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Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone noticed how rapidly Mrs. Clintoon is turning ugly! She seems to be getting uglier with every photo. She is nasty. How would you like to be her pantyhose? I think I hate her.
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Damian Flynn

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering when Obama would deliberately self implode. I thought that his crazy preacher friend might do it a few weeks ago. It'll be fun to see how this develops.
It'll be good to see the end of Obama. I can't stand listening to his speeches. He just talks and talks and talks and says nothing.
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Rick Dagless

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:11 am    Post subject: Obama slings it right back... Reply with quote

...with style:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama slings it right back... with style.

Yeah... unfortunately for him, his campaign geniuses picked Steelton, PA - the predominently Black, semi-ghetto area near Harrisburg.

Listen to this speech, it sounds like a Baptist church rally, with all the "Yeah!" 's and "Right on!" 's punctuating his speech every 5 seconds. I think I even heard a "Hallelujiah!" and a "Testify!" in there. Laughing

So, first he offends primarily White religious people in small coal cracker towns, and now he's looking as Southern Black as possible. Now he's really primed to win Pennsylvania. Maybe they could have had him eating grits with a big bottle of Aunt Jemima pancake syrup up on the podium too.

If I didn't know better, I'd think some WASP dillweed like Zbigniew Bzrezinski is helping him shoot himself in the foot.


"No matter what happens, ever... there's ALWAYS at least one reason. And the top reason is ALWAYS money."
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uhhh...you see what I meant was...

"What I was saying is that when economic hardship hits in these communities, what people have is they've got family, they've got their faith, they've got the traditions that have been passed onto them from generation to generation," Obama said at the forum, which was televised on CNN. "Those aren't bad things. That's what they have left."

and mad Obama has arrived...

"now that cracker bitch is runnin' around like she's Annie Oakley" (pretty good one-liner actually)

"She is running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsmen, how she values the Second Amendment. She's talking like she's Annie Oakley," Obama said.

angry and elitist and black doesn't taste very good all mixed together. America went black for a while, but I think now they are ready for the MAN in black

(is Al set? Cue the lights. His harness is tight? Don't want to drop his holiness from the rafters. Nice and easy now. Cue the music. Makeup...quickly. OK gently now...gently...)

source: http://news.aol.com/elections/story/_a/angry-obama-lashes-out-at-clinton/20080414063809990001?icid=100214839x2500269447x2500105654

"Man is the only creature who refuses to be what he is"- Albert Camus

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Blair is Black!

Obama is a black Tony Bliar.

Same slick oratorical style.....
Same 'progressive' political stance.....
Same globalist impetus and aims.....
Same 'Christianity' worn as a political cloak.....

Think how good a job Tony did for the NWO in the U.K.
Obama could do the same for them in the USA.

But he better be careful about the guns part of his "cling to guns and religion."

It's political dynamite and Obama is sitting right on the explosives.
The code words are 'Joyce Foundation', but here's a little intro first:

On gun control, Obama changed direction since 1996, when he called for
a ban on all handgun possession and sales in Illinois

In 2004, on another questionnaire, he backed off, saying a ban is "not
politically practicable....."

...Many of the old views came from answers he gave to a list of questions
submitted to him in 1996 by an Illinois good-government group known as
the IVI-IPO.

Aides claim Obama did not fill out the questionnaire, and instead it was
handled by a staffer who misrepresented his views on gun control, the
death penalty and more......

A spokesman for the Illinois group said the excuse is ridiculous because
they interviewed him in person.

[Obama] went from calling the anti-terrorism Patriot Act a "shoddy and
dangerous" law to voting to continue an updated version of the law in

So there's Obama's real stand on the guns issue, before the airbrushing.
And it's confirmed by his long association with the Joyce Foundation.
He was a board member in the late nineties and was even a shoo-in
to be CEO for the Foundation before deciding for politics instead.

Here's the skinny on the Joyce Foundation:

Since 2003, the Joyce Foundation has paid [b]grants totaling over $12 million
to gun control organizations. The largest single grantee has been the
Violence Policy Center, which received $4,154,970 between 1996 and
2006, and calls for an outright ban on handguns, semi-automatic and
other firearms, and substantial restrictions on gun owners.

Gun rights groups including the National Rifle Association call the Joyce
Foundation an activist foundation whose "shadowy web of huge donations"
leads "straight to puppet strings that control the agenda of gun ban

Joyce Foundation execs have donated around $10,000 to Obama in 2008, by the way.

This chart explains how Joyce Foundation's tentacles of gun control are
found all over academia, police, civil groups, activists and local groups:


For us independent thinkers, when we consider again Obama's high-level
participation in the Joyce Foundation, it sheds light on ithe quality of
his NWO credentials.

I wonder if they will ever hit Obama with the Joyce Foundation issue?

Not very likely, I don't think.
Too close to core agenda material. Laughing

Meanwhile, how is 'SmalTownGate' playing in the sticks of Pennsylvania?

Here's a poll from Pennsylvania which canvassed opinion from
600 telephone interviews among Democratic primary voters during
April 11-13 as the "guns and religion" gaffe was breaking.

See how Hillary was tanking in early April, until Obama injected her
with a 12% gain in voter sentiment to reenergize her campaign:


Clinton leads Obama 48% to 44% among men,
Clinton leads Obama 64% to 31% among women.
Clinton leads Obama 64% to 29% among white voters.

Obama leads 79% to 18% among African Americans (14% of voters).

10% of all likely Democratic primary voters say they would never vote
for Hillary Clinton in the primary and 24% of likely Democratic primary
voters say they would never vote for Obama in the primary.

23% of likely Democratic primary voters say that excessive exposure
to Obama's advertising is causing them to support Clinton.


Margin of Error: 4 percentage points

Some interesting nuggets in the figures above. Obama is outspending
Clinton 3 to 1 on TV in Pennsylvania and it's clearly pi**ing people off.

Also note Obama 24% negative rating among Democrats compared to
Hillary's 10% negative.

Obama had dodged the 'guns and religion' side of his gaffe in the first 48
hours, so I expect that the figures for Obama have worsened as the full
import of his comments sank in.

Following on from 'PastorGate', this 'SmallTownGate' incident has cracked
Obama's teflon and he's now slogging toe to toe at the usual political level.

He's going to burn in Pennsylvania and Clinton will return to the issue
of how the GOP would bury Obama as a candidate. She'll say that
superdelegates have a responsibility to safeguard a Dem victory.

To make things worse, Obama is facing two political opponents who
will be relentlessly hammering away at exactly the same message.

That kind of repeat, repeat drives ideas into voters minds.

So much that when they Google their own brains for Obama, the words
'elitist' and 'out of touch' will top their associative search results.

This is going to run and run.

Here's McCain on Day 4 of 'SmallTownGate'
happily articulating his new campaign message:

Obama defends "bitter" remarks; McCain attacks

by Caren Bohan

PITTSBURGH, April 14 (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential
candidate Barack Obama spent a fourth day on Monday defending himself
for calling people in small towns with economic blight "bitter" in a
controversy that rival Hillary Clinton is trying to use for a comeback.

Republican John McCain sought political gain from the flap, saying it is the
people from small towns in America who survived the Great Depression,
fought in World War Two, built a strong postwar economy and are the
"heart and soul of this country........

Both Democrat Clinton and McCain have pounced on the remarks to
charge that Obama is elitist and out of touch
with the concerns of

For Clinton, Obama's remarks have been a gift she needed badly to try to
revive her struggling bid to overtake Obama's lead in the state-by-state
contest for the Democratic nomination, with key tests coming in
Pennsylvania on April 22 and Indiana and North Carolina on May 6.......

Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was secretly hoping he'd go out more like Black Howard Dean


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


According to Dacid Coleman Obama is merely "misunderstood".

I Was There: What Obama Really Said About Pennsylvania

Last Sunday evening I attended the San Francisco fundraiser that has been the center of recent political jousting. The next day, when asked about the talk Obama delivered, I too commented about his answer to a question he was asked about Pennsylvania. Over the past week, though, I have had a Rashomon-like experience concerning those remarks.

Clinton, McCain, and media pundits have parsed a blogger's audio tape of Obama's remarks and criticized a sentence or two characterizing some parts of Pennsylvania and the attitudes of some Pennsylvanians. In context and in person, Senator Obama's remarks about Pennsylvania voters left an impression diametrically opposed to that being trumpeted by his competitor's campaigns.

At the end of Obama's remarks standing between two rooms of guests -- the fourth appearance in California after traveling earlier in the day from Montana -- a questioner asked, "some of us are going to Pennsylvania to campaign for you. What should we be telling the voters we encounter?"

Obama's response to the questioner was that there are many, many different sections in Pennsylvania comprised of a range of racial, geographic, class, and economic groupings from Appalachia to Philadelphia. So there was not one thing to say to such diverse constituencies in Pennsylvania. But having said that, Obama went on say that his campaign staff in Pennsylvania could provide the questioner (an imminent Pennsylvania volunteer) with all the talking points he needed. But Obama cautioned that such talking points were really not what should be stressed with Pennsylvania voters.

Instead he urged the volunteer to tell Pennsylvania voters he encountered that Obama's campaign is about something more than programs and talking points. It was at this point that Obama began to talk about addressing the bitter feelings that many in some rural communities in Pennsylvania have about being brushed aside in the wake of the global economy. Senator Obama appeared to theorize, perhaps improvidently given the coverage this week, that some of the people in those communities take refuge in political concerns about guns, religion and immigration. But what has not so far been reported is that those statements preceded and were joined with additional observations that black youth in urban areas are told they are no longer "relevant" in the global economy and, feeling marginalized, they engage in destructive behavior. Unlike the week's commentators who have seized upon the remarks about "bitter feelings" in some depressed communities in Pennsylvania, I gleaned a different meaning from the entire answer.

First, I noted immediately how dismissive his answer had been about "talking points" and ten point programs and how he used the question to urge the future volunteer to put forward a larger message central to his campaign. That pivot, I thought, was remarkable and unique. Rather than his seizing the opportunity to recite stump-worn talking points at that time to the audience -- as I believe Senator Clinton, Senator McCain and most other more conventional (or more disciplined) politicians at such an appearance might do -- Senator Obama took a different political course in that moment, one that symbolizes important differences about his candidacy.

The response that followed sounded unscripted, in the moment, as if he were really trying to answer a question with intelligent conversation that explained more about what was going on in the Pennsylvania communities than what was germane to his political agenda. I had never heard him or any politician ever give such insightful, analytical responses. The statements were neither didactic nor contrived to convince. They were simply hypotheses (not unlike the kind made by de Tocqueville three centuries ago ) offered by an observer familiar with American communities. And that kind of thoughtfulness was quite unexpected in the middle of a political event. In my view, the way he answered the question was more important than the sociological accuracy or the cause and effect hypotheses contained in the answer. It was a moment of authenticity demonstrating informed intelligence, and the speaker's desire to have the audience join him in a deeper understanding of American politics.

There has been little or no reaction to the part of the answer that was addressed to the hopelessness of inner city youth who have been rendered "irrelevant" to the global economy. No one has seized upon those words as "talking down" to the inner city youth whose plight he was addressing. If extracted from an audio tape HuffPost Blogger Fowler, those remarks could (and may yet) be taken out of context as "Obama excuses alienation and violence by urban youth." But in context, Senator Obama's response sounded like empathetic conclusions and opinions of a keen observer: more like Margaret Mead than Machiavelli.

As the week's firestorm evolved over these remarks at which I was an accidental observer, I have reflected upon the regrettable irony that has emerged from Senator Obama's response to a friendly question: no good effort at intelligent analysis, candor -- and what I heard as an attempt to convey a profound understanding of both what people feel and why they feel it - goes unpunished. Such insights by a political candidate might otherwise be valued. In a national campaign subject to opposition research, his analytical musing has instead created an immense amount of political flak.

Now and "in this time," to invoke one of the candidate's favorite riffs, such observations and remarks shared among supporters are just a push of a record button on a tape recorder away from being spread across the internet to be dissected by political nabobs. What struck me immediately after the fundraiser as so refreshing turned out to be a moment Senator Obama is forced to regret. Today we marvel at de Tocqueville insights about American communities. Apparently, such commentary is valued as long as it is three centuries old and doesn't come from the mouth of a contemporary observer who might be elected president.

So much for the political ironies. But there is one more personal observation that was missed.

I happened to be on the balcony when Senator Obama's vehicles arrived and he emerged from the Secret Service SUV. Obama shouted the friendly greeting "How are you guys up there doing?" to the group of us looking down from the balcony and then said, "You have to excuse me, I need to call my kids in Chicago now." All of us stood and watched the leading candidate for the Democratic party nomination for president have a short conversation with his kids before he entered a fundraiser to make his remarks.

No tape of that conversation has emerged as yet. Who knows how casual remarks of a father to his children or his wife on a cell phone could be spun to support the argument that as a father speaking to his kids two time zones away before they go to bed, his comments sounded as if he "looked down" upon them. Given his relative height and the age of his kids, he probably does. But that would be precisely as relevant to his capacity to unite and lead this country as were the remarks at the fundraiser that have been so deconstructed over this past week.

The damage may already be done. Obama broke the rules, just try not to say anything offensive and carry some brush around.

The "rural vote" can always be used as an excuse for a win.


Yellowstone County Commissioner Bill Kennedy Backs Hillary Clinton for President
Prominent Montana leader cites Obama's out-of-touch comments about rural America

BILLINGS, MT - Today, Hillary Clinton received the endorsement of another prominent Montana leader, Yellowstone County Commissioner Bill Kennedy.

"I am honored to have Bill Kennedy in my corner," said Sen. Clinton. "His years spent making Billings and rural Montana a better place to live are commendable. The people of Montana need a plan they can count on, results that can rely on, and a champion they can depend on. I will be that President for them."

"Of the three remaining presidential candidates, it is clear to me that Sen. Clinton best understands the issues facing Yellowstone County, Montana, and rural America," said Kennedy. "She is a leader on providing real solutions for our healthcare system and a long-time advocate for SCHIP which insures thousands of Montana kids. She fought alongside Senator Max Baucus to stop the misguided effort to privatize social security and protect our seniors."

Kennedy said Sen. Obama's remarks last week at a San Francisco fundraiser solidified his support for Sen. Clinton. Speaking about rural voters, Obama told a group of California donors " it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

"In Montana; going to church or going hunting is part of our heritage, not something we 'cling to' out of bitterness or frustration,"
Kennedy said. "Sen. Obama showed a real disconnect with rural Montana. It might work to look down on us from San Francisco, but it won't sell when he comes back to Montana."

Kennedy is past President of the Montana Association of Counties and Chairman of the National Association of Counties Rural Action Caucus. Kennedy has served on the Yellowstone County Commission since 1993, spending much of his time and energy on improving healthcare and infrastructure, improving Yellowstone County's economy and keeping the promise to Montana veterans.

Bill Kennedy was born and raised in Billings; He taught 7th and 8th grades in Colstrip and returned to Billings to teach 7th and 8th grade at the Billings Catholic Schools, he also ran a Family Literacy program for School District 2 in Billings. He is the past parish administrator of St. Thomas Church in Billings.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From crooksandliars.com

C&Ler Gion tipped us off to this funny bit over at DailyKos: FOXNews sent out a producer to get reactions from small town Pennsylvanians on Barack Obamas comments re: the challenges of reaching out to voters who are embittered by the economic situation and distrustful of politicians.

If FOXNews hoped to find some highly offended voters, they were very

see videos here:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite all, the Wall St. Journal
is hanging in there for Obama:

While the comments may not cost him the Democratic nomination,
they could undermine his chances in the general election.

That's understating the damage by a country mile.

Try laughing this off. Back at the beginning of April, Obama was closing
fast on Clinton and the demise of her candidacy was loking imminent.

Obama gaining on Clinton in Pennsylvania: poll

Wed Apr 9, 2008 - WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential
contender Hillary Clinton leads Barack Obama by 6 points among likely
Pennsylvania Democratic primary voters but he is chipping away at her
lead, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released on Tuesday.

Then 'SmallTownGate' hit the voters. Now the ARG Poll I posted about
earlier is making the headlines:

New poll shows Barack Obama tanking in Pennsylvania

by Don Frederick - April 14, 2008

The first fresh poll results from Pennsylvania are in since Barack
Obama's "bitter" comments about people in small towns exploded as a
news story, and the findings could hardly be worse for the Democratic
presidential contender.

Intriguingly, the man in charge of the survey said interviews with voters
indicate Obama's tumble in the state has more to do with what the
candidate himself has said were ill-chosen words than anything else.

The new poll by American Research Group -- conducted Friday, Saturday
and Sunday -- gave Clinton 57% and Obama 37% (based on interviews
with 600 Democrats, the survey has an error margin of plus-or-minus 4
percentage points). The 20-point margin is all the more dramatic
because, just the week before, an ARG poll found the pair in a flat-out
tie in Pennsylvania, each with 45%.

The previous findings had put the race closer than any others. And
perhaps the new one exaggerates the bounce Clinton has gotten from
the storm over Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fund-raiser. Other
pollsters are in the field in Pennsylvania, and we eagerly await their
results (an L.A. Times/Bloomberg poll of Democrats in the Keystone State
-- as well as in North Carolina and Indiana -- will be ready mid-week).

Regardless, the New Hamphire-based ARG poll, may have identified a
tactical worry for the Obama camp above and beyond the current
controversy. Dick Bennett, head of the poll, told us today that even
before the furor erupted, it appeared many Pennsylvania Democrats
began to turn against Obama because they are simply sick and tired of
seeing and hearing his ads.

Much as campaign consultants would be loath to agree, Bennett opined
that a candidate "can spend too much money" on an ad campaign, and
the saturation of Obama spots in Pennsylvania appear to be a classic
example of "overkill" that ultimately does harm.

Bennett also reported that some of the Pennsylvanians who his company
contacted went on to complain about the substance of the ubiquitous
Obama ads. They are "about him, not voters or what their concerns are,"
Bennett said. And Obama's comment on attitudes in small towns served
to reinforce that feeling.


But again the Wall St. Journal isn't happy with those Obama numbers.
Complaining (with some justification) that the polling firm has a record
of some variability in it's polling predictions.

Is Clinton’s Pennsylvania Lead Really 20 Points?

April 14, 2008, 3:56 pm

A new survey showing Sen. Hillary Clinton leading Sen. Barack Obama
by 20 percentage points in Pennsylvania comes from a polling firm with a
shaky track record this election season.

But there are reasons to question ARG polling numbers. In a polling
report card of 2008 primary accuracy issued by a rival survey company,
ARG ranked in the bottom half of more than three dozen polling firms,
among 2008 primaries through late February. It also ranked near the
bottom in another ranking of pollster accuracy at fivethirtyeight.com, a
Web site that tracks the Electoral College.

Anyone smell a rat? Did ARG cook the poll for Hillary? Stranger things
have already happened with polls (See 2004 Zogby Mitofsky) so I wouldn't
be surprised if further imminent polls of Pennsylvania opinion show a
smaller bounce for Clinton. But that news may be too late to change
impressions of an Obama implosion.

And Obama can hardly spend his way out of trouble. There are also
reports that Texans too are heartily sick of the Obama Adverts:

Too many Obama ads?

Christina Bellantoni - Washington Times - April 14, 2008

Some voters were complaining in Texas that Sen. Barack Obama was saturating the airwaves with commercials. Even supporters grumbled they couldn't click through the channels each night without seeing a flood of his ads.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has repeatedly said her rival is outspending her, and she's using his ad spending in Pennsylvania to raise money on her Web site.....


It is very annoying hearing the ad all the time. Once twice... fine, I get
the message. It was so saturated in Texas that I had to turn off the radio.

Posted by Kim | April 14, 2008 12:00 PM

Speaking as one of those allegedly "bitter" Pennsylvanians, I have to say
that Obama's two-faced nature sickens me. He has one message for his
little buddies in San Francisco, and a totally different message that he
thinks Pennsylvanians are stupid enough to believe. He's shown himself to
be just another rich guy looking down on people who actually have to
WORK for a living!

This man truly will say or do anything to get elected.

And who is he to "mock" Hillary Clinton for having a shot and a beer?
Wasn't he the idiot who was slurping up beer while failing at bowling last
week? What, that's not "pandering"? The slobbering media even went out
of their way to report on what brand of beer he was drinking!

I wish he would just go away. He is a turnoff, his two faces are a turnoff,
his ads are a turnoff, and his supporters are so nasty that they make me
want to puke. Sure, insulting my preferred candidate and calling her
names REALLY makes me want to vote for your guy...NOT!

Nobama. Never.

Posted by slavicdiva | April 14, 2008 12:18 PM

Wow. I thought it was going to take the GOP to expose the hidden liberal,
elitist, socialist, racist side of Barack Obama and his REAL agenda, but he
did it FOR us. Actually, the VERY liberal Huffington Post did it for us. lol
Today is a GREAT day. Obama is finished. Hillary is finished.

Posted by LiberalismIsAMentalDisorder | April 14, 2008 12:24 PM

All the talk about the Hillary $$ machine? Sen Obama is raising money
from all kinds of sources, including bundling from oil-Real Estate-fortune
500 big wigs. Being in Iowa we got the brunt of the ads. And I agree that
Sen Obama was on the air all the time. And when he looses Pennslyvania
on the 22nd, will he still be able to crank out the big bucks? After Penn,
things get tough. Hillary is way ahead in West Virginia and Kentucky, has
a lead in Indiana, and is running very close in North Carolina and Oregon.
Add to that a very possible Edwards endorsement and Sen Clinton is the
front runner. Plus she has won all the big-key states and is more
prepared to take on the GOP-Karl Rove-Swift boat mud slinging machine.
Hillary can win the whitehouse!!!!

Posted by David in Iowa | April 14, 2008 12:29 PM

Yes Obabma has rich contributors:

Top Industries:
Lawyers/Law Firms: $11,246,596
Retired: $6,988,363
Misc Business: $6,256,928
Securities & Investment: $6,026,529
Education: $3,880,197

Top Contributors:
Goldman Sachs: $474,428
UBS AG $298,180
JP Morgan Chase & Co: $282,387
Lehman Brothers: $274,147
National Amusements Inc: $265,750

Source: Center For Responsible Government -- data through
Jan. 31. For more information go to OpenSecrets.Org.

Posted by n2liberty | April 14, 2008 12:36 PM


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This Clinton and Obama dog 'n pony show is a win-win for the
Dem establishment machine. It's being used to mobilize people
on both sides of the (ahem) "batttle."

Anyway, the Huffington Post is goinmg apoplectic over the hit job
on Obama by ABC news hosts at the debate......

ABC Hosts Heckled After Debate: "The Crowd Is Turning On Me"

The Huffington Post | April 16, 2008

Reflecting what seemed to be the main consensus of the night - that ABC
botched this debate, big time - Charlie Gibson tells the crowd there will be
one more, superfluous commercial break of the night and is subsequently

"OH..." he declares, hands raised in defense. "The crowd is turning on
me, the crowd is turning on me."



Debate moderators force Obama on defensive

Suzanne Goldenberg in Philadelphia, Thursday April 17 2008

Barack Obama was forced on the defensive about his core beliefs in a debate with Hillary Clinton that touched on his patriotism, his associations in Chicago, and his attitudes towards working class voters.

The debate was the 21st such encounter between Clinton and Obama - and the last time the two Democrats will share a stage before the Pennsylvania primary next Tuesday.

But any sense of ennui vanished as Obama faced sustained questioning from the debate moderators about his associations in Chicago - most notably the pastor of his church, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, and a former member of the 60s radical group, the Weather Underground, William Ayers.

The Democratic frontrunner was also asked to respond to a videotaped question from a woman asking whether he believed in the American flag because of his refusal to wear a lapel pin. Obama said it was a "manufactured issue".

Some comments from ABC News site visitors:

...This is AWFUL. Thank goodness for Jon Stewart and Comedy Central. He does a better job of interviewing and asking relevant questions of his guests in 5 minutes than these 2 yahoos have in more than an hour. ABC should be ashamed. George should be ashamed. Charlie should be ashamed. This isn't a debate. This is a hit job.

...Asinine questions - abysmal debate. Fire these silly moderators NOW. They insult the intelligence of the American people.

...I haven't watched ABC "news" in a few years. I see I haven't been missing much! MORE THAN half the debate turned over to Bittergate, Rev Wright, the Weathermen, Tuzla, FLAG LAPEL PINS? Most of the televised debates I've seen this campaign season have been lame, but this one takes the prize. Either you guys are morons or you think that we are. Either way, I'm glad to have seen the last of you. Really, really bad.No winners in this debate, but a definite loser: ABC "NEWS"

...This is the WORST debate I have ever watched. Never in my life have I been more disenchanted with the news media as a whole, especially a news organization such as ABC that I believed to have some sense of purpose to bring substantive information and perspective to the American people. Americans are tired of the snipping between the candidates and the lack of discussion about what each candidate will do to help the country. ABC News should be ashamed for presenting such a failure of a debate.

...Are you kidding me? "We don't have much time left. Let's have a MINUTE to talk about gas?" Charlie and George, you need a crash course on the distinction between "issues" and an "agendas." Hint: The candidates have the former; you have the latter.

...ABC News . . you should be ashamed of this debate. Where did you get these questions?? Where are the ISSUES. We have heard enough about Rev Wright and what Hillary did or didn't do in Bosnia. Let's hear about issues that matter such as the cost of Health Care, the war in Iraq, the Energy Crisi, the Crisis in Our Schools, and THE ECONOMY, STUPID!!

...Geoirge and Charlie= narcissistic elite "journalists" trying to score a rating point, but asking questions that would yield a "F" in middle school journalism. This debate may be used for years in journalism classes, on how to not run a debate. Disney-who owns ABC- get better cartoon characters to run a debate. Elmer Fudd would do much better.

...Has ABC News noticed that your so called "debate" has been universally panned? Charles Gibson is a pandering person more fit for the National Enquirer than a responsible news program. Stephanopoulis is barely better. I am so disappointed but not surprised.


And from the BlogoSphere:

Worst. Debate. Ever.

The blogosphere is unanimous in declaring
ABC's Democratic debate an absolute stinker

April 16, 2008 11:30 PM

Almost a year since the Democrats had their first debate of the presidential campaign, and what did we get in the latest one? A stinker, an absolute car crash - thanks to the host network ABC. It was worse than even those debates last year with 18 candidates on stage, including crazy old Mike Gravel.

It took almost 50 minutes into the debate before the first question came that resembled something to do with policy, rather than warmed-up campaign sniping phrased as questions, and which ran the gamut from banal to inane. At the end of the debate members of the crowd appeared to be booing moderator Charlie Gibson.

The blogosphere was not happy. Not happy at all....

"In perhaps the most embarrassing performance by the media in a major presidential debate in years," began Greg Mitchell on the Huffington Post, "ABC News hosts Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous focused mainly on trivial issues as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama faced off in Philadelphia. They, and their network, should hang their collective heads in shame."

The Philadelphia Inquirer's blogger Daniel Rubin summed up the first half of the debate:
We've revisted bitter. We've gone back to Bosnia. We've dragged Rev. Wright back up onto the podium. We've mis-spent this debate by allowing Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulis to ask questions that skirt what in my mind is what we need to know now.

Over at the Philadelphia Daily News, blogger Will Bunch felt moved to pen an open letter to Gibson and Stephanopoulos, confessing: "I am still angry at what I just witnessed, so angry that it's hard to even type accurately because my hands are shaking". But he recovered to go on:
Indeed, if I were a citizen of one of those nations where America is seeking to "export democracy," and I had watched the debate, I probably would have said, "No thank you." Because that was no way to promote democracy.

Over at the famously rude Wonkette politics blog (now under new ownership) the gloves were off in a live blog by Jim Newell: "Wow, George Stephanopoulos just asked an embarrassing question: 'Does Jeremiah Wright love America as much as you?' Seriously. Because if he doesn't, then he cannot be your Secretary of Black that you obviously intend to make him."

Wonkette readers were quick to make their feelings clear. "Whichever candidate wins, I hope they launch airstrikes against ABC headquarters," wrote one, while another commented: "These are the worst debate questions in the history of this whole stupid campaign." By half-time, another commenter was moved to write: "Holy fuck. I just put my kids to bed and started watching the miserable shit sober. No can do. Bye bye tv assholes!"

Tapped, the American Prospect's blog, was more polite but just as savage: "The questions were fantastically bad, the candidates didn't really manage to rise above them. Overall, pretty sad. You know who lost? America."

Noam Scheiber at The Plank, the New Republic politics blog, thought the debate itself probably helped Clinton rather than Obama:
But, obviously, the real story of the night was the crazy gauntlet of questioning ABC put Obama through. The first half of the debate felt like a 45-minute negative ad, reprising the most chewed over anti-Obama allegations (bittergate, Jeremiah Wright, patriotism) and even some relatively obscure ones (his vague association with former Weatherman radical Bill Ayers).

Chris Bowers at OpenLeft agreed: "Halfway through the debate, not a single question on any policy issue had been asked, it was obvious that this debate was prime-time hit job on Obama."

Oh well. The good news: this may have been the last debate of the Democratic campaign, since the next one in North Carolina hasn't been agreed yet.

Obama on defensive in debate with Clinton

By Paul West | Sun reporter April 17, 2008

Democratic front-runner Barack Obama was repeatedly thrown on the defensive last night in a television debate that spotlighted campaign gaffes, his association with a controversial former pastor and a '60s radical, and his reluctance to wear a flag pin in his lapel.

And the issue of Obama's past gun control stand, I posted about a few
days ago, came up... (but not his profile with the Joyce Foundation.....)

Obama Forgets Writing on Gun Questionnaire

April 17, 2008 12:13 AM

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Talal Al-Khatib Report: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., maintained at Wednesday's ABC News debate in Philadelphia that his handwriting does not appear on a 1996 questionnaire stating support for a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of handguns. The Democratic presidential frontrunner made this claim even though a copy of the original document suggests otherwise.

"No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire, Charlie. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns," said Obama.

The Illinois Democrat made his remarks after ABC News' Charlie Gibson told Obama: "In 1996, your campaign issued a questionnaire, and your writing was on the questionnaire that said you favored a ban on handguns."

The questionnaire, which was filled out for an organization called "Independent Voters of Illinois - Independent Precinct Organizations," appears to have Obama's handwriting on the first page plus a typewritten answer to the gun question on the last page........

Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
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Posts: 949

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is: is whether Obama is taking a dive for Hillary or for the Republicans?

If anyone here thinks a Black man who has a preacher like Malcolm x, and associated with a Weather underground guy, and who many think is a secret Muslim, can be elected president of the United States


Then I have some land to sell you under the Brooklyn Bridge

and dont worry, I could get you a real good loan, with an adjustable intrest rate!

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