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When will "Dr Death" Kavorkian kill himself?
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Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 1556
Location: Belly of the Beast, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: When will "Dr Death" Kavorkian kill himself? Reply with quote

"Dr. Death" Kavorkian, the medical "assisted suicide" freelancer (read, serial killer) was paroled this week from a 10-20 murder rap (for only one of his voluntary victims) of his high profile career of the 1990's.

One of Kavorkian's macabre death obsession paintings: 'Very Still Life'



Karorkian is 79 years old, and--allegedly, according the attorney who sprung him---"in failing health".

Yet--at his press conference today the Death Dealer was in a great mood, said his release feels "wonderful", and said he's looking forward to getting things you can't get in prison, like apricots and 'sliced turkey' on thin lavash bread.

During his bizarre freelance career euthanizing 'volunteers' who wanted to die, Kavorkian killed--and killed again--all reported on television, doing press conferences, defying court orders that said "please, just don't kill any more people', until eventually a prosecuter and court decided to put their foot down and lock 'im up for a while.

Question is, at almost 80 and supposedly in 'failing health', why doesn't anyone ask the self proclaimed authority on the 'right to death' and killer of the elderly Kavorkian whether or not he plans to 'do the right thing'..
Kill himself.


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DrewTerry
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ormond - feels like there are some issues here for you?
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:32 pm    Post subject: Dr. Death Reply with quote

Ormond,
As far as I know, the people who Kevorkian helped kill/end their lives was people who DID volunteer. As far as I know, he gave them a device, showed them how it worked, and walked away and let them do as they wished. Outlawing his device is similar to gun control, which people can already use, albeit more messy and violent for relatives. (Plus famous people always have to shoot themselves twice.)

There's also stretched similarities to how Charles Manson is serving life in prison for 'brainwashing' other people to kill. You probably heard about how he was demonized so differently than Tex Watson, who associated with Young Republicans, a "good christian boy" who did the actual killing.

So much for digression. Nowadays, many doctors DO offer their terminal patients the respite of death, via a prescription or accidental overdose. They just do it quietly. Dr. K was trying to set a precedent, like the diff between smoking marijuana and smoking it legally, and it backfired.

OR -- maybe I'm WRONG. Cool
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Don Smith



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Albert Camus said that suicide is the murder we commit when we are too ethical to kill the one we want to see dead.
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Ormond



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Nazi Euthanasia Propaganda Poster

Quote:
CONFRONTING THE "GOOD DEATH": NAZI EUTHANASIA ON TRAIL, 1945-1953 narrows the focus to a campaign to eliminate the mentally ill which Hitler unleashed years before his famous final solution to annihilate European Jews. This campaign killed as many as 270,000 people and set a precedent for the mass murder of civilians, and Michael Bryant here analyzes the U.S. Government and West German judiciary's attempt to punish these killers after the war.


Why have people forgotten that the reason for not legalizing 'assisted' suicide has always been recognized that giving authority to euthanize to the State leads to the temptation of genocide of the "inconvenient".
Old, weak, ill, mentally unbalanced, depressed persons are no match for the pressure of relatives or authorities who are sometimes all too quick to persuade them that they are a 'burden', inconvenient. As for the State empowered with this stuff...well, be careful what you wish for.

Trust me.

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abcar



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a person really wants to die they will find a way.

Ormand wrote:
Old, weak, ill, mentally unbalanced, depressed persons are no match for the pressure of relatives or authorities who are sometimes all too quick to persuade them that they are a 'burden', inconvenient.

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urbanspaceman



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I guess you have the situation where someone is enduring great suffering for a long period of time and they don't have the physical means to end their own life quickly, so they need help from someone else. In that case the person helping will be considered a murderer, under our current law. So because the person helping would be at great risk of going to prison for 25 years, we often let the dying person suffer. So this isn't a clear cut issue at all. Yes there's a risk of abuse of real murderers hiding behind a euthanasia law, but at the same time we are more humane to a dying animal than to our fellow suffering human beings. From a moral standpoint, someone should not be punished for helping someone die, but putting this into law is difficult, and then into practice is extremely tricky.

Whether or not Kavorkian had ulterior motives beyond taking a moral stand on assisted suicide, I don't know.
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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This particular issue has hit home with me recently. My Mom passed away last May 23, and now my Dad is in a nursing home, awaiting his own demise, roughly 1 year later.

The issue is, my Dad has wanted to die for the past 8 years. He's not in any particular pain, he's just simply "tired of living." He was very active all his life, a very talented athlete, and he's just weary of what he's referred to as his nothing existence - and that was before Mom wasa gone and before he became totally bed-ridden, about 2 months ago, following surgery for a small tumor in his ear.

I don't want to see him go, but I also don't want to see him forced to lay around 24/7 doing nothing but sleeping and feeding from a tube in his abdomen. He's also lost his voice now, and it's almost impossible to communicate when I go see him.

We've been commenting the past 2 months that if Dad had Kevorkian's number, he'd have checked out a long time ago.

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Cracrocrates



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ormond said:giving authority to euthanize to the State leads to the temptation of genocide of the "inconvenient"

urbanspaceman said:So this isn't a clear cut issue at all. Yes there's a risk of abuse of real murderers hiding behind a euthanasia law, but at the same time we are more humane to a dying animal than to our fellow suffering human beings.



I agree this is not a clear cut issue because of a personal experience, but not anyone I knew or was responsible for. Dr. Death may believe in what he does, and he may do it with an almost religious fervor, but that doesn't make it right; Orwell said "A humanitarian is always a hypocrite."

Having said that, humankind in general, and the batardized medical "profession," behave like death is an option instead of an inevitability for us all. Those asshole HMOs view cancer & the terminally ill as their bread and butter via private insurance or Medicaid/Medicare. HMOs may even view Assisted Suicide favorably, since it absolves them of gross negligence. HMOS & the state win either way, which is why its on the "agenda."

My personal experience with death was part of a student group going to a publicly funded HIV/AIDS shelter for the poor in New Orleans several years ago. Interestingly, the shelter was full of mostly elderly or middle-aged white people in apparently good health, even though the so-called AIDS & city demographics should be mostly young minorities. Anyway, when a person is diagnosed as having less than 24-hours to live (starts getting shakes in blinding pain, for example) the religious volunteers make sure that someone holds the hand of the dying person to "comfort" them until death; this period was called Vigil.

I saw a woman about 8-hours from death. She was white with a shaved head, and from the photographs in the room, appeared to be only in her 30s. Without the photos no one would know her real age. I don't recall seeing any family members. She was in blinding pain, with shakes, writhing sometimes. No other emotions or sign of human thought except pain.I was naive at the time, but I did think that the Vigil was more to make the volunteers feel better, because to the patient, it was all Senseless.

I had no idea at the time that the Medical Industry killed that woman with drugs to profit from a disease that she didn't have, a disease that may not even exist. Researchers like berkely prof Peter Duesberg had written this for years, only to get ostracized and funding cut. Assholes.
www.jamesphogan.com/heretics/toc.php#aids
www.duesberg.com/viewpoints/aids-heresy-hogan.html

My guess now is that the smart ones didn't take their meds, just staying there for the free room & board.
...
Here's what Maylasian activist Bruno Manser said being interviewed by keith harmon snow about the 10-day aftermath of being bit by a red-tailed pit viper
www.allthingspass.com/uploads/html-37Bruno%20Manser%20Interview.htm

Quote:
khs: Is that a state of mind or of physical pain?

BM: Just pain. You cannot think. You cannot act you are just like a metal of pain. You like to die. I would kill myself if I know I would not survive. Of course, just when I got the snakebite I told somebody to go uprivers or downrivers two or three days for a doctor but two weeks later he arrived. And I asked for a doctor and instruments so I can make myself an operation but there were no instruments. And my leg got swollen and then it was pussing and then the muscle where it connects to the knee fell off so the whole muscle fell out of my leg like a banana. And so I cut the muscle off piece-by-piece and then I saw the rest of the muscle would rot inside my leg and I wanted to get the whole muscle out. And afterwards there was no more flesh here, just the bone, and I always had a bloody knee, just if someone touches it or running through a field from the grass. So this summer [1992] I had a transplant.

khs: Did the Penan treat you with local cures?

BM: Yes. But for two months I couldn't stand up.

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Ormond



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Cracrocrates:
"PATHOCRATIC PARTY slogan: The Enemy of My Enemy is My Enemy."


That's right! Here's another one, "what's mine is mine, and what's yours, is MINE".

Most are overlooking something, except Gary includes this important factor to consider here:
Quote:

many doctors DO offer their terminal patients the respite of death, via a prescription or accidental overdose. They just do it quietly.


My grandmother was an RN who was on the terminal ward (as a nurse) for ten years. She told me that euthanasia has always gone on routinely through how hospitals and nursing homes handle terminal patients. Even the discreet way it's handled now, she explained that it's open to abuse by families who want to spare expenses or hospitals who triage patients who can't afford expensive treatments which would prolong their lives--with 'quality of life' restored. The heavily insured and wealthy routinely survive many diseases that those who can't afford it do not.
Still, the discreet system works more realistically than openly turning it over to the State, which is what this issue is pushing for.

I equate it to Bush's quick removal of legal protections for death row inmates to get the maximum opportunities to prove their innocence. Statistically, about 7% of people convicted for capitol murder aren't guilty. Average time for many exonerations has been as long as 18 years.

Up to the 1930's, patients could be accelerated out by simply strapping the person down (this leads to fluid settling in the lungs, and pneumonia). This practice was replaced through sophisticated medication after WWII.
Terminal cancer patients are routinely prescribed a dosage of IV drip morphine that keeps them unconscious. This is justified due to the intense pain. But it means the only nourishment is IV sucrose, which rapidly weakens the body. The heavy sustained dosage of morphine numbs the autonomic nervous system, and death can occur in as little as six weeks with the patient being oblivious to pain and suffering during that time.

There are also plenty of ways death is facilitated in a hospital environment. Terminal ward nurses and Doctors are well aware of this, and it's basically a 'don't ask, don't tell' situation.

Reason? Because it's been demonstrated in the past that the direct authority of family, doctor, and ultimately the State to order death is wide open to human error and miscalculation and even misdiagnosis at best, and it can easily enable those with power of attorney to coerce or persuade the patient that they want to die.

People who've never been in the position of power of attorney over invalids may not be aware that when a person is in a coma, or considered terminal in ICU, the doctors will discreetly give you the opportunity to approve whether the treatment will facilitate rapid death or not. And generally keeping someone alive is by far the most expensive option.
What I'm saying is that this system has already been worked out all along.

Some of you have mentioned your personal experiences with this stuff. For me, I've known a number of people who didn't want to go on living over the years, and it's my understanding from how easily they got their wish that if someone really is tired of living, they don't live very long. I've also known an number of people who killed themselves in various ways. It's really not hard if anyone is serious about it.

I do believe in individual right to choose to die, but people do make that decision all the time and don't seem to have any trouble carrying it out. When a third party and LAW is given this authority, it will open the door to eugenics.

The issue of 'right to die' is a State sponsored agenda we have seen before. It's just nobody alive now was around to be appalled by the Nazi and Stalinist eugenics programs.

Keep in mind who's running the governments almost openly now. Globalists totalitarians who openly call themselves 'Communitarians', and read the Communitarian agenda for the 'need' for population control, and their profile of which human beings are 'commerically viable' and whom isn't.

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paradox



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope he won't go to soon. I was counting on him to monetize and synergize my prospective income by providing leverage across the insurance, medical and financial platforms by recombining value to whole-hearted personal economic, and point of sales benefits, with death-on-credit and radical body disposal technologies.
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Ormond



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
http://www.mlive.com/books/grpress/index.ssf?/base/features-0/117540879560320.xml&coll=6

Book's 'modest proposal' asks baby boomers to die
Sunday, April 01, 2007
By Curt Schleier
The Grand Rapids Press

Writing funny is difficult under the best of circumstances, but impossible in a universe of absurdity.

Consider the pop tart (I'm sorry, I mistyped. I meant pop star) who goes from rehab to rehab frequently without the benefit of undergarments? Or what about the top-heavy model who dies under mysterious circumstances shortly after her son dies under mysterious circumstances and then has a half-dozen men claiming part ownership (Oops. Another mistyping. I meant paternity) of her infant daughter?

What manner of human being has a mind so off-kilter that he (or she) could find something fresh to spoof, some irony in a world already so bizarre? That man is Christopher Buckley, author of "Boomsday" (Twelve, 31 pages, $24.99), a novel that offers a unique solution to the biggest problem facing the nation today: Baby Boomers will soon begin to collect Social Security, bankrupting the system. What to do?

Cassandra Devine, a 29-year-old PR woman and blogger (her eponymous blog is called Cassandra, get it?) has the solution. Why not encourage seniors to kill themselves? "Not suicide," she spins. "Voluntary transitioning." Why would people do it? "A package of incentives," including tax breaks for those who promise to off themselves at age 70 and even more perks if you do the deed at age 65 (including health benefits, drugs and an all-expense-paid farewell honeymoon).

Absurd? Hardly. She's done the math. If only 20 percent of the 77 million baby boomers make the transition, "Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid will be solvent." Sigh up and change your mind? There would be "substantial penalties for non-early withdrawal."

The time is somewhere in the near future, when the U.S. is engaged in six wars. "The military was stretched to such a point where it was safe for countries to invite the United States to invade them." Bolivia declares war on the U.S.

The slogan devised for a president seeking re-election: "He's doing his best, really."

The idea takes on a life of its own. Generation X, Y and Z have no desire to pay higher taxes to fund Social Security. It's no surprise then, that Sen. Randolph K. Jepperson, initially opposed to the idea, changes his mind and decides to run for the nation's top job on a voluntary transition platform. Jepperson, like all the politicians in Washington, is a man of principle -- whatever the principle is that particular day.

Certainly there's opposition. The Association of Baby Boomer Advocates (ABBA) is opposed to the measure -- though it's certainly open to negotiations. The Rev. Gideon Payne, a libidinous minister often described as a "white Al Sharpton, is also opposed. In fact, his pro-life organization, the Society for the Protection of Every Ribonucleic Molecule (SPERM) was agitating for a memorial on the D.C. Mall commemorating the 43 million unborn.

As is his wont (in "Thank You For Smoking" and his other books), Buckley throws out far more hits than misses. You don't need a slightly askew mindset to find this book funny, though it helps.

In the 18th Century, Jonathan Swift wrote "A Modest Proposal," an essay that suggested the Irish poverty problem might be solved if the Irish sold their children for food. Obviously, it got people talking.

In many ways, Buckley is our Swift. The thing I appreciated most about "Boomsday" is how it left me thinking. Sure, it's funny to laugh about Washington deal making and greed, but in the end it's somewhere between sad and frightening.

One of the characters in the book says: "Maybe the line dividing reality from absurdity in this country has finally disappeared." Too bad.

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Last edited by Ormond on Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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