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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: G8 Aims for a G20 New World Order Reply with quote


G8 Aims for a G20
New World Order

by Fintan Dunne, BeakForNews.com - 17th November, 2008

The G20 Summit just took place, and by all accounts (mainstream Laughing ),
it didn't acheive much that is earth-shaking --and it fell far short of a
re-enactment of the histroic Bretton Woods event which established
dollar hegemony.

But it did (the mainstream say) mark the end of an era of US dominance
of the international financial scene. An end of the era of financial
unilateralism, so to speak. And the dawn of a (cue a by now boring
new media meme)
New Financial World Order.

All of which is highly coincidental --considering that the demise of GOP
control of the US presidency marks the end of military unilateralism
(says the mainstream Laughing ). And heralds the dawn of a (...sigh, again)
New Multilateral World Order..

If by now you are suspecting that you are being fed a line of carefully-
orchestrated bullshit by the mainstream media --then you are on to it. Wink

But then you probably were on to it a long time ago.

Truth is, the G20 Summit was NOT MEANT to achieve anything of real
significance. It was meant to achieve...... a G20 Financial Summit !! Wink


It was meant to establish the New Financial World Order PARADIGM.

And that will do nicely for now, thank you very much.

With the REAL action to come in 2009.

Softly, softly, catch-ee monkey.....

Note the multilateral spin in the media account below.
And note this key extract from the final paragraph:

....The summit effectively sounded the death knell for
the exclusive club of rich nations represented by the G8.

As far as global governance is concerned,
the G20 is the future,
the G8 the past

You might get the impression from the above, that the G8 is history
and the G20 is a more equitable, kinder, gentler replacement.

If you have, then the NWO spinmiesters will be very pleased.

In fact, the reverse is true. The G8+China at the core of the G20
have all the strong financial and military leverage to dominate the group.

Additional nations are being drawn into the G8 financial/military control
arena. They are nations either already fully under direct political/intelligence
control by the G8, or soon to be.

The G8, with China are inching towards NWO global control.


They are the force behind the 9/11 attacks;
and the occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan/Pakistan and Chechnya (soon East Africa);
and the dismantling of civil rights in the USA....
and the dismantling of the USA itself....

I have been describing the G8 as the power behind the New World Order
since an article on 10th June, 2004 and audios around that time.

Dawn of the G8 New World Order

Reuters Propaganda Photo:
Iraqi children from the village of Al-Shohadaa

BreakForNews.com, 10th June, 2004
by Fintan Dunne, Editor

In the last few days the totalitarian domination of the developing world
has solidified around the annexation of Iraq. And the G8 elite have
moved swiftly on to outline the next phase of their New World Order.


As this global Power makes it's play, by manipulating the global economy,
I take it as confirmation and vindication of my call four years ago that
the G8 IS the NWO.

Within the G8 are powerful corporate, private, and old money players.
But is is the political, financial and intelligence (see 9/11) apparatus
of the G8 that is the implementing power of the NWO.

They just moved the gameplan on to the next level.

Say hello to the G20 New World Order.


In that article four years ago I also
wrote these prophetic words:

Meanwhile the globalization-induced readjustment of U.S. living standards
continues --under the smokescreen of war, even as the corporates raid
the treasury
before finally departing the U.S. for lower cost shores.

With hardly a whimper from the betrayed U.S. middle
and lower classes
--thanks to the diversionary War on Terror.

So, rather than: "Down with the parasitic fat cats."
And: "You won't get me, I'm part of the Union."

It's: "Down with Osama the terrorist."
And: "Al-Quaida won't get me, I'm part of Homeland Security."

Wag, Wag, Wag. The tail wags the dog.
It's all been a movie, with players and a script.
You are living in a Wag the Dog movie.

Welcome to the G8 New Word Order.

Even as the G20 gathered in Washington last week, a series of side
meetings were ongoing, where world leaders met with luminaries from
the Council on Foreign Relations.

Russian Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was one of those who graced
the meeting halls of the CFR --introduced by Madeleine Albright, who was
standing in for US President-Elect Barak Obama.


What a cosy world it is in the inner sanctums bidding for global power.

Next year will see more predictable financial woes to build on the G20
economic integration agenda which has now been established. Also on
the cards is a restart of the collapsed Doha World Trade negociations.
And continuing progress on bilateral arrangements such as the recent
cooperation between France and Canada.

All incremental steps on a ladder.

But even as they met to advance the financial, trade and political control
of the globe, the peoples of Europe and the United States remain the
biggest impediment to that agenda.

For example, in the days leading up to the G20 meeting, Spain saw
protests in Madrid --where demonsrators burned Euro currency notes
in opposition to the state-corporate golbalization agenda.


Those protests came hard on the heels other demonstrations where
hundreds of people threw bottles, fireworks and fencing at the Japanese
Nissan company offices in Barcelona to protest at Nissan's decision to cut
1,680 jobs at its factory in the city because of weak demand.

That protest coincided with demonstrations against the closure of a
shipyard in Gijon, northern Spain, where protesters barricaded streets
with burning tyres and set off fireworks.

And even as the G20 try to consolidate political power, others want to
retain local independence from such unresponsive power structures.
Around twenty thousand demonstrators took to the streets last month
in the Basque region of Spain, demanding the right to a referendum on

And all that is just in one country, Spain.

And all that is ahead of deepening recessionary forces due in 2009,
which will anger and motivate ordinary people even further.

As the saying goes, it ain't over, until it's over.

And it's not even close to over yet.


Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.

Last edited by Fintan on Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:56 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all pretty much the same old royal game of rule the world. It's never over.

Build empire, make pacts with mini empires, either through force or friendship, and keep the peasants contained. In more recent history they dress the game up as a world united in peace and prosperity where we will all live happily ever after.

For eons there have been those "leaders" who believe they should be the boss at the head of the table, even if they meet at a round table. On cue, some member of the "alliance" will always get the notion they should be the top dog, either because of pesky human nature or by design - then bam - big war (ka-ching) and new order, again.

What pisses me off is their endless sport demands a lot of peasant blood.

There is a side of every competitor that wants to leave his opponent lifeless and demoralized on the side of the road. And then there is that other, darker side.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe we should make it a G-650,000,000,000 and counting...

here's a view of the meeting that doesn't look so scary

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=210517&title=clusterf#@k-to-the-poor-house Very Happy

Birth is the first example of " thinking outside the box"
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the quickly-fading afterglow of the Obama phenomenon,
and with the financial market tsunamis of September/October
already moving off the media agenda, it easy to lose sight of the
underlying economic realities behind the G8 > G20 move.

This is an economic catastrophe which is the child of years of vested-
interest Monopoly Capitalism --now trying to morph to an even more
destructive Global Monopoly State Command Capitalism.

The system is in screaming need of vast reform. The embedded
Pharma parasite gobbles trillions of dollars and flushes it down the toilet
of useless activity that adds nothing to our social wealth or health.

Agriculture lumbers on in unsustainable petrochemical madness. The
banking, bureaucratic and political structures stifle innovation to maintain
their hold on power. Drug use policy swallows funding and provides only
negative social benefit in return.

Command Economy abuses such as these could be sustained as long
as cheap foreign labor and theft of foreign natural resources could bloat
profits to hide the systemic dysfunction. But in a globally competitive
trading environment this fat is being cut away by the day, and the
underlying waste of social and productive resources --if unreformed--
offers only to drag us all down to the lowest wage denominator.

Ty Andros explores the scale of the hard realities for the
'Western', developed G8 end of the G20 trading system:

The Crack-Up Boom (Part XII)

14 November 2008 - Ty Andros
Managed Futures & Alternative Investment Specialist

The Policies of Insolvency

As the G7 banking systems continue their plunge into the abyss, so do the
world's economies. Public servants, governments and central banks are
firing every policy option they have to keep the confidence of consumers
and business from collapsing. NOTHING is working as the dominoes of
confidence fall faster then they can run ahead of the game.

The US and G7 governments are still trying to PICK winners and losers so
confusion reigns supreme. Which set of corporate or financial elites will be
let into the financial lifeboats and which shall be allowed to fail? That is
the question.

Years of below market interest rates and CRONY capitalism have
spawned huge industries which no longer produce more then they
, so wealth creation has lurched into reverse and is now wealth
destruction on an enormous scale never before seen in history. Look no
further than the American Auto Industry which has finally come to the end
of the line from decades of mismanagement, multiple tries at reinventing
itself and FAILURE to control costs and build cars which SELL for more
then they cost to create.

NOW THE JIG IS UP! Rest assured they WILL BE RESCUED but the cure
will be worse then the disease with respect to the American economy.
ZOMBIE companies let politicians decide what they shall build and how
much they shall pay their employees WITHOUT regard to PROFITABILITY
and cost effective ubiquity. Substituting their fantasies as to what can
BEST serve the future needs of consumers and the demands of their
campaign supporters and directing PRECIOUS capital to NONPRODUCTIVE
uses. Political rather than practical solutions -- one approach works and
the other does not. Can you guess which direction will solve the problem?
It's not the political one…

100's of thousands of jobs will be subsidized at the expense of the
American taxpayer who ultimately pays the cost of public servants follies
in supporting campaign contributors such as the UAW and local
democratic supporters in the States which host these factories. If the
rescue package sustains those gold plated pay, pension and medical
benefits rather than move them to the Pension Benefit Guarantee
Administration where all pensions of BANKRUPT companies go. It is an
outrage; why is an auto worker to being held above any other worker in
the US?

Outrageously overpaid jobs which CONSUME more than they produce
are creating permanent WARDS of the STATE paid for by the public at
large. Not until this anti-competitive situation is RECTIFIED will the
industry even have a chance to recover.

Years of cheap financing has brought forward demand creating GLUTS of
capacity and inventory and the auto industry is not going to come back
for a decade of more. Attempts to put off the destruction of excess
capacity, bloated UNION pay packages and bloated inventories will only
prolong the unfolding general recession and prevent the painful return to
future economic health for these companies and the US economy in

If the auto industry is RESCUED without conditions that require they
return to profitability, then the markets will PUNISH this moral and fiscal
bankruptcy and outrage; as it tips the hand that solvency and profitability
issues are BEING IGNORED by the mandarins in Washington DC.

Unions that have monopolies on the labor in the industries they organize
have driven off shore every industry except autos, airlines, health care
and government services. Health care, airlines and autos are all bankrupt
or passing the cost to consumers for the excess compensation; the only
industries which could not leave by definition. Now they want to expand
there reach to Wal-Mart and others who have remained competitive, and
they expect Obama and the Democratic Party to pass laws which will
make their organizing activities subject to thugs and fraught with peril for
those that dare to cross the bullies. The elite poster child of this effort will
be Wal-Mart. Everyday low prices will disappear for everybody so a few
unionized employees can be OVERPAID.

Barack Obama has now been elected and his policies will mirror those of
Franklin Roosevelt. A new "NEW DEAL" looms and just as the new deal
lead to a lost decade economically, it will do so NOW
. Hope is not a good
trading strategy or a recipe for economic growth. The "something for
nothing" constituent will now demand government DO SOMETHING and a
wrecking ball looms in our futures. There will be a DEPRESSION and,
although deflationary NOW, hyperinflation looms as EVERY government
solution will CONSUME more then it creates, producing vast new
requirements for MONEY and credit creation; also known as the printing
press and deficit spending. They are putting NOOSES around the necks of
the public, for now and the FUTURE.

The biggest economies in the world are in freefall with the emerging
tigers following in close order. The collapse in income from the
WOLFWAVE (see Tedbits archives at www.TraderView.com ) is
breathtaking to say the least. Take a look at this chart from a recent New
York Times outlining a fall in new orders, provided by the respective
regional manufacturing surveys:

Only India reflects a still-growing economy, the rest are in dire straights.
These charts will not be turning around anytime soon and momentum
LOWER is ferocious. Capital investment is set to FALL OFF a cliff just as
the developed world economies are doing. And why should orders pick up
anytime soon as RETAIL sales are in freefall:

This route in retail sales is echoed across the G7; an economic tsunami of
epic proportions is unfolding. Retail sales in the US were announced this
morning down -2.2 percent ex aircraft and autos. Any business which
relies on cheap financing for customers to drive sales and additional
profitability is TOAST. What you see in auto sales is set to be echoed
through many industries and industrial titans such as GE (General
Electric). Companies that borrowed short term and lent long are going
down soon as their short term notes will not roll without GREAT PAIN. In
fact, the higher rates may send many of their business models into

Meanwhile, the US Federal Reserve, as holder of the world's RESERVE
currency, is now becoming the lender of last resort and creating
UNLIMITED dollar swaps to prop up the dollar requirements of the world's
economies. Why must these swaps be made? It's because borrowers
around the world borrow in Dollars creating a synthetic short position in
the dollar. In order to pay off their borrowing they must convert their
domestic money into dollars to pay off their obligations. When the Dollar
rises against their domestic scripts it is basically creating new obligations
that are piling up, this is going on around the globe as the dollar rockets
higher in a short covering bonfire.

It is one of the biggest reasons the Dollar is rising and will continue to do
so as trillions of Dollar-denominated loans must roll over or be paid off in
the next twelve months. But it does not change the fact that when they
PRINT the money and send it to the other central banks that the printing
occurs out of THIN air, as does the printing of the money by the Bank of
England, European central bank or whoever the currency swap was
conducted with: Australia, Korea, Singapore, Switzerland, etc.

The Federal reserves BALANCE sheet has now MUSHROOMED by over
120% in the last six weeks from under $1 trillion to over $2.2 trillion now.
They REFUSE to report the nature of those assets, as to do so would
probably reveal they are holding a good amount of WORTHLESS collateral
and have exchanged them for the perceived quality of US Treasury Bills;
leaving the taxpayer with the junk and the bill. Can you say FLEECED?

This growth is echoed throughout the G7 central banks. Look for those
G7 balance sheets and that of the US Treasury to QAUDRUPLE in the
coming years.
October's budget deficit was almost $240 billion dollars,
signaling the oncoming multi-trillion Dollar US budget deficit, my guess is
it will arrive this year. Unlimited currency swaps now abound in the trillions
of Dollars, Euros, Pounds, etc. all created out of thin air by and between
the respective central banks. Money supply growth is rocketing; let's take
a look at the numbers from the Saint Louis Fed:

WOW, breathtaking to say the least, 43% growth year over year, 785%
annual growth rate since MID-SEPTEMBER brings to mind the WEIMAR
Republic. Keep in mind, this is the concentrated growth stock of future
monetary growth BEFORE it enters the fractional banking system. So each
Dollar you see here can create 10 new Dollars of lending. When you see
a chart that goes VERTICAL like that NOTHING good can come of it.
Although this is why gold is holding up well into the teeth of the Dollar
rally and can be expected to eventually turn higher. The public servant
and central bank printing party has just BEGUN.

But it won't matter, as who in their right mind will borrow money at this
point except the insane people in WASHINGTON DC, London and the BOE
(Bank of England) and Brussells/EU governments; all big DEBTORS. Or
those people and companies who are so deep in debt now that they will
just drink more poison to their futures to live for a short while longer in
HOPE of a miracle. HOPE is not an investment strategy…

Their something for nothing constituents are SCREAMING for them to
DO SOMETHING and do something they will; they will try to rescue
UNPROFITABLE enterprises and crony capitalist campaign supporters
rather than let them fail and be replaced with companies which are
PROFITABLE and have bright futures. This is known as WEALTH creation
and it is the bedrock to GROWING economies; remove it and misery is
just spread in widening circles by FIAT currency and credit creation. And,
as economic growth and WEALTH creation are collapsing MORE monetary
growth will be required to substitute for the collapsing income.

Investors are now shunning securitized credit card, student and auto
loans -- shutting down those lending areas as well. Hank Paulson is now
swinging the TARP (troubled asset relief program) in this direction and
shunning the assets the program was created to purchase. In the last 8
weeks approximately 8 trillion Dollars, Euros, Pounds, Aussie Dollars, etc
have been either CREATED or are slated to be spent and borrowed from
investors to then be directed by GOVERNMENTS and CENTRAL BANKS into
unfolding BLACK holes of capital; further delaying the direction of capital
to where it can produce more than it consumes and creates new growth
and JOBS.

Private equity firms face their unfolding DEMISE because they overpaid
for the businesses they bought and collapsing revenues will not support
the borrowing costs; these are classic MAL- investments in the Von Mises
definition. Hundreds of private equity portfolio companies will undergo the
convulsion of chapter 11 reorganization SOON. Good companies acquired
at inflated prices and loaded up with debt at the top of the credit cycle,
now dead men walking, are awaiting their demise as cash flow and profit
retreats to unimagined levels, but debt servicing REMAINS.

Energy production, which was such a hot button campaign issue, is now
set to go back to the DARK ages. Off shore drilling, sensible clean coal
technologies and nuclear power are all set for further reversals and in
their place windmills and solar power will be the ANNOITED courses of
action. Rolling blackouts and power shortages will begin to appear in the
coming years as GREEN energy FAILS to produce the required needs of a
growing populous. And trillions of Dollars will continue to be sent OFF
SHORE rather than support practical and affordable domestic oil, clean
coal, natural gas and nuclear industries. Do you ever wonder if 800 billion
Dollars a year into the US might support many new jobs rather than jobs
in other countries?

SENSIBLE and COST EFFECTIVE energy development, which takes 5 to
10 years to implement and finish, is now going to be put off indefinitely.
Cap and trade global warming legislation (as the tax man in disguise) is
set for the very near future and a new BURDEN on the struggling middle
class is set to save it from the boogey man. In the UK this legislation was
passed LAST WEEK so you can mourn for our UK brethren as the fleecing
by government public serpents NEVER ENDS. Those UK public serpents,
er servants, know the taxman is "persona non grata" at this point so they
are putting a disguise on him telling you he and they will save you.

The decades-long sunspot cycle appears to have turned and rapid cooling
and cold winters can be anticipated for many years and decades into the
future. You can expect BIG pushes by G7 public serpents to implement
brutal new global warming legislation BEFORE it becomes apparent to the
public that it is a BIG LIE. Once passed never to be repealed, permanent
new obligations on G7 citizens for public servants to REWARD their special
interest elites and collect taxes FOREVER on a problem they have NO
ABILITY to solve. Can you say FLEECED?

These laws will also allow them to decide the winners and losers in energy
production in return for CAMPAIGN contributions from big new industries
which would otherwise FAIL if the marketplace was deciding the winners.
Look no further than the ethanol industry to see what lay ahead; it serves
NO ONE, not the consumer, not the producer, it is a permanent hole in
capital formation, government deficits and consumer pocketbooks.
Ethanol plants are falling into bankruptcy daily and the cost of food has
doubled for this most uneconomical endeavor. Look for windmills and
solar to join this parade of the policies of insolvency by the economic
wizards in Washington.

Look for ENVIRONMENTALLY friendly energy and practically challenged
POLITICAL solutions to affect your pocketbook on an increasing basis. As
Barack says, "good high paying jobs", but the high pay WON'T come from
profitability but from the taxpayer. Can you say FLEECED!

Electric bills and gasoline prices can be expected to TRIPLE before the
end of the new liberal democratic presidential administration ends it first
term. This is the definition of hope and a new way of doing things,
economic pearl harbors to our future economic growth. When public
servants decide how to allocate capital you can expect it to be destroyed.
Only the private sector can provide "more for less" money, now you can
expect to get considerably "less for more" money. Can you say FLEECED!

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are back for more of the money
appropriated in September to the tune of another 100 billion dollars and it
is clear that much of the money to RESCUE the banks will go to BONUSES
for employees and dividends to shareholders. An incredible moral
bankruptcy, employees which oversaw deep bankruptcies and
shareholders who failed to supervise their investments in a prudent
manner are being REWARDED for their incompetence at taxpayer
expense. Can you say FLEECED!

Dozens of companies are now lining up for RESCUES from their poor
business decisions and suffocating debt levels -- many will be rescued.
Just yesterday American Express converted to a bank to QUALIFY for the
government gravy train. The AIG recue doubled in size; ultimately look
for it to triple from here. Big money creditors and campaign contributors
are being rescued by the CENTRAL bank and government. Can you say

Powerful reversals in stock, bond, currency and commodity markets
occurred today with rallies that can be expected to last several weeks to
a few months. The markets now should move in counter trend fashion.
Nothing will reverse the powerful downtrends in G7 economies, but a
breather appears to be on the horizon which will probably unfold in
Fibonacci time and price fashion. Volume on this reversal is atrocious and
on rallies signaling BEAR market rallies.

In conclusion: We are on a one way ride into HELL, with our freedoms
taken and the bills sent to you and me. Every Dollar, Euro, Pound, Aussie
and Canadian Dollar that is borrowed or printed will go to save corporate,
banking and government elites who have conducted themselves in a
completely irresponsible manner "morally and fiscally" and created
businesses which consume more than they produce.

I have never missed a mortgage payment or borrowed more then I can
repay but I am asked to subsidize those that have done so. The world
now punishes those who have prudence and rewards those that have
practiced irresponsibility. What's wrong with this picture?

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly
is to fill the world with fools

-- Herbert Spencer, English philosopher (1820-1903)
Thanks Bill King, of the King Report, for this quote.

This is the definition of MORAL hazard and the GREENSPAN/BERNANKE
put. After several decades of this we have arrived at this moment in
history. Many media reports of government PROTECTING the TAXPAYER
are HOOEY; you and I are being taken for a ride to save BIG CAMPAIGN
contributors. An expensive one. While the fools and idiots are rewarded
and rescued from their own incompetence and corruption. The road to
hell is paved with good intentions and we are the road kill.

The path the G7 has embraced virtually guarantees a long decline in
net disposable income
, they replaced income growth with inflated
stocks and real-estate but those have just had a disappearing act. Initially
deflationary as the world of business and wealth creation falls to the
public servant's incompetence, but ultimately hyperinflationary as they
print and spend their way to perceived prosperity when their ideas create
increasing failures. Unfortunately, prosperity and wealth creation come
from capitalism not socialism and government direction of the economies,
capital and means of production.

Intel's warning coupled with the retail sales plunge signal far more bad
news to come, it is not priced in. Look no further than 2, 5, 10 and 30-
year notes; they are signaling broad fires burning in the financial systems
and economies of the G7 and the world.

There is only one good thing about this. WE KNOW what's unfolding.
Markets are MISPRICED to this unfolding reality. Stocks, bonds,
commodities, currencies and all markets must PRICE in these new and
unfolding tsunamis to the future. VOLATILITY IS OPPORTUNITY AND IT IS
GOING TO BE WITH US FOR YEARS! Learn to prosper from it. The
greatest transfer of wealth in history is UNDERWAY, from those that hold
their wealth in paper to those that DON'T! BUY and hold is dead, you must
learn to make money in rising and falling markets.


Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
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Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss... Reply with quote


Hi all,

If you look at the map which Fintan attached of the G20 countries, you have the developed members in green and developing in blue.

However, it is the grey areas which are most interesting; Eastern Europe, Central Asia, most of Africa and Central and South America: regions currently undergoing transformation through; EU expansion, 'War on Terror', Western 'Aid'\'Peacekeeping' and the FTAA\Amero project. Idea

A good resource for putting this vision in context is to be found at the following address- http://www.worldmapper.org/
Especially if you compare this map of world arms exports 2003-

With this map of war deaths in 2002-

Are you getting the picture yet? Wink

This so-called global crisis is not a recession of the global economy, since

A The global economy is not global, it's western or G8.
B A recession is actually a rebalancing of unrestrained greed in the first place
C The real is crisis is not the orchestrated events which brought these G20 people together but the fact that they are all meeting at all Exclamation

That photo of Medvedev and Albright at the CFR is a cracker and should instigate a BFN photo caption competition forthwith! Laughing

How about this for a first volley-
Albright 'And this year's honorary NATO membership goes to Russia!'
Medzedev 'Soon I will deliver you Finland, oh wise and powerful master!'

Yep, yep, yep, the Red Coup Gambit audio and Yuri Bezmenov's ideological subversion phases got me thinking.
Finland is definitely going through the 'demoralisation' phase.
2 school shootings in the space of the last year, (including one narrow escape 2 weeks ago which the authorities will not disclose details of due to 'security reasons') the widescale closing down of sawmills and erosion of the paper industry, a 10-12 year ongoing mooting of NATO membership, without any upfront debate.

Last week I found this tucked away in the Helsinki Times-

Apparently the Finnish Government is exploring the legal implications of NATO membership, i.e. how to get around the constitutional obstacles, hoodwink the people and make it look like a logical progression.

The normalisation phase is already underway, NATO exercises and equipment already in Finland, PfP, Chad deployment.

Quite similar to what the Irish Government is doing with the Lisbon Treaty.
'N'est ce pas?'
''Concessions on key issues....blah, blah, blah....decision in December (we made it June 13th)...etc.
Bring it on!
We'll vote it down again and again and again...

Then where will you be G20 or whatever your real name is? Sad
Oh Boo-hoo-hoo...



P.S. Fintan, I was disappointed not to see your name in the list of invitees at the oireachtas All-Party committee on Ireland future in Europe Cool
...could have 'exposed' Declan Ganley and Libertas Wink



Libertas plans European election run
Tuesday, 18 November 2008 15:07
Libertas founder Declan Ganley says he hopes to be able to field candidates in next June's European Parliament elections, but he would only do so if he could run candidates across multiple member states.

He said that was the only way to bring the debate back to where it needs to be, in Brussels.

Mr Ganley said Europe needs a constitution on which every citizen in Europe had to be given a vote.

He also told the Oireachtas Committee on Ireland's future in the EU that 'there are charades being played to try and walk us into a second referendum' such as gobshites like me opposing it. Oops sorry Declan Baby that was me putting words in your mouth ed. Razz .

Libertas was to the forefront in the successful campaign for a No vote in the referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Committee Chairman Senator Paschal Donohoe (FG) said it was important that members hear submissions from all sides before the committee compiles its final report toward the end of next week.

Committee schedule:

10am: Mr Declan Ganley - Libertas
11.30am: Prof Richard Sinnott, School of Politics and International Relations, UCD
2pm: Institute of International and European Affairs
Brendan Halligan, Chairman
Peader O'Broin, Senior Researcher
Patrick Keatinge, Professor Emeritus, Trinity College Dublin and member of the IIEA
Anthony Brown, Chairman Publications Committee
4pm: Prof Farrel Corcoran, School of Communications DCU
5pm Fintan Dunne of Break for News wipes the floor with all and sundry (Oops, sorry not in the original article.- hee! hee! hee!) Twisted Evil

The full membership of the Sub-Committee is:

Senator Paschal Donohoe, Fine Gael (Chairman)
Thomas Byrne, TD (Fianna Fáil)
Joe Costello, TD (Labour)
Lucinda Creighton, TD (Fine Gael)
Timmy Dooley, TD (Fianna Fáil)
Beverley Flynn, TD (Fianna Fáil)
Michael McGrath, TD (Fianna Fáil)
Billy Timmins, TD (Fine Gael)
Senator Deirdre de Búrca (Green Party)
Senator Pearse Doherty (Sinn Féin)
Senator Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Senator Phil Prendergast (Labour)

'Essayons de ne pas rire avant la fin d'Hamlet'-'Let us try not to laugh before the end of Hamlet'- Pierre Desproges.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome maps Neil - revealing
the reality of what is going on!

Before broadening this discussion, let me lay out one final piece of
the G20 agenda. How are the financials going to play out?

(Bearing in mind that there is a big difference between an economic
collapse and a financial collapse. We have a current crisis in the latter,
along with a healthy dose of the former, arising from global overcapacity.)

Sarel Oberholster has a great analysis, comparing the current situation
to the persistent, moribund Japanese stagnation of the last decade.

He first examines the record in Japan, highlighting at the
start some relevant comments by Bernanke in 2000:

Beware December 29th

by Sarel Oberholster - Friday, November 14, 2008

Japanese Monetary Policy: A Case of Self-Induced Paralysis?
Ben S. Bernanke, Princeton University, December 1999
For presentation at the ASSA meetings, Boston MA, January 9, 2000.

“Suppose the Bank of Japan prints yen and uses them to acquire foreign
assets. If the yen did not depreciate as a result, and if there were no
reciprocal demand for Japanese goods or assets (which would drive up
domestic prices), what in principle would prevent the BOJ from acquiring
infinite quantities of foreign assets, leaving foreigners nothing to hold but
idle yen balances?” [p20]

“By a fiscal component I mean some implicit subsidy, such as would arise
if the BOJ purchased nonperforming bank loans at face value, for
example (this is of course equivalent to a fiscal bailout of the banks,
financed by the central bank). This sort of money-financed “gift” to the
private sector would expand aggregate demand for the same reasons
that any money-financed transfer does. Although such operations are
perfectly sensible from the standpoint of economic theory, I doubt very
much that we will see anything like this in Japan…” [p23-p24]

You can call it a “lack of confidence” when you cheat on your wife or
girlfriend and get caught out. You can sweet talk your way back into
“confidence” but should not believe that you can continue to cheat. Do
not complain to others that the problem with your relationship is a lack of
“confidence” then continue cheating. The excruciatingly simple answer is
that your cheating is the problem. The “lack of confidence” is only a
symptom of your cheating.

Try explaining this simple concept to a Central Banker. They cheat on the
market with unlimited liquidity and artificially low interest rates. A “lack of
confidence” they say, is the problem when the market catches them at it.
Then they want to sweet talk the market but go right back to cheating. On
29 December 1989 the Nikkei kicked out the sweet talking Japanese
Central Bankers. Nineteen years later she still refuses to listen to their
sweet talking. Nineteen years they keep trying to talk their way back in
without giving up their cheating ways.

Central Bankers in the West treated the Japanese market behaviour like
that of a wilful child. Telling the Japanese you should cheat more and
sweet talk with more purpose. It did not work and sometime in 2007 the
sweet talking Romeo’s in the rest of the world also got kicked out. No
amount of sweet talking would restore confidence when they chose to go
on a cheating binge.

Stop cheating or stay outside in the cold. Nobody is listening.
Take a good look at what to expect for the next 20 years
should Central Bankers fail to stop their cheating ways.

Banking Stagnation.

Systemic banking failure with the Bank of Japan providing unlimited
liquidity and zero or near zero interest rates. This Central Bank policy
prevents debt clearing and ensures stagnation. It is no surprise that Bank
of Japan officials have designated the NPL (Non Performing Loan) as
enemy number one for Central Bank policy.

Long term Bear Market in Stocks with high volatility.

Let’s record the pivotal points again. 29 December 1989 intraday high of
38,957; 19 August 1992 intraday low of 14,194; 28 April 2003 intraday
low of 7604; and 28 October 2008 new intraday low at 6995. A nineteen
year Bear market in the Nikkei and still making new lows. Any stock
market trader would look upon this chart and identify the trend but know
that one wrong point of entry could end his career. This market is for long
term professionals and not for speculating taxi drivers.

Exploding Government Debt without
pressure on long term interest rates.

The Nikkei high of 29 December 1989 haunts this chart. Japan’s
Government liabilities exploded upwards and tapered off only at the
height of the boom in the rest of the world. How near is Japan to the
precipice of a Hyperinflationary episode?

Then Oberholster examines three options for
how the Fed et. al. will handle the financials.
He figures they will go for incremental liquidation
of debt over a period of up to 20 years

The world in 2008 stand before three choices,
none of them pleasant.

1. Liquidation of Debt.

This choice is the least palatable for politicians and Central Bankers alike.
It will bring about a market driven realignment of the economy. The
rebalancing of the economy will remove the malinvestment and structural
imbalances from the economy and produce fast recovery thereafter. An
undertaking to follow prudent and responsible Monetary and Fiscal policies
will restore that elusive “confidence”. The political will for this option does
not exist and it is therefore an unlikely scenario.

2. Japanese style incremental liquidation of debt.

All my research indicates that this process will take from fourteen years
to longer. The fourteen year benchmark is the extent to which monetary
policy had stimulated 20 year mortgage absorption below the 8%
crossover where capital repayment become more important than interest
repayment, which need to be rebalanced. The reality of the Japanese
scenario is as above, nineteen years and still counting. This is the
explicitly stated choice of the Politicians and Central Bankers as of
November 2008.
I can detect no change in the intent or rhetoric indicating
a change of heart. It is therefore very likely that we will get to experience
this scenario. The likelihood is high that the experience will prove worse
than Japan. Japan had savings, reserves and a huge Current Account
surplus and a rest of the world in an extraordinary boom to keep it from
slipping further into the abyss. Let’s not forget the Yen Carry Trade so
eloquently suggested by Bernanke to the BOJ in the quotation above.
(Beware anyone who does not comprehend that the FED could choose to
engage in exactly the same tactic). The 2007 Depressionary Bubble is
now world wide in decline with everybody trapped in its grip.

3. Hyperinflationary Bubble.

It requires one final co-operation between Monetary and Fiscal Policy.
The creation of money for direct spending by Central Government without
using the formation of debt as the distribution channel. The risk if
Monetary and particularly Fiscal interventions getting out of hand is high
but not likely for now (my sincere hope). I have no personal desire to
experience this scenario firsthand.

It is good to look at the 1929 experience. So too the 1970-1976
experiences. History gives us prior warning and we need to revisit the
lessons of yesterday but the Japan experience is the prior warning for the
2007 systemic collapse.

The cause was the same type of Monetary Policy, the collapse was the
same type of systemic banking failure and the remedy so far is the same.
Why would the result not be the same?

Sarel Oberholster
BCom (Cum Laude) CAIB(SA)
14 November 2008


Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this truculent rebellious talk, does anybody here think anyone else could rule us any better?

How about some suggestions

I thought people get the leaders they deserve
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wuh? There's talk of rebellion?

Most little sheeple will not rebel b/c they depend economically on government in some form or another - won't bite the hand that feeds them a crumb.

All this economic doom and gloom breeds fear - just where the guvmints want you. My dad was a young family man during the Great Depression and he said by the time the government got around to helping most folks had already helped themselves and one another.

My suggestion: Be as independent of government as possible. Stop the grand theft, aka bailouts. Stop looking to BigDaddy government to meet your needs. Stop expecting rescue from the same powers who have their foot on your neck - it ain't coming.

There is a side of every competitor that wants to leave his opponent lifeless and demoralized on the side of the road. And then there is that other, darker side.
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Posts: 998

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revolution! - Where does it start? With youself, at home, in your local neighbourhood. Think Global - Act Local!

evelyn said: ...by the time the government got around to helping most folks had already helped themselves and one another.

My suggestion: Be as independent of government as possible.

Absolutely right!

What to do? Here's some advice from a Guerrilla News Network blog :-

Call for a Global Bank Users Strike
The plan

We must withdrawal our support for the financial system. Everyday it exploits our debts, our savings, and our paychecks—to fund speculation, predatory lending, environmental destruction, and corporate expansion. This will be an indefinite strike which will not end until people’s debt is canceled just as Wall Street has been bailed out. It won’t finish until the current international financial system is abolished and alternatives are created that cover people’s needs and not those of speculators.

How will we do it?

We have prepared a pre-enrollment system when there are 1000 people signed up, the strike begins. This call is at an international level, but the aim is to promote supportive, organized local relationships that are the true source of power against finance capital. We will divide the enrollment lists by regions and begin regional strikes when enough people are interested and organized.

A support network will be required for all the participants in order to guarantee food and housing to each of us. Additionally, the strike itself tries to encourage the development of alternative, non-capitalist institutions in society by investing in ethical financial institutions or community-determined development projects. While institutions such as a credit unions and ethical banks are far from anti-capitalist, they represent a practical alternative that organized bank users could potential influence as they take action against big commercial banks.

Get involved

Find out more information: www.17-s.info and participate. Pre -enrollment is already open!!!

Crisis Group-

Bank Users Strike-
North America

Who knows Cataluña is relatively close, maybe I'll have a look.

As for all those strikes in Spain, you have to take into account that demonstrations in Spain are a national passtime.
For example, yesterday, here in Santiago, there were two separate demonstrations at the same time, more or less complaining about the same thing - Milk prices (we are in cow country) but with slightly different ideas on what should be done.
Classic problems with the EU - you can buy milk from France and Ireland in Barcelona, but from Galicia, you'd be lucky to find any!
So, 9000 people. It made the local news (well,they have nothing else to report on really) but with at least half a dozen other demonstrations in other parts of Spain, it didn't get a mention on national news.

And then after the "mani"(demo) it's off to the party! Food and drink is a culture here, almost a religion!

Of course they have absolutely no effect whatsoever. The government take absolutely no notice whatsoever. But at least we complained and had a party!

So, real effective moves?
Take all your money out of the bank, buy things of real useful value (ie. not a plasma tv)and organise locally and look after each other.

Because that fan hitting shit is on its way!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is this constant contradiction:
It won’t finish until the current international financial system is abolished and alternatives are created that cover people’s needs and not those of speculators.

All this economic doom and gloom breeds fear - just where the guvmints want you. My dad was a young family man during the Great Depression and he said by the time the government got around to helping most folks had already helped themselves and one another.

My suggestion: Be as independent of government as possible. Stop the grand theft, aka bailouts. Stop looking to BigDaddy government to meet your needs. Stop expecting rescue from the same powers who have their foot on your neck - it ain't coming

I know a lot of artists and found myself on the Yesmen mailing list, so I found Fintan's take on the whole shebang being a "fake"event somewhat odd.Fact is these earnest folks at the epicentre think that alternatives will be created for them to counter those nasty speculators.(sure there's cynical folks manipulating those ignorant dreams with "helpful" support)
It was only when I started trading that the whole earnest movement looked so naive.Just putting your own money on the line against another trader is hand to hand fighting.Someone's going to suffer if they can't handle it.
I'm not making a statement for the nobility of trading but to point out that any endeavour has risks and to make headway you are speculating.So Evelyn's view of self reliance and speculative risktaking is far more mature than whining about the unfairness of the world.From where I stand the reason it's unfair is to wise you up to start really taking part in life rather than just paper trading in your head.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Revolution, rebellion, the truculence of the sheep

You know Evelyn; I like your spirit, but keep this in mind:

I know you are a student of history. Look back at all the revolutions, rebellions, whether they are religious or political, and you will see that just about all the time [not always] when rebellions or revolutions have any degree of success, they are from the elite class, or at least the wealthy class, who because of their wealth have connections to the elite.

This is universally true, whether it be religious movements or political movements.

There will be no successful rebellion from the bottom of the barrel of society, there hardly is, save for maybe Spartacus, and you know what they did to them.


If you want to find wolves. look for the sheep
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


MLK's rebellion was from the bottom up.

Unfortunately, those $elf-appointed black leaders who followed, for reasons of greed and ego, encouraged American blacks to again live as helpless dependent slaves on the plantation. I don't blame the ruling class - they always assassinate, discredit, and/or outsmart a threat to the status quo.

Personally, there are many times when I think Blacks were socially and economically better off before the civil rights movement. But I know that's b/c the movement was co-opted by toads for the ruling class who came forth with excuses for blacks rather than accountability.

Smart folks know the "leaders" are sellouts and go on successfully anyway.

There is a side of every competitor that wants to leave his opponent lifeless and demoralized on the side of the road. And then there is that other, darker side.
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