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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3824

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hombre

I work in academia too. The level of denial amongst science teachers here is frankly, frightening.

I am either stonewalled or called kooky, behind my back, regardless of the empirical and scientific evidence that I present.

Oh, you cowardly clandestine covert colleagues!

I hear you, hombre.

What I adore about this non-debate is exactly that: it's a non-debate.

The death by a thousand head-butts is unstoppable, irreversable, though impervious; base ignorance and black propaganda pervade.

However, 'their' momentum can be countered effectively: AGW has passed 'The Tipping Point'.

We have the floor; just watch out for the BNP types, the planted fascist pseudo-bots who dance to 'their' own politically motivated partisan cacophony of nonsense.

The Next Level is beyond their grasp; it's ours for the exploiting, to their eternal chagrin.

atm Cool
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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2871
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lord Monckton interview is priceless. It's great to finally hear someone mock Global Warming, and relate it to how the real environmental movement has been hijacked, to it's detriment. As a typical internet liberal years ago, my introduction to GW denial was Rush Limbaugh, who simply denied there was any temperature change. And we all know what a "big fat liar" Rush is. Cool

That's been a lost point here - that those who sign on to AGW (at gunpoint, of course) are then relieved of their environmental conscience issues, not to mention their spare change. "Save the rainforests? Sorry, I gave when the AGW protection man came 'round to collect."
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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1968

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Fintan, for the Lord M interview. Makes things clearer to me.

The most astounding thing though is the GREED of these fuckers! It is truly beyond understanding!
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Aurora025



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some facts about this Lordie:

- Knight of Malta

- member of the Worshipful Company of Broderers

- Member of The Venerable Order of Saint John

- advisor to Margaret Thatcher

- Monckton is listed as a "Global Warming" expert for the Heartland Institute, a Chicago-based freemarket think tank. The Heartland Institute frequently attacks the scientific evidence for human-caused climate change. The Heartland Institute has received over $791,000 from oil-giant ExxonMobil since 1998.

The tobacco industry has also been a regular funder to the Heartland Institute, with at least $190,000 coming from Philip Morris since 1993. The Heartland Institute maintains a smoker's rights section on its website called "The Smoker's Lounge."

- Monckton is listed as a "Chief Policy Advisor" for the Science and Public Policy Institute (SPPI). The SPPI was until recently managed under the name "Center for Science and Public Policy Institute" by another freemarket think tank called the Frontiers of Freedom.
The Frontiers of Freedom has received over $1 million in funding from oil-giant ExxonMobil.

- Quote: "there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently."

Dont't trust anyone, because they provide "experts" for all kind of groups
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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 1968

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with any of that. Do you?

How do you heat your home?
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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2871
Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aurora025 wrote:
Some facts about this Lordie:

- Knight of Malta

- member of the Worshipful Company of Broderers

- Member of The Venerable Order of Saint John

- advisor to Margaret Thatcher

- Monckton is listed as a "Global Warming" expert for the Heartland Institute, a Chicago-based freemarket think tank. The Heartland Institute frequently attacks the scientific evidence for human-caused climate change. The Heartland Institute has received over $791,000 from oil-giant ExxonMobil since 1998.

The tobacco industry has also been a regular funder to the Heartland Institute, with at least $190,000 coming from Philip Morris since 1993. The Heartland Institute maintains a smoker's rights section on its website called "The Smoker's Lounge."

- Monckton is listed as a "Chief Policy Advisor" for the Science and Public Policy Institute (SPPI). The SPPI was until recently managed under the name "Center for Science and Public Policy Institute" by another freemarket think tank called the Frontiers of Freedom.
The Frontiers of Freedom has received over $1 million in funding from oil-giant ExxonMobil.

- Quote: "there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently."

Dont't trust anyone, because they provide "experts" for all kind of groups

First off, that's all believable, and IMO it doesn't taint any of his "info."

Secondly, that's how this scam was "cleansed" in the first place. The oil companies all searched out any scientist who doubted the veracity of AGW and simply gave them funds. They also made no bones about this payoff, because the scam was to clearly identify anyone anti-GW as simply a "paid liar" (like Limbaugh) who was "in bed with Big Energy." I would guarantee that Exxon and BP and Shell and all of them will eventually benefit handsomely for their participation in this scam when all is said and done.

As far as his AIDS take, I think his take is just warped in that area and he's simply feeding the standard paranoia, but I'm not tuning in to him on that subject. Obviously he's a Right-winger, and their all a little crazy in some way.

But I find it interesting, given his apparent background, that he's one of the few "official voices" who's been on TV and given ample air time. Maybe because he's easily discarded as a "Right-wing loon", no matter how accurate he may be on the subject.

As far as his associates "attacking scientific evidence for human caused global warming", from the "evidence" I've seen, I say, "You go man!"

As I said before, so many times you may be sick of hearing it (I know I am), "The best way to reinforce a lie is have someone you hate tell you the truth." I wouldn't be at all surprised if it can't be contained, that the first "big time" politicians we see in the States mentioning ClimateGate (on Right-wing websites or Sunday "back page" TV) are Sarah Palin and/or Dickhead Cheney.
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rustyh



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 458
Location: A Wonderful World

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blond blond blond blond
Some good news here in Australia in the last hour.
Suck eggs Turnball, you bankers friend peanut, go back to the rock you crawled out under from!

[quote]
Quote:
Shock as Tony Abbott wins Liberal leadership by one vote
PHILLIP COOREY
December 1, 2009 - 7:56AM


The federal Liberal Party has elected Tony Abbott as leader and in an unprecedented secret ballot voted overwhelmingly to defeat the Governments emissions trading scheme.

Seconds after Mr Abbott beat Malcolm Turnbull by one vote, he then declared a secret ballot on the ETS.

The motion proposed that the legislation should be delayed for three months, and if this could not be secured, then the legislation should be defeated.

The motion was carried by 54 votes to 29, guaranteeing the death of the Rudd Governments ETS.[/quote]
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3824

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do I have a niggling doubt about Lord Monkton? Suddenly we're in bed with the aristocracy?

His appearance on a certain Texan's radio show recently should ring alarm bells.

I'm glad I'm not alone here.

There's something just not right -- or too damn right -- about this character.


atm Idea
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3824

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Predictable and interesting but noteworthy just the same:

Quote:



Googlegate?

Posted by Richard Sunday, November 29, 2009

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/11/googlegate.html




Searching the Google news site for Booker's latest column


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html

yields an interesting result like it isn't there (above click the pic to enlarge).

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/11/googlegate.html

That is using the search string: "Climate change: this is the worst scientific scandal of our generation" which is the full headline of the piece. I shows up where it has been quoted in full by other sites, but of the Booker column there is no sign. It has been "disappeared".

Repeating the exercise with other headlines from The Sunday Telegraph presents no problems. They come up straight away. Only the Booker column remains invisible.



Repeating the exercise with a new string "Christopher Booker" (above click to enlarge) yields similarly interesting results on the news site. The column for last week shows up, and the week before. But of this week's column, there is no sign.

This cannot be accidental there is a quite deliberate attempt to prevent this piece being listed.

Repeating the exercise on Bing.com and Yahoo.co.uk news pages gets similar nil results.

Yet other headlines from comment pieces from The Sunday Telegraph show up immediately.

James Dellingpole has picked up the problem (great minds) but my guess is that this isn't a Google issue.

The problem probably lies closer to home there looks to be an enemy in the camp, who has probably been using this : http://www.javascriptkit.com/howto/htaccess13.shtml, or something like it.
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EP



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atm wrote:
Why do I have a niggling doubt about Lord Monkton? Suddenly we're in bed with the aristocracy?

His appearance on a certain Texan's radio show recently should ring alarm bells.

I'm glad I'm not alone here.

There's something just not right -- or too damn right -- about this character.


atm Idea

They always control both sides of the debate. If AGW goes tits up, monkton is the hero who told you so, follow him, do as he says. They're all the same scum sat around the same round table!
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3824

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Precisely. We are being played: pawns in a grand chess game.

I just do not trust him. Advisor to Thatcher? I lived through her hegemony. I get a bad feeling about this Lord, lording over us.

Tread water. Thread carefully.

atm
Exclamation
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Rumpl4skn



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2871
Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's smelled slightly funny ever since the "hacker" concept turned into "whistleblower." Since 9/11 I still seem to be looking for a real one.

To be honest, right now it seems the greatest fear is to allow AGW to get off the ground, and yes, we seem to be grabbing at the nearest life preserver because the MSM is successfully cernsoring.

Do I not sweat his background because he's saying what I want to hear? Damn I hate these people's tactics, and yet I'm still fascinated by it.

Where the hell's Evelyn on this? Laughing
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duane



Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 554
Location: western pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from the twitter pile

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/29/AR2008052903266.html

Carbon Chastity
The First Commandment of the Church of the Environment


...........

"For a century, an ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous knowledge class -- social planners, scientists, intellectuals, experts and their left-wing political allies -- arrogated to themselves the right to rule either in the name of the oppressed working class (communism) or, in its more benign form, by virtue of their superior expertise in achieving the highest social progress by means of state planning (socialism).

Two decades ago, however, socialism and communism died rudely, then were buried forever by the empirical demonstration of the superiority of market capitalism everywhere from Thatcher's England to Deng's China, where just the partial abolition of socialism lifted more people out of poverty more rapidly than ever in human history. "


http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/hera113009.html

Madmen, Gamblers, Alcoholics, the US Dollar and Gold
...................

"For every intervention in the free market, whether by government edict or monetary policy, there are unintended consequences. Government intervention in the US housing market, for example, intended to increase opportunities for home ownership among less successful members of society, played a key role in undermining lending standards. Combined with the Federal Reserve's policy of low interest rates, which fueled speculation in real estate and mortgage backed securities, government intervention ultimately proved disastrous.

Markets have existed since the dawn of human civilization without the blessings either of government subsidies and guarantees or of central banking. An economy is best described as an organic system rather than a machine. Interventions purporting to be the processes required to 'operate' the economy are at best futile if not inevitably disruptive and destructive. Like a living organism, the economy is largely self organizing and self regulating. When governments collapse, for example, currencies may fail but trade marches on. The behavior of an economy is an infinitely complex aggregate of individual human actions driven by self-interest and, while it may be characterized at different times either by rationality or by irrationality, it is self correcting (unlike interventions, which know no bounds). As a result, it is not possible for a small group of experts, no matter how intelligent or well intentioned, who have an imperfect understanding and incomplete, inevitably out-of-date information to successfully control the economy without unintended, unexpected and usually destructive consequences."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231563/Is-Britain-brink-financial-armageddon.html

Is Britain on the brink of financial armageddon?

By James Palumbo
Last updated at 11:07 PM on 27th November 2009


He's one of our top entrepreneurs who recently put all his investments into cash. The reason: He believes Britain faces bankruptcy. You may disagree with his bleak analysis but you can't afford NOT to read it


.........

Which leads us to a haunting question: as the country in the world hardest hit by the credit crunch, with gross domestic product (GDP) projected to decline by almost five per cent in 2009, could Britain be next?





so we have the white hatted "thatcher/reagan" free marketeers versus the evil communistic/ socialistic nwo carbon taxing tree huggers. who is correct?

neither, of course

it is interesting that the free marketeers see the market as a living organism but do not see the earth the same way. especially since the human market is a subset of the natural one

they keep yapping about "free markets' but i defy anyone to show me where one has ever existed.


whether this dispute is a diversion by the higher ups or infighting between two gang families (your scam is infringing on my scam) is beyond me at the moment.

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Fintan
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 6544

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not every day that
climate skeptics take
TWO high level scalps
.

Laughing Laughing

First:

Quote:


ClimateGate Takes Down Major Australian Political Leader
http://bit.ly/8F0NfA


Second:

Quote:


Professor at centre of climate change
email row stands down temporarily


Published: 7:53PM GMT 01 Dec 2009

Professor Phil Jones, the director of a research unit at the centre of a row over climate change data, has said he will stand down from the post while an independent review takes place.

Prof Jones, director of the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit (CRU), has said he ''absolutely'' stands by the science produced by the centre - and that suggestions of a conspiracy to alter evidence to support a theory of man-made global warming were ''complete rubbish''.

He said he would stand aside as director until the completion of the independent review, which is being conducted in the wake of the allegations by climate ''sceptics''.

The material was taken from servers at the world-renowned research centre before it was published on websites run by climate change sceptics, possibly in a bid to undermine the global climate summit starting next week in Copenhagen.

Earlier, leading climate change economist Lord Stern, responding to the events at CRU, labelled the views of those who are sceptical about the existence of man-made global warming as ''muddled and unscientific''.
Lord Stern said evidence of climate change was ''overwhelming''.

Prof Jones said: ''What is most important is that CRU continues its world-leading research with as little interruption and diversion as possible.
''After a good deal of consideration I have decided that the best way to achieve this is by stepping aside from the director's role during the course of the independent review and am grateful to the University for agreeing to this. The Review process will have my full support.''

Professor Peter Liss will become acting director while the review is conducted, the university said.

Vice-Chancellor Professor Edward Acton said: ''I have accepted Professor Jones's offer to stand aside during this period. It is an important step to ensure that CRU can continue to operate normally and the independent review can conduct its work into the allegations.''

While Lord Stern, speaking at the launch of reports calling for an ambitious deal to tackle climate change in Copenhagen, said it was important for all views to be heard, the degree of scepticism among ''real scientists'' was very small.

Climate science had a strong basis stretching back 200 years, while evidence for global warming came from a number of different sources including ice cores which went back as far as 800,000 years into the past, he said.

''This is evidence that is overwhelming, from all sources, that's the kind of climate science we're talking about,'' he said.

''I think it is very important that those with any kind of views on the science or economics have their say - that does not mean that unscientific muddle also has the right to be recognised as searing insight.''

He added: ''If they are muddled and confused, they do not have the right to be described as anything other than muddled and confused.''

Link

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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3824

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh look! Another lord, lording over us.

Lord(s) of the (Tree) Rings. Wink

This MSM counter-attack is gathering pace but most of their readership ain't buying it, nope, that they ain't Very Happy .

Read the comments to this article. Very interesting reading indeed.


Quote:


Climate change sceptics are 'muddled', says Lord Stern

Lord Stern labelled the views of those who are sceptical about the existence of man-made global warming as ''muddled and unscientific''.

Published: 3:41PM GMT 01 Dec 2009

Comments 107

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/6701828/Climate-change-sceptics-are-muddled-says-Lord-Stern.html



Nicholas Stern, chair of the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at the London School of Economics Photo: AP

Speaking after the posting online of stolen emails between climate scientists which sceptics claimed showed researchers manipulating the data to back up their theory, Lord Stern said evidence of climate change was ''overwhelming''.

While he said it was important for all views to be heard, he said the degree of scepticism among ''real scientists'' was very small.

Climate science had a strong basis stretching back 200 years, while evidence for global warming came from a number of sources including ice cores which went back as far as 800,000 years into the past, he said.

''This is evidence that is overwhelming, from all sources, that's the kind of climate science we're talking about,'' he said.

''I think it is very important that those with any kind of views on the science or economics have their say - that does not mean that unscientific muddle also has the right to be recognised as searing insight.''

He added: ''If they are muddled and confused, they do not have the right to be described as anything other than muddled and confused.''

Lord Stern was speaking at the launch of studies looking at whether the UN climate talks starting next week in Copenhagen could deliver a deal which would keep temperature rises below the 2C increase that could lead to ''dangerous'' global warming.

The emails and other material were taken from servers at the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit before being published on websites run by climate change sceptics, possibly in a bid to undermine the global summit in Denmark.

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