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Flight 93 - the McClatchey Photo
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Continuity



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1716
Location: Municipal Flat Block 18A, Linear North

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject: Here's an angle... Reply with quote

Here's an angle on '93 from a guy on letsroll911 forum who says he works at a USAF base, the thread's about contrails, but he had this to say about '93.
Quote:
Shanksville PA? Looks like a small tractor dug a ditch, poured some gas on it and burnt it off a few days prior to me. Maybe a crate of debris was placed in the center of the ditch and blown via remote to simulate a crash. Convienent it was all on goverment land.

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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allow me to post up the newer graphics stuff I did for Killtown:

This one is in response to some on his blog who insist the plume doesn't line up with the "hole" because my placement of McClatchey is off (it's not, btw). So, I did an analysis of "how far off" her location would have to be in order for the plume to line up. (Apparently the driveway/road junction and other objects referenced for alignment weren't enough for these 'skeptics', so I obliged them with more graphics work.)



In order to align the cloud with the govt's hole, she'd have to have been over 50 yards to her left (Eastward, into the wooded clearing, and behind a row of trees, with a small structure between her and the horizon.) In any case, my placement of her is most likely precise to within a foot or 18"maybe 2, at most.
........................................................................
The next batch of comments concerns the issue that - if the smoke cloud was a believable size (which it is not), could it have drifted into position where Val snapped the picture? I.e., could it have originated at the hole, and the prevailing 9 knot wind that morning (Nat. Weather Svc.) blew it into alignment with her camera angle?

For background, consider Val's story, in which she details that she took this shot (the only shot she took, btw) within "5 seconds" of hearing the blast, and rushing out her door, camera in hand.



A 756' drift at 15.19 feet/second (9 knots) would have taken closer to 50 seconds to complete. So, this is another problem with either the hole, the cloud, or Val's schtick.

I know this may seem like overkill to some of you here, but we're dealing with some people who are determined to prove my analysis incorrect. However, not quite as determined as I am to prove that it's factual.

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Last edited by Rumpl4skn on Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Continuity



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
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Location: Municipal Flat Block 18A, Linear North

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject: Errr.... Reply with quote

I'm with you on this one, Rump. Wink

The thing that caught my eye about the guy's post was his comment about the appearance of the 'ditch' and the debris and the fact that he said that it was Government land, which I hadn't previously read. (or mebbe I had, but couldn't remember)

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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Errr.... Reply with quote

Continuity wrote:
I'm with you on this one, Rump. Wink

The thing that caught my eye about the guy's post was his comment about the appearance of the 'ditch' and the debris and the fact that he said that it was Government land, which I hadn't previously read. (or mebbe I had, but couldn't remember)

I had read that way back in the day, maybe 2003 or so, but then never saw it repeated anywhere credible and never found any corroboration.

I'll have to check his post. Does he list a source for that info?

I also want to find out who lives on the farm just over the tree-line from Val's house. That seems to me to be where this cloud is originating from, plus there looks to be - via the satellite shot - what appears to be an old burn mark, precisely where this blast could have ocurred and precisely the diameter of the smoke plume's upward column.



Proves little - could be an old victory garden from WW2. But it's odd that it precisely conforms to the alignment and shaft diameter of that photo's mushroom cloud.

I'm traveling back there in a few weeks, and I'm going to poke around.

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Continuity



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
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Location: Municipal Flat Block 18A, Linear North

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

He says it here:

http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12410

about 1/3 down the page. Just search the page <Cntrl+F> for 'ditch'.

The thread's titled 'Debunking Chemtrails' over at the letsroll911 forum - worth a read IMHO, because I think that the way that this WxMan's thread progresses tells us a bit of a story about how they are going about trying to destroy the '9/11 Truth Movement'. Chekkit out....

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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The thread's titled 'Debunking Chemtrails' over at the letsroll911 forum - worth a read IMHO, because I think that the way that this WxMan's thread progresses tells us a bit of a story about how they are going about trying to destroy the '9/11 Truth Movement'. Chekkit out....


Thx C -

Classic disinfo dogpile.
At least WxMan gained some valuable insight into 'pod people', and we got another fine example of how the dance is choreographed.
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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked my ex-Navy pilot brother to weigh in on the Chemtrails thing a few months ago.

He reiterated my own feelings that "whomever who poison our air would poison their own." In his opinion, if there indeed was any chemical release from aircraft, the only scenario he could imagine and go for, would be the dumping of hazardous waste in remote areas.

Now that..... could be a lucrative business, considering the cost of toxic chemical disposal brought on by the environmental movement. (And something the environmetal movement itself <adjusting foil hat> could be involved with, sung to the tune of "Kaaaaaa-ching!")

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scoreless



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: How windy was it? Reply with quote

I don't think this was mentioned in any of the posts to date. Are there records of local weather conditions? If 9/11/01 was a windy or even breezy day at the crash site, then the smoke from the explosion must be a PhotoShop artifact.

Look at that one row of three pictures comparing (1) the photo in question, (2) the smoke ball from a military ordnance explosion, and (3) a jet fuel fire.

In (2), the ordnance explosion, look how the smoke-ball is drifting away, even though the breeze is so light it isn't even re-shaping the smoke very much.
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allheart



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Chris Bollyn interviewed on united93 Reply with quote

By the way, Bollyn was recently harassed for no reason by the ADL connected Chicago Police. Here he is talking about his investigation on the hoax of flight 93: http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmithInterviewsBollyn.html
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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: How windy was it? Reply with quote

scoreless wrote:
I don't think this was mentioned in any of the posts to date. Are there records of local weather conditions? If 9/11/01 was a windy or even breezy day at the crash site, then the smoke from the explosion must be a PhotoShop artifact.

I've done graphics investigation on every aspect of this, I just didn't want to clog this forum with all the documents and diagrams:



This was in response to a claim that the cloud simply drifted into place, even though McClatchey swears she took the photo 5 seconds after the crash. Note, this is the shortest distance into the camera frame, and it would take just under a full minute to get there, which still means the plume is over a mile and a half away, which means it is over 2,000' across.

Quote:
In (2), the ordnance explosion, look how the smoke-ball is drifting away, even though the breeze is so light it isn't even re-shaping the smoke very much.

Important point. An ordnance blast has the majority of it's smoke created immediately, then it dies out fairly quickly (unless it sets ground material on fire). A jet crash continues to feed it's plume with burning fuel. McClatchey's smoke plume is quite obviously not a jet fuel smoke plume.

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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll post up some more of my research, in the event anyone is interested. Or even if they're not. Laughing
.............................................................
The next criticism I had to shoot down was "How can you be sure you have McClatchey's location correct? If that is wrong, maybe the plume would line up with the hole."

Ignoring the fact that the plume is still entirely too large, I answered the inquiry with... you guessed it, more diagrams. Wink

First off, my estimation of McClatchey's position is, I would say, within a foot or 2. Using her uncropped photo, which shows the end of her rain gutter, the positioning is quite precise:



Once that was established, I showed just how far to the left (East) she would have to have been standing in order to make the smoke plume in her photo align with the govt's "hole":



She would have to have been standing in the woods to her left, which would also put her behind another structure as well as another tree line, further obscuring her view.

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Killtown



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continuity wrote:
Was the original photo digital or film?

It was taken from a digital camera, supposedly a HP315 with only 2.1mp with no optical zoom.

And remember that Val says the FBI took her memory card and possibly her hard drive back with them. If the photo if fake, I'd suspect the FBI for the actual faking.

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