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EP



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atm wrote:
Why do I have a niggling doubt about Lord Monkton? Suddenly we're in bed with the aristocracy?

His appearance on a certain Texan's radio show recently should ring alarm bells.

I'm glad I'm not alone here.

There's something just not right -- or too damn right -- about this character.


atm Idea

They always control both sides of the debate. If AGW goes tits up, monkton is the hero who told you so, follow him, do as he says. They're all the same scum sat around the same round table!
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Precisely. We are being played: pawns in a grand chess game.

I just do not trust him. Advisor to Thatcher? I lived through her hegemony. I get a bad feeling about this Lord, lording over us.

Tread water. Thread carefully.

atm
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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2950
Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's smelled slightly funny ever since the "hacker" concept turned into "whistleblower." Since 9/11 I still seem to be looking for a real one.

To be honest, right now it seems the greatest fear is to allow AGW to get off the ground, and yes, we seem to be grabbing at the nearest life preserver because the MSM is successfully cernsoring.

Do I not sweat his background because he's saying what I want to hear? Damn I hate these people's tactics, and yet I'm still fascinated by it.

Where the hell's Evelyn on this? Laughing
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duane



Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 554
Location: western pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from the twitter pile

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/29/AR2008052903266.html

Carbon Chastity
The First Commandment of the Church of the Environment


...........

"For a century, an ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous knowledge class -- social planners, scientists, intellectuals, experts and their left-wing political allies -- arrogated to themselves the right to rule either in the name of the oppressed working class (communism) or, in its more benign form, by virtue of their superior expertise in achieving the highest social progress by means of state planning (socialism).

Two decades ago, however, socialism and communism died rudely, then were buried forever by the empirical demonstration of the superiority of market capitalism everywhere from Thatcher's England to Deng's China, where just the partial abolition of socialism lifted more people out of poverty more rapidly than ever in human history. "


http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/hera113009.html

Madmen, Gamblers, Alcoholics, the US Dollar and Gold
...................

"For every intervention in the free market, whether by government edict or monetary policy, there are unintended consequences. Government intervention in the US housing market, for example, intended to increase opportunities for home ownership among less successful members of society, played a key role in undermining lending standards. Combined with the Federal Reserve's policy of low interest rates, which fueled speculation in real estate and mortgage backed securities, government intervention ultimately proved disastrous.

Markets have existed since the dawn of human civilization without the blessings either of government subsidies and guarantees or of central banking. An economy is best described as an organic system rather than a machine. Interventions purporting to be the processes required to 'operate' the economy are at best futile if not inevitably disruptive and destructive. Like a living organism, the economy is largely self organizing and self regulating. When governments collapse, for example, currencies may fail but trade marches on. The behavior of an economy is an infinitely complex aggregate of individual human actions driven by self-interest and, while it may be characterized at different times either by rationality or by irrationality, it is self correcting (unlike interventions, which know no bounds). As a result, it is not possible for a small group of experts, no matter how intelligent or well intentioned, who have an imperfect understanding and incomplete, inevitably out-of-date information to successfully control the economy without unintended, unexpected and usually destructive consequences."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231563/Is-Britain-brink-financial-armageddon.html

Is Britain on the brink of financial armageddon?

By James Palumbo
Last updated at 11:07 PM on 27th November 2009


He's one of our top entrepreneurs who recently put all his investments into cash. The reason: He believes Britain faces bankruptcy. You may disagree with his bleak analysis but you can't afford NOT to read it


.........

Which leads us to a haunting question: as the country in the world hardest hit by the credit crunch, with gross domestic product (GDP) projected to decline by almost five per cent in 2009, could Britain be next?





so we have the white hatted "thatcher/reagan" free marketeers versus the evil communistic/ socialistic nwo carbon taxing tree huggers. who is correct?

neither, of course

it is interesting that the free marketeers see the market as a living organism but do not see the earth the same way. especially since the human market is a subset of the natural one

they keep yapping about "free markets' but i defy anyone to show me where one has ever existed.


whether this dispute is a diversion by the higher ups or infighting between two gang families (your scam is infringing on my scam) is beyond me at the moment.

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Fintan
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8211

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not every day that
climate skeptics take
TWO high level scalps
.

Laughing Laughing

First:

Quote:


ClimateGate Takes Down Major Australian Political Leader
http://bit.ly/8F0NfA


Second:

Quote:


Professor at centre of climate change
email row stands down temporarily


Published: 7:53PM GMT 01 Dec 2009

Professor Phil Jones, the director of a research unit at the centre of a row over climate change data, has said he will stand down from the post while an independent review takes place.

Prof Jones, director of the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit (CRU), has said he ''absolutely'' stands by the science produced by the centre - and that suggestions of a conspiracy to alter evidence to support a theory of man-made global warming were ''complete rubbish''.

He said he would stand aside as director until the completion of the independent review, which is being conducted in the wake of the allegations by climate ''sceptics''.

The material was taken from servers at the world-renowned research centre before it was published on websites run by climate change sceptics, possibly in a bid to undermine the global climate summit starting next week in Copenhagen.

Earlier, leading climate change economist Lord Stern, responding to the events at CRU, labelled the views of those who are sceptical about the existence of man-made global warming as ''muddled and unscientific''.
Lord Stern said evidence of climate change was ''overwhelming''.

Prof Jones said: ''What is most important is that CRU continues its world-leading research with as little interruption and diversion as possible.
''After a good deal of consideration I have decided that the best way to achieve this is by stepping aside from the director's role during the course of the independent review and am grateful to the University for agreeing to this. The Review process will have my full support.''

Professor Peter Liss will become acting director while the review is conducted, the university said.

Vice-Chancellor Professor Edward Acton said: ''I have accepted Professor Jones's offer to stand aside during this period. It is an important step to ensure that CRU can continue to operate normally and the independent review can conduct its work into the allegations.''

While Lord Stern, speaking at the launch of reports calling for an ambitious deal to tackle climate change in Copenhagen, said it was important for all views to be heard, the degree of scepticism among ''real scientists'' was very small.

Climate science had a strong basis stretching back 200 years, while evidence for global warming came from a number of different sources including ice cores which went back as far as 800,000 years into the past, he said.

''This is evidence that is overwhelming, from all sources, that's the kind of climate science we're talking about,'' he said.

''I think it is very important that those with any kind of views on the science or economics have their say - that does not mean that unscientific muddle also has the right to be recognised as searing insight.''

He added: ''If they are muddled and confused, they do not have the right to be described as anything other than muddled and confused.''

Link

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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh look! Another lord, lording over us.

Lord(s) of the (Tree) Rings. Wink

This MSM counter-attack is gathering pace but most of their readership ain't buying it, nope, that they ain't Very Happy .

Read the comments to this article. Very interesting reading indeed.


Quote:


Climate change sceptics are 'muddled', says Lord Stern

Lord Stern labelled the views of those who are sceptical about the existence of man-made global warming as ''muddled and unscientific''.

Published: 3:41PM GMT 01 Dec 2009

Comments 107

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/6701828/Climate-change-sceptics-are-muddled-says-Lord-Stern.html



Nicholas Stern, chair of the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at the London School of Economics Photo: AP

Speaking after the posting online of stolen emails between climate scientists which sceptics claimed showed researchers manipulating the data to back up their theory, Lord Stern said evidence of climate change was ''overwhelming''.

While he said it was important for all views to be heard, he said the degree of scepticism among ''real scientists'' was very small.

Climate science had a strong basis stretching back 200 years, while evidence for global warming came from a number of sources including ice cores which went back as far as 800,000 years into the past, he said.

''This is evidence that is overwhelming, from all sources, that's the kind of climate science we're talking about,'' he said.

''I think it is very important that those with any kind of views on the science or economics have their say - that does not mean that unscientific muddle also has the right to be recognised as searing insight.''

He added: ''If they are muddled and confused, they do not have the right to be described as anything other than muddled and confused.''

Lord Stern was speaking at the launch of studies looking at whether the UN climate talks starting next week in Copenhagen could deliver a deal which would keep temperature rises below the 2C increase that could lead to ''dangerous'' global warming.

The emails and other material were taken from servers at the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit before being published on websites run by climate change sceptics, possibly in a bid to undermine the global summit in Denmark.

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Nemo



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 75
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to keep the subject current, this from this mornings (2/12/09) Daily Express.
Quote:


CLIMATE CHANGE 'FRAUD'

CLIMATE CHANGE: Many experts claim man-made global warming is melting see ice

Wednesday December 2,2009
By John Ingham

THE scientific consensus that mankind has caused climate change was rocked yesterday as a leading academic called it a “load of hot air underpinned by fraud”.

Professor Ian Plimer condemned the climate change lobby as “climate comrades” keeping the “gravy train” going.

In a controversial talk just days before the start of a climate summit attended by world leaders in Copenhagen, Prof Plimer said Governments were treating the public like “fools” and using climate change to increase taxes.

He said carbon dioxide has had no impact on temperature and that recent warming was part of the natural cycle of climate stretching over ­billions of years.

If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid.

Professor Pilmer

Prof Plimer told a London audience: “Climates always change. They always have and they always will. They are driven by a number of factors that are random and cyclical.”

His comments came days after a scandal in climate-change research emerged through the leak of emails from the world-leading research unit at the University of East Anglia. They appeared to show that scientists had been massaging data to prove that global warming was taking place

The Climate Research Unit also admitted getting rid of much of its raw climate data, which means other scientists cannot check the subsequent research. Last night the head of the CRU, Professor Phil Jones, said he would stand down while an independent review took place.


Professor Plimer said climate change was caused by natural events such as volcanic eruptions, the shifting of the Earth’s orbit and cosmic radiation. He said: “Carbon dioxide levels have been up to 1,000 times higher in the past. CO2 cannot be driving global warming now.

“In the past we have had rapid and significant climate change with temperature changes greater than anything we are measuring today. They are driven by processes that have been going on since the beginning of time.”

He cited periods of warming during the Roman Empire and in the Middle Ages – when Vikings grew crops on Greenland – and cooler phases such as the Dark Ages and the Little Ice Age from 1300 to 1850.

And he predicted that the next phase would cool the planet.

Climate change is widely blamed on the burning of fossil fuels which release greenhouse gases such as CO2 into the atmosphere, where they trap the sun’s heat.

The talks at Copenhagen are expected to find ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions globally.

But Professor Plimer, of Adelaide and Melbourne Universities, said that to stop climate change Governments should find ways to prevent changes to the Earth’s orbit and ocean currents and avoid explosions of supernovae in space. Of the saga of the leaked emails, he said: “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid.”

The CRU’s Professor Jones has admitted some of the emails may have had “poorly chosen words” and were sent in the “heat of the moment”. But he has categorically denied manipulating data and said he stood by the science. And yesterday he dismissed suggestions of a conspiracy to alter ­evidence to support a theory of man-made global warming as “complete rubbish”.

But mining geology professor Plimer said there was a huge momentum behind the climate-change lobby.

He suggested many scientists had a vested interest in promoting climate change because it helped secure more funding for research. He said: “The climate comrades are trying to keep the gravy train going. Governments are also keen on putting their hands as deep as possible into our pockets.

“The average person has been talked down to. He has been treated like a fool. Yet the average person has common sense.”

But Vicky Pope, head of Met Office Climate Change Advice, said: “We are seeing changes in climate on a timescale we have not seen before.

“There clearly are natural variations. But the only way we can explain these trends is when we include both man-made and natural changes to the climate.

“We have also seen declines in summer sea ice over the past 30 years, glaciers retreating for 150 years, changing rainfall patterns and increases in subsurface and surface ocean temperatures.”

And as the war of words between the rival camps intensified, leading economist Lord Stern dismissed the sceptics as “muddled”.

Lord Stern, who produced a detailed report on the issue for the Government, said evidence of ­climate change was “overwhelming”. He accepted that all views should be heard but said the degree of ­scepticism among “real scientists” was very small. Link...

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/143573



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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, the counter-attack (read: MSM heads in the sand) sure is in full swing. We're all SCARred for life and SCARed to death!


Yet again, most of the readers' comments are manna from Heaven.


Quote:


Major cities at risk from rising sea level threat

From The Times December 1, 2009

Hannah Devlin and Robin Pagnamenta

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6938356.ece




(Mischa Keijser/Hollandse Hoogte/eyevine)
The predicted rise in sea levels would engulf island nations such as the Maldives in the Indian Ocean and Tuvalu in the Pacific, devastate coastal cities such as Calcutta and Dhaka and force London, New York and Shanghai to spend billions on flood defences



Sea levels will rise by twice as much as previously predicted as a result of global warming, an important international study has concluded.

The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research (SCAR) calculated that if temperatures continued to increase at the present rate, by 2100 the sea level would rise by up to 1.4 metres — twice that predicted two years ago.

Such a rise in sea levels would engulf island nations such as the Maldives in the Indian Ocean and Tuvalu in the Pacific, devastate coastal cities such as Calcutta and Dhaka and force London, New York and Shanghai to spend billions on flood defences.

Even if the average global temperature increases by only 2C — the target set for next week’s Copenhagen summit — sea levels could still rise by 50cm, double previous forecasts, according to the report.

SCAR, a partnership of 35 of the world’s [ahem] leading climate research institutions, made the prediction in the report Antarctic Climate Change and Climate.

It far exceeds the 0.59 metre rise by the end of the century quoted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 2007.

This was based on a “business as usual” approach by governments that allowed temperatures to rise by 4 degrees.

It will underpin the negotiations in Copenhagen.

SCAR scientists said that the IPCC underestimated grossly how much the melting of the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets would contribute to total sea-level rises.

One of the world’s leading experts on climate science has called for the world to intensify efforts to control global warming by actively removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere [yawn].

In an interview with The Times, Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC, said that geo-engineering, where carbon is stripped from the atmosphere using specialist technologies, would be necessary to control runaway damage to the climate. “At some point we will have to cross over and start sucking some of those gases out of the atmosphere.”

He added that world leaders meeting in Copenhagen should aim for a tighter target of no more than a 1.5C rise in global temperatures.

The IPCC report predicted that the melting of ice sheets would contribute about 20 per cent of the total rise in sea levels, with the majority coming from the melting of glaciers and the expansion of the water as it warms.

It said that it was not able to predict the impact of melting ice sheets, but suggested this could add 10-20cm.

The SCAR report uses detailed climate observations over the past century linking temperature to sea levels to produce a more sophisticated estimate. It puts the likely contribution from ice sheets at more than 50 per cent.

The calculations were carried out by Stefan Rahmstorf, Professor of Physics of the Oceans at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany.


Sceptics seized upon his figures as further evidence of the unreliability of climate change predictions.


“It’s 50cm, 60cm, 100cm — 60m if you ask James Hansen from Nasa,” said Benny Peiser, director of the Global Warming Policy Foundation .

“The predictions come in thick and fast, but we take them all with a pinch of salt. We look out of the window and it’s very cold, it doesn’t seem to be warming. We’re very concerned that 100-year policies are being made on the basis of these predictions



atm Eyes roll
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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2242

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stridency of the 'message' in that link would suggest that the Master Criminals of the NWO("Climatechange" division) are getting perhaps a bit desperate?
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah!

atm
Laughing
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Camagüey



Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atm wrote:
Why do I have a niggling doubt about Lord Monkton? Suddenly we're in bed with the aristocracy?

His appearance on a certain Texan's radio show recently should ring alarm bells.

I'm glad I'm not alone here.

There's something just not right -- or too damn right -- about this character.


atm Idea


It looks a bit like what we saw with Michael Rupert on the CIA-drug connection. He is saying all the right things at the right time, then to use his credibility to lead us up the garden-path with another topic.

Thinking of his remarks about DDT being harmless as sugar, I would venture a guess that he will turn out to be a great supporter of GMO's. I almost expected him to get started on GMO's when he talked about millions of dead people due to not using DDT.

I don't know the DDT problematic at all, maybe he is right. But I can hear him burbling away in the same vein about billions of people dying, due to a lack of GMO crops, children going blind because they don't get vitamin A enriched rice.
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Hombre



Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 967

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just now looking into the Food angle. It's pretty obvious an excuse will be used to CHARGE HIGHER PRICES for food and food products. Further looks like these clowns are running out of ways to screw people out of hard earned monies. Makes one wonder what's on the drawing board.

Question: Do leds' really cost more to manufacture that the old standbys?

Oh but my wife says " THEY LAST LONGER AND USE LESS JUICE " So never mind they cost 5 x's as much~~~ IT'S WORTH IT Laughing

Hombre'
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