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Hijacker - Mohammed Atta
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject: Mohamed ATTA and Friends Reply with quote

I'm going to start this post now, and finish it another day. Upon reading crit from DEEP and other, I needed a fresh start.

I understand how and why this forum rejects the fake MIHOP vs. LIHOP debate. (I don't want to be considered 'suspect' for my following statement.)

Despite that, I'm thinking the best way to describe Atta and friends, who they are or were, is by discussing "terrorists" in general, and by comparing alleged facts with an eye to LIHOP vs. MIHOP.

Ultimately, while it's plausible that these men WERE knowingly involved to some degree, beyond fictitious cardboard cutouts wandering around Florida and other states on some unrelated activity, the distinction between LIHOP and MIHOP on Sept 11, in terms of guilty parties, is paper thin.

Either way, the facilitator of 9-11 remains the US "shadow" government, and assorted intelligence. It's just that the question of "who was Atta" is a forked story.

The fork is merely a distinction if Atta and friends were "triggermen"-plus-patsies -- a concept which IS backed by some information revealed prior to and after Sept 11 -- including some foreign press and interviews listed in Wikipedia -- or if they were purely innocent patsies, based on other accounts (mostly Hopsicker's characterization which IMO seems to exclude them from any pool of suicidal jihadists).


ATTA and Friends
WERE THE ARABS IN FLORIDA SUICIDE PILOTS ON 9-11 OR NOT?


What are different profiles of terrorists, both in reality and in MSM fairy tales?

Quote:
1) Suicide bomber type, human sacrifice
a) desperate, hopeless, driven to total despair
b) unreasonably angry, insanely angry, hate America (with or without justification)
c) live for revenge on Israel/America or Other Authority (corrupt Saudis, other rivals) (main "official myth")
d) serious, sober, and committed, intelligent, and believes that (suicide) military attack will result in gains for family or clan or honor or country or religious sect which are worthwhile, weighed against the cost of sacrificing own life, just as American soldiers face such risks or even sure death "for America" (many known suicide bombers are educated students or professionals) (this is main liberal myth, BLOWBACK myth, potentially plausible and true in other cases such as Palestine.)
e) insane religious fanatic, tricked into hating America, or mind-controlled, factual or fictional Moussaori type (this is main neocon-patriot myth)

2) Religious Islamic Pied Piper, "Evil and Twisted" Religion
a) deeply religious, or pretends to be
b) acts like a "coach", may sometimes risk life in a battle like Osama maybe did, or like Zarqawi did (if that was him), but more like prophet or icon than peasant Zarqawi
c) Spokesperson more than combatant
d) "Sheik Yassin" (wheelchair) or "Osama Bin Laden" type (real or myth)
e) wouldn't kill self on purpose, (tries to stick around to do more coaching)

3) Military Tactician, Mastermind, Manager, Planner, Organizer
a) strong ties to US or foreign Intelligence, beyond hired temp jihadist
b) sophisticated
c) intelligent or brilliant
d) ability to cross over, be a chameleon, serve Al-Qaeda, serve US Army, serve FBI, capable of being double agent.


I could add more categories or characteristics.


Per Hopsicker, the Florida gang did not completely fit ANY of these categories.
They were not religious, nor did they act like people deeply committed to a noble cause. Various public officials remarked on that fact, including either Bernake or Ben-Veniste, that it was strange that these men who ate pork, got lapdances, drank, used cocaine, groped strippers, dated a stripper (maybe), and gambled at casinos, playboys who dressed like a Mafioso, "dressed to the nines", who hung out with American "mobsters", could possibly be religious to the point of embarking on a suicide mission "for Allah" or for some dubious cause like "the honor and freedom of the Arab people".

Also, while they reportedly had ties to US military bases, and witnesses remembered meeting Atta and possibly others, they did not seem to act like high-level Intell.

I'm now finding that www.madcowprod.com has already been exposed with some detail on Democratic Underground. I just noticed in one of Hopsicker's online videos (which I had not seen before, had additions to the DVD version) that Amanda Keller's photos of Mohammed Atta look NOTHING like other mainstream photos. Well, DU just confirmed my suspicion. I now see much more to indicate that Hopsicker is involved in the creation of a ... to use his term ... LEGEND.

CooperativeResearch is a more credible site which has a simpler but equally contradictory sketch of the hijackers from a variety of news reports, including some witnesses mentioned by Hopsicker (he had mentioned articles in the local paper).

Cooperative Research 911-Timeline with Search on Mohammed Atta.
Cooperative Research with "Entities" Mohammed Atta

I don't accuse Paul Thompson in this matter --- it is NOT Thompson who is contradictory --- it's the news reports he cites which contain contradictions to each other. Thompson dryly records the information with links. I question Thompson's strong conclusions about "incompetence" or LIHOP, seemingly ignoring MIHOP possibilities.


Some of these characteristics described by Hopsicker are probably untrue. One of the witnesses (landlord couple) later seemed unsure if the "party animal" Mohammed Atta they met was the same guy in the famous glaring photo. In any case, other eyewitness reports from mainstream media (not widely disseminated) listed on C.R. indicated the hijackers did not shun alcohol or avoid loose women and strippers, which is a seeming contradiction to the official story about Islamic Jihadists.

Given the mixture of reality and mythology and outright lies around the hijackings and subsequent events, it's hard to determine what is real and what if fake without conducting independent personal interviews with witnesses.

These men seem AT ODDS with the most common profile WE WERE GIVEN by THE MEDIA of "Suicide hijackers". They seem to be UNLIKE someone who would WILLFULLY fly a plane into a building "for Allah" or for anyone else, or die willingly for any vague "cause", like "driving infidels from the Holy Lands". And if they were planning to die, why worry about having to "answer to the family" (regarding a story told by one of HOpsicker's witness?)



One of Hopsicker's clear flaws is blaming Saudis, as if "they" attacked "us" -- Yeslam Bin Laden allegedly arranged and paid for their flight training (or "flight training" since some were already licensed pilots and since Atta was reportedly present at Maxwell Air Base in Alabama). It's difficult to be sure if Atta actually needed flight training (others probably needed training), or if that was just a complete cover story for other activities they were engaged in, perhaps with the real goal of rendering themselves "publicly visible". It's difficult to be sure who was really aboard the planes, and FBI is even publicly indeterminate on that question. If they were on the planes, it raises questions as to whether they knew their mission included their own deaths.

But even if it is true that they planned and executed the attacks, it's extremely clear that they were at very least protected and sheperded.


These alleged hijackers --- some of whom turned up alive --- had Saudi passports as Hopsicker notes. However, few or none were really Saudis. Some got passage to the US via the US Consulate in Saudi Arabia, three were even "fast-tracked" by a Visa Express program introduced in May 2001, which meant "no need to appear in person". That's a pretty clear example of facilitating attacks, especially combined with the six to twelve FBI agents who angrily claimed they were thwarted.

Obviously, given what was generally KNOWN about dangerous Wahabbi terrorists (seemingly factual) living in Saudi Arabia, orders to loosen security requirements seems like begging for a terror attack to take place. I say "seemingly factual" even though several major terror attacks in and around Saudi Arabia had the fingerprints of Intelligence (per Schoenman and official reports), because it seems there ARE actual "local" Wahabbi terrorist incidents which are NOT provably tied to CIA, and may actually be "grassroots".


Would Atta and crew have done it? Maybe. Depends what parts of the story are believable. Some mainstream stories, from interviews of associates in Germany and elsewhere, indicate that Atta developed a stirring hatred of America and Israel and Jews, and a feud mentality, of which he spoke openly. Then again Lee Harvey Oswald was "openly commmunist", a story which is provably false.

There is a shred of possibility within this part of the story that they did hijack the jets, for some purpose, and perhaps for a suicide mission. However, even in that case, it is clear that US officials protected their mission extensively, and made it EASY for them to crash jetliners with simple weapons, by blocking "good" FBI from intervening. This fits a pattern described by G. Edward Griffin, in particular Days of Infamy.

Sounds like LIHOP, but for the plan to work like clockwork, the hijackers would have to have been directed by US authorities or proxy forces, most likely without their direct knowledge. Which means MIHOP.


I still lean heavily to MIHOP for these reasons: The Lusitania and P.H. both relied on "hope" that the "enemy nation" would respond to provocation and facilitation accomplished by deliberate thwarting and removal of routine security procedures. Sept 11 official reports definitely included this process, but described as accidents, failures, incompetence.

Lusitania relied on "hope" Germany would strike, combined with created "opportunities". P.H. relied "hope" plus "opportunity" as well, but combined with sure fore-knowledge based on complete Intelligence intercepts which were blocked from affected officials. Operation Northwoods (nixed by JFK) took this a step further by eliminating risk that the "enemy attacks" might fail or be halted, by directly staging the attacks, what Tarpley called "synthetic terrorism".



CHARACTER AND PERSONALITY
Atta reportedly knew something of the Koran, but if so, it was a superficial reading of it, much like Christian Zionists who equate Jesus with militarism.

C.R. also includes mainstream reports of them hanging out in Las Vegas and Miami stripper clubs, out drinking, but less of the total party boy atmosphere. They are often described as "big spenders" on themselves, cheap on tipping dancers, and "strange" or "rude". Others described them as shy and friendly.

Assuming part of Hopsicker's story: if you HATED American decadence enough to be willing to kill yourself over it, would you want to go bathe in "Sin City" first? Would you be living with or getting lapdances from "filthy American whores", repeatedly getting drunk in public? If you loved the "Beastie Boys" music, could you also "hate America"? Would you meditate as you solemnly prepared to die, or hang out on a Republican-linked "cruise ship to nowhere", an offshore casino?

They ALL seemed to LOVE the decadent side of America, like ducks to water. Maybe spending all that time in Germany (per Hopsicker) "westernized" them.


On the other hand, Atta allegedly DID make very angry statements about what US foreign policy [and Jews] has done to the Middle East, according to C.R. It seemed that Islam was used primarily for reasons of culture and for courage. In that case, other aspects of Islam would not matter. It would be like any soldier invoking "God" before or after a battle, so absence of serious religious fervor, while exonerating Islam itself, and discrediting the cover story, is not a 100% sure indication that he/they would be unwilling to die.

Also, one flight school reportedly classed them as extremely incompetent and also rude, unwilling to take instructions, and finally kicked them out. Huffman, on the other hand, passed them with high marks.

Some reports have the "hijackers" acting "Indiscreet" like a bunch of flunky jackasses trying to cut loose in Miami and impress people. More than one witness said "Party Animals". This does not ring of "intelligence professional", unless the intention was to draw suspicion. Others, such as witnesses at flight schools, have them cold and rude and nasty. Some describe Atta as "hypnotized" as if he is just constantly nursing his grievances. Others described them as shy and friendly.

Someone else posted this point:
Quote:
And what exactly was Mr. Atta supposedly going to do with the suicide note? If he left the bag behind, forgetting it, then obviously he meant to take it with him, so someone please explain to me why it would make sense to take a suicide note with you on a plane you hope to explode against a building. Too convenient by half.



MORE IS KNOWN ABOUT HILLIARD and RUDY DEKKERS
Dekkers is allegedly a felon from Holland, which should have led the FAA to exclude him from taking over airport property. Dekkers was known locally to be untrustworthy, yet he was invited to testify before Congress, as if he were a hero or had vital knowledge for Congress, when at best he was a shoddy businessman, not a terrorism expert.

Atta was reportedly lunching with Rudy Dekkers (long after Dekkers supposedly lost contact with them). I think they met with Wally Hilliard occasionally.

Hilliard was silent owner of the flight school. His student-customers included a large group sent to him and paid for by Yeslam Bin Laden. This is one pretty big clue that Hilliard was running a CIA front, along with the fact that he remained legally unscathed and almost instantly exonerated for Sept 11, without a probe and serious questions. It's bizarre that there would be no in-depth probes, no media accusations. (It would be as if neither police nor media had questions about Terry Nichols.) Hilliard MUST have been granted "immunity" status beforehand.

In addition, one of his contracts was allegedly maintenance for a known CIA fleet.

Hilliard's Lear Jet was seized in the largest heroin bust in the history of Florida. Despite that, simply because he was not physically present, he was not charged, investigated, or punished beyond confiscation. Cops and prosecution do not normally let a giant heroin bust "walk" unless there were higher orders to do so.

Hopsicker reported from local police that Hilliard's businesses were somewhat openly involved in narco-trafficking, but were granted "hands off" status, per the CIA or other Federal authorities.

Hilliard was associated with Jeb Bush, as his airline got an Endorsement from the State of Florida (apparently the only such endorsement), and a photo op with the governor. Hilliard also reportedly bailed out Jerry Falwell, whose Moral Majority is alleged to be a CIA front and psyop, by other Christians and investigators who have tied him to covert and Nazi-based right wing operations.

Hilliard was at least loosely associated with Atta as a student, but probably more so, and reportedly met outside of the student-school relationship.


WITNESS MAKES THEM SOUND REALLY BAD
One woman (see below, or see C.R. link) from the US Dept of Agriculture reported that Atta had applyed for a loan (for a crop dusting plane), while asking DOZENS of INSANE questions making crazy aggressive remarks, even talking hypothetically about slitting her throat. It is hard to believe no matter how "ill-tempered", that Atta would act THIS obvious and THIS difficult, while asking for a loan (resembles some dark comedy routine, like the Jerky Boyz shopping for a gun and asking if there's a nearby place to cut up bodies), yet despite Atta's shocking remarks, she tells no one.


WHAT *REAL* Al-Qaeda LOOK LIKE
Compare Ali Mohamed. FBI agents knew him by first name, called him at home in Nairobi to ASK him what was going on. FBI had ASKED him to come to the US to testify. He ARRANGED a trip for Zawahiri to the US and protected him.

Unlike Ali Mohamed, the Florida guys were apparently NOT associated directly with top CIA/FBI. Some were allegedly seen or registered on US Military bases, but no indication they had really achieved any stature in the Military, nor in "Al-Qaeda". Other reports had them meeting with Al-Qaeda cell leaders (though not in Prague), getting phone calls, even possibly meeting with OBL himself.



It is ALSO clear from his passport/card that Mohammed Atta's last name was really Elamir, and a news article about Able Danger has him flying into New Jersey, in Bergen County. This would more definitely tie him to the 1999 court case also in Bergen County, which saw a Dr. Magdy Elamir get civl an criminal charges against him thrown out. The case was for embezzlement and allegedly funding Al-Qaeda, a special case picked up by Fed Pros. Michael Chertoff.


Here's some quotes, coming from news stories recorded by Cooperative Research.
Quote:
financial fraud -- Atta and Acar worked together to backdate documents and manage a bank account to make it appear that Atta had loaned Acar over $20,000. This allowed Acar to claim he had no money and a large debt to Atta, and thus couldn’t pay the money he owed as part of the lawsuit against him.

video first shows Bahaji’s nuptial ceremony, followed by a series of radical militant speeches and songs. The songs celebrate violent holy war and martyrdom.

Drucilla Voss later says, “We never talked. They ate all their meals out and really spent all their time in their room.” She describes them as “very sarcastic,” and says, “They gave me the impression they didn’t care much for women.”

However, in August Leklou complains to Chief Flight Instructor Daniel Pursell that the two are failing to follow instructions and have bad attitudes. Pursell considers expelling them, but, according to Dekkers, after a warning they improve their behavior

Atta has “big problems with authority,”

Huffman’s office manager, refers to Atta as “the little terrorist” while he is at the school, because, she later says, “I just didn’t like the aura he gave off.”

Jones Aviation in Sarasota, to continue their training. ... their instructor finds them rude and aggressive, and claims they sometimes fight with him to take over the controls of the training plane. The instructor later says that when he talks to Atta, “he could not look you in the eye. His attention span was very short. ... They didn’t live up to our standards.”

Atta “always very formally dressed ... always neatly pressed trousers of a wool type. A shirt and a waistcoat to match the trousers.” This is in spite of the “extremely hot” weather. Atta never shows any emotion and appears hypnotized.

Hijackers Abandon Stalled Plane on Florida Runway; No Investigation Ensues

George later describes Atta and Alshehhi as “average pilots,” and says they are “quite ordinary. They were respectful and quiet almost to the point of being shy.”

Advanced Aviation Flight Training School ... According to the school’s owner Bruce Buell, the two are “well-dressed, polite and friendly.”

Tony LaConca (landlord) later recalls, “They were gone for three days. They didn’t sleep—it was a continuous party.” The three indulge in drugs and alcohol, all paid for by “Mohamed,” even though he does not have a job.

James Lester says, “I recognized him because he stayed on my feet all the time. I just about had to push him away from me.”

Alshehhi spends his days “washing piles of laundry for the gang in the development’s washing machines,” and Atta is “often in the parking lot, chain smoking.”


and this ASTONISHING report
Quote:
Late April-Mid-May 2000: Atta Leaves Numerous Clues While Seeking Crop-Dusting Airplane Loan Mohamed Atta reportedly has a very strange meeting with Johnelle Bryant of the US Department of Agriculture (incidentally, one month before the official story claims he arrived in the US for the first time). According to Bryant, in the meeting Atta does all of the following:
He initially refuses to speak with one who is “but a female.”
He asks her for a loan of $650,000 to buy and modify a crop-dusting plane.
He mentions that he wants to “build a chemical tank that would fit inside the aircraft and take up every available square inch of the aircraft except for where the pilot would be sitting.”
He uses his real name even as she takes notes, and makes sure she spells it correctly.
He says he has just arrived from Afghanistan.
He tells about his travel plans to Spain and Germany.
He expresses an interest in visiting New York.
He asks her about security at the WTC and other US landmarks.
He discusses al-Qaeda and its need for American membership.
He tells her bin Laden “would someday be known as the world’s greatest leader.”
He asks to buy the aerial photograph of Washington hanging on her Florida office wall, throwing increasingly large “wads of cash” at her when she refuses to sell it. [ABC News, 6/6/2002]
After Bryant points out one of the buildings in the Washington photograph as her former place of employment, he asks her, “How would you like it if somebody flew an airplane into your friends’ building?”
He asks her, “What would prevent [me] from going behind [your] desk and cutting [your] throat and making off with the millions of dollars” in the safe behind her.
He asks, “How would America like it if another country destroyed [Washington] and some of the monuments in it like the cities in [my] country had been destroyed?”
He gets “very agitated” when he isn’t given the money in cash on the spot.
Atta later tries to get the loan again from the same woman, this time “slightly disguised” by wearing glasses.Three other terrorists also attempt to get the same loan from Bryant, but all of them fail. Bryant turns them down because they do not meet the loan requirements, and fails to notify anyone about these strange encounters until after 9/11. Government officials not only confirm the account and say that Bryant passed a lie detector test, but also elaborate that the account is consistent with other information they have received from interrogating prisoners. Supposedly, failing to get the loan, the terrorists switched plans from using crop dusters to hijacking aircraft. Other department employees also remember the encounter, again said to take place in April 2000. The 9/11 Commission has failed to mention any aspect of Johnelle Bryant’s account. [ABC News, 6/6/2002; Washington Post, 9/25/2001; London Times, 6/8/2002] Compare Atta’s meeting with FBI Director Mueller’s later testimony about the hijackers: “There were no slip-ups. Discipline never broke down. They gave no hint to those around them what they were about.” [CNN, 9/28/2002]



The US Military / NASA has used automated remote flight controls since 1984. These can do takeoffs and landings, good landings or crash-on-demand. The video showed a crash landing on a runway, and it seemed that wanting to test-crash a plane was THE reason for creating the remote-control technology.

The CIA also has tested voice-morphing technology, impressing some politicians who witnessed it.

So "living human being" hijackers were not needed if the USG wanted to create a "New Pearl Harbor" as they stated they 'hoped' would occur.



The Mohamed Atta STORY is stll important in details because

a) details go further in proving the government is lying on one or more levels about who these guys are

b) if they were real, the FBI's inability to track them and stop them is insane, given the number of different people ratting on them, plus outstanding warrants that didn't prevent them from travelling freely in and out of the country

c) details show the men were connected with shady operations close to the CIA, Military, FBI, other Intelligence, government



To see some reasons why the attack was NOT an operation by Al-Qaeda to "help Arabs" by removing infidels from their soil, (though probably WAS a mission by the "USA Al-Qaeda Project"), see "What Al-Qaeda has Accomplished So Far". Compare that to Brzezinski's stated goals, and you see that Al-Qaeda's activities and results matched Brzezinski's "wish list".

"Al-Qaeda" has accomplished the exact opposite of their stated goals, "infidel removal". There are MORE Americans (and other westerners) in the Middle East, MORE Americans in control, MORE Arabs threatened or devastated or killed. This result was the predictable outcome of an "attack by Al-Qaeda" on US soil. Was "Al-Qaeda" just not thinking this through?

As for Osama, why even bother "attacking America" if you intend to deny responsibility? Denying responsibility neutralizes any possible political gains, would render the events "anonymous" and "mysterious". On the other hand, claiming responsibility is guaranteed to bring destruction. That's a no-win situation for someone looking to advance Islamic influence.



MORE ... TBC


Last edited by dilbert_g on Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:55 am; edited 7 times in total
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DeepLogos



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little update on the "highjackers":

CCTV video of the "highjackers" of flight 175 and 11 as the pass through security on Logan International Airport. I have a hard time figuring out who is who, but I think I recognize "Atta's" blue shirt?

Can anyone help me identify the rest (if it is at all possible). Also, weren't there more "highjackers"? If the last man is Marwan and the man in the blue shirt is Atta, who is the man shown first (the man from Portland Airport?) and where are the rest?

In my analysis they look very relaxed (maybe too much booze and pork), not at all like they are about to parttake in a planned multi-plane highjack.

Regardless, it is not conclusive.


Video (CCTV footage) from Logan.

-DL-

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John Doe II



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:36 am    Post subject: Hello Reply with quote

Hello everybody,

I'm new here but as I've done quite detailed timelines on every single alleged hijacker. Maybe this is of interest to you. Everything is exclusevily based on official documents and MSM articles.
http://www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewforum.php?23

A quick overview of the summary of the results is here:
http://www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2486

Here is the timeline on Atta with many evidence that he had some sort of double:
http://www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2484.10

And here a definitive proof (simple and short) of Atta having a sort of double on September 7.
http://www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?3637

Best regards,
John Doe II

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Continuity



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, JDII - welcome to the forum!

Thanks for the 'doubles' research that you've provided. I think that some of us have touched upon the 'doubles' issue in a few posts, but it's great to have someone on board who's intimately familiar with the issue.

Also, props to Team8+ for providing research material also pertaining to the RADAR coverage and flight plans, etc.

Hope you enjoy your stay. Wink

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Mathias



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the cover-up of the real identities of the "hijackers" - by a coalition of White House, Saudi Governemnet & MSM like "Spiegel" (see my posting in the "Living Hijacker" section) - and the light that researchers like Daniel Hopsicker, Paul Thompson, John Doe II brought into this dark matter, imho it is save to say, that THIS topic should be on the top of any investigative agenda. Unfortunately on the 5th anniversary we had the topics "WTC-demoliton" and "Pentagate" on the top of the and I think this is a distraction. Now with even GWBush talking on "explosives" in the towers this seems quite obvious.

I covered these two topics in my book "Conspiracies, Conpiracytheories & the Secrets of 9/11", appearing in Germany in 2002, already with the warning, that it might be a red herring leading in a wrong direction - away from the real question "Who?" into a secondary discussion of "How ?" and "Why?". In any murder case, if I do not know the perpetrators, questions on the forensic data (how) and motives (why) are important to come on the track of the perps, but in this case we know them, the alleged "hijackers". So any investigation has to start here - and I am convinced from looking deeper into the live & surroundings of these guys, their connections & protections the whole truth would unfold step by step.

My advice for the next 5 (??, maybe 15 or 50) years: let's start with the "hijackers" and their alleged chief Atta. Instead at " bombs, lies & videos" let's look at the OBL/Atta/ISI/CIA/FBI chain, let's dig more holes in the offical Atta-legend, instead of looking at pictures of holes in the Pentagon wall, let's give a well-funded "Next-Level"-Research-Price for a researcher, finding and interviewing the six men, whose identities were used & which turned up alive after the attacks & are on the "hijackers"-list until today...

Best regards

Mathias Broeckers
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John Doe II



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:42 am    Post subject: Priorities Reply with quote

Thanks Continuity for the kind welcome!

Mathias, as you know your book is the reason which at first arose my interest in 9/11! And I absolutely agree on your advice to dedicate more time on the alleged hijackers. So many people get heated up about pics from the Pentagon while considering discussing Atta having some sort of double a sideshow (welcome back to Cambodia ...) It's a bit depressing to be honest. That's the reason why I've written the "Questioning the identity of the alleged hijackers" that I'll post here, too.


On edit: I can't post anything as a new post so here you go:
http://www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?3815

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE on MOHAMMED ATTA.

I knew that Hopsicker told a story about Atta which was apparently confirmed by witnesses and incompatible with "Islamic Militant".

Drunken, coked-up Playboy, getting lapdances, drunk, and hanging out gambling on a casino cruise ship purchased through Tom Delay's lobbyist friend and Zionist gangster Jack Abramoff, with obvious links the height of the Republican party. Bush spoke on TV towards defending reputation of Tom Delay before his political fraud conviction in Texas.

But this OTHER contradictory viewpoint comes from a top Newsweek correspondent in Egypt. This person was later involved in writing "The Road to 9-11", not the ABC fictional show.

The astonishing part is that NEWSWEEK would actually print this!!
And that it would then fade from view.


‘He Never Even Had a Kite’
Mohamed Atta’s father talks about his son, the alleged hijacker

Newsweek | September 25, 2001
By Alan Zarembo
http://www.911omissionreport.com/atta_father.html

From this we learn:
Atta was a mama's boy. Diligent student. Non-political. Extremely shy. (Morrisey-like nearly crippling shyness!!) Unmarried. Would never touch a woman first, even to shake hands. Father feared he would be a lonely bachelor ... or perhaps gay. Arranged a future marriage to another shy woman.

Suffered terrible flight sickness, to the point of needing assistance.


When Mohamed al-Amir Atta, the father of the man thought to be at the controls of American Airlines Flight 11 when it slammed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center, opened the door to his 11th floor apartment in Cairo last Saturday, the first thing he said was: “I’m not benefiting from these interviews. My son is gone. He is now with God. The Mossad killed him.” Then he offered me a cup of tea.

ATTA’S SON DOES NOT fit what had been the stereotype of a suicide bomber, born into a poor family and drawn into fundamentalism out of hopelessness. The family’s apartment in the Egyptian capital, with a sweeping view of downtown, was filled with ornate furniture and rugs and decorated with paintings of flamingos and women in headscarves. His father, who described himself as “one of the most important lawyers in Cairo,” said that he would talk, uninterrupted by questions, for 20 minutes. More than an hour later, between drags on “American blend” cigarettes, he was still talking, portraying his son as a mama’s boy prone to airsickness, a dedicated architecture student who rarely mentioned politics, and a victim of a intricate framing by the Israeli intelligence agency.

The father went to great lengths to support this contention, delivering a lecture on what he saw as the ugly history of the agency and his own deductive powers as a lawyer. “The Mossad kidnapped my son,” he says. “He is the easiest person to kidnap, very surrendering, no physical power, no money for bodyguards. They used his name and identity.”

(Newsweek sticks to the story-line, despite a near-absence of ANY credible evidence of Atta's involvement or even getting on that plane, such as "no Arabs in seat chart")

The contention reflects the desperation of a once-proud father who thought his 33-year-old son had merely been abroad studying—an image impossible to reconcile with the accusation that he helped murder more than 6,000 people.

OK, now THIS is the fearsome terrorist mastermind:

His only worry, he said, was his son’s shyness around women: His only worry, he said, was his son’s shyness around women: “I started reminding him to get married. Many times I asked him to marry a woman of any nationality—Turkish, Germany, Syria—because he did not have a girlfriend like his colleagues. But he insisted that he would marry an Egyptian. He was never touching women, so how can he live? I always told him that according to religion you should get married and that you are getting older. He never extended his hand to shake the hand of a woman. He would only shake if she extended it to him. By nature he avoided problems.”

“Did he ever learn to fly? Never. He never even had a kite.” Added Atta senior: “My daughter, who is a doctor, used to get him medicine before every journey, to make combat the cramps and the vomiting he feels every time he gets on the plane.” At one point in our interview, he held up an old photograph of his son and said: “Look, he is even more handsome than the picture in the newspaper.”

If the Newsweek story of the Hopsicker store are true, he's not an Islamic Radical student or agent on Jihad.
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PatrickSMcNally



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 846

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert_g wrote:
(Newsweek sticks to the story-line, despite a near-absence of ANY credible evidence of Atta's involvement or even getting on that plane, such as "no Arabs in seat chart")

Apparently that may have been the result of lists of "victims" being published on which the names of alleged hijackers were left out. That is the claim suggested here:

-----
http://911myths.com/html/no_hijackers_on_the_manifests.html

There’s an obvious clue here in the URL, which tells us it’s a “victims” list. Is it really surprising that the suspected hijackers wouldn’t be included? And in fact if you look on the site you’ll find CNN specifically say those names have been left out.
-----

Some further qualifications are added at:

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http://911myths.com/html/the_passengers.html

Further, these documents actually raise additional questions of their own. In particular, Mark Bingham is not included on the Flight 93 list, and there are five passengers missing from the Flight 175 list. See the individual lists for more.

There are technical complications, too. The documents originated as a fax, which has then been scanned, and finally saved in JPEG format. Every step has reduced print quality, and in some cases it’s now, well, rubbish. In addition, one name is missing completely (it was left off the bottom of one page, or the start of the next), and two others can just barely be deciphered.

Another issue arises from the document content. Although they provide passenger names, the lists used fixed fields, so (for instance) only the initial 5 letters of a person’s first name are printed. This surely wouldn’t be the case in a full manifest... Would it? So perhaps what we have is a lower value document, printed output from some other system.
-----

Whatever the case may really prove to be in the end, some greater caution is warranted than has been practiced most of the time.
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