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indigitydogdignation
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 313
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 Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | paradox: Without people's trust in the media, it becomes impossible to manipulate them. |
If it were that simple, the broader effort to expose the 9/11 fraud would have succeeded by now.
'Loosing' the tapes didn't hurt BBC's reputation in any areas where it wasn't already destroyed. |
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stallion4
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Fintan wrote: | | Quote: | | Stallion4: FYI, I personally witnessed the evolution of this story, and at this point I do not believe it is some sort of psy-op or whatever. To the best of my knowledge the BBC footage was discovered after hours of 9/11 coverage was uploaded on the website Archive.org. A 9/11 researcher (who I'm familiar with) from 911Blogger.com who goes by the moniker "911veritas" discovered the footage after downloading it from Archive.org...... |
You think we should be reassured by you being in at the genesis of this story.
I'm not.
And yeah, I'm sure the BBC-error tale has a well-laid "back-story".
I would expect no less from the agency.
So it's all just a coincidence that this angle emerges within days
of the BBC hit-piece on the 9/11 Truth movement, and provides
them more ammunition to portray us as grasping at straws by
trying to implicate a news reporter and the BBC in the collapse? |
BBC are looking like the fools on this one, Fintan. It's been almost a week since this story first broke, and so far it's been a positive thing. Digg's getting exposed. Google's getting exposed, BBC's getting exposed. "The agency" are fools if they staged this whole thing.
I understand that the circumstances are suspicious to some. But that's why I posted my affiliation with the story. That way the readers of this board, including you, Fintan, can have more to go on -- to conclude for certain whether or not you want to believe this was a staged event.
So far I'm not convinced it was.
If it was, 911veritas would have to be neck deep in it. My observations and interactions with him/her in the last month or so at 911blogger have all been good.
I believe he's explained his case well for how he discovered the footage.
If 911veritas is an agent, he/she's a very good one, or a very, very bad one depending on whose side he/she's fighting for.
I fail to see how this BBC story will be a negative thing for the legitimate 9/11 truth movement. Millions more will have now been woken up to Building 7 because of it, which will lead to them asking more questions about the official story.
There's strength in numbers, Fintan. Why would the "bad guys" want to encourage that?
_________________
"Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets." ~Travis Bickle |
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Hocus Locus
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| stallion4 wrote: | | I fail to see how this BBC story will be a negative thing for the legitimate 9/11 truth movement. Millions more will have now been woken up to Building 7 because of it, which will lead to them asking more questions about the official story. |
I follow. There is one aspect that sets this event apart from other 9/11 bogeys -- from the undecided point of view, both the video clip (correspondent eulogizing a visible building) and original event (7's fall) are non-toxic.
The fall of Seven itself non-toxic because there was no loss of life as I've said ad nauseum... but this bungle is so surreal -- yet, funny -- that this will do something positive for 9/11: get people talking about it without leaving their milk & cookies comfort zone. A foot in the door.
The bungle is non-toxic because it apparently involves human error, is plausibly deniable by BBC (and those depicted) as confusion on that day, is light-hearted and many people need something about 9/11 to consider that doesn't 'hurt' or embodies a 'truth' that is attempted to be handed to them.
In fact, it might even be the first-ever real comedic 9/11 moment ever discovered, with humor that does not stem from the gallows, slander, sarcasm or cynical angst. At someone's expense.
And in the telling and re-telling of it (hey did you hear about...) people will be led, in a moment of no belief pressure, to ponder and even engage in research on the other aspects of 9/11.
In this regard '911veritas' deserves high honors for uncovering this most valuable treasure. Worth a hundred squibs.
___
As you stand atop the precipice of the new century, as ambassadors to the future, as assurers of security, steadfastness and the common weal, as emporers to the air, the sea, the cosmos, it is your collective commitment, your mandate, your legacy, your entitlement, your human responsibility, your imperative -- do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, for as long as you can -- and love will steer the stars.
~Alien Voices: "Spock vs. Q: The Sequel", Nimoy's final message |
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foo
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: Before we go any further... |
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From answers.com:
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caveat emp·tor (ĕmp'tôr')
n.
The axiom or principle in commerce that the buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality of a purchase before buying.
[From Latin caveat ēmptor, let the buyer beware : caveat, third person sing. present subjunctive of cavēre, to beware + ēmptor, buyer.]
* * * * *
Or, in plain English, if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.
In all of the posts that I've read here and elsewhere on the Web, everyone is working from the assumption that the video is genuine.
Has anyone obtained a full resolution (640 X 576 -- PAL standard) copy of it? Has anyone done a frame-by-frame analysis of it?
Chroma keying (AKA blue-screening AKA green-screening) is never perfect. Anomalous video artifacts are produced.
In addition, there is the reference to 4:5X PM EST -- Eastern Standard Time. On September 11th, New York is on EDT -- Eastern Daylight Time.
Martin |
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telecasterisation
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Before we go any further... |
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| foo wrote: | From answers.com:
Has anyone obtained a full resolution (640 X 576 -- PAL standard) copy of it? Has anyone done a frame-by-frame analysis of it?
Chroma keying (AKA blue-screening AKA green-screening) is never perfect. Anomalous video artifacts are produced.
Martin |
Having endured the indignity of the past few days, do you not consider that the BBC would have proved and published this was a fake by now if it indeed is?
The possibility that this is a fake is well past its authentication date.
_________________
The only constant in The Universe is change. |
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zak247
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Kat wrote: | Speaking of David Icke. I have seen a few videos and blogged one on myspace. A lot of what he says is real. I don't know about the super-natural, bizzarro things he comes out with. Hell, truth has always been stranger than fiction. Perhaps he was on a H.S.Thompson-like psychadelic high when he had these visions of reptile people. (Always makes me think of the lizard people in fear and loathing in LV)
We have got to be willing to accept a lot of unbelievable things in order to see the evil for what it really is. Seriously...they killed all those people on 9/11. They shopped and sang songs during the Katrina tragedy. These are not humans we are dealing with...at least not any who show even a modicum of humanity. |
If you take away the Reptilian stuff Dave Icke is not that bad. In fact what I have pointed out to many religious people is that there is not much difference from their devil theories with horns and pitch forks than Icke and his Reptilians, which is certainly challenging to accept, but since we don’t really know everything going on in the universe whose to say there is not some Reptilian race doing this or that. |
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krammer
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think the fact that many sites are burying this clip lends some credibility to it. I submitted it to Fark.com (as well as many others I am sure) and still no sign of it being greenlighted. Fark appears to me as extremely infiltrated....try posting anything about 911 or global warming and you will be gang tackled and attacked by 5 or 6 regulars who very effectively manage the perception that anyone questioning 911 or global warming is a tinfoil hatwearing conspiricy nut.
Then again, it does seem a bit too stage managed and convenient as Fintan has pointed out. |
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Kat
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | At the risk of imposing, maybe you could highlight your experience with st911? |
When the 9/11 anomalies became mainstream (around the time Charlie Sheen made his comments on AJ) I started doing research. I found physics911.net and Jones' theories. I found out about the scholars and sent an email asking to join. I'm just a student at a community college, so didn't think it would be very easy, but it was. After gaining access to the private forum, I was excited that this was a group who might make a difference.
There was a guy in the forum taking a lot of heat. His name is David Hawkins who describes himself as a "forensic economist." A professional follower of the money. He claimed to be the one who invented the software that forensic economists use to do their job. iow, the PREMIERE FORENSIC ECONIMIST. His style of debate was off-putting, fantastic, humorous, visual. People were taken aback and barely noticed him, but I followed his posts and encouraged him. When he started accusing MIT and Noam Chomsky, the shit hit the fan.
Now, I've not delved very deeply into Chomsky as I consider myself more conservative than liberal, so it didn't upset me to hear about this revelation. The MIT connection made sense to me as I had already been leaning in that direction after learning about MIT's involvement in early analysis of the collapses. (came out like in dec. of 2001)
Oh my gosh...the people in there went crazy! They turned into just any run of the mill forum with the usual back-biting, insults, sarcasm and cliques you find in just about any small online communities. Accusations of cointelpro were flying. People were routinely banned and reprimanded if those in power didn't agree with their theories. People are really thin-skinned and text without benefit of body language and such is difficult to interpret.
David Hawkins was banned and then continued his research on a yahoo read-only forum that nobody could respond to. I don't blame him for going this route and his work seems important, even if he does have ties to big oil, which he does.
After that, things went downhill pretty quickly. Everybody became suspect. There was never huge participation and out of the 300 some who were members at the time only a handful ever posted.
If anybody wants to check it out, message me and I'll give the url and my sign in information. Nobody posts there anymore although it is still there and some of the archives have survived. I just don't care anymore.
Now as to this BBC thing, the conspiracy can't be perfect, no matter how much they think they got it over on us. Why do you think that they are trying to limit internet access and communication? All the secrets of the world are being posted and people are waking to the possibility that what we believe to be truth has been turned on its head. They are slipping up because of their arrogance. We outnumber them by some statistics that puts the satanic cult activity as low as 1% of the population to as high as 20%.
There's just too many of us. Pandora's box has been opened and we've got a ways to go before we get to "hope." |
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Fintan
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 6100
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: Beautiful |
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| Quote: | zak247: I told you guys that the takedown of building 7 is a sabotage of the 911 plot.
As I said before there is no plausible reason within or without the plot for building 7 to have gone down other than that it was a prearranged plan done by some internal conspirators probably in the CIA who want to sabotage the 911 plot. I HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! |
So there are good guys in the CIA who are on our side eh?
And they knew about the 9/11 plot and tried to sabotage it.
Sure. And if you leave a tooth under your pillow the tooth fairy will come.
I dealt with this about eighteen months ago.
| Quote: | Our Good Friends in the CIA - NOT !
Friday, August 26, 2005
This is the heavily, slickly-promoted notion that within the CIA (and FBI) are loyal, patriotic Americans (Edmonds, Scheuer, McGovern, et al) outraged by the Neocon coup. They are fighting the Neocons. They are on our side.
Rubbish. This whole thing is a CIA deception.
Here's news, if you didn't know: intelligence agencies don't just manipulate external events, they manipulate the image of themselves that is presented in mainstream and alternative media.
These deceptions also enable them to place operatives who present with a cover of being "outcasts" from the system.
The alternative media is ridden with ex-FBI, ex-CIA, ex-NSA, ex-MI5 people who are on "our side". It's all total BS........
It's a comfort-blanket fairytale. A 9/11 deception.
We have no good friends in the CIA.
Not now. Not ever. Never.
http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/08/our-good-friends-in-cia-not.html |
But maybe you don't mean the pretend CIA resistors.
Maybe you mean some deeper guys behind the fake resistors.
Maybe that old Faction 1 and Faction 2 bulllshit peddled by Rayellan Allen on Rumor Mill News?
| Quote: | | Stallion4: BBC are looking like the fools on this one, Fintan. It's been almost a week since this story first broke, and so far it's been a positive thing. Digg's getting exposed. Google's getting exposed, BBC's getting exposed. "The agency" are fools if they staged this whole thing. |
Where exactly are the BBC looking like fools? Here? On other 9/11 sites?
Big deal. Who cares.
The target of this Op is middle ground wavering opinion.
There, the BBC are looking good as they snigger at 'conspiracy theorists'
trying to build a case for the WTC7 collapse on the fact that a reporter
goofed. Especially as the word on the streeet was imminent collapse
anyway. Which is the point this 'goof-up' will only reinforce.
If 9/11 campaigners keep seeing the world thru the lens of their own
paradigm then we are f**ked. We need more political smarts than that.
| Quote: | paradox: How and who is supposed to profit from looking like incompetent or censoring news media? .....They still look like idiots for
losing the tapes / censoring the vids. |
Which they love. They just love looking incompetent. Suits 'em fine.
It's a tiny price to pay. 'Cos then they can turn around and say that we
are imagining 'conspiracy' where only incompetence exists.
And have a good laugh at the wild 'conspiracy nuts' again.
Beautiful. Or don't you get that??
And while all this goes on... the public are diverted from the TWIN TOWERS!!!
Beautiful. Or don't you get that?? |
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foo
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: The naked emperor? |
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telecasterisation wrote:
* * * * *
The possibility that this is a fake is well past its authentication date.
* * * * *
I asked a straight-forward question, and I was hoping for a straight-forward answer, not a patronizing, dismissive one.
Speculation (and that's what it is) of the motives and the actions of the BBC does not answer my question.
Again, has anyone obtained a full-resolution copy of the video and performed forensic video analysis of it?
Does anyone have access to such a copy? I'd like to examine it for myself.
This is not the first "HUGE SMOKING GUN" that we've encountered over the past five and a half years.
Let's be sure that the emperor is actually wearing clothes before we start commenting on the fabric.
Martin |
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zak247
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Beautiful |
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| Fintan wrote: | | Quote: | zak247: I told you guys that the takedown of building 7 is a sabotage of the 911 plot.
As I said before there is no plausible reason within or without the plot for building 7 to have gone down other than that it was a prearranged plan done by some internal conspirators probably in the CIA who want to sabotage the 911 plot. I HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! |
So there are good guys in the CIA who are on our side eh?
And they knew about the 9/11 plot and tried to sabotage it.
Fintan wrote: Sure. And if you leave a tooth under your pillow the tooth fairy will come.I dealt with this about eighteen months ago.
|
That’s not wishful thinking its in line with the fact that groups always have differences and chasms, even the elite. What makes them any different? Are they divine or something. If they were, well then even god had a difference with the devil, right. Also I never said the people in the CIA who didn’t like 911 and sabotaged it were necessarily on our side.
They probably are on their own side.
Look at the signs, there are examples all over the place that there are chasms in the elite structure.
Brezinski who represents more or less the Rockefeller clique.
The traditional conservative represented by guys like Paul Craig Roberts, Pat Buckhannon, and many others. For example the Generals who are many coming out against the Iran attack.
Now I know all you’re going to say is its all press spy-op. That may be, but you don’t know that for sure, nor can you prove it.
Fintan these people are not omnipotent if they were we would all be dead, or soon would be.
You’re theory Fintan seems to be it’s all the elite against us, absolutely with no shades of gray in between. If you believe that then what’s the use.
If you study history closely Fintan you will see that the struggle of good and evil has always been within the elite, not the lower guys like us. That’s sounds elitist but unfortunately it’s the truth.
Look at the fact that ALL THE GREAT RELIGIOUS FIGURES IN HISTORY WERE ALL WEALTHY, RICH as well as the big philosopher’s writers, politicians were ALL a part of the so called elite, or had deep connections to it.
That’s were the real struggle is Fintan not down here with us carpers, and dreamers, who really don’t have any influence. And we don’t have influence because we are not organized for it.
If you yourself with all of your information don’t have an “in” to the elite structure with real info then you are a fraud, or dreamer yourself, but I know OTHERWISE, THAT YOU DO HAVE SOME LEG UP TO THE ELITE IN SOME FORM OR YOU WOULDN’T SAY A GODDAM WORD ABOUT ANYTHING.
No one with any sense Fintan can do ANYTHING in this world without a connection to some REAL power source. I KNOW THAT TO BE THE TRUTH. Not only intuitively but I knew a guy who told me this is the case. If you don’t have that connection you will not last long, or just flounder to nothing. That’s how the world works, that’s how it even works in jail.
Go to prison and try to do something yourself without checking with the guys that run it, and see how long you last?
Same thing out here in the real world. If you want any real power or influence you have to go where it is, not where it isn’t.
Sorry for the lecture but you needed it!
Last edited by zak247 on Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kat
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I seriously think those "in the know" are tired of being used and conscience is beginning to take hold with many of them. What we're witnessing is a dam about to burst. |
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Hocus Locus
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| zak247 wrote: | That’s not wishful thinking its in line with the fact that groups always have differences and chasms, even the elite. What makes them any different? Are they divine or something. If they were, well then even god had a difference with the devil, right. Also I never said the people in the CIA who didn’t like 911 and sabotaged it were necessarily on our side.
They probably are on their own side. |
| Kat wrote: | | I seriously think those "in the know" are tired of being used and conscience is beginning to take hold with many of them. What we're witnessing is a dam about to burst. |
Even the CIA, MI[0-9] etc. are subcultures, more so than is usual. Within them are people-societies, like marooned islands cut off from the rest of the world by necessity of their secrecy and propriety. I imagine a CIA analyst, say, reading something we've said here in this forum -- someone who is bursting with something to say, professionally or personally.
They cannot say it, they will not. For them, even in the scope of their chosen interest, the Internet is read-only.
Take a moment to consider the frustration of such a plight. It even represents a denial of personal freedom in a way. I would not wish that upon anyone. I even reserve sympathy for those who made that choice in full awareness -- and yet, circumstances behind the iron curtain have turned out to be, a little different than their youthful enthusiasm anticipated.
Dissent is natural, inevitable, necessary. If it wasn't then the first bad idea to come along would ruin civilization. Knowledge gained through proprietary analysis and covert surveilance is power. If there were not power struggles within these organizations, on every level, then they themselves are cut-outs, shams.
Which is why sentiments such as zak247 and Kat pose are worthy, whether they flow with the currency of to-day and have solid evidence to back them up, or not. Because they represent possibilities for the future that are not pre-scripted.
I believe these people do listen. And that there can exist 'militias' in intelligence organizations, just as they can exist in the general population. Make no mistake, with the rich keyword and on-point on-issue stew that we stir up here, they're watching and listening.
___
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. |
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zak247
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Put very well, Kat |
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zak247
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| put very well, Hocus, also |
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