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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1507
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ha, well the leer jet wasn't invented until the 20th c - but you know what i mean!!! Laughing
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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the other thing is this...

we and many others like us on similar forums or wherever we meet to discuss this kind of shit are completely unaware of or cannot reveal situations of underground movements and double-agent activity throughout the US and worldwide.

i'm not saying there's 100% chance of the military turning against the status-quo here. it would be a bad idea to assume that. but a coup could happen.

as for underground movements, in an armed sense, i don't think anyone of us doubt they exist... but as with all national crisis up-ending power, we never know what we got in place of the old until the dust settles.

i think people instinctively realize that, and is therefore the reason why it shouldn't be unleashed unless all else fails.

so while we comment on and condemn citizens for not changing their spending habits, it may merely be the fear of the unknown that keeps us all "in our place." it's also the reason why the govt can more easily sell a foreign war to the public over a war on its own turf. (besides, the insurance companies would hate that!!!)

red

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leon



Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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Location: 3d-rate nation

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"we and many others like us on similar forums or wherever we meet to discuss this kind of shit are completely unaware of or cannot reveal situations of underground movements and double-agent activity throughout the US and worldwide."

Don’t sweat the small stuff. There always have been and will be the paid agents among us. That is something new to western public, but completely familiar to people with different upbringing.
At the end it does not matter. What really matters is the consensus around the public on the set of demands, a common platform, a set of ideas that we put forward.
People of 19th century were much more educated about the matters of public policies and the ideal role of the government and the public sector in the life of society.
The 20th century fucked things up by introducing two artificial concepts: on one end its is “Free Capitalism” with its “Free markets” and “Free Trade”, on the other end it is “Socialism” with its rigid top-down governmental command and control structure.
Both systems are not real, they only exist in our minds supported by continues paid propaganda.
I submit to you as a starting point a set of concrete steps that could be taken today to avoid the coming disintegration of the society as we know it:

=========================================================
30 MILLION PRODUCTIVE JOBS TO REBUILD US INFRASTRUCTURE, INDUSTRY AND AGRICULTURE: THE PROGRAM TO END THE ECONOMIC DEPRESSION
by Webster G. Tarpley, www.tarpley.net
November 14, 2009
The US and the world are gripped by a deepening economic depression. There is no recovery and no automatic business cycle which will revive the economy. This bottomless depression will worsen until policies are reformed. The depression results from deregulated and globalized financial speculation, especially the $1.5 quadrillion world derivatives bubble. The US industrial base has been gutted, and the US standard of living has fallen by almost two thirds over the last four decades. We must reverse this trend of speculation, de-industrialization, and immiseration. Current policy bails out bankers, but harms working people, industrial producers, farmers, and small business. We must defend civil society and democratic institutions from the effects of high unemployment and economic breakdown. We therefore demand:
1. Measures to reduce speculation and minimize the burden of fictitious capital: End all bailouts of banks and financial institutions. Claw back the TARP and other public money given or lent to financiers. Abolish the notion of too big to fail; JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Citibank, Wells Fargo and other Wall Street zombie banks are insolvent and must be seized by the FDIC for chapter 7 liquidation, with derivatives eliminated by triage. Re-institute the Glass-Steagall firewall to separate banks, brokerages, and insurance. Ban credit default swaps and adjustable rate mortgages. To generate revenue and discourage speculation, levy a 1% Tobin tax (securities transfer tax or trading tax) on all financial transactions including derivatives (futures, options, indices, and over the counter derivatives), stocks, bonds, foreign exchange, and commodities, especially program trading, high-frequency trading, and flash trading. Set up a 15% reserve requirement for all OTC derivatives. Use Tobin tax revenue and a revived corporate income tax to provide immediate tax relief to individuals, families, the self-employed, and small business by increasing personal exemptions and standard deductions. Stop all foreclosures on primary residences, businesses, and farms for five years or the duration of the depression, whichever lasts longer. Set a 10% maximum rate of interest on credit cards and payday loans. Re-regulate commodities markets with 100% margin requirements, position limits, and anti-speculation protections for hedgers and end users to prevent oil and gasoline price spikes. Enforce labor laws and anti-trust laws against monopolies and cartels. Restore individual chapter 11.
2. Measures to nationalize the Federal Reserve, cut federal borrowing, and provide 0% federal credit for production: Seize the Federal Reserve and bring it under the US Treasury as the National Bank of the United States, no longer the preserve of unelected and unaccountable cliques of incompetent and predatory bankers. The size of the money supply, interest rates, and approved types of lending must be determined by public laws passed and debated openly, passed by the congress and signed by the president. Stop US government borrowing from zombie banks and foreigners -- let the US government function as its own bank. Reverse current policy by instituting 0% federal LENDING with preferential treatment for tangible physical production and manufacturing of goods and commodities, to include industry, agriculture, construction, mining, energy production, transportation, infrastructure building, public works, and scientific research, but not financial services and speculation. Issue successive tranches of $1 trillion as needed to create 30 million union-wage productive jobs and attain full employment for the first time since 1945, reversing the secular decline in the US standard of living. Provide 0% credit to reconvert idle auto and other plants and re-hire unemployed workers to build modern rail, mass transit, farm tractors, and aerospace equipment, including for export. Extend 0% federal credit for production to small businesses like auto and electronics repair shops, dry cleaners, restaurants, tailors, family farms, taxis, and trucking. Maintain commercial credit for retail stores. Create an unlimited rediscount guarantee by the National Bank for public works projects to provide cash to local banks for bills of exchange pertaining to infrastructure and public works. Repatriate the foreign dollar overhang by encouraging China, Japan, and other dollar holders to place orders for US-made capital goods and modern hospitals. Revive the US Export-Import Bank. Set up a 10% tariff to protect domestic re-industrialization. Nationalize and operate GM, Chrysler, CIT, and other needed but insolvent firms as a permanent public sector. Maintain Amtrak and USPS.
3. Measures to re-industrialize, build infrastructure, develop science drivers, create jobs, and restore a high-wage economy: state and local governments and special government agencies modeled on the Tennessee Valley Authority will be prime contractors for an ambitious program of infrastructure and public works subcontracted to the private sector. To deal with collapsing US infrastructure, modernize the US elgeneration, pebble bed, high temperature reactors of 1,000 to 2,000 megawatts each. Rebuild the rail system with 50,000 miles of ultra-modern maglev Amtrak rail reaching into every state. Rebuild the entire interstate highway system to 21st century standards. Rebuild drinking water and waste water systems nationwide. Promote canal building and irrigation. For health care, build 1,000 500-bed modern hospitals to meet the minimum Hill-Burton standards of 1946. Train 250,000 doctors over the next decade. The Davis-Bacon Act will mandate union pay scales for all projects. For the farm sector, provide a debt freeze for the duration of the crisis, 0% federal credit for working capital and capital improvements, a ban on foreclosures, and federal price supports at 110% of parity across the board, with farm surpluses being used for a new Food for Peace program to stop world famine and genocide. Working with other interested nations, invest $100 billion each in: biomedical research to cure dread diseases; high energy physics (including lasers) to develop fusion power and beyond; and a multi-decade NASA program of moon-Mars manned exploration, permanent colonization, and industrial production. These science drivers will provide the technological spin-offs to modernize the entire US economy in the same way that the NASA moon shot gave us microchips and computers in the 1960s. These steps will expand and upgrade the national stock of capital goods and enhance the real productivity of US labor. Return the federal budget and foreign trade to surplus in 5 years or less.
4. Measures to defend and expand the social safety net: Restore all cuts; full funding at improved levels for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, jobless benefits, WIC, Head Start, and related programs. Offer Medicare for All to anyone under 65 who wants it at $100 per person per month, with reduced rates for families, students, and the unemployed. Pay for this with Tobin tax revenues and TARP clawback, and by ending the Iraq and Afghan wars. Seek to raise life expectancy by five years for starters. No rationing or death panels; savings can come only by finding cures. Quickly reach a $15 per hour living wage. Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act and affirm the right to organize. Pass card check to promote collective bargaining.
5. Measures to re-launch world trade and promote world recovery: Create a new world monetary system including the euro, the yen, the dollar, and the ruble, plus emerging Arab and Latin American regional currencies, with fixed exchange rates and narrow bands of fluctuation enforced by participating governments. Institute clearing and gold settlement among member states. Replace the IMF with a Multilateral Development Bank to finance world trade and infrastructure. The goal of the system must be to re-launch world trade through exports of high-technology capital goods, especially to sub-Saharan Africa, south Asia, and the poorer parts of Latin America. Promote a world Marshall Plan of great projects of world infrastructure, including: a Middle East reconstruction and development program; plans for the Ganges-Bramaputra, Indus, Mekong, Amazon, and Nile-Congo river basins; bridge-tunnel combinations to span the Bering Strait, the Straits of Gibraltar, the Straits of Malacca, the Sicilian narrows, and connect Japan to the Asian mainland; second Panama canal and Kra canals; Eurasian silk road, Cape to Cairo/Dakar to Djibouti, Australian coastal, and Inter-American rail projects, and more. American businesses will receive many of these orders, which means American jobs.
This program will create 30 million jobs in less than five years. It will end the depression, rebuild the US economy, improve wages and standards of living, re-start productive investment, and attain full employment with increased levels of capital investment per job. Most orders placed under this program will go to US private sector bidders. Because of the vastly increased volume of goods put on the market, inflation will not result.
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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 700

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retracted ... HT to Fintan and fuck the media ... Wink

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2011/09/30/no-radiohead-serenade-at-wall-street-protest/

FYI,

After doing 2 nights at the Roseland Ballroom in NYC, Radiohead will be doing a free live show for the Wall Street protestors today a 4:00 PM EST. Way to go Radiohead ... finally a cause of Mr. Yorke's I can get behind ... cheers

- Hawk

Edit: should give you a little taste of how the band did this week ...


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Last edited by hawkwind on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how awesome for radiohead while in town promoting their new record, i guess.

red

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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 6580

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
700 Arrested After Wall Street Protest
on N.Y.'s Brooklyn Bridge


Published October 01, 2011
| Associated Press



Photos:
http://www.timesunion.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=1639977

http://www.timesunion.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=1639879

http://www.timesunion.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=1639978

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leon



Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 1046
Location: 3d-rate nation

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lack of the cohesive program is an obvious week point of the movement. For the young people the obvious first demand should be student loan amnesty. It used to take on average 24 weekly paychecks to pay for a year of college, now thanks to Wall Street scheming it takes over 50 weekly paycheck, a stunning inflation in a few decades.

So, STUDENT LOAN AMNESTY would be a good starting point, but that is not enough for the rest of the population. The second obvious demand should be the STOP ALL FRAUD CLOSURES and freeze all foreclosures at least for the duration of the Depression, or next 5 years.

And finally, stop attacks by reactionary Republicans and Obama on Social Safety net, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and others.

And how to pay for all of that? WALL STREET SALES TAX – 1% on ALL Financial turnovers.
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Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2265
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:36 am    Post subject: fair is fair Reply with quote

leon wrote:


And how to pay for all of that? WALL STREET SALES TAX – 1% on ALL Financial turnovers.


Or how about 50% tax on all transaction profits since they are all speculation-based and non-productive.

A trillion for them and a trillion for us....seems fair...

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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 6580

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hub police arrest 24 in protest vs. Bank of America

By John Zaremba - Saturday, October 1, 2011

Two dozen trespassing protesters were happily hauled off from Bank of
America’s downtown offices last night in a gesture of civil disobedience
against what they say are the leading lender’s unfair foreclosure practices.


“They wanted to be arrested, and we obliged,” Boston police Commissioner
Edward F. Davis
told the Herald last night as he stood on the outskirts of
Dewey Square, observing hundreds gathered in a rush-hour protest.
The crowd grew to an estimated 3,000 by nightfall.

None of those arrested at Bank of America resisted, Davis said.
“No trouble at all. It’s a great group.



Quote:
More launching near you: http://www.occupytogether.org/


Occupy Maine - rain or shine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoCKOPSenPY


Occupy Asheville, NC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8xTDvopzRIU

http://www.mountainx.com/article/35891/Occupy-Asheville-opens-with-assembly-march-plans-to-camp-out


Occupy Seattle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my0-m2_apZ8


Occupy Denver in front of Federal Reserve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ap6KEfVoZM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lop4HllGKcU


Occupy Austin, TX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53lsRCn4FHg



Occupy San Antonio, TX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INgl_jHkfm0&NR=1



Occupy Portland

http://vimeo.com/29899204



Occupy Los Angeles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZr5NS19mw0



Occupy San Francisco - Marines joining in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPQOU1KNF0U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIgP1FlqRnA



Occupy DC in starting protest against corporate personhood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uABmme8C_7c&feature=player_embedded



Occupy Chicago in front of the Federal Reserve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luON3CNuq3A&NR=1



Occupy Boston - "Fuck the Fed"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fV0YjQQzYk



Occupy Wall Street New York 500 arrested on Brooklyn Bridge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yULSI-31Pto

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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Occupy Wall Street

By Martin Armstrong - October 1st, 2011

The movement known as Occupy Wall Street has been going on since
September 17th, 2011. It is now showing to the world that the
constitutional rights of the American people do not exist. There is no right
to peaceful assembly and to see NYPD at its finest acting like communist
thugs, is a sign of the times and what awaits us on the horizon.

The Internet is the only real news any more for everything else is in some
way tainted. The majority of the news broadcasts are skipping this story
of covering it very, very little.

It is a shame that Wall Street gets all the blame.

It is not the stock brokers nor is it the “corporate greed” of every
corporation lumped together that is to blame. The corruption that has
turned the country inside-out is the Market Manipulators who for
decades now have been trying to rig the game to make that Perfect
Trade with no risk.

To me, they are not even real men. They hide behind the mask of Wall
Street when they are not part of the system at all. They are simply
parasites who lack the intelligence to actually trade and stand upon their
own research. Instead, they pay bribes to Russian officials to recall
platinum for a pretend inventory so they can screw the auto producers.

They are the Market Manipulators that move silver from New York to
London to pretend there is a shortage. They are the Market Manipulators
who bribe IMF officials to keep loans going to Russia so they can buy
bonds at 30% interest rates. They are the Market Manipulators that
constructed time bombs out of mortgages and ensured the rating
agencies would bless them as AAA so they could sell them to everyone.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. This is NOT Wall Street!

This is a dark back ally that feels safe because they control the press,
the courts, the Justice Department, Congress, and local police. They line
the pockets of politicians to run for office. They stack government with
their own people in unelected jobs.

In the end, it is not corporate greed, it is the greed of Market Manipulators
that are simply a parasite that feed upon the system and anyone who
dares to expose them, and they will attack with a vengeance using the
police powers of government and label what they say as conspiracy
theory to discredit their accusers.

Yes America

"Do not go gentle into that good night /
Rage, rage against the dying of the light"

of freedom and liberty as Dylan Thomas put so elegantly.

But rage wisely. Do not be fooled and attack the decoy. If you want
reform, know who your enemy truly is!

It is not Wall Street. It is the parasites that feed on it.

http://www.martinarmstrong.org/files/Occupy%20Wall%20Street%2010-01-2011.pdf

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leon



Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Or how about 50% tax on all transaction profits since they are all speculation-based and non-productive. "

The problem with profit-based tax is that the jackals will play all kinds of bookkeeping games and gimmicks.

Direct simple 1% turnover or Sales Tax or Tobin Tax - will be nuch better and much easier sell to American voters since they pay a hell of a more sales tax on THEIR neccesities while Wall Street gets away with almost ZERO Tax.

Besides, it is seriously under discussion in Europe (Germany and France).
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leon



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It is a shame that Wall Street gets all the blame"

100% agree. A lion share of blame should be placed on Neo-Liberal Ideology propagated by London-centric institutions around the world, such as Federal Reserve, CFR, Triletaral Commission, various "non-profits" foundations and their functionaries.
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Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: honesty is the best policy Reply with quote

Not the method so much as the idea Idea

My version of "income" tax would be a fixed %, declared and paid on the honor system. You declare your tax owed and you send the cheque....there is no IRS and no tax lawyers and no tax accountants. OTOH, all those industrious civil servants thusly employed are asked to "investigate" random claims to ensure that the "declared" taxable income of $25K matches with the 2 houses, 4 cars etc. They would be kept busy for a while, until everyone learned to be "honest".

I realize and accept that this is a pipe-dream, but one that I would like to lay, up-side the head, of more than a few of the financial leaches that plague our productive society. Evil or Very Mad

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leon



Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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Location: 3d-rate nation

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea that taxes should only fund the government and not used as a political leverage to steer the society into the types of activity that would benefit the society as a whole is absolutely ludicrous.
Taxes could and should be used to shift the Government funding burden from productive, creative activity onto the rent-seekers such as Financial Capital.
That means shifting the tax burden from the Labor and Industry onto Real Estate, Insurance and Finance Capital.
Tobin Tax is one of the most feasible instrument. Total Financial Activity in NY alone including the FX is around 1.4 quadrillion annually (turnaround, not profit). 1 % Tobin Tax would raise a hefty 14 trillion dollars per year.
Granted, it will not be that much since the Tobin Tax will somewhat put a break on rampant speculation, but not by much.
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Peter



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:53 pm    Post subject: a taxing exercise Reply with quote

I would think that nothing short of death (or murder as the case may be) would stop the rampant speculation. Wink

Taxing activity (like many VAT or goods and services taxes) rather than profit tends to squash innovation and productivity. Tobin et al surely know what will work best but as a small business owner, taxes really put the brakes on generating profits and even GST types create an administrative overburden and increased government bureaucracy.

Any change, OTOH, would be an improvement.

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