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Cracrocrates



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: History: Fiction or Science? Reply with quote

Jerry Fletcher wrote:
Man, I hate this sh*t!

Cause I just love this sh*t!


My feelings exactly.

Disregarding my crackological tangent concerning historical & modern census numbers, I've obtained Chron 1 & Chron 2 recently. I've been looking at Chron 1 mostly.

I've been thinking about the criticism of Jason Colavito http://jcolavito.tripod.com/lostcivilizations/id13.html . Looking at his "well, what about the Magna Carta" argument, I looked at the English translation of the Latin. Well, uh, seems that the original does not include a specific date, but seems pretty consistent with Fomenko's point about dating mostly according to reigns, not according to Jesus's supposed birth. The Magna Carta ends with:
http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/translation.html
Quote:
Given by our hand in the meadow that is called Runnymede, between Windsor and Staines, on the fifteenth day of June in the seventeenth year of our reign


That got me to thinking about whether the Roman numerals taught in school were accurate. So i scanned Chron 1, and apparently there's a section on Roman numerals possible alternate meanings in Chapter 13. Fomenko claims, and provides some evidence for, the datings on ancient art (statues, paintings, plaques, books) being misinterpreted [perhaps on purpose] according to the roman numerals on the artwork.

Seems like in a quite a few works, the thousands digit in the date (ex. like "1" in the year "1999") are clearly etched "J" s, or other symbols, like AoJ or a straight line surrounded by three dots. Even John Harvard's commemorative baptism plaque includes a "J" instead of a "1" in the date. Fomenko also mentions in chapter 13.3 that "I" or "J" or "the first letters in the name of Jesus" were still used to denote "1" in some European regions until the 18th century.

Makes me wonder about how much the Catholic Church has hidden history. The Church clearly had interest in astrological phenomenon by helping fund observatories. Maybe YEAR ZERO is not actually Jesus's birth, but some astronomical phenomenon that was known throughout the world (Velikovsky's crazy descriptions of planetary bodies colliding, perhaps) ?

_________________
" 'New World Order' ?...same as the Old World Order "

Church of Crac motto:
"The End is Nigh. Give me a Dollar."


--Cracrocrates


Last edited by Cracrocrates on Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: History: Fiction or Science? Reply with quote

Cracrocrates wrote:
Jerry Fletcher wrote:
Man, I hate this sh*t!

Cause I just love this sh*t!


My feelings exactly.


Yeah... parsing out the medieval psyop of the modern information age is as addictive to me as, well, 'crac'. Wink

Quote:
Disregarding my crackological tangent concerning historical & modern census numbers, I've obtained Chron 1 & Chron 2 recently. I've been looking at Chron 1 mostly.


While neither edition is an easy read, you've got to give Chron 1 a thorough and detailed read for the info in Chron 2 to make any sense at all. From what I understand, there are a nine volumes that make up the totality of Fomenko's research into the New Chronology, with Chron 1 simply being the 'intro'.

It requires all of Chron 1 just to provide the introduction to the basic premise, and an overview of Fomenko's entire thesis, along with a few of the most 'slap your forehead' bits of evidentiary support.

Chron 2 immediately begins the extremely in-depth analysis of this evidence, and quickly becomes a ferociously slow and difficult read.

Without a thorough understanding of Chron 1, Chron 2 is unreadable gibberish.

Quote:
I've been thinking about the criticism of John Colavito http://jcolavito.tripod.com/lostcivilizations/id13.html . Looking at his "well, what about the Magna Carta" argument, I looked at the English translation of the Latin. Well, uh, seems that the original does not include a specific date, but seems pretty consistent with Fomenko's point about dating mostly according to reigns, not according to Jesus's supposed birth. The Magna Carta ends with:
http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/translation.html
Quote:
Given by our hand in the meadow that is called Runnymede, between Windsor and Staines, on the fifteenth day of June in the seventeenth year of our reign


Yeppers.

Consider this too - back in the days of joust and flagon, the world that these authors considered was their world - their 'realm' or 'kingdom', or yes, their reign.

For them, the world began when they got to be king, and didn't include any places or realms that they were not yet king of.

Not only was there no National Geographic map of the world, these goofs hadn't even invented the globe yet.

Consider also, in the feudal structure of medieval society the term 'Lord' meant 'Land-owner', to distinguish between the dude working in the dirt, known as the serf, from the dude who owned the dirt.

Even today, Tenants around the world nervously evade beginning of the month phone calls from their Landlords.

Perhaps this 'Anno Domini', business could be better translated as, "In the year of our Lease."


Quote:
That got me to thinking about whether the Roman numerals taught in school were accurate. So i scanned Chron 1, and apparently there's a section on Roman numerals possible alternate meanings in Chapter 13. Fomenko claims, and provides some evidence for, the datings on ancient art (statues, paintings, plaques, books) being misinterpreted [perhaps on purpose] according to the roman numerals on the artwork.

Seems like in a quite a few works, the thousands digit in the date (ex. like "1" in the year "1999") are clearly etched "J" s, or other symbols, like AoJ or a straight line surrounded by three dots.Even John Harvard's commemorative baptism plaque includes a "J" instead of a "1" in the date.

Fomenko also mentions in chapter 13.3 that "I" or "J" or "the first letters in the name of Jesus" were still used to denote "1" in some European regions until the 18th century.


This shows where the 'extra' 1000 years could have come from, one of the three main shifts in Fomenko's revision.

In the transition from Roman to Arabic number systems, the symbol for Jesus could have been interpreted as an 'extra' 1, suddenly placing a digit in the 'thousands' column.

As we know there were no decimal points in the Roman numeral system, what were all those dots doing in there anyway? If they too represented the J-man, which could also be expressed as a 'funny looking 1', suddenly there's a lot of extra numbers creeping into these 'ancient' dates.

Funny too, how them BC folks conveniently counted time backwards...

Ouch, my forehead!Wink

Quote:
Makes me wonder about how much the Catholic Church has hidden history. The Church clearly had interest in astrological phenomenon by helping fund observatories. Maybe YEAR ZERO is not actually Jesus's birth, but some astronomical phenomenon that was known throughout the world

(Velikovsky's crazy descriptions of planetary bodies colliding, perhaps) ?


Or supernovae from distant stars that were temporarily visible from Earth. Bright lights in the sky that 'came' and 'went.'

Also, it's good to realize that around this foggy historical epoch, there were actually two Catholic Churches, each cranking out divinely inspired propaganda about why their pope was the 'real' pope.

Quote:
East-West Schism

Main article: East-West Schism

Through a gradual process over a number of centuries, the church underwent a great schism that divided the church into a Western (Latin) branch, which has been known as the Catholic Church and an Eastern (Greek) branch, which has become known as the Orthodox Church. These two churches disagree on a number of administrative, liturgical, and doctrinal issues, most notably the Filioque clause and papal primacy of jurisdiction.

The schism is conventionally dated to 1054, when the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Papal Legate Humbert of Mourmoutiers issued mutual excommunications that have since been revoked. In spite of that event, both churches continued for many years to maintain friendly relations and seemed to be unaware of any formal or final rupture.[26]


Uh... WTF?

Quote:

However, estrangement continued to grow. In 1190 Theodore Balsamon, Patriarch of Antioch, declared that "no Latin should be given communion unless he first declares that he will abstain from the doctrines and customs that separate him from us";[27] and the sack of Constantinople in 1204 by the participants in the so-called Fourth Crusade was seen as the West's ultimate outrage.

The Second Council of Lyons (1274) and the Council of Florence (1439) attempted to reunite the churches, but in both cases the Orthodox refused to accept the decisions. The two churches remain in schism to the present day, although excommunications were lifted mutually between Rome and Constantinople in 1965, and efforts to end the schism continue.

Some Eastern churches have reunited with the Roman Catholic Church, acknowledging papal primacy, and others claim never to have been out of communion with the Pope. (See Eastern Catholic Churches.)

From: Roman Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_church


Oh, just one of those silly seven hundred year arguments...

In Chron 2, Fomenko provides some interesting evidence that before the Catholic Church, 'Christianity' was an entirely different type of religion... a sex cult!

Yeah, baby... yeah!
So, ya got that to look forward to.

Thanks for your post, crac - glad you're checking this stuff out. I spent all last summer researching this madness, and I came to some startling conclusions.

I've recently found some strong support for these wild theories, which I'm looking forward to presenting in a major update to this thread.

I'm really hoping time allows me to do this soon, so stay tuned for some juicy gossip about the Florentine Renaissance and keep reading!

Cheers!
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Cracrocrates



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Fomenko - Roman coins - Gutenberg Reply with quote

Jerry Fletcher said :
Quote:
Or supernovae from distant stars that were temporarily visible from Earth. Bright lights in the sky that 'came' and 'went.'

Also, it's good to realize that around this foggy historical epoch, there were actually two Catholic Churches, each cranking out divinely inspired propaganda about why their pope was the 'real' pope.
....
The schism is conventionally dated to 1054



HOLD ON! The 1054 A.D. NewChron date for Year Zero(or birth of Jesus) coincides with the GREAT SCHISM....as well as one huge SUPERNOVA that created the Crab Nebula ?

Holy Shit! EXCEPT (maybe???) for the supernova part...according to these pages at Cornell http://astrosun2.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses//astro201/sn_history.htm and http://astrosun2.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses//astro201/crab_neb.htm documentation of the Supernova comes only from Japan & China (not the whole world) and that "The supernova event was visible to the naked eye in the daytime; it was as bright as Venus" doesn't exactly sound like a HOLY PHUCK religious experience, at least not as much as a much closer planetary, moon, or asteroid collision would cause. Shouldn't a worldwide religious phenomenon at least be more spectacular than say, one big lightning storm?...And where's THE FLOOD mentioned in almost all religious writings?

HOWEVER, playing wordgames, maybe
Year Zero = Year Nero ?

.........

Colavito appears to be a shoddy journalist because he apparently didn't even flip through Chron 1's chapter headings before writing
Quote:
For that matter, how can we expect to believe Fomenko's arguments since Imperial coinage that documents the succession of the emperors can be gathered from virtually every year from 27 BCE to 1453 CE?


"Numismatic Dating" (Ch1,Sec13) explains:

1) that record of almost all Roman GOLDEN coinage disappears from 8th Century A.D. to 13th Century A.D., leading to books with titles like "The End of Roman Coinage" or "The Lack of Gold Coinage". [Devil's Advocate:So, what about silver? Was this a "Silver Standard" era or something with a 500-year gap of lack of documentation until the "resurrection" of gold in 1252 A.D.???]

2)There currently is NO RECORD OF ANY PAPAL COINS from Benedict VII (984 A.D.) to times of Leo IX (about 1050 A.D.); only 1 coin from Leo IX remains...and NO COINS remain from the Gregory VII papacy (1073-1085) ; Fomenko guesses that coins from the missing era have been MISDATED BY MODERN HISTORIANS AS ANCIENT COINS . BUT even stranger, there is no record of gold coinage present today from about the 700-900 A.D. period even from MUSLIM SPAIN

3) Some coins had no imprinted dates (unlike today's modern coins), with historians dating them according to Scalinger's chron, EXAMPLE..If the coin says "Nero" its 1st century, if it says "Justinian" it must be 6th century....DOES THAT MEAN THAT MY GEORGE WASHINGTON QUARTERS ARE 18th CENTURY ?

........

Jerry Fletcher said on 2006 Dec 6:
Quote:
Before 'inventing' the printing press, Gutenberg was a goldsmith from Germany....Gutenberg's printing technology spread rapidly throughout Europe and is considered a key factor in the European Renaissance....Gutenberg was born in the German city of Mainz, the youngest son of the upper-class merchant Friele Gensfleisch zur Laden, and his second wife Else Wyrich, daughter of a shopkeeper. According to some accounts Friele was a goldsmith for the bishop at Mainz, but most likely he was involved in the cloth trade[2]. Gutenberg's year of birth is not known; it was certainly between 1394 and 1404, most likely around 1400. ....At the time, patricians in Mainz were often named after the houses they owned, and around 1427, the name zu Gudenberg, after the family house in Mainz, is documented for the first time.[2] This house had previously been known as "Judenberg," Jewish Hill.


Hmmmm! The supposed inventor of the printing press (outside of China) was a GOLDSMITH. Quite the "Renaissance Man?" huh? Any chance that the PRINTING PRESS(fiat currency) was as important to FINANCE in years past as COMPUTERS are today? I figure those long decades of state-supported investment in silicon technology were instigated at the behest of financial powers in the first place, so maybe the same kind of interests funded the printing press as well.

....
Jerry Fletcher said:
Quote:
Funny too, how them BC folks conveniently counted time backwards...


Haven't you figured it out, yet?
B.C. means BEFORE CRAC.
Currently, this year is actually 14 B.C.
Sometime in "2021"(hah!), YEAR ZERO A.C., or AFTER CRAC, I will begin my reign!
Future historians will be talking about the B.C./A.C. transition, of course.
A minute number of future historians will begin counting from the D.C. , or Dead Crac, era starting around, uh..."3001"...leading to an academic A.C./D.C. debate lasting the next few millenia among calendar makers.

.....
Jerry Fletcher said:
Quote:
so stay tuned for some juicy gossip about the Florentine Renaissance and keep reading!


In "Thinking Zone" on BFN last month, I started a weird thread http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2931 on Frank Zappa - Fulcanelli - Alchemy (long explanation from me on why in first post) which later turned into more of an art thread of Medieval vs. Renaissance because of an excerpt from Le Mystère des Cathédrales in my "The 'Renaissance' was OVER-RATED !" post :
Quote:
Those of the
Renaissance, preoccupied above all by their personality, jealous of
their worth, built for their own future fame. The Middle Ages owed
their splendour to the originality of their creations; the Renaissance
owed its vogue to the servile fidelity of its copies. The former was
an idea; the latter, a fashion. On one side, genius; on the other,
talent.
In gothic art, the actual execution remains subordinate to
the idea; in Renaissance art, it dominates and obliterates the idea.
The one appeals to the heart, to the brain, to the soul; it is the
triumph of spirit. The other is directed to the senses; it is the
glorification of matter. From the twelfth to the fifteenth century,
there was poverty of media, but a wealth of expression; from the
sixteenth century onwards, art has shown beauty of form, but
mediocrity of invention.
The medieval masters knew how to animate
common limestone; the artists of the Renaissance left their marble
inert and cold.


Maybe a transition from classical artwork to more commerical perhaps?

Also, that thread on Page 2 has a Bosch (1450-1516) painting Christ Mocked with Jesus having a "What Me Worry" look as well as coalraker posting a Bosch painting that shows HELL = Having A Flute Shoved Up Your Ass.

---Crac

_________________
" 'New World Order' ?...same as the Old World Order "

Church of Crac motto:
"The End is Nigh. Give me a Dollar."


--Cracrocrates
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Cracrocrates



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:47 am    Post subject: Apoc. dating,NewTestament came first, papyrus making Reply with quote

Dialogue from The Matrix (1999) movie:
Quote:
Neo: Morpheus, what's happened to me? What is this place?
Morpheus: More important than what is when.
Neo: When?
Morpheus: You believe it's the year 1999 when in fact it's closer to 2199. I can't tell you exactly what year it is because we honestly don't know.



EARLIER THIS YEAR, after reading this BFN Fomenko thread and then reading other articles including a paper or two by Fomenko, my thoughts were something like: "this is neat." I'd read before that carbon-14 dating was inaccurate, and his mathematical comparisons of reign lengths (Page 3 of this thread, that graph of Holy Roman-German Empire vs. Jewish Kingdom According to Bible) had me thinking "well, there's probably something - who knows how much - seriously wrong with standard chronologies"

EARLIER THIS MONTH, I started actually reading Chronology 1. Now, I realize that those oh-so-interesting before reign-length graphs are MINOR (even boring) when compared to the remaining sporgasbord of historical research. This is scholarship, not idle conjecture. Chron1 is just an overview, but it is filled with drawings, maps,statues,figurines,ancient Hebrew(consonants only, no vowels), and books from past centuries. This book is the outcome of a lifetime of serious inquiry. Even the tidbits not directly tied to the thesis of an alternate timeline are fascinating , like Inverted Maps of the Middle Ages (Ch1;p.49)
Quote:
Modern maps place the East on the right, and the
West on the left. However, we find that the opposite
is true for many mediaeval maps - all of the sea charts
of the alleged XIV century had the East on the left,
and the West on the right....This is why the first sea charts of both the traders and the military put the East on the left.
Because the TRADERS and the CONQUERORS started on top of the world, looking down.

So, in this post, I'm going to use excerpts from the book to summarize some of what I've read so far.

1. Dating the Apocalypse in Revelations using its astronomical symbology
2. The Regrettable Absence of Vatican Records as described by 19thCentury German historian Ferdinand Gregorovius
3. If written language is flowery & verbose, it's probably modern, because to the ancients, paper was a luxury


1. DATING THE APOCALYPSE
(excerpts from Chapter 3)

Fomenko dates the writing of Revelations at 1486 October 1 ; that year was close to 1492 A.D., or Year 7000 from Adam of the Byzantine era, which was when most Christians expected Doomsday. 1492 was also when Columbus set sale (now that's funny!)

The dating summary from astronomical symbols is:
Quote:
The Apocalypse apparently contains the descrip-
tions of the stars in the sky. They give us the follow-
ing horoscope:
1. Jupiter in Sagittarius,
2. Mars in Gemini or Taurus (N. A. Morozov included Aries here as well),
3. Saturn in Scorpio,
4. Mercury in Libra,
5. The sun in Virgo,
6. The moon under the feet of Virgo
7. Venus in Leo.
For a rough astronomical calculation, even three
of these basic planets would suffice: Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn.
The sun moves rapidly and makes a com-
plete zodiacal revolution in a year. Therefore it is only
useful in determining the month. Mercury is usually
poorly visible. (See above.) Therefore, errors were fre-
quently made in determining its position in the
Middle Ages.


Fomenko goes through Revelations almost verse-by-verse.
Maybe I'll provide more excerpts later, but some of the grabbag of points are:

planets were represented as chariots in the middle ages,

The word "cherubim" (KHRBIM or RKHBIM) can also be used to refer to a chariot, "the throne" is a well-known constellation; the stars of Ursa Major also was known as "The Chariot of Souls,"

observation point was isle of Patmos (Mediterranean);

the Apocalypses contains references to the constellation of Cassiopeia, which was actually perceived as the image of Christ (the King) enthroned in the Middle Ages,

"any complete astronomy textbook points out that in the days of yore the sky was divided intwo twenty-four meridional sectors which converge at the poles of the celestial sphere,"

the other main constellations are LEO (lion) TAURUS (ox), SAGITTARIUS(centaur has human face), PEGASUS "like a flying eagle" [there were other reasons for choosing pegasus instead of "eagle" constellation],

Mercuy is in Libra because that barley trading and scales talk refers to Mercury,who was also the patron of trade


2.Absence of Vatican Records as described by 19thCentury German historian Ferdinand Gregorovius
(excerpts from Chapter 7, pp.374-5)

Quote:
We shall give a brief overview of the mediaeval his-
tory of Rome that is based in particular on the fun-
damental six-volume work of the German historian
F. Gregorovius ([ 196]). The significance of this work
lies in the fact that it actually consists of a large num-
ber of mediaeval documents that have been meticu-
lously compiled by Gregorovius, along with his
scrupulous and accurate comments on the matter.
Gregorovius writes that "ever since the decline of
the Gothic state [which supposedly occurred in the
VI century A.D. - A. F.], the ancient Gothic rule came
to absolute ruination. Laws, monuments, and even
historical recollections had all fallen into oblivion"
([196], Volume 2, pages 3-4).

The mandatory chronological sublation of secular
chronicles from the mediaeval Roman history - the
History of Titus Livy, for example, which had been de-
clared "ancient history" - made Rome a completely ec-
clesial city from the point of view of the Scaligerian and
modern history. F. Gregorovius writes that "Rome had
miraculously transformed into a monastery."
This mys-
terious transformation of «secular ancient Rome») (let
us remind the reader of the iron legions and the in-
flexible heroes of the days of yore) into the "mediaeval
ecclesiastical Rome" had been proclaimed as "one of the
greatest and most amazing metamorphoses in the his-
tory of humanity." ([196], Volume 2, pages 3-6).
It is significant that almost all of the political and
civil institutions that comprise "the quintessence of
ancient Rome" according to the Scaligerian history
were present at "the rise of mediaeval Rome.» Medi-
aeval evidence of Rome is extremely scarce in the
Scaligerian chronology. Gregorovius tells us that «the
events of the years to follow remain unknown to us,
since the chronicles of that age are as monosyllabic and
blear as the epoch itself, and they only tell us of disas-
ters and afflictions" ([196], Volume 2, page 21) - all
of this coming from the author of a fundamental his-
torical tractate ([ 196]).

The following is told of the events of the middle
of the alleged IX century A.D.
:
"the historians of Roman history have to contend themselves with the an-
nals of the Frankish chronographers in what con-
cerns this period which contain rather meagre infor-
mation, as well as Papal biographies that only contain
indications of what buildings were erected and what
donations made. There is no hope for a historian to
present a picture of the city's civil life of the period'


([196], Volume 3, page 58)
Further, we learn that: ((a great many ecclesial acts
and regestae were kept in the Papal archive... The
loss of these treasures [or their arbitrary transfer into
"antiquity" ..... A. F.], that have perished without a trace
in the XII or the XIII century (which resulted in a
great gap in our knowledge of the time).» ([ 196]) Vol-
ume 3) page 121)

All of this appears to mean that the overwhelm-
ing portion of surviving documents pertinent to the
history of the mediaeval Italian Rome belongs to the
XI century, or even to the post-XI century period.
F. Gregorovius writes that «if all of these regestae had
been in our possession. .. there is no doubt that the his-
tory of the city of Rome between the VIII and the X
century [three hundred years, that is- A. F.] would in-
stantly become illuminated by a different, and a much
brighter light" ( [ 196], Volume 3) page 131, comment 30).

He writes further:
'Not a single scribe can be found who would care
to immortalize the dramatic history of the city in writ-
ing.
Germany, France, and even Southern Italy. . . have
provided us with a great many chronicles; however, the
Roman monks have been so indifferent to the fate of
their city that the events of that epoch remain utterly
nebulous'
: ([196], Volume 3, pages 125-126)
It is assumed that ((at the same time, the papacy
carried on with its ancient chronicles with vehe-
mence» ([196], Volume 3, pages 125-126). However)
this is only a hypothesis of the Scaligerian history.
This Papal chronicle - or, rather, its late version
we're being offered today - is by no means continuous.
It demonstrates gigantic gaps. "The biography of
Nicholas I
(who is supposed to have lived in the IX cen-
tury A.D. - A. F) marks the point where the Papal books
cease to be kept
and we shall have many a chance to
regret the lack of this source in our presentation of the
history of the city)
([196], Volume 3, page 127).




3. Flowery & Verbose Language = NOT ANCIENT
(excerpt from Chapter 7, p.383)

A single page of papyrus is a real bitch to make.

I think I'm gonna write using only consonants from now on:

HLY FCKNG SHT MKNG PPR TKS LNG TM

Quote:
1.6. The amount of time required for
the manufacture of one sheet of parchment



We shall conclude with another useful observa-
tion. Many of the classical ((ancient)) texts are written
on parchment or papyrus - however) they're written
in a perfect acrolect. On the other hand) many really
old mediaeval texts are written in a clumsy and brief
manner, which is quite natural. Primitive language
requires time in order to become literary language.
Furthermore) really ancient texts contain words writ-
ten in nothing but consonants comprising semantic
skeletons of words) with vowels either altogether miss-
ing, or replaced by small diacritical signs. This is the
reason for the existence of the vocalization problem
for many ancient texts) namely, the Biblical ones
- it
translates as the necessity to find just the right vow-
els in order to restore the original. Apparently) due to
the scarcity and high cost of writing materials in an-
tiquity) the scribes were frugal with them, and con-
densed the text) leaving nothing but consonants. One
naturally comes to think that a polished literary style
implies a long evolution of culture, and also the avail-
ability of writing materials) since style takes practice
to evolve. Paper) for instance, is rather cheap (al-
though this has not always been the case). However,
there was no paper in (antiquity." As we are being
told nowadays) the "ancient» classics used parchment
exclusively. Just how available had parchment been?
The manufacture of one sheet of parchment re-
quires the following
(see [544]) for instance):

1) skinning a young calf no older than 6 weeks or a young lamb;
2) macerating the skin in running water up to 6 days;
3) scrubbing the membrane off with a special scrubber;
4) loosening the wool via souring the skin in a damp pit and subjecting it to ash and lime for 12-20 days;
5) scraping off the loosened wool;
6) fermenting the clear skin in oat or wheat bran in order to remove excessive lime;
7) tanning the skin with special extracts to make it soft after drying;
8) eliminating the roughness by pumicing the chalked skin.
This is the procedure required for the manufacture
of every leaf of parchment.
This made both parch-
ment and papyrus luxuries, which had been the case
until the very discovery of rag-paper before the
Renaissance.


Let us open the work of the 'ancient" Titus Livy.
He begins his narration ornately and grandiloquently:

Shall my writing of the history of the Roman
people ever since the foundation of the capital be
worth the effort? I do not know it well, and even if I
did, I would have been too timid to utter it aloud. This
endeavour) as I can see perfectly well, is far from orig-
inal) and has been attempted by many; also) the new
writers that keep on appearing think they may either
add something new factually) or excel the austere an-
tiquity by the art of enunciation. . ."
([ 482])

We are being assured that such a free- flowing and
elaborate style had been used in the alleged I century
B.C. for the writing of 142 (or 144) according to dif-
ferent sources) books by Titus Livy. Developing a style
as confident as his must have required writing lots of
drafts. How much parchment (and how many calves
and lambs) would it require? Our take is that the ex-
planation is simple - the creation of all these «an-
cient" books took place in the Middle Ages, when
paper was already widely known.






_________________
" 'New World Order' ?...same as the Old World Order "

Church of Crac motto:
"The End is Nigh. Give me a Dollar."


--Cracrocrates
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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry Ford once said: "History is largely bunk".

He was a smart guy in many ways.
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anima_kulture



Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 282
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:44 am    Post subject: Ford Reply with quote

Almost every way Cool

"Competition is the keen cutting edge of business, always shaving away at costs."


"Exercise is bunk. If you are healthy, you don't need it: if you are sick you
should not take it."

"History is more or less bunk."

"I am looking for a lot of men who have an infinite capacity to not know what
can't be done. "

"I do not believe a man can ever leave his business. He ought to think of it
by day and dream of it by night."

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right."

"It has been my observation that most people get ahead during the time that
others waste."

"It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money.
It is the customer who pays the wages."

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and
monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before
tomorrow morning."

"Most people spend more time and energy going around problems than in trying
to solve them."

"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal."

"One of the greatest discoveries a man makes, one of his great surprises, is to find
he can do what he was afraid he couldn't do"

"Quality means doing it right when no one is looking."

"Speculation is only a word covering the making of money out of the manipulation of prices,
instead of supplying goods and services."

"The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to make money do more for
the betterment of life."

"The man who will use his skill and constructive imagination to see how much he can
give for a dollar, instead of how little he can give for a dollar, is bound to succeed."

"There is joy in work. There is no happiness except in the realization that we have
accomplished something."

"There is one rule for industrialists and that is: make the best quality of goods possible
at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible."

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it."

"We don't want tradition. We want to live in the present and the only history that is worth
a tinker's dam is the history we make today."


"Wealth, like happiness, is never attained when sought after directly. It comes as a
by-product of providing a useful service."

"You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do."

(Henry Ford)

_________________
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people."
(Spencer Johnson)
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Cracrocrates



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Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Back to the FTR Reply with quote

BCK T FTR TNS
...uh, I mean
BACK TO THE FUTURE...TENSE!

How about all those Old Testament prophecies? Forgetting about Fomenko's claim that the New Testament was written before the Old Testament for now, apparently there's one very enlightening fact about "ancient" Hebrew as a written language:

from Chapter 4, p. 185, of Chron1

Quote:
"ancient" Hebraic has no future tense, and so infer-
ences of future time have to be determined accord-
ing to the context. Therefore some text written in the
present tense and referring to the events of the pres-
ent and the past could be transformed into text writ-
ten in the future tense, according to the perception
of later readers ([543]). Could this be the reason why
Hebraic literature contains so many prophecies?

_________________
" 'New World Order' ?...same as the Old World Order "

Church of Crac motto:
"The End is Nigh. Give me a Dollar."


--Cracrocrates
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coalraker



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: musical altarpiece Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, that thread on Page 2 has a Bosch (1450-1516) painting Christ Mocked with Jesus having a "What Me Worry" look as well as coalraker posting a Bosch painting that shows HELL = Having A Flute Shoved Up Your Ass.







The Forgotten Trumpets

That was Bosch's unique sense of humor as a reference to the day of the lords coming and the day of darkness

Joel 2:1-2
An Army of Locusts
1 Blow the trumpet in Zion;
sound the alarm on my holy hill.
Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the LORD is coming.
It is close at hand-

2 a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like dawn spreading across the mountains
a large and mighty army comes,
such as never was of old
nor ever will be in ages to come.

Curiously: The face that looks out from the center of the painting, under the dish that holds the bagpipes, is a portrait of Bosch himself.


The Garden of Earthly Delights - Hell
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coalraker



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: hurdy-gurdy Reply with quote

Oh Thats a hurdy-gurdy too in the painting


Detail of The Garden of Earthly Delights by Hieronymus Bosch, showing the first known depiction of a buzzing bridge on a hurdy gurdy



At some stages in history, it's been very welcome in the royal courts of Europe, but at other times, the instrument's association with beggars meant that it was thought of as evil.
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Cracrocrates



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Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Trumpets are hell, flutes are divine Reply with quote

Cracrocrates wrote:
coalraker posting a Bosch painting that shows HELL = Having A Flute Shoved Up Your Ass.
coalraker wrote:
The Forgotten Trumpets


My mistake. A Trumpet is definitely a more appropriate representation of Hell, while a flute is just...foreplay?

I wonder if Bosch was just bitter at the propaganda, instead of believing the schtick.

I think the prevailing mood of the time(1486 ? A.D.) had something to do with the Ottoman Empire on the Catholic Church's doorsteps as well. Who knew the War on Terror started 500+ years ago ?
..............

More on Fomenko's views of the Apocalypse (Chapter 3 excerpts)

Quote:
The Apocalypse is considered
an integral part of the New Testament. However, in
mediaeval Russia the Apocalypse was not included in
the New Testament manuscripts as a rule.
As we shall
demonstrate in the chapters related to the Slavic Bible
manuscripts in CHRON6, Slavic manuscripts of the
Apocalypse are exceptionally rare - for instance, there
is only one known manuscript of the Apocalypse dat-
ing from the IX-XIII centuries, whereas there are 158
known manuscripts of the remaining books of the
New Testament dating from the same period. Furth-
ermore, even as recently as the XVII century, refer-
ences to the Apocalypse and the Revelation of St. John
the Divine apparently could indicate entirely differ-
ent books. (See Appendix 2 to CHRON6.)


Quote:
The Apocalypse itself doesn't contain a single ex-
plicit chronological indication of the epoch when it
was written. No actual historical figures have been
identified as definitely living in the epoch of the cre-
ation of the Apocalypse. No absolute dates whatso-
ever have been given in the work itself. The
Apocalypse is commonly considered to be the last
written book of New Testament; however, F. H. Baur,
for one, has categorically asserted that the Apocalypse
is not the last, but the earliest writing of the New
Testament
" ([ 489], page 127). A. P. Kazhdan and P. 1.
Kovalev had also been of the opinion that the
Apocalypse was the first book of the New Testament,
and not the last one
([765], page 119).
Furthermore, some researchers categorically re-
ject to credit the Apocalypse to John, who had al-
legedly written a Gospel and three Epistles. Generally,
it is assumed that no exact information about the au-
thor of the Apocalypse remains in existence
([448],
page 117).

....

M. M. Kublanov sums up: "The reasons for this
abundance of contradictory hypotheses on questions
of chronology are explained primarily by the scarcity
of reliable evidence. The ancients did not leave us any
reliable data in this respect. Under the prevailing cir-
cumstances, the only means for the datings of these
writings are the writings themselves... The establish-
ment of a reliable chronology of the New Testament
still remains an open issue" ([448], page 120).

_________________
" 'New World Order' ?...same as the Old World Order "

Church of Crac motto:
"The End is Nigh. Give me a Dollar."


--Cracrocrates
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Cracrocrates



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry Fletcher wrote:
before the Catholic Church, 'Christianity' was an entirely different type of religion... a sex cult!


So, uh, maybe the Black Death was just a bad case of V.D. ?
BubonTASTIC !
(I'm kidding...mostly.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
Quote:
The Black Death, or Black Plague, was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history. It began in South-western or Central Asia and spread to Europe by the late 1340s. The total number of deaths worldwide from the pandemic is estimated at 75 million people; there were an estimated 20 million deaths in Europe alone. The Black Death is estimated to have killed between a third and two-thirds of Europe's population.[1][2]


I'm assuming the "bubonic" plague, if really a plague, was probably helped along by some of the following: bad sanitation, famine, "ethnic cleansing", political cleansing, WAR ?

I don't think we've even figured conclusively what caused the "Spanish Flu" around World War I yet....a bad case of virus, too much asprin, vaccinations, too much time in the trenches?

_________________
" 'New World Order' ?...same as the Old World Order "

Church of Crac motto:
"The End is Nigh. Give me a Dollar."


--Cracrocrates
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Cracrocrates



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Eyes Wide Shut and the Bubon-tastic Voyage Reply with quote

EYES WIDE SHUT:
SLUTTY NUNS,NUDE STATUES IN THE CATHEDRALS,THE PAPAL PIMP, & THE REAL INQUISITION


I knew that Christianity had pagan roots before, but I thought the modern day negative connotations of "pagan" were just slanders. Well, apparently the Inquisition was the Catholic Church's way of executing their past of sexy "witchcraft" away. And all those nude italian statues of "ancient" Rome make a lot more sense now.

[And now I feel like Dave Bowman at the end of 2001 ...not discussed by Fomenko, but for anyone who has flipped through Martin Bernal's Black Athena books (disregarding his main thesis), the part where he mentioned something like "In ancient times, even numbers were considered cursed. Therefore, publicly, and even casually in a household window, people back then would place a figurine of a PHALLUS for luck." That was just Christianity!]

How about some Sinatra before some excerpts?
Quote:
Those fingers in my hair
That sly come hither stare
That strips my conscience bare
It's witchcraft

And I've got no defense for it
The heat is too intense for it
What good would common sense for it do
Cause its witchcraft, wicked witchcraft

And although, I know, its strictly taboo
When you arouse the need in me
My heart says yes indeed in me
Proceed with what your leading me to

Its such an ancient pitch
But one I wouldnt switch
cause theres no nicer witch than you


From Chronology 1, Ch.7, Section 3
(pp.394-409, leaving out 8 pages of photos, including a prostrate female statue from a Spanish cathedral inserting a 'pyramid' into her butt)

This section is like Bob Guccione writing an article for The Onion

Quote:

3.THE MEDIAEVAL WESTERN EUROPEAN
CHRISTIAN CULT AND THE ."ANCIENT"
PAGAN BACCHIC CELEBRATIONS



According to our reconstruction, the "ancient"
Dionysian (Bacchic) pagan cult prevailed in Western
Europe In the Middle Ages, that is, in the XIII-XVI
century, and not in "distant antiquity." This may have
been one of the forms of mediaeval Western
European Christianity. Can we find support for this
theory in the original sources that have reached our
time? We can, and rather substantial support at that.
N. A. Morozov in his analysis of ecclesial history has
paid attention to the known, albeit oftentimes with-
held, fact of the openly Bacchic practise of Christian of
-ficiations in mediaeval Italy and France, where litur-
gies often transformed into orgies, convents would
frequently serve as houses of ill repute, etc.


What does the Scaligerian history tell us about me-
diaeval Western European monasticism? Let us turn
to the book by Alexander Paradisis titled The Life and
Activity of Balthazar Cossa (Pope John XXIII)
([645]).
"Nothing remained of the reclusion and the piety
of the first centuries of Christianity, the decadency in
the church and its morals attained grandiose pro-
portions. .. The nuns' clothing didn't help austerity
either, since it served to emphasize their natural
beauty and gracefulness... Nearly all Italian monas-
teries [according to Rodocanachi] allowed male vis-
itors... As for Venetian monasterIes - Casanova is
not the only source of information in what regards
those; St. Didier writes that "nothing attracted as
much interest in Venice as the monasteries."
Noble-
men have been frequent Visitors there, too. Since all
of the nuns were beautiful and clean-limbed, none of
them went without a lover. The care of the dominae
about the morals manifested as aiding the nuns in
finding more elaborate ways of meeting their lovers
and providing necessary alibis. During the Venetian
carnival (which would last almost half a year over
there), convents would turn into dance halls and be-
come filled with masked men... The dresses have
been narrow) fitting tight around the waist, with large
scoop necklines which demonstrated the white and
voluptuous bodies of the nuns"
(see Rodocanachi
(E.) La femme Italienne, avant, pendant et apres la
Renaissance) Paris) 1922.)

Charles Louis Polnitz writes that the Venetian nuns
curled their hair, wore short dresses that failed to
cover their svelte legs, and that their bosoms were
only covered when they sang in church choir. The
garments worn by the Roman nuns also weren't ex-
actly characterized by demureness; as for the Floren-
tine nuns, the prior of a friary who had visited Flo-
rence writes that they resembled mythical nymphs
rather than "brides of Christ"
(see Pizzichi, Viaggio
per l'alta Italia, Firenze) 1820). There were theatres
at many monasteries where it was allowed to give per-
formances, however, only the nuns could take part in
those. The nuns of Genoa weren't exactly known for
continence, either. One of the Papal edicts aggrievedly
stated that "the sisters from the convents of St. Philip
and St. Jacob roam the streets of Genoa, committing
whatever ribaldries their hotspurred imaginations
dictate» ([645], pages 160-162).

Finally, the church began to persecute this Bacchic
form of the Christian cult in the West.

"The dissoluteness of the nuns in the Bolognese
convent of John the Baptist had been so great that the
authorities were forced to disperse the nuns and close
down the convent.
The nuns from the convent of St.
Leonard were given into custody of the St. Laurence
convent which had gained prominence due to its aus-
tere and harsh regulations, being called "the tormen-
tor of the nuns» . .. The amount of nuns persecuted
by the justice had grown by the day. Every Bolognese
convent had a nickname: ((the convent of the dolls»)
(the convent of the gossipers:) "the convent of the re-
penting Magdalenes:' (the convent of the wenches:)
"the monastery of the Messalinas:' etc. (see Frati
(Lodov.), La vita private di Bologna nel Medio Evo,
Florence) 1898)...

The eminent humanist Giovanni Pontano tells us
that in Valencia the Spaniards had free access to the
convents, and that it was hard to differentiate be-
tween these holy tabernacles and houses of ill repute.

Settenbrie, who studied the last collection of Masuc-
cio's works, writes that the book The Conjugality
Monks and Nuns
had been withdrawn from circula-
tion, and entered the list of the books forbidden by
the Catholic Church, while its author was anathe-
matized"
([ 645], pages 162-164).

Let us stop for a moment and think. A natural ques-
tion arises, namely, that of the essence of the Christian
cult in Western Europe prior to the introduction of the
rigid sanctions of the XVI-XVII century. Did it re-
semble modern Christianity? Nowadays we are often
told that the mediaeval clergy frequently spent time in
bacchanals. We have all heard of the alleged lechery of
many mediaeval monks who are supposed to have cor-
rupted the original ideals, which were intrinsically in-
temerate. See figs. 7.13 and 7.14, for instance.
An unprejudiced study of mediaeval documents
shows this mediaeval Christian cult to have been prac-
tically identical with the one we consider the ancient
Bacchic, Dionysian cult. N. A. Morozov cites plenty of
data showing that, for instance, official prostitution
was an integral part of the mediaeval Western Euro-
pean Christian liturgy
. Another example is the love-cult
prevalent in a number of mediaeval temples located on
the territory of modern India. Accordingly, there ex-
ists the possibility of point of view differing from the
official modern standpoint, one which would inter-
pret the distinct relics of the Bacchic in Christian ritu-
als of the Middle Ages as the corruption of archetypal
Christianity. These "ancient relics" persisting in the
Middle Ages strike us as odd nowadays since they con-
tradict the Scaligerian chronology. A change of the lat-
ter and the dislodgement of "antiquity" into the Middle
Ages instantly eliminates the seeming contradiction.
The Scaligerian history contains many relics of the
mediaeval Bacchic-Christian liturgies. According to
the experts in the history of religions, the Western
European Christians of the Middle Ages had (see, for
instance, the review given in [544]) religious rituals
including nocturnal congregations called "agapes" or
"nights of love:' Despite the efforts of the late medi-
aeval and modern commentators to convince us that
these Christian "love suppers" involved nothing but
"comradely libations" and "platonic cordialities:' the
initial meaning of the word "agape" reveals some-
thing completely different. As N. A. Morozov duly re-
marks, the correct Greek word for fraternal love is
"philia" whereas "agape" is solely used for erotic love.


Therefore the "agapes" have most probably merely
been the way Christians referred to the mediaeval
Western European bacchanals of the Dionysian cult
with all of their orgiastic attributes - the attributes
deemed "extremely ancient" nowadays. What the Sca-
ligerian chronology presents as an exception must
have been the rule for the Western European Christian
church of the Middle Ages. For instance, the numer-
ous references to "Papal and Episcopalian lewdness"
simply indicate just how widespread the Christian
bacchanal cult was in the Middle Ages. This may have
been a result of a distortion of the strict Christian rites
of the XI century. Let us recollect that the pagan bac-
chanals were described by the "ancient" Titus Livy in
his famous History of the City. And the dynastical
parallels that we have discovered identify the "ancient
Rome" of Titus Livy with the epoch of the XI-XIII
century, and also partially over the Habsburg (New
Town, or Nov-Gorod?) epoch of the XIV-XVI century
(see figs. 6.19, 6.20, 6.21, 6.22, 6.23, 6.24, 6.52 and
6.52 in CHRONI, Chapter 6).

Apparently, the necessity of curbing the Bacchic
cult eventually presented itself. N. A. Morozov puts
forth a hypothesis that this Christian-Bacchic prac-
tice of religious Dionysian orgies in the Western
church may possibly have caused a wide propagation
of venereal diseases in Western European countries

([544], Volume 5). We shan't discuss the likelihood of
this hypothesis, since it's well beyond the scope of
our work. It is however possible that the Western
European church of the XV-XVI centuries eventu-
ally had to return to the original, ascetic and some-
what austere style of XI century Christianity in order
to mitigate the effect of negative social aftermath of
the Bacchic rites. This may have been one of the pri-
mary reasons for religious reform, as well as for the
rigid celibacy edicts. This reform was later arbitrar-
ily placed in the XI century A.D. and ascribed to "Pope
Gregory VII," or "Pope Hildebrand" ("Ablaze as
Gold"), who, according to our reconstruction, is a
mere reflection of the XI century Jesus Christ. One
takes it that many events of what we know nowadays
as "Hildebrand's biography" actually belong to the
more recent periods of the XIV-XVI century.
Naturally, doing away with the "ancient" Bacchic
or Dionysian cult was far from an easy task due to its
great appeal, accumulated social consequences (vene-
real diseases, etc.) notwithstanding. Nowadays "Pope
Hildebrand" is the very person who is said to have
given great attention to this problem during the re-
ligious reform of the alleged XI century, which is the
time period to which we nowadays ascribe the rigid
edicts about the expulsion of those holy fathers who
continued their married lives. This decision caused an
uproar, since almost all of the Roman clergy was mar-
ried. As N. A. Morozov pointed out:
"The natural facet of human existence had suf-
fered defeat in this tragic matrimony conflict, and
rigid monastic asceticism became victor due to the in-
fluence of the Gospel according to Matthew - the ac-
tual celibacy edict must have been caused by a wide
propagation of venereal diseases among the clergy as
well as the laics, since it is hard to explain and justify
such an innovation"
([544], Volume 5)

The opposition was crushed, although it took years
of struggle.

The necessity of crushing the orgiastic Christian
cult entailed the establishment of the Inquisition for
the initiation of hard-line reforms in both clerical
and secular life of Western Europe. We should point
out that the Eastern Orthodox Church and Russia in
particular have never seen such open and wide dis-
persion of Bacchic practices. This is why there was no
Inquisition in the Orthodox Church. The transition
to the stricter modern form of the cult in the Western
church may have been caused by the negative social
after-effects of the Bacchic liturgies.


However, N. A. Morozov had been persistent in re-
garding the Orthodox church as the heir of the West-
ern Latin church,by and large. We consider this to be
another grave mistake ofhis. The reason for this error
is clear to us now: N. A. Morozov erroneously con-
sidered the Western church to have been much older
than the Orthodox church in general, and the Russian
church in particular, since, according to the Scaliger-
ian outlook, the formation of the Orthodox Church
in Russia occurred as late as the X-XI century) whereas
in Morozov)s opinion the Western church had been
formed in the IV- V century A.D.

However, nowadays we are beginning to under-
stand that both the Western and the Orthodox
Church, and the Russian church in particular, ap-
peared sImultaneously - in the XI-XII century, q.v. in
the new statistical chronology in CHRONl) Chapter 6.
Apparently) the Orthodox and the Latin church were
of the same origin, and have subsequently been de-
veloping in cardinally different ways. The very name
of the Orthodox (as in conservative) or ancient
Church indicates the possibility of the Orthodox prac-
tice being closer to the proto-cult of the XI century
than the Latin-Catholic liturgy.

The mediaeval descriptions of the infamous "dia-
bolic sabbats" in Western Europe must have been
based on the same archetypal "agape" Bacchanals as
mentioned above, but these have already been de-
clared "a creation of the devil" (see fig. 7.15). Let us
remind the reader that dissolute orgiastic excesses had
been a notable feature of the agapes or sabbats (ac-
cording to the Scaligerian history). Quite naturally,
the new "reformed" Western European church con-
veniently delegated the responsibility for the agapes (or
sabbats) or Bacchanals to "the devil" in order to
smother all recollections of the recent Bacchic Chris-
tian past in the congregation. The people's own his-
tory was thus ruthlessly severed and attributed to a
"different religion", or even to "the devil"
After that,
it was further removed into an antediluvian age la-
belled "antiquity." In fig. 7.16 one can see one of the
numerous and rather eloquent pictures of a mediae-
val "ancient" Bacchanal- the famous oeuvre by Dosso
Dossi bearing that very title. Further, in fig. 7.17, one
sees a relief from an "ancient" Attic sarcophagus made
in the Middle Ages that makes effigy of a Bacchanal
feast in the honour of Dionysius. The famed
"Bacchanal" by Rubens, painted around 1615) can be
seen in fig. 7.18.

The history of the Bacchic Christian cult in West-
ern Europe must have been a long one. We shall give
a few quotes from the rather rare
ouvre of Champ-
tleury titled Historie de la Caricature au Moyen
Age
(The History of Caricature in the Middle
Ages
) ( [ 1064] ). Caricature usually serves to reflect re-
ality by hyperbolizing some of its facets in order to
draw attention to them..

Champfleury writes: "The mediaeval cathedrals
and monasteries have housed strange kinds of enter-
tainment [as seen from the stance of the consensual
concept of the Middle Ages that was inflicted upon us
- A. F.] during big church feasts in the Middle Ages and
the Renaissance epoch. It Isn't just the common clergy
that takes part in the dancing and the singing, especially
during Christmas and Easter, but even the top rank-
ing ecclesial dignitaries. The monks from the friaries
danced with the nuns from nearby convents, and the
bishops Joined the merrymaking.." ([ 10641, page 53.
Quoted in [544], Volume 5)

Champfleury proceeds to cite the most modest ex-
ample, presenting it as a caricature [!], which is a pic-
ture of a supper taken by monks together With "their
ladyloves" from a XIV century Bible
(which is a fact
we feel worthy of emphasizing), see fig. 7.19 taken
from [1064], The National Library, ParIs, No. 166.. But
how could this "caricature," if It really is one, wind up
in the Bible, a holy book? The Holy Writ is hardly the
place for jests and witticisms, especially considering the
fact that the other miniatures from this edition of the
Bible do not give the illustrator away as a farceur. The
miniature depicts a typically Bacchic scenario: a monk
and a nun are entwined in a passionate embrace in the
foreground, and the same actions are performed by a
larger group in the background.
Other similar medi-
aeval artwork can be seen In fig. 7.19, the phallic sym-
bolic of the Indian god Shiva-Rudra in fig. 7420, and
other examples in figs. 7.21 and 7.22.

A Dutch "caricature" of the mediaeval Christian
cult can be seen in the History of the Papacy by S. G.
Lozinsky, for instance (fig. 7.23). A crowd of parish-
ioners bursts into a church following a priest, while
a crowd is being rampantly joyous on the square in
front of the church.

The number of such "caricatures" in mediaeval
manuscripts that have reached our age is great enough.
Incidentally, Pope Pius II, for one, was the author of
numerous erotic poems and an extremely obscene
[by current standards - A. F.] comedy titled Chrysis"

([492], Volume 1, page 156). It would also be appo-
site to remind the reader of the "Song of Songs"
part of the Biblical canon with explicit erotic references
and descriptions galore.
Of course, the theologians of
our age cagily interpret those as an "allegory" of sorts.

Champfleury in his attempt to make the monas-
tic life of Western Europe in the XIII-XVI century fit
modern morals and inculcated concepts of religious
life and "monastic ideals" of the epoch, tries to con-
vince us that all such phenomena in mediaeval art
aren't to be regarded as illustrations of contemporary
reality, but rather as an admonishment against such
actions ([ 1064] ). However, it is most odd since the
"admonishment" is pictured in a most enticing man-
ner indeed. Is it possible to conceive of someone who
would try to restrain the public from debauchery
with the aid of pornographic editions?
This would
most probably have the opposite effect. Furthermore,
if these were "admonishments" one would expect to
see depictions of unpleasant after-effects of such ac-
tions. However, none such are present!

Such illustrations in religious literature only make
sense if they are a rendition of quotidian phenomena
from the life of the mediaeval clergy - events con-
sidered normal by everyone, in other words. Had the
painter wanted to express his reprehension of the
subject matter) he would have shown this carousal in
some unappealing light, with demons dragging sin-
ners into inferno, the revolting aftermath of diseases,
etc. Instead of this, several mediaeval Bibles contain
illustrations of Bacchanal dances, and ones looking
perfectly "ancient" at that. The capital headings are
enwreathed in grapevines, with little angels climbing
them - spitting images of allegedly "extremely an-
cient" cupids. And so on, and so forth. We are refer-
ring to our personal acquaintance with certain ancient
Bibles that are kept in the Moscow Planetarium Li-
brary, for instance, or those from the Rare Book Mu-
seum of the National State Library in Moscow.

According to Champfleury, it was as early as the VII
century A.D., 700 years after the naissance of Chris-
tianity, that the Counsel of Chalon-sur-Saone forbids
women to sing obscene songs in churches ([lOMJ).
The date is given as VII century in the Scaligeri,m
chronology; accordi ng to our results, all of this occurs
in the XV-XVI century, which coincides with the time
of the formation of the Inquisition in the West.
Gregory of Tours protests against the monastic mas-
querades in Poitiers that occurred during the histor-
ically ecclesial"feasts of the mad;' "feasts of the inno-
cent" and "feasts of the ass:'

Champflcurywrites that: "it was as late as [the al-
leged date of - A. F.] 1212, that the Paris Council pro-
hibited the nuns to partake in the "frantic celebra-
tions" in the following form: 'The frantic celebrations
where the phallus is worshipped are to be condemned
everywhere, and we forbid partaking to monks and
nuns specifically'"
([ 1064], page 57, quoted in [544],
Volume 5, page 658). The ban didn't seem to help
much, since much later, in the alleged year 1245, the
reformist bishop Odon reponed, after having visited
the monasteries of Rouen, that the nuns there take
part in forbidden pleasures en masse
([ 10641, page 57.
Quoted in [544], Volume 5, page 658).

The "feasts of the innocent" greatly resembled the
Church "feasts of the mad" or festi follorum (possibly
renamed from festi phallorum). Apparently, the label
"innocent" referred to people unaware of the difference
between the allowed and the forbidden. Both feasts
may have been the same old Christian agapes and bac-
chanals named differently. According to Champlleury,
they existed in Besancon as late as the years 1284-1559
(in the Scaligerian chronology), until the reformed
church outlawed them in that area as well. King Charles
VII forbids these religious "feasts of the mad" again in
1430, in the Troyes Cathedral
([I 064 J, page 58, quoted
in (544), Volume 5). One sees how much labour it took
the Western European church to weed uut the deeply
rooted Bacchic-Christian cult of the XlII-XV century.


Champfleury writes the following:
"Many a time, studying the ancient cathedrals, and
trying to unravel the secret reason for their ribald or-
namentation, all of my own explanation seemed to me
as comments to a book written in a language that is
alien to me... What could one possibly make of the
bizarre sculpture that one sees in the shade of a col-
umn in an underground hall of the mediaeval cathe-
dral in Bourges?" ([ I064J, quoted in (544), Volume 5,
page 661, see fig. 7.19)

The sculpture in question is an effigy of human
buttocks protruding from the column in a very erotic
manner, done meticulously and with great expre-
sion.
How could the monks and the parishioners of
the times before the era when this sculpture became
a tourist attraction from the days of yore, have abided
it in the temple that they attended every day?
Another example is the stone sculpture allegedly
dated 1100 that is now a showpiece in the museum
of the Santiago de Composlelil Cathedral iu Spain

(see figs 7.24 and 7.25). We see a naked woman in a
very explicit position. The museum plaque tells us
that the sculpture had been inside this very cathedral
prior to being made an exhibit. Then, during its re-
construction, it was taken off its original mounting
and placed in the museum.


Attempts to explain away all of these mediaeval
sculptures and images (of which there are quite a few
left) as "caricatures" of the clergy carved in stone on
the walls of holy temples, very simply don't hold
water. Champfleury proceeds to ask us:

"Can one think of an imagination paradoxical
enough to determine the correlation of such an im-
probable jape with the holy place that houses the
carving? What authority did it take to let the sculp-
tor carve such details with impunity?.. On the walls
of several ancient Christian temples we find, with
great surprise, images of human genitalia compli-
antly displayed amidst the objects used for holy
liturgy. The lapicides demonstrate great innocence in
carving such pornographic sculptures, that resemble
an echo of the Classical symbolism... These... phal-
lic relics of the past that one finds in darkened halls
[ where the Bacchanals took place - A. F.] are especially
numerous in Gironde. Leo Drouyn, an archaeologist
from Bordeaux, showed me some highly peculiar
specimens of brazen sculptures put on display in the
ancient churches of his province that he conceals in
the depths of his files and folders."
( [1064], quoted in
[544], Volume 5, page 661)
N. A. Morozov was quite correct in pointing out
that excess shame deprives us of valuable scientific in-
formation. Scaligerian historians, in remaining taci-
turn about the Christian genital symbolism present
in a number of mediaeval temples, have slowed the
potential for comparison of artefacts of the "Classical
Age" with mediaeval ones. Serious, thoroughly illus-
trated books on the phallic cult would pour some
bright light on the matter and expose the Weltan-
schauung of the Christian-Bacchic cult devotees of
the Middle Ages.

Most probably, all of these drawings and sculptures
are the furthest thing from anti-ecclesial mockery,
and serve the same invitatory purpose as foamy beer
steins painted on the doors of German pubs. Natur-
ally, all of this made sense only prior to the large-
scale repressions of the new evangelical church and
the Inquisition of the XV-XVI century against the
old Western European Bacchic Christian cult.

"Classical" pornographic effigies (those from the
excavations of "ancient" Pompeii, for instance) are di-
rectly related to their Christian counterparts. Once
again, the misconceived "shamefulness" keeps the sci-
entific public from learning of those extremely inter-
esting source materials. V. Klassovsky tells us that:

"The pictures that depict explicitly erotic and ithy-
phallic scenes that the ancients liked so much are kept
under lock and key... In the house of the dissolute
women. .. someone had scraped off the obscene frescoes
with a knife at night. .. As of late, all of the Pompeian
paintings and sculptures that contradict the modern
concept of decency are kept in the secret department
of the Bourbon museum where no visitors are al-
lowed except for those possessing the special per-
mission of the high officials that they have to demon-
strate at the door. Obtaining such a permission by
legal means is far from easy:' ([389], pages 75-76)
However, in 1836 a catalogue was published that
contained engravings of some of the exhibits from
this secret department ([1278]); this catalogue is an
antiquarian rarity nowadays. Let us also mention that,
according to Humphrey Davy, "the Pompeian painters
and the Italian painters of the Renaissance epoch used
identical paints" (quoted in [389], page 70).

Houses have been found in Pompeii - one of which
is considered a hotel nowadays - that have stone phal-
luses in front of the entrance. The connexion between
the phallus and the Christian cult is not only present
in the Western European temples of the Middle Ages.
"In Hieropolis there were gigantic phalluses carved out
of granite, of 180 feet and higher; they used to be placed
at the temple gates" ( [389], page 122). V. Klassovsky was
of the naive opinion that these gigantic stone phal-
luses served "for the edification of the parish" [?] ([389],
page 122). Most probably, the carving had been a sign,
or a facia of sorts. Compare with a similar stone effigy
of the Indian Shiva Lingamurti; what one sees here is
the phallic symbol of Shiva-Rudra.

If the obscene mediaeval artwork is nothing but
signs whose primary purpose is to inveigle the pub-
lic to partake in the Christian entertainment as was
practised in Western European temples up until the
XVI century - and occasionally later yet - what could
the images of witches, demons, etc. that they incor-
porate possibly signify? The more recent ones) with
demons dragging sinners to hell) are) of course) meant
to intimidate. But what would be the meaning of
those where the devil is playing the guitar) and naked
women riding goats and asses are carried away by the
momentum of sensuality? What could be the import
of the stone apes dancing lewd roundels? Such are the
stone sculptures on the chapiters of the Magdeburg
Cathedral. Or) for instance) the bas-relief from the
portal dome of Notre Dame de Paris allegedly dating
from the XII century) that contains obscene imagery
of naked women copulating with asses) goats) and
each other - a tangle of human bodies and demons
entertaining male and female members of the parish
alike with their sexual callisthenics.

We should also remind the reader of the extremely
well-developed erotic cult in India. Some of the
Indian temples are covered with intricate erotic sculp-
tures from top to bottom. Also) what could the sculp-
ture from the portal of the Ploermel church possibly
mean) the one plainly visible to the public and de-
picting a young wife tweaking the nose of her hus-
band who is wearing a nightcap? See figs. 7.19) 7.21
and 7.22. A Dutch "caricature" of the mediaeval
Roman church can also be seen in fig. 7.23.
Champfleury) who cites all of these pictures and
sculptures) and a great deal of others to boot) does not
provide a clear answer to all these questions. However)
the meaning of the last sculpture) for instance) is crys-
tal clear. "Such a picture is far from being an inappro-
priate caricature; one would rather think it a sign quite
appropriate for the entrance to a legal disorderly house
for married women [located in a temple - A. F.]))
([544]) Volume 5) page 666).
In [544]) Volume 5) one encounters argumentation
in favour of the theory that the Western European
Christian temples of the XII-XVI century combined
certain distinctives consistent with the liturgy pre-
sented to us in late Christian literature) with those of
brothels from which it would have been hard to dis-
tinguish them in the Middle Ages. Thus) the initially
austere Christianity of the XI century gave birth to the
orgiastic and Bacchic Christian cult. After the sepa-
ration of the churches from the brothels (which didn)t
happen in some areas of India until the XIX century»)
the latter became semi-legal institutions resembling
their modern counterparts. All of the above men-
tioned imagery on the walls and over the entrances
to the XII-XV century temples could only have
seemed appropriate for as long as the temples served
as places of erotically-flavoured entertainment hon-
ouring the vivacious "ancient)) gods) and where the
Eucharist chalice also served an orgiastic purpose.
Far from the abodes of pious meditation that we
deem them to be nowadays.

One finds it appropriate to make the following re-
mark in this respect: according to the Scaligerian
chronology) nearly all the mediaeval Roman Christian
churches have allegedly been built "on the sites of an-
cient Pagan temples.)) These "ancient predecessors))
have for some reason shared the same purpose) and
even the same name as the "more recent)) Christian
temples ([ 196] ). The mediaeval church of St. Dionys-
ius) for instance) was allegedly built on the site of the
"ancient pagan temple of Dionysius;) etc. From our
point of view) the picture is perfectly clear. What we
see here is the same old effect of the Scaligerian chron-
ology. Having declared its own recent Bacchic past
"erroneous" for one or another objective reason, the
Western Christian Church in its new reformed phase
of the XV-XVI century had simply renamed all of its
recent Christian- Bacchic gods new Evangelical saints,
occasionally even keeping their names intact) since
the parishioners had been accustomed to them.
One might ask the obvious question about whether
we indeed are right) and the Bacchanals are merely a
form of the mediaeval Christian cult of the XII-XVI
century) the strict edicts outlawing this cult introduced
by the Inquisition in the XV-XVI century finding their
reflection in the "ancient" bans of the Bacchanals. Is
it really so? Are there any "ancient)) documents that for-
bid the "ancient" bacchanals? There are indeed) and
they occasionally match their mediaeval relatives of the
XV-XVI century word for word.

This is what the historians tell us about the "Clas-
sical Age": "The Graeco- Roman decadence that began
to infiltrate the lives of all the Roman estates.
.. in 186
[the alleged year 186 A.D. - A. F.) manifested in one
alarming symptom - secret Bacchus cults. .. these cults
have spread across all of Rome and Italy)) ([304])
Volume 1) page 362). Considering the Roman
chronological shift upwards by roughly 1053 years, we
get the Scaligerian date of 186 A.D. actually standing
for a date approximating 1239 A.D.) since 186 + 1053
=1239. It turns out that the wide propagation of the
Bacchic cult really falls on the XIII century A.D., which
concurs well with the information concerning the
pervasion of the mediaeval orgiastic cult of the XII-
XVI century. If this happens to really be a manifes-
tation of the two chronological shifts of 1383 years
(a sum of 1053 and 330), the "ancient" events as men-
tioncd above roughly fall on the middle of the XVI
century, which fits our reconstruction even better.

What did really happen later in "antiquity?"

"The authorities have commenced an energetic
investigation, and it turned out that the members of
this cult exceeded 7,000 people in their numbers.
Many have been seized and done away with quick and
severe executions.
. . A large number of the women that
took part in the criminal cult have been handed over
to their relations for the execution, and if none of
their kin could bring themselves to execute the death
sentence, they would be claimed by the henchman
.



A most valuable relic of the time is given to us by an
important governmental edict of the Senate in its orig-
inal edition. The Roman Senate forbade all manner of
manifestation
of the Bacchic cult on the territory of the
United Roman State under pain of death. .. the Senate's
edict forbidding Bacchanals explicitly had been carved
on a copper plaque and had been sent to all of the dis-
tricts in such a fashion in order to be put up in pub-
lic places for everybody's information. One of such
plates was unearthed in a rather secluded place, the
ancient Bruttian country."
( [3041, Vol. I, pp. 362-363)

We cite this "ancient" document in fig. 7.26. Ac-
cording to our reconstruction, this "ancient" decree
is one of the imperial Inquisitional prohibitions of
mediaeval Bacchanals issued in the XV-XVI century,
which hdd been found in 1640, right about the time
the Scaligerian chronology was nascent. It had im-
mediately been declared "ancient" and attributed to
the distant past.



_________________
" 'New World Order' ?...same as the Old World Order "

Church of Crac motto:
"The End is Nigh. Give me a Dollar."


--Cracrocrates


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