FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in 
The dogs of war
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Next Level Forum Index -> General Discussion
  ::  Previous topic :: Next topic  
Author Message
Fintan
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 7475

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject: Zawahri tells Muslims to join Mideast conflict Reply with quote



What a surprise! Al-Qaida has a new video out on the Lebanon situation.
Al-Qaida's No. 2 appeares in a slick production denouncing Israel. And,
hold your breath, the big man --Osama, himself-- is rumored to be set
to appear in another video within days.

Plus, the latest video features a still photo of ol' Mickey 'Mouse-Ears' Atta
and the burning WTC, as a backdrop.

The latest video was al-Zawahri's tenth this year. And Bin Laden has
already appeared in five messages issued in 2006. Al-Qaida clearly needs
its own permanent TV channel.

It could start every day with 'Good Morning Jihadists', where Zawahri chats
to guests in studio about AK-47s and how to cook a healthy breakfast
while hiding in a cave. Maybe Dan Rather might do a comeback as a host
of an evening news show.

Seriously hough, the production quality of these latest al-Qaida videos is
up to network TV standards. Where are they coming from?

Well MSNBC says:
Quote:
according to IntelCenter, a U.S.-based independent group that provides
counterterrorism information to the U.S. government and media.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14054482

and ABCNews Blog reports:
Quote:
A new Osama bin Laden message from al Qaeda’s as-Sahab Institute for Media Production is to be released soon, according to IntelCenter, a private contractor providing counterterrorism support work to the intelligence community.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/07/websites_saying.html

Back in June, on the release of a previous video, ABC said:
Quote:
....reported by the SITE Institute and the IntelCenter, two U.S.-based
independent groups
that provide counter-terrorism information to the
U.S. government and media.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2141810


Here's a screenshot of Virginia-based, IntelCenter's homepage:



http://www.intelcenter.com/

But it isn't just Al-Qaida which has morphed into a slick video production
and communications entity. Abu Musab Zarqawi underwent a similar
transformation in 2004-2005, as the Wash. Post reported last year:

Quote:
On June 29, the new release hit the Internet. "All Religion Will Be
for Allah" is 46 minutes of live-action war in Iraq, a slickly produced video
with professional-quality graphics and the feel of a blood-and-guts annual
report.... [with] a specially designed Web page, with dozens of links to
the video, so users could choose which version to download. There were
large-file editions that consumed 150 megabytes for viewers with high-
speed Internet and a scaled-down four-megabyte version for those
limited to dial-up access. Viewers could choose Windows Media or
RealPlayer. They could even download "All Religion Will Be for Allah" to
play on a cell phone.

Never before has a guerrilla organization so successfully intertwined its
real-time war on the ground with its electronic jihad....

Little more than a year ago, this online empire did not exist. Zarqawi was
an Internet nonentity, a relatively obscure Jordanian who was one of
many competing leaders of the Iraq insurgency. Once every few days, a
communique appeared from him on the Web. Today, Zarqawi is an
international name "of enormous symbolic importance," as Army Lt. Gen.
David Petraeus put it in a recent interview, on a par with bin Laden
largely because of his group's proficiency at publicizing him on the
Internet.

By this summer, Internet trackers such as the SITE Institute have
recorded an average of nine online statements from the Iraq branch of
al Qaeda every day, 180 statements in the first three weeks of July.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/08/AR2005080801018.html


Yeah....
Wag, wag, wag.
The War on Terror is turning even more into a made-for-TV movie.


Quote:


Zawahri tells Muslims to join Mideast conflict

Al-Qaida No. 2 says 'the world is a battlefield' in taped message

July 27, 2006

CAIRO, Egypt - Al-Qaida's No. 2 leader issued a worldwide call Thursday for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq."

In a taped message broadcast by Al-Jazeera television, Ayman al-Zawahri said the terrorist organization would not stand idly by while "these (Israeli) shells burn our brothers.

"All the world is a battlefield open in front of us," said the Egyptian-born al-Zawahri, second-in-command to Osama bin Laden.

"The war with Israel does not depend on cease-fires ... . It is a Jihad for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahri said. "We will attack everywhere." Spain was controlled by Arab Muslims until they were driven from the country at the turn of the 16th century.

Al-Zawahri declared that Arab regimes were complicit in Israeli fighting against Hezbollah and the Palestinians.

"My fellow Muslims, it is obvious that Arab and Islamic governments are not only impotent but also complicit...and you are alone on the battlefield. Rely on God and fight your enemies...make yourselves martyrs."

Al-Zawahri wore a gray robe and white turban. A picture of the burning World Trade Center was on the wall behind him along with photos of two other militants. One appeared to be a bearded Mohammed Atta, the Egyptian ringleader of the Sept. 11 attacks. The other was Mohammed Atef, also known as Abu Hafs al-Masri, a former top lieutenant of bin Laden who was killed in a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan in November 2001.

Al-Qaida broadcasts are thought to contain coded messages to members. Three of images on the screen - that of al-Zawahri and the pictures of al-Masri and what was believed to be Atta - were Egyptian.

Zawahri: 'We cannot just watch'
The Arab satellite broadcaster did not transmit the entire tape, using instead selected quotes interspersed with commentary from an anchor.

"The shells and rockets ripping apart Muslim bodies in Gaza and Lebanon are not only Israeli (weapons), but are supplied by all the countries of the crusader coalition. Therefore, every participant in the crime will pay the price," al-Zawahri said.

The message was al-Zawahri's tenth this year. Bin Laden has issued five messages in a particularly active year of messages from the top al-Qaida leadership.

"We cannot just watch these shells as they burn our brothers in Gaza and Lebanon and stand by idly, humiliated," al-Zawahri said.

Al-Zawahri last appeared in a video posted on an Islamic Web site on the one-year anniversary of the train bombings in London. In the July 7 tape, he said two of the four suicide bombers in London spent time in an al-Qaida training camp, preparing themselves for a suicide mission.

Top al-Qaida leaders paid tribute in June to the slain leader of their Iraq network, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in separate video recordings. Many of their messages this year have dealt with current events in Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia.

Bin Laden tape expected

Another new audio or video message from bin Laden was also expected in the coming days and was planned to deal with Gaza and Lebanon, according to said IntelCenter, a U.S.-based independent group that provides counterterrorism information to the U.S. government and media.

Al-Qaida's media production wing, Al-Sahab, announced the al-Zawahri tape would be ready soon in a message Thursday on and Islamic Web site.

Al-Zawahri said Muslims everywhere must rise up to attack "crusaders and Zionists... and support jihad (holy war) everywhere...until American troops are chased from Afghanistan and Iraq, paralyzed and impotent...having paid the price for aggression against Muslims and support for Israel."

Israel began an offensive on Gaza days after Palestinian militants captured an Israeli soldier on June 25. It opened a second front in Lebanon after Hezbollah guerillas abducted two Israeli soldiers on July 12.

Since fighting began between Israel and Hezbollah, at least 424 people have been killed in Lebanon, according to figures compiled from the Health Ministry, military and Hezbollah. Fifty-one Israelis have been killed, including 33 members of the military, according to Israeli authorities.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14054482

Quote:
Following is a chronology of major statements attributed to Osama bin Laden, Zawahri or their allies this year. At least 36 messages have been broadcast since Al Jazeera aired the first statement by bin Laden in 2001.

Jan. 6, 2006 - Zawahri says in a video that U.S. President George W. Bush's plans to withdraw troops from Iraq means Washington has been defeated by the Muslims.

-- Jan. 19 - Bin Laden warns that al Qaeda is preparing new attacks inside the United States but says the group is open to a conditional truce with Americans, according to an audiotape.

-- Jan. 30 - Zawahri says he survived a U.S. air strike in Pakistan. The attack struck a village stronghold of pro-Taliban Islamists in Pakistan on Jan. 13.

-- April 23 - Bin Laden says Western efforts to isolate the Palestinian Hamas government and the Darfur crisis in Sudan are examples of the West's "crusader war" against Islam.

-- April 25 - A video of Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, is posted on the Internet, the first known tape to show an unmasked Zarqawi delivering an extended rallying address. Zarqawi was killed on June 7 in a U.S. air strike.

-- April 29 - Zawahri says in a video that hundreds of suicide bombers have "broken America's back" in Iraq.

-- May 23 - Bin Laden says in an audiotape that Zacarias Moussaoui had nothing to do with the 9/11 operations. The speaker says he personally assigned tasks to the 19 hijackers who staged the attacks.

-- June 1 - Zarqawi calls on fellow Sunnis to reject any reconciliation with "infidel" Shi'ites, in an audiotape.

June 9 - Zawahri urges Palestinians, in a video, to reject a referendum on a statehood proposal that implicitly recognises Israel.

June 22 - Zawahri vows vengeance against the United States for the death of Zarqawi in a U.S. air strike.

June 30 - Bin Laden praises Zarqawi as a "lion of jihad", and vows al Qaeda will continue to fight U.S. forces and their allies "everywhere", according to an Internet audiotape.

July 1 - Bin Laden warns Iraq's Shi'ite majority of retaliation for attacks on Sunni Arabs and says his group will fight the United States anywhere in the world.

July 7 - A year on from the London bombings, al Qaeda issues a video with comments from Zawahri, bin Laden and one bomber. Zawahri says bombers Shehzad Tanweer and Mohammad Sidique Khan had been trained in al Qaeda camps.

July 27 - Zawahri, in video statement titled "The Zionist-crusader war on Lebanon and the Palestinians", calls on Muslims to fight attacks on their countries.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L27662839.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Fintan
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 7475

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Here comes......NATO Reply with quote

Here comes......NATO

Quote:
....As the situation in Lebanon continues to aggravate—an attempt by UN-led talks in Rome—ended with no agreement to urge an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah.

The Rome conference did clinch a consensus on establishing a new multinational force for southern Lebanon — one far tougher than the existing, three-decade-old UNIFIL operation which has lacked a mandate to prevent hostilities.

"What we agreed upon is that there should be an international force under a U.N. mandate that will have a strong and robust capability to help bring about peace, to help provide the ability for humanitarian efforts to go forward and to bring an end to the violence," Rice told reporters......

Italian Premier Romano Prodi put a positive spin on the conference, saying; "what could be achieved was achieved......"

Prodi said the force must be "sizable" and drawn from a number of countries. He pledged that Italy would commit troops if it has a U.N. mandate......

Israeli officials have expressed support in principle for the deployment of an international force, recognizing that; "the Lebanese government could not likely subdue Hezbollah without assistance."

Rice said the force's mandate would be discussed over the next several days. "We also have asked that those meetings be held urgently so that force can be put together."

She said she did not anticipate American combat troops being used in the force.....

[Kofi] Annan said the emerging force would help Lebanon assert its authority and implement existing U.N. resolutions, which would ultimately leave Hezbollah disarmed.

http://www.pakistantimes.net/2006/07/27/top.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
zak247



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Israel getting it's ass kicked?



Just a day ago, Bush and Rice were saying they didnít want a cease fire until Hezbollah was annihilated or neutralized just enough to be impudent.


NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY WANT A CEASE FIRE!

Whatís up with that?

Maybe Blair has brought orders from the NWO secret boys.
I bet they donít even talk to Bush
He is too out of it

I think Blair is their number1 puppet and errand boy. When he goes to their secret hide out to get his orders I bet the first thing he does, is shine their shoes.



http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/28/us.britain/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/28/mideast.main/index.html


Smoke Signals From Battle
Send Warning To Israel
By Robert Fisk
The Independent - UK
7-27-6


QLAYA, Southern Lebanon -- Is it possible - is it conceivable - that Israel is losing its war in Lebanon?

From this hill village in the south of the country, I am watching the clouds of brown and black smoke rising from its latest disaster in the Lebanese town of Bint Jbeil: up to 13 Israeli soldiers dead, and others surrounded, after a devastating ambush by Hizbollah guerrillas in what was supposed to be a successful Israeli military advance against a "terrorist centre".

To my left smoke rises too, over the town of Khiam, where a smashed United Nations outpost remains the only memorial to the four UN soldiers - most of them decapitated by an American-made missile on Tuesday - killed by the Israeli air force.

Indian soldiers of the UN army in southern Lebanon, visibly moved by the horror of bringing their Canadian, Fijian, Chinese and Austrian comrades back in at least 20 pieces from the clearly marked UN post next to Khiam prison, left their remains at Marjayoun hospital yesterday.

In past years, I have spent hours with their comrades in this UN position, which is clearly marked in white and blue paint, with the UN's pale blue flag opposite the Israeli frontier. Their duty was to report on all they saw: the ruthless Hizbollah missile fire out of Khiam and the brutal Israeli response against the civilians of Lebanon.

Is this why they had to die, after being targeted by the Israelis for eight hours, their officers pleading to the Israeli Defence Forces that they cease fire? An American-made Israeli helicopter saw to that.

In Bint Jbeil, meanwhile, another bloodbath was taking place. Claiming to "control" this southern Lebanese town, the Israelis chose to walk into a Hizbollah trap. The moment they reached the deserted marketplace, they were ambushed from three sides, their soldiers falling to the ground under sustained rifle fire. The remaining Israeli troops - surrounded by the "terrorists" they were supposed to liquidate - desperately appealed for help, but an Israeli Merkava tank and other vehicles sent to help them were also attacked and set on fire. Up to 17 Israeli soldiers may have died so far in this disastrous operation. During their occupation of Lebanon in 1983 more than 50 Israeli soldiers were killed in just one suicide attack.

The battle for southern Lebanon is on an epic scale but, from the heights above Khiam, the Israelis appear to be in deep trouble. Their F-16s turn in the high bright sun - small, silver fish whose whispers gain in volume as they dive - and their bombs burst over the old prison, where the Hizbollah are still holding out; beyond the frontier, I can see livid fires burning across the Israeli hillsides and the Jewish settlement of Metullah billowing smoke.

It was not meant to be like this, 15 days into Israel's assault on Lebanon. The Katyushas still streak in pairs out of southern Lebanon, clearly visible to the naked eye, white contrails that thump into Israeli's hillsides and border towns.

So is it frustration or revenge that keeps Israel's bombs falling on the innocent? In the early hours two days ago, a tremendous explosion woke me up, rattling the windows and shaking the trees outside, and a single flash suffused the western sky over Nabatiyeh.

The lives of an entire family of seven had just been extinguished.

And how come - since this now obsesses the humanitarian organisations working in Lebanon - that the Israelis bombed two ambulances in Qana, killing two of the three wounded inside. All the crews were injured - one with a piece of shrapnel in his neck - but what worried the Lebanese Red Cross was that the Israeli missiles had pierced the very centre of the red cross painted on the roof of each vehicle. Did the pious use the cross as their aiming point?

The bombardment of Khiam has set off its own brush fires on the hillsides below Qlaya, whose Maronite Christian inhabitants now stand on the high road above like spectators at a 19th century battle. Khiam is - or was - a pretty village of cut-stone doorways and tracery windows, but Israel's target, apart from the obviously marked UN position whose inhabitants they massacred, is the notorious prison in which - before its retreat from Lebanon in 2000 - hundreds of Hizbollah members and, in some cases, their families, were held and tortured with electricity by Israel's proxy militia, the South Lebanon Army.

This was the same prison complex - turned into a "museum of torture" by the Hizbollah after the Israeli retreat - that was visited by the late Edward Said shortly before his death. More important, however, is that many of the Hizbollah men originally held prisoner here were captives in cells deep underground the old French mandate fort. These same men are now fighting the Israelis, almost certainly sheltering from their fire in the same underground cells in which they languished, perhaps even storing some of their missiles there.

In Marjayoun, next to Qlaya, once the SLA's headquarters, Lebanese troops are trying to prevent Hizbollah guerrillas using the streets of the Greek Catholic town to fire yet more missiles at Israel. Seven-man Lebanese army patrols are moving through the darkened roads of both towns at night in case the Hizbollah brings yet more Israeli bombs down on our heads.

In Beirut, one observes the folly of Western nations with amusement as well as horror, but, sitting in these hill villages and listening to how the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, plans to reshape Lebanon is clearly a lesson in human self-delusion. According to US correspondents accompanying Ms Rice on her visit to the Middle East, she is proposing the intervention of a Nato-led force along the Lebanese-Israeli border for between 60 and 90 days to assure that a ceasefire exists, the deployment of an enlarged Nato force throughout Lebanon to disarm Hizbollah and then the retraining of the Lebanese army before its own deployment to the border.

This plan - which, like all American proposals on Lebanon, is exactly the same as Israel's demands - carries the same depth of conceit as that of the Israeli consul general in New York, who said last week that "most Lebanese appreciate what we are doing".

Does Ms Rice think the Hizbollah want to be disarmed? By Nato? Wasn't there a Nato force in Beirut which fled Lebanon after a group close to the Hizbollah bombed the US Marine base at Beirut airport in 1983, killing 241 US servicemen and dozens more French troops a few seconds later? Does anyone believe that Shia Muslim forces will not do the same again to any Nato "intervention" force? The Americans are talking about Egyptian and Turkish troops in southern Lebanon; Sunni Muslims ruling Shia territory.

The Hizbollah has been waiting and training and dreaming of this new war for years, however ruthless we may regard the actions. They are not going to surrender the territory they liberated from the Israeli army in an 18-year guerrilla war, least of all to Nato at Israel's bidding.

Yesterday's assault on the Israeli army in Bint Jbeil proved that. The problem is that the US sees this slaughterhouse as an "opportunity" rather than a tragedy, a chance to humble Hizbollah supporters in Tehran and help to shape the "new Middle East" of which Ms Rice spoke so blithely this week.

It is Israel which is running out of time in southern Lebanon. Its attacks have for the fifth time in 30 years placed it in the dock for war crimes in Lebanon. The toll of Lebanon's civilian casualties has reached 400. And still the US will not intervene to prevent the carnage, even to call for a 24-hour ceasefire to allow the 3,000 civilians still trapped between Qlaya and Bint Jbeil - who include a number of foreign nationals - to flee.

The only civilian walking those frightening roads to Qlaya was a goatherd, guiding his animals around the huge bomb craters in the tarmac. Talking to him, it emerged that he was almost stone deaf and obviously could not hear the bombs. In this, it seemed, he has a lot in common with Condoleezza Rice.

© 2006 Independent News and Media Limited
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zak wrote:
NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY WANT A CEASE FIRE!

Whatís up with that?


Well of course they do - why settle for a cease fire when you can win the war?

Quote:
According to US correspondents accompanying Ms Rice on her visit to the Middle East, she is proposing the intervention of a Nato-led force along the Lebanese-Israeli border for between 60 and 90 days to assure that a ceasefire exists, the deployment of an enlarged Nato force throughout Lebanon to disarm Hizbollah and then the retraining of the Lebanese army before its own deployment to the border.


Looks like another 'insurgency' is in the oven.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dilbert_g
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BACKANDTOTHELEFT

GREAT PHOTO MONTAGE ON IRAN. You're an artist.

FINTAN,
when you put up that IntelCenter page with the 12 Zawahiri videos "Click Here to Order" I thought you photoshopped that. IT'S FRIGGIN REAL!! OMG!

This is hilarious --- except for all the dead people.
Back to top
zak247



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The onslaught of Lebanon doesnít make sense other than Fintans theory that this is secretly a US, G8, NATO initiated war.

The Question is then, what are the US, G8, NATO boys going to give to Israel for their obedient service?


http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0805-26.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mona
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zak247 wrote:
The Question is then, what are the US, G8, NATO boys going to give to Israel for their obedient service?


G9?
Back to top
zak247



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mona wrote:
zak247 wrote:
The Question is then, what are the US, G8, NATO boys going to give to Israel for their obedient service?


G9?



Right
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dilbert_g
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I left this post open for a while on my Desktop, for review.

I'd like to point out a few things:

1) Iraqi insurgents are winning or stalemating the US forces in large part because Rumsfeld insisted on fighting the war with a skeleton crew. He was even willing to fire Shinseki and several other Generals who were willing to do Iraq, but who wanted to do it effectively. Some decent liberal sites like PR Watch and "best war ever" claim that they "fell victim to their own bad PR". Great Spin, PR Watch!!

Quote:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2003/0228pentagoncontra.htm
Mr. Wolfowitz spent much of the hearing knocking down published estimates of the costs of war and rebuilding, saying the upper range of $95 billion was too high, and that the estimates were almost meaningless because of the variables. Moreover, he said such estimates, and speculation that postwar reconstruction costs could climb even higher, ignored the fact that Iraq is a wealthy country, with annual oil exports worth $15 billion to $20 billion. "To assume we're going to pay for it all is just wrong," he said.

At the Pentagon, Mr. Rumsfeld said the factors influencing cost estimates made even ranges imperfect. Asked whether he would release such ranges to permit a useful public debate on the subject, Mr. Rumsfeld said, "I've already decided that. It's not useful."


We're currently at $330 billion (not "lost", but flowing to the MI Complex), plus other off-the-books costs, no end in sight, NO OIL FLOWING, moves made to intentionally alienate even supportive Iraqis (who for some incredible reason TRUSTED America), exposure of Abu Gahraib by the US Army on CNN, etc.

Brzezinski even *joked* about this ongoing decades long occupation, with 500,000 troops eventually, in some inscrutable comment. Reporters asked, "Is this your recommendation?" He laughed and said "that's what IS happening". (not exact quote)

In other words, Rummy ignored vast outrage in the military and intelligence, both from those who thought Iraq was the WRONG target and those who wanted 500,000 boots on the ground to win. But doesn't winning = ending? Why would the want the party to end? Costs them nothing, benefits a few.

The MSM talks about Rummy's 'incompetence', and some insiders were calling for his resignation.

Yet the end result is a LONG TERM occupation of Iraq, a LONG TERM threat of Iraq, the appearance of a formidable opposition (not saying it isn't), and the need for a LONG LONG LONG LONG War on Terror. That doesn't sound incompetent to me. (They quietly admit they underestimated their adversary, which they conclude means "stay the course" and "ramp up ... a little".)

In addition, long term CHAOS in Iraq means that the time Iraqi oil will begin to flow is ... undetermined. This means Iraqi oil is OFF the market for an undeterminable amount of time, and that means that speculator profits and oil company profits will be exploding through the roof for an undeterminable amount of time.

And they got their base. As Yids say, "what's not to like?"

These guys are NOT stupid. Obviously, if it was truly about winning, a draft would have been logical, necessary --- and a political catastrophe --- but they would have been forced to take that political risk, and actually win the war. Instead, the body count and periodic explosions just help to drag it out.

One more time, Rummy was TOLD by seasoned officers what was needed to win. He fired them. They couldn't "get with the program". Wink (wink)

No SANE commander fires their best players because they want to play half-assed. If a sports coach ordered his best players on the bench in a championship game, you'd suspect that maybe he had a side bet for the team to lose, or was otherwise bribed.


2) Olmert is being blamed internally, not only for selling stock before the war, but for the same thing as Rummy --- losing it, creating a catastrophe, enraging Lebanese, enraging Palestinians, and leaving Hezbollah intact. DEFEAT and humiliation.

The end result would seem to be that the endless war that Israel is engaged in will continue to be endless, and any hopes for peace negotiations are scuttled for the foreseeable future.

Are these people STUPID? Too much HUBRIS? NO. They've got job security, and surely fat rewards when they leave.

Not only that, the PNAC crowd and G8 leaders basically agreed with Bush that this War on Terror will go on for "our lifetimes". Sure looks like it, doesn't it?


Not that I'm in favor of going in and mass murdering Iraqis. Obviously, we should have never gone in. There was NO threat. Saddam wanted to negotiate and debate. Saddam wanted to LET the Marines in to have full access to everything. However, if I were in charge of starting a war and actually winning it, I would play to WIN, not intentionally stalemate. The "liberal media" began to claim that it was politics, trepedation about revealing the true costs, bad intelligence, miscalculation, etc., which led to quagmire.


Paranoid right wing conspiracy theorists around the John Birch Society claimed the same thing was done in Vietnam: mass civilian bombings on one hand, torture, napalm, nasty stuff, but refusal to hit certain military targets on the other hand, and the MI Complex firms selling weapons to Russia who was then giving them to Vietnam.

This virtually assured that the Vietnam war would go on and on and on. These guys "blundered" so much. And they listened to the liberals who tried to "tie their hands". "Communist" infiltration in the USG.

Even my parents, who were pro-Nixon but not totally insane warmongers, said "why don't they just drop a nuke and get it over with?" That certainly wasn't humanitarian, but I think my dad was speaking of military practicality. They believed Hiroshima/Nagasaki worked and was necessary.

Finally (in my opinion) the CIA and/or Nixon looked out at the sea of enraged Veterans on the lawn and decided it was closing time for their party. (It's ok to drive people to the tipping point, but not beyond, IF they can hurt you.)

Enter John Kerry, Yalie, Skull and Bones, young CIA operative. Divert mass rage and energy into political theater, invite these radical vets into Congress to give testimony, and thereby "send a message" to Congress, the President, the troops, America, that the War was to be officially ended. (I wonder who gave permission to invite Kerry and VVAW --- and even put it on TV, didn't they? Surely, behind the scenes some of the warmongers nodded to a moderates who nodded to some war opponent liberals and "let them have their day".)

We radicals won, finally. Only at a cost of 58,000. Or they let us "win" that game.


Since they've grown adept at moderating outrage, I think the best solution is to simply tell the truth about their game.


Last edited by dilbert_g on Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:40 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
Fintan
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 7475

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a classic BFN thread.
Capped off with the last post.

From the day they stood back and let the mobs tear apart the
civil service infrastructure of Iraq, it was clear that "failed state"
status was on the cards for Iraq.

Only little problem for them is that the Iraqi resistance is just a
bit more effective and resilient than so carefully planned for.

May need a little tweaking of the Nov. result to compensate.

Otherwise, in the immortal phrase: "Mission Acomplished".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Next Level Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

Theme xand created by spleen.