outright play-models not even producing 1Kwh. Also, you’d notice their advertised price is in the range between 3 to 5 thousand dollars, calculated to exact amount unenlightened sucker could afford to lose.

I am not saying they are all outright fraud, but very close to it since none of those devices creates a robust and reliable power supply neither for your house or business.

I am laughing at say Alex Jones ads of “Solar power generator” that represents a very bad model of power inverter (which I had a stupidity to buy) and a weak solar panel. That toy, at the height of its life cycle (which in my case was 6 months and after I could not get spare parts to repair it) will be good enough to run your IPod, but that’s it.

The closest solar panel house functional power system I’ve seen with 16 panels, 3.5 KWH power inverter and Sun-tracking rack was close to $64,000 US dollars. It does work and is good for house lights (of the power-save mode), refrigerator and TV. (No AC).

[leon]

I can’t help thinking that the Greenie drive for decentralized power solutions or “alternative distribution coops” is similar to the Imperial drive to break up and weaken the Nation States.

Both drives are designed to freeze technological and scientific progress and as a result, decrease overall productivity of the population making it more controllable and poor.

That is THEIR agenda and they are trying as hell to make it OUR agenda using usual propaganda tools. Stay smart, use your common sense.

Don’t die an idiot.

[Yurik]

Hey Leon I'm into that stuff too. the Thorium based reactors and it would be very cool if we had our own nuke power stations. I'm not anti-nuclear. Non-weaponized nuclear energy is the way to go.

at the same time. I like mechanics don't like how everything is electronically based. lol welcome to the last 35 years. I know. thats the angle I'm coming from.

[leon]

"I like mechanics don't like how everything is electronically based"

Well, you should go to Russia, they still have intercontinental ballistic missiles flying on gyroscopes. On the bright side, they should be more impervious to EMP shock. The precision is down to hundreds of meters, but when carrying 20 megaton thermonuclear warehead who cares?

P.S. Russia now have it's own GPS system based on their very own satellites.

[sushil_yadav]

Nuclear Experts giving a clean chit to Nuclear Projects is like….

America giving clean chit to invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan......Monsanto giving clean chit to GM crops.....Union Carbide giving clean chit to Warren Anderson.....Rapists giving clean chit to Rape.....Murderers giving clean chit to Murder.....Alcoholics giving clean chit to Alcohol.....Smokers giving clean chit to Cigarettes.

Nuclear Experts will always give clean chit to nuclear projects........always....... always......always.

Nuclear Experts will always give approval to nuclear projects........always....... always......always.

Nuclear Experts will always give green signal to nuclear projects........always....... always......always.

There are thousands of nuclear professionals working with Nuclear Industry.......If nuclear projects are stopped, if nuclear industry is stopped they will become jobless/ unemployed........so they will always give approval to nuclear projects.......always.....always....always.

Every Political Party in this world is promoting Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP......which requires setting up of more and more Power Plants.....more and more Nuclear Power Plants.

Every Political Party has become an Eco-Killer, Eco-Murderer and Eco-Terrorist.

Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth.

Claiming that nuclear plants are Not Harmful is like claiming that the Sun is Not Hot.

Height of Insanity….........Insanity raised to the power of Infinity.

"Demand for energy is rising.....therefore we need more Power Plants.....more Nuclear Power Plants".

Who made this rule.....Which Idiot made this rule?????

Rising demand for energy has destroyed all ecosystems.

Excessive use of energy has destroyed all ecosystems.

Demand for energy has to be minimized.......Not fulfilled.

This planet can provide energy for simple living…..not for consumerist living.

This planet can provide resources for simple living…..not for consumerist living.

This planet can provide energy & resources for food, clothing and shelter....not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

Nuclear Material is harmful wherever it exists…..Nuclear Mines...Nuclear Power Plants… Nuclear Ships… Nuclear Submarines… Nuclear Satellites…Nuclear Weapons..…....its very existence is harmful.

Exposure to Nuclear Radiation leads to Death...Cancer...Multiple Organ Failures...Genetic Mutations...Physical Deformities...Mental Abnormalities........For generations to come.

Industrial Society continues to spread the blatant lie.....

that another Chernobyl, another Fukushima will not happen,

that another Gulf Oil Disaster, another Bhopal Gas Tragedy will not happen.

Blatant lie, blatant lie....

As long as industry exists industrial accidents will continue to happen.
They will only get bigger and bigger.

Bigger the industry bigger the industrial accident.

Nuclear material is the most dangerous, toxic and hazardous thing on earth.

It was burried deep under the earth.

Man brought it to the surface, refined it to create thousands of tonnes of the most toxic substance that will remain radioactive for thousands of years - and is using it all over the world.

Once created nuclear material keeps poisoning humans, animals, plants, air, water and soil for thousands of years.

Nuclear material has poisoned /contaminated the entire planet.
There are 500 Nuclear Power Plants, Hundreds of Nuclear Weapons producing sites, thousands of Nuclear Research Centers, Hundreds of Nuclear Powered Ships and Submarines, Hundreds of Nuclear Powered Satellites.

The land, the water, the air....... The entire planet has been poisoned.

Nuclear material is the most dangerous material - it should not even be created - it should not even be brought into existence.

Everyone comes to know about Aeroplane Accidents, Car Accidents and Train Accidents .........because they are visible.

Nuclear Accidents are different...... people only come to know about Nuclear Accidents which happen with big explosions. People do not come to know about silent Nuclear/ Radiation Leakages because they are invisible and can only be known to people who have access to Radiation Monitoring Equipment. These leakages don't get reported in the media because people who run nuclear facilities are not going to report themselves - they are not going to report their own crimes.

Thousands of accidents involving nuclear/ radiation leakages are happening every day but they are never reported. Soil, Water and Air are getting contaminated with nuclear radiation at thousands of places around the world every day.

Once created nuclear material keeps poisoning humans, animals, plants, air, water and soil for thousands of years.


"Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment"

[leon]

"Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction."

My ass smells like roses.....My ass smells like roses...Ooops, it's not my ass, it's Chanel #5

Are you guys from the same shop as "Rom"?

[leon]

"This planet can provide energy for simple living…..not for consumerist living"

Does posting meaningless shit on the Internet constitute "Consumerism"? If yes, I would strongly advise you to follow your own suggestions and live simply. You could start by using your computer for a flower pot and start pouring lots of sparkling clean water into it

[sushil_yadav]

I find it ironic that you have no concern/ compassion for Environment despite the fact that you owe your very existence to nature/ environment.

Why do you breathe the Air?
Why do you drink the Water?
Why do you eat the Food that comes from Soil? - Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Take all your technology to the Moon - and try producing a single grain of Food without using any natural ingredient from Earth.

In the absence of Nature your grandfather would'nt have lived.
In the absence of Nature your father would'nt have lived.
In the absence of Nature you would'nt have lived.

Show some respect to Nature.