This site and http://www.bultannews.com are publishing demonstrators photos and asking the public to identify them! I�ve tried to overload the page by using �IE auto refresher�, although I don�t know if that works or not, and I�m not that good with computers, but you can find this program at: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Interne...efresher.shtml
Please we really need to bring down the site before Iranian gov. identifies them! So if you have ideas or suggestions; please tell.
[Only #8 seems to get it -]
so you just do not listen do you? This site is within IRAN and we have been told not to attack the goverment website because it can add to there properganda. Only attack sites that are not listed within IRAN.
In Tehran, state television's Channel Two is putting on a "Lord of the Rings" marathon, part of a bigger push to keep us busy. Movie mad and immunized from international copyright laws, Iranians are normally treated to one or two Hollywood or European movie nights a week. Now it's two or three films a day. The message is "Don't Worry, Be Happy." Let's watch, forget about what's happened, never mind. Stop dwelling in the past. Look ahead.
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish that none of this had happened."
Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
On the news, it's more of the same. The state-run media is trying to tell us that life needs to go on, that politics is a nasty business, but now it's over. Except for that first night, the news broadcasts have not shied away from the violence outside. Instead they've found a way to turn it inside out, make it about the protesters and not the curious mathematics of the election. At least nothing is hidden or subtle. When they want to make a point they lay it on, 10 minutes at a time, sometimes close to 15. It's like a friend says -- this is not news, it's interpretation, spin.
They interview regular folk on the street and in the parks. They want viewers to know that all those millions of protesters are, somehow, not regular folk: "Khastekonande." It's getting old. "Kasebam. Barayenke moafaq basham bayad moid e am dashte bashe." I'm a businessman. For my business to succeed, I need for there to be calm. "Ma faghat mikhaim ye nooni darbiarim, dombal e kar e zendegi berim." We just wanna make some bread, take care of our lives and our business. "In ha kay shooloogh mikonand mardoom nistand. Man fekr nemikonam kay mardoom hastand." The ones who are rioting aren't of the people. I don't think that they're part of the people. "Chand rooze ke natoonestam pesar va dokhtaram biaram park bekhatere in shoolooghia." It's been several days that I haven't been able to bring my son and daughter to the park, because of the violence.
Back to "Lord of the Rings." Gandalf the Gray returns to the Fellowship as Gandalf the White. He casts a blinding white light, and his face is hidden behind a halo. "Imam zaman e?!" someone in the room asks. Is it the Mahdi, the last imam and, according to Shia Islam, the savior of mankind?
Who picked this film? I start to suspect that there is a subversive soul manning the controls at Seda va Sima, AKA the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting. It is way too easy to play with the film, to draw comparisons to what is happening in real life. There are the overt Mousavi themes: the unwanted quest and the risking of life in pursuit of an unanticipated destiny. Then there is the sly nod to Ahmadinejad. Iranian films are dubbed (forget the wretched dubbing into English in the U.S.; in Iran dubbing is a craft) and there are plenty of references to "kootoole," little person, the Farsi word used in the movie for hobbit and dwarf. "Kootoole," of course, was, is, the term used in many of the chants out on the street against President Ahmadinejad. He is the "little person." ("And whose side are you on?" Pippin asks the ancient, forest-dwelling giant named Treebeard. Those watching might think the answer is Mousavi, since Treebeard is decked out in green.)
The 9-year-old in the room loudly predicts that the "Lord of the Rings" marathon will put an end to the nightly shouts of "Allah Akbar" from Tehran's rooftops. People will not take to the roofs and windows because these films will keep them occupied. Besides, there is a dubious rumor going around that the basij are marking the doorways of those households that continue to call out "Allah Akbar!" at night, a kind of reverse Passover. Fear, as well as Tolkien, will no doubt play a part.
The 9-year-old goes on to report that the kids on his school "service" (no Blue Bird buses in Tehran, but long Toyota vans instead) have been chanting, "Pas rai e ma koojast?! Pas rai e ma koojast?! Pas rai e ma koojast?!" Then where is our vote?! Then where is our vote?! Then where is our vote?! I ask him what the driver is doing while all this goes on and he tells me that the driver honks along. Honk honk-honk-honk! "Pas rai e ma koojast?!" Honk honk-honk-honk!
Back to the movie. Gandalf's white steed strides into the frame. It is instantly transformed by local viewers into Rostam's mythical horse, Rakhsh. Rostam, the great dragon-slaying champion of Ferdowsi's poetic epic "Shahnameh," which recounts the whole history of Iran.
The 9-year-old is wrong about the rooftops. The sound begins as a low roll from a nearby park then quickly builds upward. "Allah Akbar! Allah Akbar!" No way. We rush to the window. It begins at 10 at night and will continue for another 30 minutes ...
On the television screen, Boromir, human of Aragon, falls. He dies an honorable death defending the lives of his compatriots.
"In edame dare." This is to be continued. The phrase has become our hesitant slogan, our phrase of reassurance. "In edame dare." People are not going to let up so easily.
Each time I've lost faith, I've been wrong. Iranians are proving to be a sturdier lot than I have given them credit, much mightier even than the formidable kootooloos that stand in their way.
Maybe they need some BFN analysis to help them on to the next level?!
Iranian-born, internationally renowned cultural critic and award-winning author, Hamid Dabashi is the Hagop Kevorkian Professor of the prestigiou Chair of Iranian Studies and Comparative Literature at Columbia University in New York.
Author of scores of scholarly essays and books, Professor Dabashi has written extensively on the relationship between Islamic throcracy and democratic politics. Among his best-known books: Authority in Islam; Theology of Discontent; and Iran: A People Interrupted.
it is a microcosm of the chaos that is goin on....yet niteowl and his green breifs have been instrumental in finding confirmed but unreported news from tehran and informing us on the outside....while mass media and most alt media distort and twist and ignore.
i speak daily to my family in Iran to verify as much as i can..who are in favor of a secular republic...no matter how idealic it may sound at the moment..this is their best chance. yet durring the info war, most are left scrambling trying to make some sense of it all...so alot of effort is lost.
So like the end of that story you posted, this will continue...if they know anything is change doesnt happen overnite...it needs real support and awareness by all of us on this end as well. _________________ There is no God higher than the Truth ~ Gandhi
Last edited by axomoxa on Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Thanks axomoxa and welcome to the BFN forum.
I look forward to your personal insight on it all.
Things are moving so fast on this thread that it's hard to keep up, so I didn't notice that you had already linked to it.
Thanks James, it shows you have a good eye since you did pluck it out of the net. twitter is where i found it...a place that is completely chaotic and amazingly informative. sms is their #1 weapon even though it sounds like a joke.
well I'll be damned, CNN gave a few minutes to some real talk...albiet from one of the establishment trained mouths...but at these times morality can surpass agendas...and Hamid does have a great feel on things. althought he reveals much in his works...i dont think he goes too
deep in who really really pulls the strings. im have to listen to some of the other talks to see where he stands, outwardly that is.
personally, as much as I love Gandhi, i know he was just nother concession made by the ptb to release the pressure of oppression..much like MLK. I believe neither would have accomplished as much in the last century if it wasnt allowed....much like the american revolt and so on...
so if the people remain leaderless, its not a bad thing...the power is in their hands as soon as they choose to sacrifice the superficial and excersie the real. thats why i love the name of this thread...it is very well stated to describe its core...for a true republic in iran would be absolutely crucial in a real productive blow to the western cabal and zionist...as their true ancient history would attest to it.
the persians who are fighting for freedom are sort of using the muslims like they used us in 79, perhaps just maybe poetic justice will be served...that is why they are yelling allaho akbar at nite...for to say iran is 98% muslim is like sayin US is 98% christian. _________________ There is no God higher than the Truth ~ Gandhi
Last edited by axomoxa on Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
Here you go, and thanks for posting Prof Dabashi's article earlier in
this thread. I read it and others linked above. Well written. That's
what prompted me to interview him.
The Unrest in Iran Makes Me Green with Envy
Haaretz - Israel News -By Gideon Levy - June 25, 2009
It makes one green with envy: The scenes from Iran prove that some nations are trying to take their fate into their own hands. Some nations are not floating on the surface in sickly indifference, some are not looking around in endless complacence. And some are not following their leaders with the blindness of a herd. There are moments in the histories of certain nations when the people say enough. No more.
Czechs and Ukrainians, French and Russians, South Africans and Palestinians, Thais and Chinese, Lebanese and now Iranians have taken to the streets on at least one inspirational occasion and tried to make an impact. Some succeeded, some failed, but at least they tried. They did not surrender to their failed leaders, who dragged them from bad to worse. This is not only about rising up against a tyrannical regime; sometimes it's about a struggle for justice in democracies, too. That struggle is not conducted only in polls and elections; such struggles must spill out onto the streets. Here, too.
The scenes from oppressive Iran are of light breaking through. Thousands of women and men protesting and demonstrating, holding signs and shouting out loud. They stand with their faces visible, fearless. All of them are at risk because of their protest. Perhaps less than what we imagine here - our learned analysts know that there is only an Iran of darkness - but certainly much more than in free Israel.
But while Iran's women are taking a risk and demanding that their voice be returned to them, Israel's women are wrapping themselves in silence, from the mall to the parking lot. As Tehran's men cry out "Where is our voice?", here they ask "Where will our next vacation be?" Here in the SUV, there in the streets. Here in front of the stupefying television screen, there in front of the forces of evil. Here in darkness, there in the light of popular protest.
We only take to the streets when there is a festival, hardly ever because of a scandal. Tel Aviv's centennial or the book festival, the beer festival or the tomato festival - but never in protest. In Iran they are fighting for liberty, here for vacation time.
It's true, there is liberty in Israel, but only for us, the Jews. We have a regime that is no less tyrannical than the ayatollahs' regime: the regime of the officers and the settlers in the territories. But what do we have to do with any of this? In Iran, police disperse demonstrations with violence, they shoot and kill. And what do we do?
When you get a chance, go on Friday to Na'alin or Bil'in and see what happens there. Demonstrators are killed here with similar brutality, but in Iran the crowd is standing up to a tyrannical regime, while here only a handful of brave people stand up to the Border Police, who are firing weapons. Moreover, we hardly write anything about the protest being silenced with bullets. It interests no one, and this, too, is called democracy.
A democracy is not tested only with elections. A democracy is measured in everyday life. National aims are not achieved only through power hungry politicians; the street must also speak. In the latest polls, 64 percent of Israelis say they support a two-state solution. Great. But when Israel moves steadily away from such a solution, when the prime minister takes a small step forward but then raises more and more impossible obstacles, no one thinks to do anything. Have you heard a single political conversation recently? Nothing.
One can only imagine what would have happened if the day after Benjamin Netanyahu's speech, that same silent and paralyzed majority that allegedly wants two states had taken to the streets to demand an end to the occupation. Or if they demanded that we say yes to the Arab peace initiative. What a boost that would have been, a genuine wind of change on whose strength Barack Obama, Netanyahu, Mahmoud Abbas and Bashar Assad could move forward together.
But when the street is silent, only the leaders are left, and their survival drives them.
Israel is now at a fateful crossroads, no less than Iran. An opportunity lies before it that will not be seen again, one that affects the future of all its people no less than the election results in Iran affect the Iranians' fate. Missing the opportunity here will be just as decisive as four more years of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in power. But look what is happening in totalitarian Iran and what is happening here, the sole democracy in the Middle East, blah, blah, blah.
According to widely circulated reports, Hashemi Rafsanjani has been in the city of Qom consulting with senior clerics to engineer a majority on the Council of Experts in favor of restructuring the theocratic system and/or even deposing the Supreme Leader.
But in an interview with Deutsche-Welle, Ahmad Ghabel, a former clergyman, argues that these reports are disinformation by Iranian authorities designed to temper the challenges to the official election result.
Ahmad Ghabel says the Council of Experts is not in a position to question the competence of the supreme leader; is subservient to the supreme leader and has never challenged him in the history of the Iranian Republic.
Certainly, if Rafsanjani is using quiet diplomacy, it is whisper quiet, as there has been little heard from him to substantiate progress in this direction.
There have indeed been a slew of reports in the last week asserting that he is making progress, but firm report nor any substantive outcome.
To quote Ahmad Ghabel in the Deutsche-Welle article:
"Mr. Rafsanjani’s every word and deed is supervised by the government. Also, he has been completely silent on what has been happening and is waiting to see how things turn out so that if the need arises he would enter into talks with Mr. Khamenei and others."
Of interest is that today the official PressTV website claimed that Alaeddin Boroujerdi, Head of Iran's Parliamentary Committee on National Security and Foreign Policy had told Fars news agency that the committee's governing board met with Rafsanjani and Mir-Hossein Mousavi. The PressTV article inferred that a compromise might be in the works.
Today, as PressTV makes this announcement is of course also the date for the annual university entrance exam, and has been one of 'relative' quiet, because around one and a half million students were sitting that exam.
That juxtsposition of events might indeed mean that the promise of Rafsanjani's efforts has now reached a well-timed crescendo aimed at using this exam lull to diminish a likely resumption of protest tomorrow and thus rob the opposition of momentum.
However, it must be said that Ahmad Ghabel's doubts about Rafsanjani’s could itself be disinformation. Either way this whole issue serves to indicate that foreign journalists relying on sketchy reports out of Iran should take care to reserve judgement on claimed developments --for fear of acting as unwitting conduits for disinformation.
My apologies if you found this analysis a bit mindboggling.
It is necessarily as convoluted and foggy as Iranian politics itself.
Rafsanjani’s silence as the head of the Council of Experts during recent incidents has led some observers to speculate the possibility of him using his constitutional position to reign in the supreme leader. The Council of Experts is not in a position to question the competence of the supreme leader, says Ahmad Ghabel.
According to unconfirmed reports, Hashemi Rafsanjani has recently made a trip to the holy city of Qom in order to seek the consultation of senior clergymen in issuing a warning to the supreme leader in an effort to undermine his authority. Ahmad Ghabel, a clergyman no longer wearing the clerical robe, argues that these are rumors spread around by coup leaders in order to change the lawful direction of challenges and complaints against the election.
Deutsche-Welle: Mr. Ghabel, in the aftermath of Ayatollah Khamenei’s Friday prayer sermons in Tehran last week [June 19th], some observers have noted that since he has formally and publicly come out in support of one specific faction, the condition of impartiality of the supreme leader that is required in the constitution of the Islamic Republic has therefore now been compromised. In your view, is the Council of Experts, under the chairmanship of Mr. Rafsanjani, within its rights to issue a warning to the supreme leader in this regard?
Ahmad Ghabel: This is not a new issue, but I find its being brought up at this particular point in time as being highly suspicious. The reason I say this is because those opposing the people – or should I say the protesting people – insist on portraying the conditions inside the country in such a way that paints those challenging the results of the elections as being bent on compromising the key pillars and organs of the regime in order to foment a kind of “velvet revolution". Conversely, people on the other side, like Mr. Mir-Hossein Mousavi, Karroubi, and Khatami insist on pursuing matters within existing legal frameworks, and are not at all interested in getting into debates about issues such as the competence and aptitude of the supreme leader.
The allegations against Mr. Rafsanjani also originate from those who believe that they won the previous election by exploiting the negative public impressions of Mr. Hashemi Rafsanjani. This time around they again tried to repeat the same strategy by arguing that it was because of the acute dislike of Mr. Hashemi by the masses that Mr. Ahmadinejad won. Hence, in order to show the legitimacy of their claims, they manufacture false allegations against Mr. Rafsanjani; for instance that he has been meeting or in contact with certain Grand Ayatollahs or members of the Council of Experts.
I am certain that these reports are false and have no basis in reality. Mr. Rafsanjani’s every word and deed is supervised by the government. Also, he has been completely silent on what has been happening and is waiting to see how things turn out so that if the need arises he would enter into talks with Mr. Khamenei and others. I believe that putting forth such issues is in line and more consistent with the goals of those who wish to reframe the people’s movement as illegal, and they seem to be a plot of the coup-leaders themselves.
D-W: But within the existing legal framework which you mentioned, the Council of Experts is charged with overseeing the duties of the supreme leader and cautioning him.
AG: Yes, and as I said, if the Council of Experts had the will and ability to do such a thing it would have done so much earlier and not necessarily on matters related to this election, but in other arenas and with respect to other elections it could have issued warnings and assumed its duties. But do really think that members of the Council of Experts, who have had to pass through the extreme filter of the Guardian Council, particularly the exceptionally harsh filtering that is exercised in case of the Council of Experts, have the ability or courage to question the competence of the supreme leader? Given how brutally they [the coup makers] have been able to crackdown on everyone under current circumstances, with such a high turnout in the elections, what do you expect from a few senile men without any serious public backing?
In my view, the very mention of this possible story proves it’s incorrectness, because these people are not the types who would ever want to discuss such things.
D-W: But Mr. Ghabel, something similar to this occurred during the time of Ayatollah Khomeini. Through numerous consultations and meetings that took place, they deposed the person which he [Mr. Khomeini] had picked as his successor and instead endowed the Council of Experts with the task of appointing the supreme leader. Why don’t you believe something similar could happen now?
AG: That was not the case at all. At that time, the Council of Experts had picked Ayatollah Montazeri by itself, and from the very beginning Ayatollah Khomeini was opposed to it. Those who were privy to his disagreements set the stage in such a way that less than four years later the issue came up and, at first, Ayatollah Khomeini deposed Ayatollah Montazeri, and then the Council of Experts came in and rubberstamped Mr. Khomeini’s choice. So even then the Council of Experts became completely followed the will of the supreme leader, and did not stand against it.
Yes, even in 1985 they [the Council of Experts] passed a secret resolution which called for Mr. Monatezeri to be the successor to Mr. Khomeini, thinking that Ayatollah Khomeini approved of such a measure. Since the constitution did not anticipate matters like this, such a resolution was passed in caution, to preclude any possible crisis in the future. But as we saw, when Ayatollah Khomeini disagreed and set aside Mr. Montazeri, the Council of Experts simply consented and did not stand in the way of the supreme leader.
There has not ever been an instance in the Islamic Republic of the Council of Experts even offering recommendations to the supreme leader. The Council has always acted in a subordinate role, when in fact, according to the constitution, the opposite ought to be the case. The supreme leader must be in a subordinate position relative to the Council of Experts, not the other way around. But, regrettably, the Council of Experts has developed such that it has never found such a place in the 30-year history of the Islamic Republic.
D-W: Apart from the Council of Experts, how would you evaluate the role of the Grand Ayatollahs [Maraje’] in Qom? It seems like a few of them have yet to congratulate Mr. Ahmadinejad on his victory in the election, and a few of them even refrained from participating in last week’s Friday prayer sermons. Can one be hopeful that they can play a positive role in mitigating the current situation?
AG: No! In my opinion, since these sources do not hold any official legal positions, their views and decisions have no legal standing, and in any event the social situation does not permit them to speak their minds openly. In the end, any disagreements which may take place – such as disagreements aired by Ayatollah Montazeri or Ayatollah Sanei – will be shut down by the government or boycotted altogether, and therefore none of them would dare to speak out, even though he may be against what is happening.
These disagreements are of the kind which may often be discussed in private. But we have never seen any of the Grand Ayatollah’s publicly oppose the supreme leader or even the views of the supreme leader. There have been times when there were public disagreements with either the judicial, executive or legislative branches of government, but never any public disagreements with the supreme leader himself or his interests.
The reason is that the security atmosphere in the country is so heightened that when they [Grand Ayatollahs] see how Ayatollah Montazeri - who was the second most important figure in the revolution - has been dealt with – in effect violating all his legal rights and his life – they can only wonder what would happen to them. Even many years ago in some private discussions, they expressed that they were worried how they would be treated if even Ayatollah Montazeri was not spared. Therefore, the atmosphere is not conducive for the Grand Ayatollahs to publicly disagree with the office of the supreme leader.
Yes, clergymen can express disagreement in suggestive ways and through their negative behavior, but only as long as they don’t confirm anything and do not talk about anything. For instance, just as they don’t publicly disagree, they don’t publicly agree either. From this people can sense that there is disagreement between these gentlemen, but the terms of disagreement are managed by the rulers at the end of the day, and they get their way no matter what. In addition, they put these people under a tremendous amount of pressure by constantly questioning them and putting them under pressure, so much so that, as was the case the other night, as soon as they were able to get remarks from Ayatollahs Safi and Ameli with the slightest hint of agreement with the government, they were broadcast everywhere on television and radio.
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 3183 Location: Capacious Creek
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject:
Okay I admit I haven't read
the above posts or listened to the interview.
Apparently missed this buffoonery from Russia Today
featuring Craig Roberts and
drum roll...Wayne Madsen.
Not that we shouldn't have missed it...
but not bad as comic relief and more evidence
of Wayne's disgusting work.
All one can do is laugh about it because you can tell in the video that Wayne knows he couldn't pull this one off. So classically pathetic that I
can't even hate the guy for trivializing human rights abuses.
Last edited by bri on Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total
More impropaganda, courtesy of a certain Texan's Sheffield-based MI5 handlers:
Iranian Interior Minister: Western Intelligence Behind Riots And Unrest
Wednesday, June 24, 2009
Iranian Interior Minister: Western Intelligence Behind Riots And Unrest 240609MahsouliIran’s interior minister, Sadeq Mahsouli has accused Western intelligence of backing the riots in Iran following the controversial election results.
Mahsouli’s comments were given very little mainstream media coverage, but were picked up by AFP and Reuters.
Mahsouli has claimed that U.S., U.K., and Israeli interests are behind the unrest.
“Britain, America and the Zionist regime (Israel) were behind the recent unrest in Tehran,” the Interior Minister was quoted as saying by the semi-official Fars News Agency.
“Many of the rioters were in contact with America, CIA and the MKO and are being fed by their financial resources,” he said.
Of course, the Iranian government has its own axe to grind, but Mahsouli’s statement increases the focus on claims that Western intelligence agencies are stoking civil disobedience in the hope of fomenting regime change in Iran.
You do not have to take the Iranian government’s word as evidence for this.
There is no debate over the fact that a CIA Covert destabilization campaign inside Iran has been ongoing for over two years.
US Military, intelligence, and congressional sources say a secret war is being vamped to bring down the current Iranian leadership. This involves funding anti-government terrorist groups inside Iran, such as Jundullah and the MEK/MKO.
While president Obama has been quick to denounce such suggestions as “patently false”, arch globalist geopolitical manipulators Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski have both hinted that US interests are currently operating to advance their own agendas with regards to Iran and the middle east.
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 3183 Location: Capacious Creek
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject:
talk about keeping things foggy
NOW on CNN
A current TOP story in World News
yeah, with a big picture and all that jazz
Iranian envoy: CIA involved in Neda's shooting?
Ambassador to Mexico says CIA or other intelligence service may be to blame
CIA spokesman says idea is "wrong, absurd and offensive"
Envoy says foreign forces wanted to use bloodshed against Iranian government
Media aren't reporting on pro-Ahmadinejad demonstrations, he says
Funny little game they're playing here.
Brutal analysis soon to be seen on "Infowars.shite"
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