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Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2382
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Illegal aliens? Reply with quote

You forgot to include the human-alien interaction which should shorten the timespan by at least 500 years. Wink
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Cracrocrates



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Illegal aliens? Reply with quote

Peter wrote:
You forgot to include the human-alien interaction which should shorten the timespan by at least 500 years. Wink


No you got in all wrong. In Francis Crick's Directed Panspermia, the "outer space aliens" are responsible for life forming on the planet in the first place. I guess in Kubrick's version, the monolith is responsible for intelligent life.

Without the uh, deux ex machina , we don't have much of explanation for Creation as it is.

Here's George Carlin's explanation...and he's the guy who said that being "against religion" was more important than being "against war" (maybe because of the root of the "war" problem ?)
http://www.chaparyan.com/2005/04/george-carlins-planet-is-fine.php

Quote:
See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while.


I also like

Quote:
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fucked. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: The Medieval Empire of Israelites Reply with quote

This link has the preface of the book The Medieval Empire of the Israelites by R.Grishin and V.Melamed, for some views by a "New Chronology" author other than Fomenko.

http://www.revisedhistory.org/preface.htm

Old Testament = "Catholic"
in Istanbul, which was called "Jerusalem"
then the empire fell apart in the 13th or 14th century after the world's first world war,
leading to nations and the nations desperately searching for their own (fake) histories

These guy also think the Great Wall of China was built in the 15th or 16 centuries, which differs from Gabowitsch's 20th century hypothesis, but the preface doesn't give an explanation for this reasoning.




Excerpts from the preface:

Quote:
The riddle of Othello grows into one of the cardinal questions connected with medieval times, when modern nations, states and religions were being born.

Our book is devoted to this era. Scientific facts are collected in it that prove that now the predominant historical science is Utopian. It was built on false premises and an artificially constructed chronology. There is a multitude of evidence of the fact that all "ancient" manuscripts are literary works of the 15th - 16th centuries and that there never was in reality any "ancient" Rome and Greece as historical science teaches us.

We have collected the conclusions of dozens of scientists from various countries that the most ancient monuments of mankind, the pyramids of Egypt, were erected in the period between the 11 and 18th centuries of our era.

The processing of written sources on a computer, with a comparative analysis of their authenticity, and the other newest methods of the study of history, which were found by the scientists, allows the contention that: in the 13 - 14th centuries of our era, the first world war in history broke out. It ended with the formation of a colossal empire with a capital in Istanbul, which at that time was called Jerusalem. Its territory included a large part of Europe, Asia, all of the civilized regions of Africa and Japan. There is basis to say that the Aztec civilization also was included in the Empire's composition.

Its subjects named their country Israel Israel History : Empire of Jews and practiced a religion which approximately is set forth in the Old Testament. They named their faith catholic.

Having existed for 70-80 years, the empire broke up. The violent creation of states began and the formation of peoples and nations in the modern meaning of these words.

An objective political need arose for the writing of one's own history, in comparison with a history common and characteristic for an empire. It was necessary to find or to create the proper historical roots, one's own antiquity, which was not the same as the antiquity of the neighbors. In which connection, the more deeply these roots went into the centuries, the more legitimate those or the other rulers looked in the eyes of the subjects. It was as if their authority was sanctified by the centuries.

....

The ancient manuscripts appeared according to a scheme which is well seen in the example of one of the brightest forgers of that time, Poggio Bracciolini. He, an author of historical and moralistic books, was in the full sense of the word the dominant influence of his century. Many found it possible to define the first half of the Italian 15th Century as Poggio's century. Florence raised a statue to him, which was carved by the sculpture Donatello.

With the cooperation of the Florentine scholar and book collector Niccolo Niccoli, Poggio Bracciolini established a kind of permanent study of ancient literature and attracted a whole series of collaborators and partners to the business.

Poggio Bracciolini and Bartolomeo di Montepulciano made the first of their "finds" in the era of the Council of Constance. In a forgotten, damp tower of the St. Gall monastery, in which a prisoner would not survive even three days, they chanced "to find" safe and sound a heap of ancient manuscripts: essays by Quintilian, Valerius Flaccus, Asconius Pedianus, Nonius Marcellus, Probus and others. After some time, Bracciolini supposedly discovered fragments "from Petronius" and "the Bucolics" of Calpurnius.

Poggio's clients were the Medici, the aristocratic families of England, the House of the Dukes of Burgundy, Cardinal Orsini, Colonus, the wealthy such as Bartholomeo de Bardis, and universities. He became very rich on "ancient" manuscripts.

....

The history of Russia and China is full of distortions and fictions. For political and many other reasons, legends were constructed of the Tatar Mongolian yoke in Russia and the centuries old struggle with the Huns in China. Both that and the other are simply untrue. And so, we shall try to explain in the pages of this book what it was in fact and why the Great Wall was built in China in the 15th and 16th centuries.
....
The Austrian Cuspinian (Johann Spiesheimer) carried out the same work for the Hapsburgs, deriving their uninterrupted genealogy from Julius Caesar. The history of Great Britain in the editions of the father and son lords-chancellor Bacon became the most "pseudo-scientific," which were provided moreover with brilliant "PR" in the form of Shakespeare's narrative plays. The peaceful unification of England and Scotland under the crown of the new Scottish dynasty of the Stuarts predetermined also an "uninterrupted legitimate" history of the dynastic replacement of Scottish rulers over 1,200 years.

The Roman Catholic Church, which was alarmed by the preservation of its political influence, took in the process of the creation of a pseudo-scientific "worldwide secular" history the most active participation, in particular, in the person of the Jesuit monk, Dionysius Petavius. The adoption itself in Europe of a modern chronology by a decision of the 1563 Council of Trent became an important turning point - only in this year was it declared that it was coming up on namely 1,563 years since the birth of Christ, and all sources which contradicted this were ordered to be burnt. At the same time, the "Book of Popes" also appeared which recorded somehow the uninterrupted succession of the Roman Popes from the 4th through the 9th centuries (to Pope Nicholas I.)

Even business created a modern historical tradition. From the middle of the 15th century, by the efforts most of all of the Florentine Medici bankers, history became the object of an extremely profitable business - starting from "holy relics" and ending with "ancient manuscripts." The most glaring example is the "Donation of Constantine," the forgery of which Lorenzo Valla proved right in the middle of the 15th century.

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--Cracrocrates


Last edited by Cracrocrates on Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:08 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:47 pm    Post subject: Joshua = Alexander the Great Reply with quote

Joshua = Alexander the Great


1. I just realized that the 1520 A.D. world map by Petrus Apianus that I posted on page 7 of this thread is useful for explaining the mainstream anomaly of Alexander conquering India even though Indians have no records whatsoever of Alexander.
On the map, you'll notice that practically the entire Eastern Hemisphere has regions labeled with some derivation of "India."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Apianus_map.jpg/800px-Apianus_map.jpg (low-rez)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Apianus_map.jpg (high rez)

2. Fomenko believes that Moses sucessor Joshua was equivalent to Alexander the Great. Joshua is considered the most warlike in the Bible, with military campaign after military campaign; two of the kings Joshua conquered were Makkedah and Madon. Fomenko thinks Alexander of Macedon really lived during 15th or 16th centuries A.D., but says his analysis is mostly in Chron 5. The outline details mostly seem to say "both were very warlike, and conquered many lands and nations." Also, Alexander probably fought "Prussians" or white russians, not Persians.


Here are some details from his outline in Chron2:

Quote:
Excerpts from Chronology 2, Chapter 4, pp. 339-342

10.2. Joshua, Son of Nun, and Alexander the Great


10.14a. The Bible. Joshua, the contemporary of
Aaron = Arius = Leo, and a famous Biblical
warlord) who had conquered many lands
and nations (the book of Joshua).

10.14b. The phantom Middle Ages. Alexander the
Great is a famous "ancient" military com-
mander whose expansive activity created a
large empire. Let us remind the reader that
Alexander is moved forwards in time -
into the VIII century A.D. first of all, as a
result of the 10S0-year shift formulated as
T = X + 300; Alexander's reign thus falls
over the alleged years 718-731 A.D., which
makes him a contemporary of Arius, or
Leo III (the alleged years 717-741 A.D.) the
double of the Biblical Aaron) qv above.
One needn't however get the idea that VIII
century A.D. is the epoch of Alexander's
real rule; in CHRON5 we demonstrate that
Alexander of Macedon is most likely to
have lived in the XV-XVI century A.D. We
didn't compare the "biographies" of Joshua
and Alexander in detail, yet this task does
indeed require additional analysis. Let us
just point out the most obvious parallels.
________________________________
10.15a. The Bible. Joshua battles against "the king
of Makkedah" (Joshua 10:17, 10:21 and
10:28-29). He defeats the king and conquers
Makkedah. He also triumphs over the "king
of Madon" (Joshua 12:19).


10.15b. The phantom Middle Ages. Alexander the
Great, or Alexander of Macedon com-
mands the army of militant Macedonian
Greeks and fights against many kings. Let
us remind the reader of the parallel be-
tween the Macedonians and the Moham-
medans.

________________________________

10.16a. The Bible. The tale of the numerous cam-
paigns and wars of Joshua is the only such
narrative in the entire Bible. What we en-
counter here is an account of countless wars
fought, long lists of conquered kings, na-
tions, and captured cities. No other Biblical
character is characterized in this manner.

The aim of these wars is the conquest of the
Promised Land where the people of Israel
were led by Moses and then Joshua. Joshua,
son of Nun, founds a new kingdom in the
Promised Land. ....

.....

COMMENTARY. Alexander the Great wages war
against Phoenicia and conquers it ([ 660], Volume 2,
page 412).We point out in Chapter 1 of CHRON1 that
Phoenicia is the German version of the name Venice
(bearing in mind that V conveys the sound "f" in the
German language). Some of Alexander's campaigns
also take place in India, which, for some reason, is as-
sociated with the land that we know by that name
today. At the same time, it is common knowledge that
there are no Indian sources that mention any wars
with Alexander, qv in CHRON 1, Chapter 7. In CHRoN5
we refer to a number of ancient chronicles that rather
unequivocally identify India as the Ancient Russia,
in which case Alexander's campaigns relocate to the
European Balkans (some of them, at the very least).
Furthermore, Alexander fights against the Persians.
However, we have discovered it many a time in Chap-
ters 1-3 of CHRON2 that a great number of chronicles
used the word "Persian" (PRS) for referring to either
P- Russia (Prussia and the White Russia), or the Franks
(TRN), or, possibly, the French (the Gauls, since PRS
= Paris). All of them are European nations. Apparently,
the legends of Alexander the Great incorporate ac-
counts of crusades of the XIII -XIV century A.D.) as well
as many biographical details pertinent to the life of sul-
tan Suleiman I the Magnificent, who had reigned in
Istanbul in the XVI century A.D., qv in CHRONS. We
should remind the reader that certain mediaeval texts
insist that Alexander of Macedon had spent some time
in Jerusalem, qv in CHRON1, Chapter 1. And we have
already seen that the Evangelical Jerusalem was the
name used for Constantinople, or Istanbul. Therefore,
the "biography" of Alexander probably consists of sev-
eral layers that reflect different epochs of the XIII-
XVI century A.D.

...............
10.20a. The Bible. In the beginning of the tenth pe-
riod, the Theomachists (Israelites) who left
MS- Rome fight their way to the Promised
Land (see figs. 4.4 and 4.5). "Behold, his
bedstead [referring to Og, king of Bashan -
A. F.] was a bedstead of iron; is it not in
Rabbath of the children of Ammont'
(Deuteronomy 3:11).

10.20b. The phantom Middle Ages. After the
Gothic War of the alleged VI century A.D.
the Goths pass the city of Ravenna (Rab-
bath in the Bible) during their exile from
Italy, according to Procopius ([695]). It is
remarkable that Ravenna is where the fa-
mous sepulchre of Theodoric the Goth is
located,
which probably became reflected
in the Bible as the "bedstead of iron" The
exile of the Goths takes place after the
death of Theodoric. It is possible that
"king Og" is the Biblical name used for
the "king of the Goths".

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:26 am    Post subject: Garry Kasparov 's essay "Mathematics of the Past" Reply with quote

Garry Kasparov 's essay "Mathematics of the Past"


1a. The essay can be found at www.revisedhistory.org/view-garry-kasparov.htm# . Kasparov makes the point that Roman numerals make it impossible to do multi-step calculations (or even addition/subtraction) and the Roman system has no "zero," so how did they do all those astronomical and architectural computations if believing the mainstream historical timeline. Also looks at progress in science and technology conflicting with the mainstream timeline.

1.b. Kasparov questions population figures older than 500 years using mostly info from Gibbon's Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. He's also as critical as I am of the "plague explanation" for population decline.

2. There is a 100-page new chronology "book" (possibly just an introduction) that can be downloaded at
http://www.revisedhistory.org/Book%20of%20Civilization.pdf
and it begins with an 18-page preface by Kasparov that seems like an extended version of the essay below.

Quote:
www.revisedhistory.org/view-garry-kasparov.htm#

Mathematics of the Past
by
Garry Kasparov



Since my early childhood, I have been inspired and excited by ancient and medieval history. I also have a good memory, which allows me to remember historical events, dates, names, and related details. So, after reading many history books, I analysed and compared the information and, little by little, I began to feel that there was something wrong with the dates of antiquity. There were too many discrepancies and contradictions that could not be explained within the framework of traditional chronology. For example, let's examine what we know of ancient Rome.

The monumental work The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, written by English historian and scholar Edward Gibbon (1737-1794), is a great source of detailed information on the history of the Roman Empire. Before commenting on this book, let me remark that I cannot imagine how - with their vast territories - the Romans did not use geographical maps, how they conducted trade without a banking system, and how the Roman army, on which the Empire rested, was unable to improve its weapons and military tactics during nine centuries of wars.

With the use of simple mathematics, it is possible to discover in ancient history several such dramatic contradictions, which historians don't seem to consider. Let us analyse some numbers. E. Gibbon gives a very precise description of a Roman legion, which " ... was divided into 10 cohorts ... The first cohort, ... was formed of 1 105 soldiers ... The remaining 9 cohorts consisted each of 555 soldiers, ... The whole body of legionary infantry amounted to 6 100 men." He also writes, "The cavalry, without which the force of the legion would have remained imperfect, was divided into 10 troops or squadrons; the first, as the companion of the first cohort, consisted of a 132 men; while each of the other 9 amounted only to 66. The entire establishment formed a regiment ... of 726 horses, naturally connected with its respected legion ..." Finally, he gives an exact estimate of a Roman legion: "We may compute, however, that the legion, which was itself a body of 6 831 Romans, might, with its attendant auxiliaries, amount to about 12 500 men. The peace establishment of Hadrian and his successors was composed of no less than 30 of these formidable brigades; and most probably formed a standing force of 375 000." This enormous military force of 375000 men, maintained during a time of peace, was larger than the Napoleonic army in the 1800s.

Let me point out that according to the Encyclopedia Britannica,6 "Battles on the Continent in the mid-18th century typically involved armies of about 60 000 to 70 000 troops." Of course, an army needed weapons, equipment, supplies, etc. Again, E. Gibbon gives us a lot of details: "Besides their arms, which the legionaries scarcely considered as an encumbrance, they were laden with their kitchen furniture, the instruments of fortifications, and the provisions of many days. Under this weight, which would oppress the delicacy of a modern soldier, they were trained by a regular step to advance, in about six hours, nearly twenty miles. On the appearance of an enemy, they threw aside their baggage, and by easy and rapid evolutions converted the column of march into an order of battle." This description of the physical fitness of an average Roman soldier is extraordinary. It brings us to the very strange conclusion that, at some point, the human race retrogressed in its ability to cope with physical problems. Is it possible that there was a gradual decline of the human race, with hundreds of thousands of Schwarzenegger-like athletes of Roman times evolving into medieval knights with relatively weak bodies (like today's teenage boys), whose little suits of armuor are today proudly displayed in museums? Is there a reasonable biological or genetic explanation to this dramatic change affecting the human race over such a short period of time?

In order to supply such an army with weapons, a whole industry would have been needed. In his work, E. Gibbon explicitly mentions iron (or even steel) weapons: "Besides a lighter spear, the legionary soldier grasped in his right hand the formidable pilum ..., whose utmost length was about six feet, and which was terminated by a massy triangular point of steel of eighteen inches." In another place, he indicates "The use of lances and of iron maces ..." It is believed that the extraction of iron from ores was very common in the Roman Empire. However, to smelt pure iron, a temperature of 1 539oC is required, which couldn't be achieved by burning wood or coal without the blowing or the blast furnaces invented more than a 1 000 years later. Even in the 15th century, the iron produced was of quite poor quality because large amounts of carbon had to be absorbed to lower the melting temperature to 1 150oC. There is also the question of sufficient resources - the blast furnaces used in the mid-16th century required large amounts of wood to produce charcoal, an expensive and unclean process that led to the eventual deforestation of Europe. How could ancient Rome have sustained a production of quality iron on the scale necessary to supply thousands of tonnes of arms and equipment to its vast army?

Just by estimating the size of the army, we can conclude that the population of the Eastern and Western Roman Empire in the second century AD was at least 20 million people, but it could have been as high as 40 or even 50 million. According to E.Gibbon, "Ancient Italy ... contained eleven hundred and ninety seven cities." The city of Rome had more

After 1800, Napoleon routinely maneuvered armies of 250 000. See Encyclopdia Britannica.
Encyclopdia Britannica online at http://www.britannica.com/

than a half-million inhabitants, and there were other great cities in the Empire. All of these cities were connected by a network of paved public highways, their combined lengths more than 4 000 miles! This could only be possible in a technologically advanced society. According to J.C. Russell, in the 4th century, the population of Western Roman Empire was 22 million (including 750 000 people in England and five million in France), while the population of the Eastern Roman Empire was 34 million.

It is not hard to determine that there is a serious problem with these numbers. In England, a population of four million in the 15th century grew to 62 million in the 20th century. Similarly, in France, a population of about 20 million in the 17th century (during the reign of Louis XIV), grew to 60 million in the 20th century ... and this growth occurred despite losses due to several atrocious wars. We know from historical records that during the Napoleonic wars alone, about three million people perished, most of them young men. But there was also the French Revolution, the wars of the 18th century in which France suffered heavy losses, and the slaughter of World War I. By assuming a constant population growth rate, it is easy to estimate that the population of England doubled every 120 years, while the population of France doubled every 190 years.




Graphs showing the hypothetical growth of these two functions are provided in Figure 1. According to this model, in the 4th and 5th centuries, at the breakdown of the Roman Empire, the (hypothetical) population of England would have been 10 000 to 15 000, while the population of France would have been 170 000 to 250 000. However, according to estimates based on historical documents, these numbers should be in the millions.

It seems that starting with the 5th century, there were periods during which the population of Europe stagnated or decreased. Attempts at logical explanations, such as poor hygiene, epidemics, and short lifespan, can hardly withstand criticism. In fact, from the 5th century until the 18th century, there was no significant improvement in sanitary conditions in Western Europe, there were many epidemics, and hygiene was poor. Also, the introduction of .rearms in the 15th century resulted in more war casualties. According to UNESCO demographic resources, an increase of 0.2 per cent per annum is required to assure the sustainable growth of a human population, while an increase of 0.02 per cent per annum is described as a demographical disaster. There is no evidence that such a disaster has ever happened to the human race. Therefore, there is no reason to assume that the growth rate in ancient times differed significantly from the growth rate in later epochs.

These discrepancies lead me to suspect that there is a gap between the historical dates attributed to the Roman Empire and those suggested by the above computations. But there are more inconsistencies in the historical record of humankind. As I have already noted, there are similar gaps of several centuries in technological and scientific development. Notice that knowledge and technology traditionally associated with the ancient world presumably disappears during the Dark Ages, only to resurface in the 15th century during the early Renaissance. The history of mathematics provides one such example. By chronologically and logically ordering major mathematical achievements, beginning with arithmetic and Greek geometry and finishing with the invention of calculus by I. Newton (1643-1727) and G.W. Leibnitz (1646-1716), we see a thousand-year gap separating antiquity from the new era. Is this only a coincidence? But what about astronomy, chemistry (alchemy), medicine, biology, and physics? There are too many inconsistencies and unexplained riddles in ancient history. Today, we are unable to build simple objects made in ancient times in the way they were originally created -this in a time when technology has produced the space shuttle and science is on the brink of cloning the human body! It is preposterous to blame all of the lost secrets of the past on the .re that destroyed the Library of Alexandria, as some have suggested.

It is unfortunate that each time a paradox of history unfolds, we are left without satisfactory answers and are persuaded to believe that we have lost the ancient knowledge. Instead of disregarding the facts that disagree with the traditional interpretation, we should accept them and put the theory under rigorous scientific scrutiny. Explanations of these paradoxes and contradictions should not be left only to historians. These are scientific and multidisciplinary problems and, in my opinion, history - as a single natural science - is unable to solve them alone.

I think that the chronology of technological and scientific development should be carefully investigated. The too numerous claims of technological wonders in antiquity turn history into science friction (e.g., the production of monolithic stone blocks in Egypt, the precise astronomical calculations obtained without mechanical clocks, the glass objects and mirrors made 5 000 years ago, and so on). It is unfortunate that historians reject scientific incursion into their domain. For instance, the most reasonable explanation of Egyptian pyramid-building technology, presented by French chemist Joseph Davidovits (the creator of the geopolymer technology), was rejected by Egyptologists, who refused to provide him with samples of pyramid material.

About five years ago, I came across several books written by two mathematicians from Moscow State University: academician A.T. Fomenko and G.V. Nosovskij. The books described the work of a group of professional mathematicians, led by Fomenko, who had considered the issues of ancient and medieval chronology for more than 20 years with fascinating results. Using modern mathematical and statistical methods, as well as precise astronomical computations, they discovered that ancient history was artificially extended by more than 1 000 years. For reasons beyond my understanding, historians are still ignoring their work.



But let us return to mathematics and to ancient Rome. The Roman numeral system discouraged serious calculations. How could the ancient Romans build elaborate structures such as temples, bridges, and aqueducts without precise and elaborate calculations? The most important deficiency of Roman numerals is that they are completely unsuitable even for performing a simple operation like addition, not to mention multiplication, which presents substantial difficulties (see Figure 2).



In early European universities, algorithms for multiplication and division using Roman numerals were doctoral research topics. It is absolutely impossible to use clumsy Roman numbers in multi-stage calculations. The Roman system had no numeral "zero." Even the simplest decimal operations with numbers cannot be expressed in Roman numerals. N.P. Just try to add Roman numerals:

MCDXXV
+
MCMLXV22
or multiply :
DCLIII
CXCIX23


Try to write a multiplication table in Roman numerals. What about fractions and operations with fractions?



Despite all these deficiencies, Roman numerals supposedly remained the predominant representation of numbers in European culture until the 14th century. How did the ancient Romans succeed in their calculations and complicated astronomical computations? It is believed that in the 3rd century, the Greek mathematician Diophantus was able to find positive and rational solutions to the following system of equations, called Diophantic today

x^3(subscript 1) + x(subscript 2) = y^3
x1 + x(subscript 2) = y


According to historians, at the time of Diophantus, only one symbol was used for an unknown, a symbol for "plus" did not exist, neither was there a symbol for "zero." How could Diophantic equations be solved using Greek letters or Roman numerals (see Figure 2)? Can these solutions be reproduced? Are we dealing here with another secret of ancient history that we are not supposed to question? Let us point out that even Leonardo da Vinci, at the beginning of the 16th century, had troubles with fractional powers. It is also interesting that in all of da Vinci's works, there is no trace of "zero" and that he was using 22/7 as the approximation of p - probably it was the best approximation of p available at that time.

It is also interesting to look at the invention of the logarithm. The logarithm of a number x (to the base 10) expresses simply the number of digits in the decimal representation of x, so it is clearly connected to the idea of the positional numbering system. Obviously, Roman numerals could not have led to the invention of logarithms.

Knowledge of our history timeline is important, and not only for historians. If indeed the dates of antiquity are incorrect, there could be profound implications for our beliefs about the past, and also for science. Historical knowledge is important to better understand our present situation and the changes that take place around us. Important issues such as global warming and environmental changes depend on available historical data. Astronomical records could have a completely different meaning if the described events took place at times other than those provided by traditional chronology. I trust that the younger generation will have no fear of "untouchable" historical dogma and will use contemporary knowledge to challenge questionable theories. For sure, it is an exciting opportunity to reverse the subordinate role science plays to history, and to create completely new areas of scientific research.

REFERENCES :

1 E. Gibbon. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Peter Fenelon Collier & Son, vol. 1, New York, 1899. This book is also available online at:

http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/.

2 I. Davidenko and Y. Kesler. Book of Civilization, (with preface by Garry Kasparov). EkoPress-2000, Moscow, 2001.

3 J. Davidovits and M. Morris. The Pyramids: An Enigma Solved. New York: Hippocrene Books, 1988 (4th printing). Later by Dorset Press, New York, 1989, 1990.

4 A. T. Fomenko. Empirico-Statistical Analysis of Narrative Material and its Applications to Historical Dating. Volume 1: The Development of the Statistical Tools, and Volume 2: The Analysis of Ancient and Medieval Records. Kluwer Academic Publishers, 1994, The Netherlands.

5 A. T. Fomenko , V.V. Kalashnikov and G.V. Nosovskij. Geometrical and Statistical Methods of Analysis of Star Configurations: Dating Ptolemy's Almagest. CRC Press, 1993, USA.

6 J. C. Russell. Late Ancient and Medieval Population. American Philosophical Society. 152 p., (Transactions of the American Philosophical Society 48 pt. 3), Philadelphia, 1958.

7 J.E. Dayton. Minerals, Metals, Glazing and Man. Harrap, London, 1978. ISBN: 0245528075.

8 The Notebooks of Leonardo da Vinci, 2nd ed., 2 vol. (1955, reissued 1977); and Jean Paul Richter (compiler and ed.). Original kept at Institut de France, Paris.

9 Leonardo da Vinci. Codex Atlanticus. Kept in Biblioteca Ambrosiana in Milan, Italy.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:15 am    Post subject: Not-So-Ancient Greece Reply with quote

Not-So-Ancient Greece


The excerpts below:

1) shows a few examples of why Fomenko thinks "ancient" Greece = medieval Greece; History by Herodotus is the main source

2) Herodotus tells of an account similar to Homer's tales of trouble over a woman(Helen), but in this one King Candaules proclaims his wife is the most beautiful, starts an argument with some guy named Gyges over this fact, AND UNDER THREAT OF FACING HIS ROYAL ANGER, FORCES THAT GUY TO SNEAK INTO HIS BEDROOM TO SEE HIS WIFE NAKED TO PROVE TO HIM THAT HIS WIFE WAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL. Candaules' wife realizes there's some stranger in her bedroom, plays along but realizes her husband's an asshole, AND PLOTS HER HUSBAND'S DEATH, getting the reluctant Peeping Tom (who else?) to kill her husband, causing a CHANGE IN THE DYNASTY.

3) "Tyrant" below refers to a particular clan/family of "ancient" Greek rulers including dictator Pisistratus; the unvocalized letters for the clan are similar to those for Trojan or Tarquinian; Fomenko linked these "tyrants" to the Swabian Hohenstaufen dynasty(1138- 1254 A.D.), which he had identified as the "Gothic dynasty" during the Third Roman Empire and the "Tarquinian dynasty" as described by Titus Livy

4) "basileis" is a title that means ruler, which was used both in ancient Greece as well as in the middle ages

5) a probable link of poet "ancient" Homer to the medieval ages is the SAINT (H)OMER whose clan was known in Italy & Greece; they fought in the crusades in the alleged 13th century


Quote:
Excerpts from Chronology 2, Chapter 3:
"Identifying "ancient" Greece as
the mediaeval Greece of the XI-XVI century
with the chronological shift of 1800 years
taken into account"

.......................................................................


from pp.231-232

The myths of the "ancient" Greece never fail to pro-
voke an intense emotional reaction in the modern
reader brought up in the Scaligerian historical para-
digm. On the other hand, hardly anyone has ever
heard of the mediaeval European crusader states - on
the territory of the modern Greece in particular,
that served as prototypes for the phantom Classical world.
....
We shall use the famous History by Herodotus
([ 163]) as the first important source for the history
of the "ancient" Greece. Let us re-emphasize that this
work is the furthest thing from a forgery. We are of
the opinion that Herodotus refers to real mediaeval
events of the Xl-XVI century A.D. He must have lived
in the epoch of the XVI century A.D. Then, later chro-
nologists have erroneously dated his lifetime and his
work many centuries backwards. The original oeuvre
of Herodotus must have been cautiously edited from
the viewpoint of the recently introduced Scaligerian
history.

As we shall see below, it isn't just the mediaeval
Greek events that became reflected in the work of
Herodotus, but also the Roman ones - that is to say,
the Byzantine and Italian events of the XI-XV cen-
tury A.D.
..................................................
from page 294

Unfortunately, the History by Herodotus doesn't con-
tain any chronological division of events into sepa-
rate years, and his de facto datings of events remain
unknown.


...................................................
from page 234

THE MIDDLE AGES.
1) Holy Roman Empire of the alleged X-XIII cen-
tury A.D. and the Habsburg (Nov-Gorod?) Empire
of the XIII - XVII century.

2) The crusader war of the XIII century A.D. in By-
zantium and Italy; the fall of Constantinople in 1204.

3) The crusades of the X-XIII century.


THE "ANTIQUITY"
1) The Biblical kingdoms of Israel and Judea as the
Regal Rome described by Titus Livy, or the First Ro-
man Empire in our terminology.

2) The Trojan War (or the Tarquinian War ac-
cording to Livy), also known from the history of the
"ancient" Greece as "the exile of the tyrants".

3) The epoch of Great Greek Colonization - the
alleged VIII-VI century B.C.


...........................................................................
from pp. 234-237

Herodotus the Greek, likewise Titus
Livy the Roman, begin their books with an account
of the Trojan War.
As we shall see below, this is far
from mere coincidence: the first chapters of Hero-
dotus and Livy are parallel to each other and refer to
the same historical epochs and events.
...It is remarkable that Herodotus should act just as
we have predicted. He returns to the Trojan War in
his narration
, his second account being particularly
close to the version of Titus Livy (who, as we under-
stand now, has described the Trojan War as the Tar-
quinian War). Also bear in mind that a part of Italy
was called Greater Greece in mediaeval documents
( [267], pages 282-283).

Trojan = Tarquinian = Gothic War is represented
in the Scaligerian version of Greek history of the al-
leged VIII-VII century B.C. not only as the tale of a
war that began because of Helen, but also as the rather
curious story of Candaules and Gyges. Remember
that the "legend of a woman" is considered very im-
portant in the history of the Trojan War - namely, the
legend that tells us of a woman of high social rank
mortally insulted, which had led to either a war or a
coup d'etat. The Trojan version tells us about the ab-
duction of the Greek woman Helen, whereas Livy's
Tarquinian version refers to the rape of Lucretia, and
the Gothic version - to the murder of Amalasuntha.
We find a similar story in the rendition of the VI cen-
tury B.C. events by the "ancient" Herodotus.
....
2a. The mediaeval Trojan == Tarquinian == Gothic
War: An argument among men about the virtues
of their wives.
The argument leads to Lucretia
getting raped, her death and, finally, the war. We
have seen a similar contest between goddesses
before the Trojan War. Paris (P- Rus) was called
to decide which one of them was the best - the
famous "judgement of Paris". It is emphasized
that all three goddesses were to appear before
Paris naked. Paris awards the prize (the prover-
bial apple of discord, to Aphrodite, the goddess
of Love) which results in a war. Aphrodite prom-
ises Paris the love of Helen, whom he promptly
abducts. The Trojan War breaks out.

2b. ''Ancient'' Greece. The tyrant claims his wife to
be the best. According to Herodotus, an argu-
ment between king Candaules, the tyrant of
Sardes, and Gyges, took place in "ancient"
Greece, when the former had been convincing
the latter that the wife of Candaules was the
most beautiful woman in the world ([163]) 1:7)
page 13). Scaligerian chronology dates Can-
daules to 560 B.C. Candaules even offers Gyges
to see the woman naked. An argument takes
place at this point due to the reluctance of
Gyges to comply; he is finally forced to do so
for fear of royal anger
([163], 1:8, page 13).
One has to mark the use of the term "tyrant".
The tyrants were a particular clan of "ancient"
Greek rulers, Candaules being one of them.
The word "tyrant" gives us TRNT (TRN) as its
unvocalized root; basically, Herodotus is telling
us about either the Trojans (TRN), the Tar-
quins (TRQN), or the mediaeval TRN - the
Franks, the Turks and the Tartars.


6a. The mediaeval Trojan == Tarquinian == Gothic War.
The humiliation of a woman as the casus belli.
The
"insult of a woman" (or religion?) leads to a war,
the deposition and the death of a king, and the
decline of the kingdom in every version of the
XIII century war that we know. Titus Livy tells us
of a coup d'etat in the Latin Rome followed by
the war with the Tarquinian clan. We have al-
ready mentioned that the Lydians could have
been the Latins under a different name (the cru-
sader empire of the Latins?).

6b. "Ancient" Greece. The affront of the wife leads to a
change of dynasty. Having insulted his wife, Can-
daules had basically signed his own death sen-
tence. The wife had noticed the presence of Gyges
in her bedroom and made him kill her husband,
which led to a change of the ruling dynasty. He-
rodotus tells us that "the Lydians [Latins? - A.
F.] have grabbed their weapons in indignation
immediately after the murder of Candaules, but
the satellites of Gyges have arranged matters
with other Lydians" ([163], 1:13, pages 14-15).
....
8a. The mediaeval crusades. The epoch of the cru-
sades (the alleged years 1099-1230 A.D.) is of
the utmost importance to the history of both
Europe and the Orient due to the colonization
of the presumably oriental lands, multiple wars,
and the foundation of new cities and crusader
states on the conquered territories. It is possible
that what we really see is an account of the
Great = Mongolian conquest of Europe, qv in
CHRON5 and CHRON6.


8b. "Ancient" Greece. The epoch of the great Greek
colonization that falls on the alleged VIII-VI
century B.C. is a very important one in the his-
tory of the "ancient" Greece
..... Apparently, the origins of the "ancient"
Greece cannot possibly predate
the XII century A.D. "The epoch of the Great
Greek Expansion (VIII-VI century B.C.) marks
the transition from the epical Greece of Homer
to Classical Greece" ([766], pages 46-47). The
description of Greek colonization is basically
in line with the general concept of the crusade
epoch, or the alleged XI-XIII century A.D. It is
noteworthy that the regions presumed colo-
nized during the expansion are the very same
ones that had attracted the crusaders in the
Middle Ages. The historian V. S. Sergeyev is
perfectly right to tell us the following about
Classical Greece: "the poleis were rather dimi-
nutive city-states that resembled the mediaeval
republican city-states of Italy" ([766], page 47).

10a. The Basileis in mediaeval Constantinople.
Mediaeval Greece was de facto under Byzantine
rule at the time ([195]). A Byzantine ruler
would thus be titled "Basileus". The crusades
are supposed to have played a crucial role in
the history of the Mediterranean region in
general and Greece in particular.

10b. "Ancient" Greece. "Ancient" Greek basileis. It is
supposed that the "ancient" Greek poleis (city-
states) of the alleged VII -VI century B.C. were
ruled by the basileis ([766], page 55). We see
the "ancient" title of Basileus coincide with the
one used in the Middle Ages completely: Ba-
sileus == Basileus.
Historians tell us that ((the
expansion of the VIII -VI century B.C. had been
the key factor in the further historical evolu-
tion of Greece" ([258], page 129).



............................................

from pages 237-240

EPOCH OF THE TYRANTS

11a. The Hohenstaufen dynasty of the XII-XIII cen-
tury and the name TRQN.
One of the most im-
portant periods in the mediaeval history of
XII - XIII century Rome is the decline of the
Holy Roman Empire, particularly the 1138-
1254 A.D. reign of the Swabian Hohenstaufen
dynasty, which we have already identified as the
Gothic dynasty in the history of the Third Ro-
man Empire and the Tarquinian dynasty as de-
scribed by Titus Livy
([482]). In this case the
Hohenstaufen dynasty becomes quite obviously
linked to the name TRQN or TRN which we
find in every version of the XIII century war.


11b. Tyranny epoch in the "ancient" Greece.
A 1810- year shift identifies the "Classical"
Greece of the alleged VII -VI century B.C. as
the mediaeval epoch of the XII-XIII century
A.D., where we come across the name TRQN
or TRN.
Therefore one should rightly expect
the very same name to surface somewhere in
the "ancient" Greece of the alleged VII-V
century B.C. This prediction of ours doesn't
take long to come true in the most spectacu-
lar manner, since we find out that the period
of the alleged VII -V century B.C. bears the
official name of "the tyranny epoch"
([ 258] ).
Tyrant is also a variation of the unvocalized
root TRN (likewise "Pharaoh", by the way).


....We are told the following: "the title of most im-
portant event of Athenian history that had taken place
in the decades that followed the reforms of Solon can
be safely ascribed to the political coup d'etat that
brought forth the dictatorship of a single person - the
tyranny of Pisistratus" ([ 258], page 146). By the way,
the Greek Solon happens to be a duplicate of the Bib-
lical Solomon - not just name-wise, but also due to
being similarly involved in lawmaking. The conclu-
sion that we come to is that Solon/Solomon had lived
in the XI-XIII century A.D. the latest.

....
12a. Tarquin and Porsenna (or the names PRS and TRN).
....We keep coming across the names PRS and TRN
in the history of the Tarquinian War. We get the un-
vocalized name PRSTRN when we combine the two.

12b.. The "ancient" Greece. The Peisistratid tyranny
(unvocalized name spells as PSSTRT).

....The name "Pisistratus" transcribes as PSSTRT
without vocalizations, which is very similar to the
unvocalized name PRSTRN that we encounter in the
history of the Trojan == Tarquinian == Gothic War, qv
above.

13a. Tarquin seizes power in Rome, but gets ousted
subsequently.
.......The revolt against Tarquin is led by two heroes
- Brutus (Brother?), and Publius Valerius.

13b. "Ancient" Greece. Pisistratus the tyrant comes
to power by force, and gets banished afterwards.

.........The rebellion against Pisistratus is headed by two
politicians: Megacles and Lycurgus ([258], page 146).
................

16a. The dawn of a new epoch in Rome. Tarquin flees
to Porsenna.
..............

16b. The "ancient" Greece. The last tyrant flees to
the Persians.
...............

17 a. The Tarquinian War. The heroes are accused of
betraying the Roman cause. Bear in mind that
we encounter the case of "the treason of
Valerius the hero" in the history of the
Tarquinian War. He was accused of betraying
Rome and her cause ([482]). We observe the
same kind of accusation in other versions -
the Gothic and the Trojan, qv above.


17b. "Ancient" Greece. The crimination of the lib-
erator heroes. "The murder of the tyrant had
initially caused a great outrage amongst the
Athenians, and they sentenced the killers to
death" ([766], page 72). It is remarkable that
the we find the very same scenario in another
phantom reflection of the XIII century war,
namely, the civil war in Rome of the alleged
I century B.C., where the Roman populace
got filled with indignation at the murder of
Julius Caesar and tried to punish his murder-
ers, Brutus (Brother?) and Cassius, who had
to flee ([660]), Volume 2.


18a. "Ancient" Rome. All of the above notwithstand-
ing, the heroes eventually become honoured
for their victory over tyranny. The Romans
soon change their attitude towards the killers of
the tyrant.
Titus Livy refers to Valerius and
Brutus (Brother?) as to great heroes who liber-
ated Rome from the tyranny of the Tarquins
( [ 482]). Plutarch eulogizes Brutus as the great
deliverer who had freed Rome from the yoke of
Caesar's tyranny ([660], Volume 2). See more
about the superimposition of the two Brutuses
in Chapter 2 of CHRON2.

18b. The "ancient" Greece. The accusations are
eventually replaced by panegyrics in honour
of the heroic tyrant -slayers. What we see here
is a similar change of opinion when the
Greeks begin to glorify the tyrannicides.

"Harmodius and Aristogiton, the tyranni-
cides, were honoured with copper statues
erected on the city square, and their offspring
were dignified greatly" ([ 766], page 72) . It
has to be pointed out that this ((change of at-
titude" from the part of the ((ancient" Greeks
is described in terms similar to those used by
Plutarch for referring to Brutus and Cassius,
as well as Titus Livy when he tells us about
Brutus and Valerius. We learn the following
of the "ancient" Greek version of this histori-
cal episode: "One could hear the song in ho-
nour of Harmodius and Aristogiton, the sav-
iours of the people's freedom, sung at every
feast" ([766], page 72).

....................................................................

from page 248 - 249 about medieval Saint Homer

The Trojan War is inseparable from the legendary
name of Homer, who had presumably been the first
to immortalize it in his epic poems. However, since
the Trojan War is most likely to have taken place in
the XIII century A.D., one should rightly expect the
famous name of Homer to emerge somewhere in the
epoch of the XIII - XIV century.
......Let us conduct the following simple research. We
shall once again turn to the Mediaeval History of
Athens
, a detailed and fundamental monograph that
covers the epoch of I-XVII century A.D., written by
F. Gregorovius ([ 195]). It contains a multitude of
names belonging to rulers, heroes, warriors and so
forth. The book contains a detailed alphabetical index,
a study of which soon yields a name that was rather
famous in the history of mediaeval Greece - that of
Saint-Omer, or Saint Homer, no less! The Saint -Omer
clan played a key role in the XIII century Italy and
Greece. .......We shall take a closer look at just what epoch we
encounter the name of Saint Homer in. It turns out
to be the period of 1200-1330 A.D.
([195]). We don't
find any references to the name anywhere beyond this
epoch. What we get is a unique frequency graph that
peaks around 1200-1330 - very ostensibly so, and just
once. Furthermore, it is widely known that the Saint-
Omer clan had actively participated in the crusades

([ 195]); therefore, the Homers took part in the war of
the XIII century A.D. - or were participants of the
Trojan War, in other words. By the way, the name
Homer may be derived from the Ottoman "Omar."


Therefore it makes perfect sense to assume that
some representative of this clan, a poet of the XIII-
XV century, finally collected all of the Homer family
lore that had to do with the XIII century war and
compiled two gigantic epic poems: the Iliad and the
Odyssey. This event must have taken place about a
century after the end of the war the latest (even
though Scaligerian history tries to convince us that it
postdated the end of the war by four or five hundred
years).

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James D



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Posts: 919

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's fasinating stuff Cracrocrates, keep it coming please.
For me it's by far the most interesting thread on the forum.

As history, myth and legend all merge into one another, I'm curious.
Where (or when) do King Arthur, Merlin and the Knights of the Round Table all fit into this?
All the latest films seem to want to place them in late Roman times. It's an idea I don't particularly like, but if the decline of the Roman empire was XI-XIII century.....???

Here's a few Merlin articles as a distracting amusement more than anything else :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/27/nmerlin127.xml

http://heritage.scotsman.com/myths.cfm?id=445512006

http://heritage.scotsman.com/myths.cfm?id=41772005

Seriously though, any chance of a quick resume, new revised timeline of history?
It can be quite confusing at times.

BTW you mentioned somewhere back something about the Christian sex cult and provocative or revealing statues being the highlight of the exhibition in the museum of the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, which those who I've asked here don't seem to recognise (although there are other theories and stories).
I think maybe sometimes Fomenko adds 1+1 and gets 3 and a half (maybe he was using Roman numerals!!), but it's great stuff.

I promise to visit the museum one day and report back on any porno-statues that I find.
Regards.
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Cracrocrates



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Posts: 269

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James D wrote:

King Arthur, Merlin and the Knights of the Round Table all fit into this?

I don't know. A total guess would be 100 to 200 years within the Crusades whether based on fact or fiction.

Quote:
Seriously though, any chance of a quick resume, new revised timeline of history?
It can be quite confusing at times.


For figures/graphs that should help,
1. Go to Google Books and search for "fomenko history" or just click
http://books.google.com/books?as_brr=1&q=fomenko+history&btnG=Search+Books
2. Click on Chronology 1 or Chronology 2
3. Change the page number to
A)CHRONOLOGY 2, PAGE 233 (TWO EXCELLENT OVERVIEW GRAPHS)
B)CHRONOLOGY 1, PAGE 295
C)CHRONOLOGY 1, PAGE 326
D)CHRONOLOGY 1, PAGE 365

Quote:
BTW you mentioned somewhere back something about the Christian sex cult and provocative or revealing statues being the highlight of the exhibition in the museum of the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, which those who I've asked here don't seem to recognise (although there are other theories and stories).

Isn't the Sistene Chapel's ceiling racy enough, or all those nude Renaissance paintings?
Like I said in one of my posts afterwards, however, I'm wondering if the sex cult thing was from the beginning or whether it was added later during the Renaissance, and then violently purged during the Inquisitions....I wonder if that statue I mentioned is still at the Santiago de Compostela, or if they took it out? For those who want to know what that statue looks like, go to Google Books, CHRONOLOGY 1, PAGE 406 (EDIT: Now that I've looked at it again, I guess that's NOT a pyramid being inserted, it's just a weird angle while the erotic figure is prostrate on curved stone)

Quote:
I think maybe sometimes Fomenko adds 1+1 and gets 3 and a half (maybe he was using Roman numerals!!), but it's great stuff.


That's blasphemous. Maybe 1+1 = Eleven(11), or possibly Seventy-Seven(77), but the mere thought of "3" could lead to the next Inquisition. Smile

Seriously, Fomenko and his small team of researchers were at this for over twenty years. At times, with such an incomplete record available, they followed their statistical reign graph conclusions to where they may, and then read through histories to try to make sense of the reign shifts their statistics told them may have happened.

So, Fomenko is certainly not 100% correct, but he's given a great start for others to "re-think" what we thought we knew. For example, at http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=28588#28588 this post mentioning the Medieval Empire of the Israelites concept that Old Testament="Catholic" is worth considering, and would explain why the hell Christianity spreads to billions a book that includes the dogma of people who supposedly deny (and maybe killed) their savior. But Fomenko thinks that the New Testament was written first...so did the Catholic Church just shuffle some books around and/or add new books to the bible during the Council of Trent?

The books that come out the next ten years should be quite interesting.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Joshua= Charlemagne (as well as Alexander the Great) Reply with quote

Joshua = CHARLEMAGNE
(Earlier, I described Fomenko's parallelisms of Joshua=Alexander the Great at http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=28611#28611 )

So, Fomenko has the continuously warlike Joshua (sucessor of Moses) equal not only the continuously warlike Alexander the Great, but equal the continuously warlike Charlesmagne as well.
(Is this possibly another reason why Oliver Stone wrecked his film Alexander turning it into a critically and publicly unwelcome "Alexander the Gay goes to India" film? Man, that movie sucked! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0346491/ Critics spent their time criticizing the sexuality, and remained ignorant of the fact that no records exist of Alexander reaching Southeast Asia/India .....Reviews at http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alexander/ ; only 16% of critics gave positive reviews)

The main comparisons I saw over 8 pages were:

1) both were continuosly warlike throughout their lives
2) Joshua fought the Amorites, Charlesmagne fought the Moors
3) in the Bible, God "stops the sun" for Joshua so his men can finish off his enemies in battle ; same language is used in the medieval Song of Roland for Charlesmagne....this is a unique event in both literary works, meaning there are no other known occurrences of God stopping the sun

Here are excerpts describing the Song of Roland part:

Quote:
Excerpts from Chronology 2, Chapter 4, pp.344-351

Namely, we find out that the famous
European epic known as the Song of Roland
describes the very same events as Chapters 7- 10
from the book of Joshua.

This parallelism contin-
ues the series of superimpositions that we have al-
ready been following over the span of many centuries,
having superimposed Biblical and European history
with a shift forward of 1800 years. Bear in mind that
the actual "tale of Charlemagne" in its Scaligerian
datings is very far from being the original, since it re-
flects much later events, possibly dating to the XV-
XVI century A.D., qv in CHRON6.

....
It is peculiar that all of these manuscripts are pre-
sumed to have remained out of sight for a long time
after their creation. We learn that "after many cen-
turies of oblivion) the Song of Roland was re-discov-
ered in early XIX century [sic! - A. F.], the epoch of
Romanticism that was characterized. .. by a revival of
interest in all things mediaeval" ([652], page 588).
The first edition of the poem appeared in 1837.
We therefore ask the perfectly natural question:
just how certain is the XII century dating of the
poem's first copy? Could it be of a much later origin,
considering how it had remained "lost" for several
hundred years? It is most likely that the existing text
of the Song of Roland is a later XVII-XVIII century
edition.
It may contain surviving remnants of some
old original, but, presumably, a great part of it has
been lost (or distorted by the tendentious editors).
....

10.50a. The Bible. The sun is stopped in its way
during the battle that the Bible presents as
Joshua)s revenge for the defeat that pre-
ceded it.

10.50b. The phantom Middle Ages. The Song of
Roland emphasizes that the sun was
stopped in a battle that was fought by
Charlemagne to avenge the demise of his
arriere-garde.


10.51a. The Bible. The episode with the sun
stopped in its way is unique for the Bible.
That is to say, the sun was only stopped
once, which is true for both the Bible and
mediaeval Europe.


10.51b. The phantom Middle Ages. As far as we
know, this episode is unique in Frankish
literature and mediaeval literature in gen-
eral.
The correlation between these two
unique description as a result of the shift
that superimposes Biblical history over
that of Europe is very important, confirm-
ing that what we have at hand is a pair of
duplicate accounts relating the same
event, albeit arbitrarily separated by a long
period in consensual history.

_________________
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Last edited by Cracrocrates on Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:57 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:37 pm    Post subject: Athens - The Tourist Trap Reply with quote

ATHENS: THE TOURIST TRAP
Destruction of all Ottoman buildings in 19th & early 20th centuries to create the "ancient Athens" image for tourism
The Date of the Parthenon's Construction
The Parthenon is a Christian Temple


http://books.google.com/books?q=fomenko+parthenon&btnG=Search+Books

Change the page numbers to:
A)Chronology 1: 427-435
B)Chronology 2: 269-270


A snippet each from Chron1 and Chron2 part are excerpted below.
I recommend reading the entire 8-page section (half of the pages are photographs) from Chronology 1 using Google Books.

Pages 430 & 432 has actual 1860s photographs of the Acropolis with Ottoman towers,
with the latter page showing the "renovation" aka DEMOLITION work beginning in 1865


The Parthenon was also "restored" in the early-20th century,with the Greek engineer's assistant protesting the reconstruction.

Quote:
Excerpts from Chronology 1

from page 427
5.4. The tendentious distortion of the image
of mediaeval Athens in the "restoration works"
of the XIX-XX century



Let us now divert our attention to the moment in
the XIX century when the Europeans had achieved a
hard and final victory over the Ottomans, and come
to the territory of Greece in general and Athens in
particular. One would wonder what they saw, in the
Athenian Acropolis, for instance? They witnessed the
most natural things of all. It turned out that Athens
(including the Acropolis) had been full of Ottoman
buildings, towers and temples
. Many of them were
damaged in the Ottoman wars of the XVII-XVIII
century. For instance, we are nowadays told that
"when war broke out between Venice and the Otto-
man empire, a shell from a cannon hit the Parthenon,
where the Turks kept their ammunition. It detonated,
and many of Phidias' sculptures were shattered"
([ 198}, page 19).
................................
from page 431
We also came across a photograph of the Athenian
Acropolis taken in 1896 during the Olympic Games
in Athens (see fig. 7.44). One still sees the tall Ottoman
tower on it, rising higher than the Parthenon. This
means there were still many remnants of Ottoman
buildings in the Acropolis towards the end of the XIX
century, and considerable ones at that.

.................................
from page 433
The tendentious "restoration" of Athens continued
well into the XX century. "The Acropolis only as-
sumed its modern world-famous shape after the
Greek engineer Nikolaos Balanos had started his work
here in the late XIX and early XX century" ([ 1981,
page 99). He had done a great body of work; however,
we learn that his "reconstruction" of the Parthenon,
for instance, had very little to do with the original
image of the temple. "Thanks to Balanos, Parthenon
had regained its primary shape by 1933, to the extent
feasible by that time, and began to look the way it had
presumably 250 years ago, although the opinions of
the scientists as to whether such an achievement
should be commendable were polarized. As early as
1922, Anastasios Orlandos, the personal assistant of
Balanos, had protested against the reconstruction of the
colonnade
. .. and publicly ceased all relatiom wi th his
superior. Others have accused Balanos of wanting to
build [ and not reconstruct - A. E] an imposing evi-
dence of the glory of the Periclean Athens, not caring
too much about the information concerning the true
shape of the temple
.




Quote:
Excerpt from Chronology 2, pages 269-270
"THE DATE OF PARTHENON'S CONSTRUCTION,
AND THE REASON IT WAS CALLED THE
TEMPLE OF ST. MARY "


We already referred to this subject in CHRON1, Chap-
ter 7. Let us remind the reader of the issue at hand. F.
Gregorovius informs us of the following: "Our Lady
already began the victorious struggle for Athens with
Athena Pallas. .. the Athenians built a majestic church
[in the alleged X century A.D. - A. F.], and installed the
altarpiece there [depicting St. Mary - A. F.], having
called it Athenaya [or Athena-A. F:' ([195], page 24).

In the XII century the Parthenon functions as the
Latin temple of Our Lady of Athens "as if it were built
only recently [sic! - A. F.]" ([1274], page 16). The
statue of the Catholic Virgin Mary serves as double
of the "ancient" statue of the Lady of Athens by Phi-
dias in the Latin Parthenon. The statue was crafted
in the XIII century ([544], Volume 4, page 806). Thus,
the "ancient" goddess Athena becomes the mediaeval
Christian Virgin Mary, the Mother of God!
....
It turns out that the name of the Parthenon under
Nerio had been "the Santa Maria Temple in Athens"
- the temple of St. Mary, in other words!

_________________
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Church of Crac motto:
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James D



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 919

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: The Medieval Empire of Israelites Reply with quote

Cracrocrates wrote:
This link has the preface of the book The Medieval Empire of the Israelites by R.Grishin and V.Melamed, for some views by a "New Chronology" author other than Fomenko.

http://www.revisedhistory.org/preface.htm

Old Testament = "Catholic"
in Istanbul, which was called "Jerusalem"
then the empire fell apart in the 13th or 14th century after the world's first world war,
leading to nations and the nations desperately searching for their own (fake) histories




Excerpts from the preface:

Quote:


The processing of written sources on a computer, with a comparative analysis of their authenticity, and the other newest methods of the study of history, which were found by the scientists, allows the contention that: in the 13 - 14th centuries of our era, the first world war in history broke out. It ended with the formation of a colossal empire with a capital in Istanbul, which at that time was called Jerusalem. Its territory included a large part of Europe, Asia, all of the civilized regions of Africa and Japan. There is basis to say that the Aztec civilization also was included in the Empire's composition.

Its subjects named their country Israel Israel History : Empire of Jews and practiced a religion which approximately is set forth in the Old Testament. They named their faith catholic.

Having existed for 70-80 years, the empire broke up. The violent creation of states began and the formation of peoples and nations in the modern meaning of these words.



It's ironic that the reality (if this new study is to be believed) of Israel's claim to ancient territories is much more recent and perhaps authentic than their "devine" biblical nonsense of supposed 2000+ years ago.
Neither, of course, would justify the brutal and ongoing oppression and destruction of Palestine and neighbouring countries today.

With all those Templar Knights crusading about the Greater Empire of Israel during those times, does this account for the similarities between masonic and jewish rituals? And give some credence to the source of so many conspiracy theories?

With the current Israeli empire approaching its 70th year I wonder if history is about to repeat itself with another "violent creation of states".

Regarding another point from chapter 1 of your reference :-

http://www.revisedhistory.org/spreadJews.htm

Quote:


Also in this region exists a strange legend about the fact that Jesus Christ did not die on the cross, but reached the Kashmir Valley in search of the lost ten tribes and lived there right up until death. The local population says that his grave is found here and some inhabitants somehow know where it is located.

In one of the small Kashmir villages, alongside the Wallar Link, exists a belief that Moses himself is buried in this location. Moreover, some believe that none other than King Solomon came to the Kashmir Valley. Two historians - Mullah Nadiri, who wrote "The History of Kashmir," and Mullah Ahmad, the author of "Events of Kashmir," did not doubt that the origin of the Kashmiri people comes from the ancient Israelites.



I came across this site a while back :-

http://www.tombofjesus.com/2007/home.html

Seems like JC lived to a ripe old age.

What do you reckon about King Solomon (and "all his glory")?
Did he exist? When? Where? And his temple? Would it have been in Istanbul?
It seems that the Israelis (and/or Freemasons) want to demolish the present mosque and rebuild it on the Mount in Jerusalem - not unlike what Balanos did in Athens!

"If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out." - Matthew 18:9
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Cracrocrates



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: The Medieval Empire of Israelites Reply with quote

James D wrote:
It's ironic that the reality (if this new study is to be believed) of Israel's claim to ancient territories is much more recent and perhaps authentic than their "devine" biblical nonsense of supposed 2000+ years ago.

If Old Testament="Catholic", maybe the Catholic Church wanted Israel established in the 20th century to cement the old historic lies for the future....or at the very least, saw it as a plus if they had no influence in its creation.

Quote:
With all those Templar Knights crusading about the Greater Empire of Israel during those times, does this account for the similarities between masonic and jewish rituals? And give some credence to the source of so many conspiracy theories?

I'm not big into the ritualistic masonic conspiries; a lot of that is disinfo or people trying to sell books. Rituals (like hazing in fraternities or the military) fulfill their function in social control by offering a right of passage through a social event or test.

Disregarding conspiricies, masonic lodges may borrow customs from jewish religion maybe because they assumed these were some of the oldest customs known? Just guessing; I don't know what these customs are. You probably weren't referring to the "ritualistic murder" garbage that floats around, but I'm assuming that any organization that likes genocide and murder might have tests that involve murder or blackmail to show that you're part of the group of assholes.

I can believe families and the institutions they control fighting to gain POWER, and once having gained power, trying to maintain an illusion with (historic) lies to justify their violence to future generations.

Quote:

With the current Israeli empire approaching its 70th year I wonder if history is about to repeat itself with another "violent creation of states".

Seems like the trend now is continentalism via international capital flows. The borders might not have changed, but the control sure might have. The last major creation of "nations" was the fall of the USSR, with the US bribing or forcing their way through with new military bases.

Quote:

Also in this region exists a strange legend about the fact that Jesus Christ did not die on the cross, but reached the Kashmir Valley in search of the lost ten tribes and lived there right up until death. The local population says that his grave is found here and some inhabitants somehow know where it is located.

Honestly, after such an intriguing Preface,I was a little disappointed at the excerpted chapters on that website. Maybe the entire book is better than those excerpts?.....There's probably 101 legends of "jesus slept here" floating around, and that type of story is good for tourism. To see a version of "creating history" in small towns across America, read James Loewen's Lies Across America
http://www.amazon.com/Lies-Across-America-Historic-Sites/dp/0684870673 (he was author of Lies My Teacher Told Me )

Quote:

What do you reckon about King Solomon (and "all his glory")?
Did he exist? When? Where? And his temple? Would it have been in Istanbul?
It seems that the Israelis (and/or Freemasons) want to demolish the present mosque and rebuild it on the Mount in Jerusalem - not unlike what Balanos did in Athens!

My Not-So-Ancient Greece post had this excerpt that there was a Greek parallel for Solomon:
"the title of most important event of Athenian history that had taken place
in the decades that followed the reforms of Solon can
be safely ascribed to the political coup d'etat that
brought forth the dictatorship of a single person - the
tyranny of Pisistratus" ([ 258], page 146). By the way,
the Greek Solon happens to be a duplicate of the Bib-
lical Solomon - not just name-wise, but also due to
being similarly involved in lawmaking. The conclu-
sion that we come to is that Solon/Solomon had lived
in the XI-XIII century A.D. the latest. "


Is the Temple of Solomon stuff now just to continue the lie, even if they do re-build it? I would guess that real temple, if it exists or existed went under a different time, and is in Istanbul, Rome, or Greece. Fomenko thinks it's the Temple of Hagia Sophia in Czar-Grad (aka Istanbul) The section on that can be found here
http://books.google.com/books?q=fomenko+%22temple+of+solomon%22&btnG=Search+Books

_________________
" 'New World Order' ?...same as the Old World Order "

Church of Crac motto:
"The End is Nigh. Give me a Dollar."


--Cracrocrates
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