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Tsunami was a deliberate nuclear detonation - nobody cares
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LonePunman



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Ruthless wrote:
Back when i was in college, ... Our professor told us with the size of the nukes we have "now" [read: then] (actual size, not detonation size), we cannot make an earthquake happen.


It would help immensely for scientific purposes if you had bothered to date this 'incident'.

"(actual size, not detonation size)"

What the hell does this phrase mean? It makes no sense. Do you mean "needed size versus then currently manufactured sizes"?

Your grammar at least is completely unclear.

As a scientist I know that this imprecision is near-useless and borders on a cheap smokescreen attempt:

"Back in my day...[insert reassuring sentiment here]"...

"Well, we already discussed that years ago, and decided...[insert point to be proven or properly documented at least here]"...



Quote:

The nuke has to be very small, much smaller then they have admitted we can build. (I cant remember off the top of my head the exact size it needs to be, ill search for the info...or maybe I'll do the calc myself


This argument also makes no sense: Do you mean the nuke has to be small to go undetected by third parties? or to leave no evidence? or to successfully disturb a faultline "just enough to trigger an event" without rearranging the tectonic plates or over-fault the area?

If you're going to claim to be a seismologist/geologist/geophysicist who can "calc it myself", I hope you went to more than just a 'college', and instead attended a (non-Mormon) University and acquired a PhD in physics majoring in geophysical processes.


Quote:

"...But if a college professor is talking to his students about that as a future possibility, then they are most likely doing research on it.
It could actually be used in a good manor: If geologists know an earthquake is gonna happen soon, rather then just wait it out, which can happen over a huge span of time, they can just use a nuke and make sure the area is clear of people, which would save a many lives.
But in reality they will prob only use that method as a front for the media and secretly put it to a more sinister use...as these people don't really care about saving lives.


A lovely quote that reads like it was written by Dr. Jones of Mormon U., Utah.

Providing a 'plausible' reason why universities research this stuff (as opposed to the real reason, the military industrial combine wants the power), while adding a reassurring pat for those cynics who balk at the humanitarian claims of the technocratic elite.




Quote:

I'll try to find more info on it, but im not keeping my hopes up as the research is prob "hush hush".


Don't keep your hopes up, because anything worth knowing that is currently secret military technology will not be accessable by a mere college grad without Pentagon security clearance.

Even a physicist doesn't get a 'card blanche' to know anything he asks about.


Last edited by LonePunman on Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LonePunman



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan wrote:

I was just sorta kidding when I made the
Unless they "were all in on it." comment.

I never thought that you would actually go there.

Ok. Sure. Every seismologist in the world with access to
the data, who might have been able to blow the whistle
on the nuking.... is keeping quiet.


Let us scientifically examine your statement here:

"Every seismologist" (however many there really are who might be qualified concurrently as military-nuclear detonation experts) simply doesn't HAVE ACCESS to "the data" (as if it could be conveniently looked up on the internet or your local reference library).

Are they 'keeping quiet'? probably not nearly as much as those who know 9/11 was an inside job firsthand are 'keeping quiet'.

Everybody knows that the natural tendency of university graduates employed in such key places under government programs is EXACTLY that: to KEEP QUIET and not jeopardize their tenure, their salary, their security clearance, their access to future data, their jobs.

Threats to life and limb to pets, and/or family members are hardly required. A simple letter from a lawyer will shut up most comfortably employed selfish technocrats far more effectively than any strongarm tactics. Why should those interested strain themselves when they don't have to?

Quote:

They saw a couple of hundred thousand people killed,
but they are saying nothing because the CIA threatened
to kidnap their parakeets. I get it.



Oh please. We've seen nearly 6 million people displaced in Iraq so far. and most Americans are still saying nothing. Even most of the military who are being forced to serve 5-6 duty cycles and are probably never coming home (except in a body bag) are still saying nothing.

You're telling me you're "surprised/astonished" that a handful of cowardly creepy seismologists with mortgages are saying nothing?

Don't you see its exactly the same case for 9/11?

By all means be a skeptic, but don't turn basic facts about human nature (selfish elitist priviledged middle/upper class technocrats) upside down to improve your 'skeptical method'.

Quote:

But seriously..... (ahem)
I'm on to your game to disinfo everybody with this nuke idea.


Wrong: I'm on the same side of things that every reasonable scientific enquirer of truth is (who isn't compromised): I want to know the facts, I am not selling anything.

I just happen to be from some other neighbourhood than yours.

Sorry my investigations are independant from your own by circumstance.



Quote:

It's pretty obvious that they hit that Indian Ocean trench
with the same space beam equipment used to take out the
Twin towers.


Oh please. I'm not selling space beams either. I'm a scientist. If there were any space beams, they must have been fired by aliens who had an unusual interest in homeless beachbums on the Indian seaboard.

Don't tar and feather me with flakey crap from people I don't even know, and with whom I've never had the priviledge to argue with on a scientific basis.


Quote:


krammer & Markattack nailed it:
...blah blah blah

beam weapons blah blah blah.




If I mention beam weapons as though Bush and Reagan could have intelligently conceived them by any means, feel free to smack me.



Quote:

And yeah, our seismological knowledge of tectonic plate
positions is such that we can easily tell when a huge
earthquake is imminent and just nudge it along. Piece of cake.

Case solved.



Once again "they" becomes "we" when it is convenient to join the 'establishment' scientific community in the West, for their expert opinions (which are never quoted or documented).

I love your sarcasm, but your scientific aptitude needs tweaking severely.

Its fair to say that NO person on the street knows what technology "we" have, if by "we" we mean the fucking Nazi Germans who came over after WWII and took all the high-paying and prestigious jobs in the USA.

As a Jew, I am appalled by your self-grouping with the royal stazi "we", meaning Seimens, GE, DOW, Boeing, etc.

But please, don't talk down to me like I was some white-collar retard who's been hired to run 'interference' on "your"(?) truth out movement, someone who wouldn't know a Florence flask from a flowerpot.

I'm a scientist. I don't wear tin hats unless I suspect I'm being direct-energy beamed with microwaves by an asshole in a van outside my house. It could happen, but I don't think I'm important enough.





Quote:

BTW. I got caught in a big thunderstorm yesterday.
I just know the CIA were behind it. Bastards.


If you're just going to heap distain and sarcasm all over me, a stranger, at least be funny.

Lewis Black is funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g
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LonePunman



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The nuke has to be very small, much smaller then they have admitted we can build. (I cant remember off the top of my head the exact size it needs to be, ill search for the info...or maybe I'll do the calc myself


I'm sorry: this zinger is still ringing loudly in my head.

"...I can't remember off the top of my head..." Embarassed

For those out of the loop, the minimum critical mass for a nuclear chain reaction with various fuels has been the both the most famous military secret, and the most carefully and successfully guarded one since World War II!


"..or maybe I'll do the calc myself..." Shocked

Wow! So you are in fact a nuclear physicist, but were taking a 'geophysics' course for laughs in 'college'? Wink

Your name wouldn't be Openheimmer would it? Cool

hmmmm...
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THX



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lonepunman:
Quote:
An event thats actually never happened before in the history of ocean disasters. A 'perfect storm'.

And why doesn't anyone say anything?


Hey, there's something unsettling in that statement. How can anyone be so informed about seismology facilities and stuff and say that tsunamis never happened before? Confused
I thought the word "Tsunami" formed part of the vocabulary (Japanese I believe) long before the 2004 catastrophe to denominate such events that "never happened before".
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LonePunman



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THX wrote:
Lonepunman:
Quote:
An event thats actually never happened before in the history of ocean disasters. A 'perfect storm'.

And why doesn't anyone say anything?


Hey, there's something unsettling in that statement. How can anyone be so informed about seismology facilities and stuff and say that tsunamis never happened before? Confused
I thought the word "Tsunami" formed part of the vocabulary (Japanese I believe) long before the 2004 catastrophe to denominate such events that "never happened before".


I guess that would seem unsettling, or to be some kind of half-formed "good question".

But lets actually recall the real historical facts;

(1) In the 30 or so years that I have been a literate informed adult in the West, I had never heard of the word "Tsunami" before 2004.

And I don't want to brag, but I've probably read 13,000 books, mostly science/math/history/current events/politics. My vocabulary is hardly small, probably covering 100,000 (?) words and a half-dozen languages. I was not 'cloistered'.

When the disaster hit, and the apparent fad of calling it a "Tsunami" took hold in the media, it took me weeks to figure out they were referring to an apparent 'tidal wave' (an event which is itself probably misnamed, and misunderstood by the majority of the educated population in the West).

In fact, I'd venture to say that almost anyone over 30 would probably have reacted to the news as " 'Tsunami"? ...oh, you mean a tidal wave."

(2) Just because there is an obscure word in the Japanese language (where earthquakes, storms and tidal waves are frequent) hardly makes this ALLEGEDLY 'common' event a normal or even probable occurance in the Indian Ocean.

a) Japan is an entirely different area of the world, where volcanic/tectonic activity is rampant, whereas the Indian Ocean is dull and boring to the point of "dead" geophysically in comparison.

b) Those who wanted us to believe it was a natural disaster literally saturated the media with both the bogus pseudo-scientific terminology and the READY MADE explanation for the event.

c) But no one has shown in any convincing or scientific manner that this ever happened before, or was supposed to happen, or is likely to happen in this area of the world.

(3) Sure there have been plenty of semi-Tropical storms, cyclones, hurricanes, and other natural disasters, many of which caused inadvertant flooding along the shoreline of India and other places vulnerable by location.

But what previous events in recent history coincide with a 100 ft tidal wave travelling thousands of miles and striking thousands of miles of coastline in 30 different countries at the same time?
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kathy



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 728
Location: Surfing The Waves

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The term tsunami, which is often incorrectly referred to as a tidal wave, was officially adopted for general use in 1963 during an international scientific conference. It is a Japanese word represented by two characters: "tsu" which means harbor and "nami" which means wave.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec04/tsunami_12-30.html


Quote:
# Krakatau has erupted repeatedly throughout history, but its place in the record books is due to the series of massive explosions which took place on 26 and 27 August 1883.

# This 1883 eruption generated the loudest sound ever reported in history. It was heard as far away as Perth in Australia (around 1,930 miles away) and the island of Rodrigues near Mauritius - a whopping 3,000 miles from Krakatoa!

# When the volcano erupted, the explosion fired up hot ash 50 miles into the air. The force was about 13,000 times more powerful than the bomb that devastated Hiroshima in 1945.

# Official records held that 165 villages and towns surrounding Krakatoa were destroyed and 132 more were seriously damaged. Nearly 36,500 people died, and many thousands injured, mostly due to the vast tsunamis which occurred following the explosion.

# These tsunamis reached a height of up to 140 feet. Eyewitness accounts from the colonial Dutch and the native population testify to the monstrous heights of the waves.

# Atmospheric shockwaves from the explosions reverberated around the world seven times and were detectable for five days. The sky turned dark and remained so for days afterwards, while waves from the tsunamis were recorded as far away as the English Channel.

# In the year following the eruption, average global temperatures fell by 1.2 degrees Celsius. Weather patterns were sent into chaos and there was a global increase in levels of sulphuric acid in the atmosphere. Earth’s temperatures did not return to normal for five years.
http://uktv.co.uk/documentary/item/aid/580982/multipageid/580990


Quote:
Early in the morning of May 20, 1883, the captain of the German warship Elizabeth reported seeing an ~11-km-high cloud of ash and dust rising above the uninhabited island of Krakatau, thus documenting the first eruption from this Indonesian island in at least two centures. Over the ensuing two months, crews on commercial vessels and sightseers on charted ships would experience similar spectacles, all of which were associated with explosive noises and churning clouds of black to incandescent ash and pumice. From a distance, the largest of these natural fanfares impressed the local inhabitants on the coastal plains of Java and Sumatra, creating a near-festive environment. Little did they realize, however, that these awe-inspiring displays were only a prelude to one of the largest eruptions in historic times. A series of cataclysmic explosions began at mid-day on August 26, and ended on August 27 with a stupendous paroxysmal eruption. On this day, the northern two-thirds of the island collapsed beneath the sea, generating a series of devasting pyroclastic flows and immense tsunamis that ravaged adjacent coastlines. The events that began on August 26 would mark the last 24 hours on earth for over 36,000 people, and the destruction of hundreds of coastal villages and towns.

The cataclysmic blasts of August 27 generated mountainous tsunamis, up to 40 m tall, that ravaged coastlines across the Sunda Straits. Many of the closest islands were completely submerged. After first being overwhelmed by massive pyroclastic flows (see below), Sebesi Island northeast of Krakatau, was innudated by mammoth sea waves. These tsunami stripped away all vegetation, washed ~3000 people out to sea, and destroyed all signs of human occupation. Although located at seemingly safe distance, 80 km east of the Sunda Straits, the low-lying Thousand Islands were buried by at least 2 m of seawater and their inhabitants had to save themselves by climbing trees.

Eyewitness accounts of the massive waves came from passengers of the Loudon, who survived the barrage only through the heroic efforts of its Captain Lindemann. The ship was anchored in Lampong Bay, near the village of Telok Betong when the first of several waves arrived on Monday morning:

"Suddenly we saw a gigantic wave of prodigious height advancing toward the seashore with considerable speed. Immediately, the crew . . .managed to set sail in face of the imminent danger; the ship had just enough time to meet with the wave from the front. The ship met the wave head on and the Loudon was lifted up with a dizzying rapidity and made a formidable leap... The ship rode at a high angle over the crest of the wave and down the other side. The wave continued on its journey toward land, and the benumbed crew watched as the sea in a single sweeping motion consumed the town. There, where an instant before had lain the town of Telok Betong, nothing remained but the open sea."


Other ships in Lampong Bay were not as lucky. The wave lifted the steamship Berouw up the Koeripan River valley, depositing the ship over a mile inland, thirty feet above sealevel, killing all 28 of its crew members.

One of the most harrowing accounts was that of a Javanese field hand working in paddy fields located 8 km inland on Java, near the town of Merak. The following is his account of events at ~10:30 a.m., Monday morning:

" . . .all of a sudden there came a great noise. We . . .saw a great black thing, a long way off, coming towards us. It was very high and very strong, and we soon saw that it was water. Trees and houses were washed away . . .The people began to . . . run for their lives. Not far off was some steep sloping ground. We all ran towards it and tried to climb up out of the way of the water. The wave was too quick for most of them, and many were drowned almost at my side. . . . There was a general rush to climb up in one particular place. This caused a great block, and many of them got wedged together and could not move. Then they struggled and fought, screaming and crying out all the time. Those below tried to make those above them move on again by biting their heels. A great struggle took place for a few moments, but . . . one after another, they were washed down and carried far away by the rushing waters. You can see the marks on the hill side where the fight for life took place. Some . . . dragged others down with them. They would not let go their hold, nor could those above them release themselves from this death-grip." -- From A. Scarth, 1999


Nobody knows how many people were washed out to sea by these enormous waves. For months after the eruption, the Sunda Straits where congested with thick pumice banks, often containing fifty or more corpses. The official number of dead was calculated by Dutch authorities at 36,417, 90 percent of which were killed by the tsunamis. Two weeks after the disaster, one traveler describes his observations where the village of Tjaringin once stood:

"Thousands of corpses of human beings and also carcasses of animals still await burial, and make their presence apparent by the indescribable stench. They lie in knots and entangled masses impossible to unravel, and often jammed along with coconut stems among all that had served these thousands as dwellings, furniture, farming implements, and adornments for houses and compounds."
-- From Zeilinga de Boer and Sanders, 2002
http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/Krakatau.html


Quote:
Earthquake and Tsunami of 28 November 1945 in Southern Pakistan
On 28 November 1945, a great earthquake, off Pakistan's Makran Coast (Balochistan) generated a destructive tsunami in the Northern Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean. More than 4,000 people were killed along the Makran Coast of Pakistan by both the earthquake and the tsunami.

Also, the tsunami was responsible for loss of life and great destruction along the coasts of Iran, Oman and western India (and possibly elsewhere).
http://www.drgeorgepc.com/Tsunami1945Pakistan.html


I had not heard the word tsunami before December 2004, or I had never paid much attention to it, but I sure as hell know the word now


Last edited by kathy on Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LonePunman



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... But while we're on the subject of logical self-contradictions and implausible superimpositions of mutually exclusive "worlds",

I'd like to ask how a person can on the one hand claim that

(A) ordinary seismologists all over the world would have no problem at all distinguishing a natural tectonic event from one that was (accidentally or deliberately) triggered by a nuclear test

and yet at the same time claim that

(B) it is implausible for the same scientists to reasonably identify and/or predict potential seismic events and use this knowledge to cause timed disasters by accelerating or triggering them.


I'm not picking on Fintan in particular or anyone else here, but his posts provide a good example of this kind of false and self-defeating logic:



(A): (ASSUMING SEISMOLOGISTS CAN I.D. COVERT H-BOMBS)

Quote:
And it would be good if....

You could explain away how all the seismic recording stations
around the world couldn't tell the difference between the
seismic signature of an ocean-floor nuke and a real
deep bedrock earthquake.....

'Cos they could ya know.

Tell the difference, I mean.

Unless they "were all in on it."



I for one, as a physicist would love to hear how Fintan proposes that seismologists would actually go about I.D.ing the fingerprint of a nuclear charge of ANY size going off in another country, through seismic waves and tremours picked up in other parts of the world, especially when 'masked' by the seismic event they were meant to trigger in the first place.




(B): (DOUBTING OUR SEISMOLOGICAL SKILLS RE: EARTHQUAKE PREDICTION ETC.)

Fintan wrote:


[sarcasm:]
And yeah, our seismological knowledge of tectonic plate
positions is such that we can easily tell when a huge
earthquake is imminent and just nudge it along. Piece of cake.

Case solved.
[/sarcasm]



This also seems implausible, since allegedly the entire purpose and science of seismology is based upon concentrated efforts to identify and PREDICT EARTHQUAKES and other seismic events.

Even though we are apparently not at the state of the art where we can reliably and accurately predict ALL earthquakes, (although who knows what the military industrial complex has for tech), it can hardly be denied that we are at least able to I.D. obvious faultlines, active zones, and the frequency/probability of many kinds of seismic events.

Warning agencies seem to do as good a job at least as weather forecasters, having a high probability of accuracy as we approach the time of a potential event.

So why is it implausible that someone (in a military/covert-op position) wouldn't at least consider coordinating or retiming upcoming events to fit more conveniently with a political or military agenda? Especially since they were interested in doing so as early as 1935.
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kathy



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
South Asian Tsunamis (Pronounced: Sue-Naa-Me)
See the Amateur Seismic Network
http://asc-india.org/menu/waves.htm

The infamous offspring of undersea earthquakes, tsunamis conjour images of towering waves such as those depicted in this Japanese wood cut, whose name. when translated means "In the hollow of the Great Wave off the coast of Kanagawa". Part of a set of 36 views of Mount Fuji, renowned Edo-era painter, Katsushika Hokusai depicts a mammoth wave that dwarfs Fujiyama in the back. Though towering waves rarely accompany

tsunamis, they are an immediate secondary threat to coastal and low-lying communities following offshore or coastal earthquakes. The word "Tsunami" is Japanese for "Harbour Wave". They are often wrongly called "Tidal Waves" and have nothing to do with tides. Most are generated by shallow earthquakes in the sea or by temblors near the coast that can set off underwater landslides. Volcanic eruptions scan also cause tsunamis
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LonePunman



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now lets look more closely at the info you just posted about Krakatau and Tsunamis.


Quote:
Krakatau has erupted repeatedly throughout history, but its place in the record books is due to the series of massive explosions which took place on 26 and 27 August 1883.


So we have no trouble admitting that this particular WORLD SHAKING event (or quick series) generated Tsunamis.

But what exactly did it take? A mere volcanic eruption, or the slipping of a tectonic plate? No. By the symptoms alone, it is obvious that this was a UNIQUE and unusual event of GARGANTUAN proportions:

Quote:
... the loudest sound ever reported in history.


Quote:
...fired up hot ash 50 miles into the air.


Quote:
...The force was about 13,000 times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb.


Perhaps it was even some kind of asteroid striking the earth. Who knows?

In 1883 it would be reasonable to assume that this event was not manmade, unless it was aliens from space, with little clear motive at the moment.

So what happened in 2004? where the hell is the expected and necessary giant explosion?

Where was the 50 mile high smoke stack from an eruption?

Where was the evidence of devastation amounting to 10-20,000 atom bombs?

Inevitably, since NO ONE WAS EXPECTING one, nobody was watching.

And no smoke plume of the required size was seen afterward either.

The main point is, if this is the required event explaining the TSUNAMIs, Where the hell is the required evidence that the event took place?

That is my first caveat.

-----------------------------------------
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LonePunman



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Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

caveat #2:

If this particular Eruption/ Tsunami catastrophe (1883) only took the force of 13,000 A-bombs, its hardly out of range for modern H-bombs.

Quote:
"...some modern H-bombs are over 1000 times as powerful as the A-bomb that destroyed most of Hiroshima..."
http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/s73p912.htm
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LonePunman



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

caveat #3:

If Krakatau has been identified as a 'hot site' capable of generating disasters for nearly 100 years, why wouldn't it be the perfect target of choice for an artificial disaster, or an 'assisted' one?

Duh.

If you let your H-bombs off there, where nobody is actually monitoring for covert ops, but rather just performing 'remote' observation, who's gonna suspect? and if they did, who can ever prove it?

Krakatau provides the handy, reusable "explanation" for your tsunami disaster, and in fact for all FUTURE disasters, and "inside jobs".

Why change your plan if it works the first time, and will work over and over again?

Thus we can expect that if such covert ops exist, THEY WILL BE REPEATED.
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LonePunman



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caveat #4:


The "Tsunami" (2004) was conveniently NOT actually anywhere near Krakatau. It was apparently centered on the ocean floor hundreds of miles away, a convenient location for a covert H-bomb experiment.

Quote:

In the recorded history of tsunamis, this was the BIGGEST TSUNAMI... ever...

The 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami waves were far reaching.
Photo Credit: Vasily V. Titov, Associate Director,
Tsunami Inundation Mapping Efforts (TIME),
NOAA/PMEL - UW/JISAO, USA.

Biggest Tsunami Countdown #1:
The 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake

On the morning after Christmas, a 9.15 magnitude undersea earthquake triggered a series of events that would forever change the way we looked at the water. Within hours of the earthquake, the coasts of Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, and other countries, were deluged with waves, some as high as 49 feet. Source: Australia Bureau of Meteorology & Wikipedia



Any idiot can see by this description that this event has probably never happened before, in maybe a million years.

What would happen if a nuclear sub detonated a few dozen 20 megaton bombs near the ocean floor? Probably something JUST LIKE THIS.
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